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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 8, 2019 23:23:16 GMT
Synthesis: Catalyst tells people. Control: Shepalyst tells people. Really? Since the thing is still around when the green is chosen, does that mean it has the organics under it's influence? If not, how would anyone believe what it says without Shepard there to defend him/herself? What would the thing say that would get me to believe that Shepard chose the green? In the blue, how do I know Shepard wasn't indoctrinated before choosing the blue? Would the thing part 2, the former human called Shepard, tell everyone the part where it, or rather he/she, told TIM 'cause we're not ready' all of sudden decided we are ready? I doubt any of the characters that surrounded Shepard throughout the trilogy would believe Shepard choose the blue or green. Well, to paraphrase the Catalyst: "Their belief is not required." I wouldn't be surprised if people at first doubted, but eventually reality would speak for itself as in those endings the Reapers have stopped attacking and instead have started helping right after the Crucible fired. For most people, those doubts would fade as a result.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 8, 2019 23:24:11 GMT
That means a sequel can happen after the events of ME3 if Bioware chooses. cool. Shepard returns in ME4. That will be the one more story the guy tells the kid.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 8, 2019 23:32:31 GMT
Really? Since the thing is still around when the green is chosen, does that mean it has the organics under it's influence? If not, how would anyone believe what it says without Shepard there to defend him/herself? What would the thing say that would get me to believe that Shepard chose the green? In the blue, how do I know Shepard wasn't indoctrinated before choosing the blue? Would the thing part 2, the former human called Shepard, tell everyone the part where it, or rather he/she, told TIM 'cause we're not ready' all of sudden decided we are ready? I doubt any of the characters that surrounded Shepard throughout the trilogy would believe Shepard choose the blue or green. Well, to paraphrase the Catalyst: "Their belief is not required." I wouldn't be surprised if people at first doubted, but eventually reality would speak for itself as in those endings the Reapers have stopped attacking and instead have started helping right after the Crucible fired. For most people, those doubts would fade as a result. Doesn't the thing say your and not their? Either way, it sounds like it controls or at least influences organics to get them to believe anything.
Even with the reapers not attacking anymore, how to I know it's not a ploy to get the organics in a state of normalcy to attack them later. No one knows what happened in previous cycles except that the previous ciivlizations were harvested.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 8, 2019 23:36:45 GMT
Well, to paraphrase the Catalyst: "Their belief is not required." I wouldn't be surprised if people at first doubted, but eventually reality would speak for itself as in those endings the Reapers have stopped attacking and instead have started helping right after the Crucible fired. For most people, those doubts would fade as a result. Doesn't the thing say your and not their? Either way, it sounds like it controls or at least influences organics to get them to believe anything.
Even with the reapers not attacking anymore, how to I know it's not a ploy to get the organics in a state of normalcy to attack them later. No one knows what happened in previous cycles except that the previous ciivlizations were harvested.
Also, it said that the Green was tried before and it failed. Who's to say it won't fail again? (that is, IF Starkid isn't controlling their minds).
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 8, 2019 23:38:41 GMT
Well, to paraphrase the Catalyst: "Their belief is not required." I wouldn't be surprised if people at first doubted, but eventually reality would speak for itself as in those endings the Reapers have stopped attacking and instead have started helping right after the Crucible fired. For most people, those doubts would fade as a result. Doesn't the thing say your and not their? Either way, it sounds like it controls or at least influences organics to get them to believe anything.
Even with the reapers not attacking anymore, how to I know it's not a ploy to get the organics in a state of normalcy to attack them later. No one knows what happened in previous cycles except that the previous ciivlizations were harvested.
Hence me saying "to paraphrase the Catalyst" in my post. And syre I guess you could say it was influencing organics, the same way a lawyer influences a jury by presenting facts. Why would the Reapers do that? They were on the verge of fulfilling their harvest of this cycle, needing only to finish destroying the last attack we could muster. But then instead of doing that, the moment they are hit by the Crucible wave they stop their very reason for being and instead start doing the exact opposite. Sure some people might think what you are saying, but eventually most people would come to the rational conclusion that there is a connection and that this was genuine.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 8, 2019 23:46:12 GMT
Why would the Reapers do that? Why didn't they go to the Citadel first after entering the galaxy? Why didn't the destroyer fire at the SR2 instead of the two shuttles in Vancouver? Why didn't the destroyer on Tuchanka fire it's beam of doom horizontally instead of vertically at Shepard? The same for the destroyer on Rannoch? Why didn't Harbinger fire at the SR2 during the what-the-crap evac scene? Why didn't the reapers destroy the crucible as it was being brought to the Citadel? Why didn't the reapers shutoff the beam leading up to the Citadel?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 8, 2019 23:52:46 GMT
Why would the Reapers do that? Why didn't they go to the Citadel first after entering the galaxy? Why didn't the destroyer fire at the SR2 instead of the two shuttles in Vancouver? Why didn't the destroyer on Tuchanka fire it's beam of doom horizontally instead of vertically at Shepard? The same for the destroyer on Rannoch? Why didn't Harbinger fire at the SR2 during the what-the-crap evac scene? Why didn't the reapers destroy the crucible as it was being brought to the Citadel? Why didn't the reapers shutoff the beam leading up to the Citadel? Because if they did it wouldn't be much of a video game. Now how about you actually answer my question?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 8, 2019 23:58:12 GMT
Why didn't they go to the Citadel first after entering the galaxy? Why didn't the destroyer fire at the SR2 instead of the two shuttles in Vancouver? Why didn't the destroyer on Tuchanka fire it's beam of doom horizontally instead of vertically at Shepard? The same for the destroyer on Rannoch? Why didn't Harbinger fire at the SR2 during the what-the-crap evac scene? Why didn't the reapers destroy the crucible as it was being brought to the Citadel? Why didn't the reapers shutoff the beam leading up to the Citadel? Because if they did it wouldn't be much of a video game. Now how about you actually answer my question? Because the MET has more plot holes in it than a lump of Swiss Cheese. Does that answer your question?
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Post by themikefest on Sept 8, 2019 23:58:24 GMT
Because if they did it wouldn't be much of a video game. And? Because it's something we cannot comprehend.
Now, how about you actually answering the questions I asked you?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 23:58:41 GMT
That means a sequel can happen after the events of ME3 if Bioware chooses. cool. Shepard returns in ME4. That will be the one more story the guy tells the kid. As I said, you're forcing it to prove something that is not proven. Trying to force them into a singular choice when they have many, many options. Bioware can do a sequel however they want to do one, retcon whatever they place, or not do a sequel at all; and I've said that before many times as well. If they go your route, I'm simply not interested in buying the game.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 9, 2019 0:03:22 GMT
Because if they did it wouldn't be much of a video game. And? Because it's something we cannot comprehend.
Now, how about you actually answering the questions I asked you? I did answer your questions. I agree those things are stupid why they didn't, but I understand that they had to have the Idiot Ball in order for the games to work as such. Okay, so you have no actual answer why the Reapers would do what you are saying. Figured as much. In the end it doesn't matter, because the game proves me right and you wrong on this.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 9, 2019 0:12:51 GMT
I did answer your questions. Are you sure? I asked what would you say to convince me that Shepard chose the green? But the answer I gave is right. No one knows why they do the things they do. They are supposedly the masters of deception. They indoctrinate to divide and conquer to make the harvest easier.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 9, 2019 0:16:43 GMT
I did answer your questions. Are you sure? I asked what would you say to convince me that Shepard chose the green? But the answer I gave is right. No one knows why they do the things they do. They are supposedly the masters of deception. They indoctrinate to divide and conquer to make the harvest easier. So that begs the question: why trust something that's main strategy is deception?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 0:58:22 GMT
Reapers need the whole body unfortunately. Shepard as a whole is ascended to a higher level of existence and the pinnacle of evolution. Not just his arm or leg, but entire body. It's a load of bollocks. Human reaper bollocks style. It's based on previous stuff discussed in game.
Harbinger: Your species will be razed to a new existence.
Raze being a synonym for vaporize. That's what you can gather from the control and synthesis ending. Shepard is vaporized, but not before his DNA is used in the reproduction process. To give everyone Reaper DNA.
Harbinger: We are your genetic destiny.
Catalyst: ...will be reborn in the form of a new Reaper.
^ Everyone becomes part Reaper. Like Harbinger foretold.
Control has Shepard become a Reaper. Should a Reaper subvert a political or military leader (like Shepard), the resulting chaos will bring down nations.
People just don't like that Shepard has to die in order to make this happen.
However, Harbinger did say, that the Reapers are your salvation through destruction. People are destroyed, and then reborn in the form of a new Reaper under synthesis.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Sept 9, 2019 1:27:54 GMT
It's a load of bollocks. Human reaper bollocks style. It's based on previous stuff discussed in game.
Harbinger: Your species will be razed to a new existence.
Raze being a synonym for vaporize. That's what you can gather from the control and synthesis ending. Shepard is vaporized, but not before his DNA is used in the reproduction process. To give everyone Reaper DNA.
Harbinger: We are your genetic destiny.
Catalyst: ...will be reborn in the form of a new Reaper.
^ Everyone becomes part Reaper. Like Harbinger foretold.
Control has Shepard become a Reaper. Should a Reaper subvert a political or military leader (like Shepard), the resulting chaos will bring down nations.
People just don't like that Shepard has to die in order to make this happen.
However, Harbinger did say, that the Reapers are your salvation through destruction. People are destroyed, and then reborn in the form of a new Reaper under synthesis.
I can't believe people are counting harbingers trash talk as "proof" Up to that point the organics that were turned into reapers had just been liquified to become a reaper (not sure how that works). Also I think that the original ending that had been planned was different so it would be impossible to have them do something back then to contribute to an ending they hadn't thought of yet.
I think people are just looking into little things too much.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 1:39:36 GMT
The original ending? Nothing was changed. It was as they intended it to be.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Sept 9, 2019 1:46:55 GMT
The original ending? Nothing was changed. It was as they intended it to be. Wasn't their something about dark matter.
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Post by Phantom on Sept 9, 2019 1:53:26 GMT
The original ending? Nothing was changed. It was as they intended it to be. Wasn't their something about dark matter. Keep in mind that ME2 and ME1 has plotlines that had potential to go somewhere including Dark matter. So it is a dropped storyline idea from ME2 that BIoware didn't want to finish. Keep in mind that Reaper Killer Super weapon was another idea.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 1:54:02 GMT
The original ending? Nothing was changed. It was as they intended it to be. Wasn't their something about dark matter. Nope.
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Post by Phantom on Sept 9, 2019 2:00:20 GMT
It's a load of bollocks. Human reaper bollocks style. It's based on previous stuff discussed in game.
Harbinger: Your species will be razed to a new existence.
Raze being a synonym for vaporize. That's what you can gather from the control and synthesis ending. Shepard is vaporized, but not before his DNA is used in the reproduction process. To give everyone Reaper DNA.
Harbinger: We are your genetic destiny.
Catalyst: ...will be reborn in the form of a new Reaper.
^ Everyone becomes part Reaper. Like Harbinger foretold.
Control has Shepard become a Reaper. Should a Reaper subvert a political or military leader (like Shepard), the resulting chaos will bring down nations.
People just don't like that Shepard has to die in order to make this happen.
However, Harbinger did say, that the Reapers are your salvation through destruction. People are destroyed, and then reborn in the form of a new Reaper under synthesis.
Or they don't have to be Shepard, T.I.M or other high ranking leader to be a target for indoctrination. Having Key members sabotaging thru various means thru disinformation to planting bombs in key locations. Like having a Reaper Sleeper Agent planting a bomb at a System Alliance Shipyard. Or giving bad intelligence to a Fleet to lure them into a Reaper Ambush. Or giving Assassination orders to kill popular leaders to demoralize that faction.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 2:25:46 GMT
The Reapers always talked about Shepard submitting to them, joining their cause. If you accept the Reaper's solutions at the end, you join their cause.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 9, 2019 7:31:25 GMT
It's a load of bollocks. Human reaper bollocks style. It's based on previous stuff discussed in game.
Harbinger: Your species will be razed to a new existence.
Raze being a synonym for vaporize. That's what you can gather from the control and synthesis ending. Shepard is vaporized, but not before his DNA is used in the reproduction process. To give everyone Reaper DNA.
Harbinger: We are your genetic destiny.
Catalyst: ...will be reborn in the form of a new Reaper.
^ Everyone becomes part Reaper. Like Harbinger foretold.
Control has Shepard become a Reaper. Should a Reaper subvert a political or military leader (like Shepard), the resulting chaos will bring down nations.
People just don't like that Shepard has to die in order to make this happen.
However, Harbinger did say, that the Reapers are your salvation through destruction. People are destroyed, and then reborn in the form of a new Reaper under synthesis.
You're wrong there - I actually prefer a bullshit-free death for Shepard. A worthy one. I rather think Destroy is a popular ending because it's less silly than blue and much less silly than green. That one is full it.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 9, 2019 12:24:29 GMT
I really don't care what direction BioWare decides to go, except for trying to appease people instead of making a good story. Andromeda to me was BioWare trying to appease people by focusing on what they consider the best aspects of Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 and stumbling on the overall product because they were focused more the three elements instead of the final product. How are you going to move products if you don't appease your customers? Like trying to sell yogurt that causes butt hole inflammation. As good as your yogurt is, nobody wants butt hole inflammation. I mean, okay, chances are some people will, but those people aren't enough to sustain your yogurt business. The problem is, even if you change your product, how many people will return to taste your next yogurt? What if the new yogurt, instead of butt hole inflammation, causes urine infection? You probably didn't develop your next yogurt with that in mind, but maybe it will? And how can you sell it to people with assurances that it won't cause anything this time? Or what if they found a different yogurt that they are satisfied with, in the meantime? Now I know what you're going to say; "food analogy". Fine, change yogurt for a weed whacker that kills your grass, after trimming it or causes parasite infestations. I don't care. It's all interchangeable and it's not the point. The point is customer satisfaction and trust between the customer and the company and now both of these are at an all time low for Bioware. In my business, when our image is hurt in a similar way, I have to, figuratively, perform oral favours to restore our image and relationship. This is standard practice for all companies across the board. EA and their studios stubbornly refuse to do anything of the sort, receive backlash and then hope through whatever other means to fix their image. Currently, DICE is hurting with Battlefield V development crumbling in a way similar to Anthem's, though far later in their roadmap than Anthem did. Battlefield V is currently in a steady decline, as evident by the game's subreddit and various media outlets reporting on it. And this is on top of Battlefront 2's debacle. Bioware faced similar uproar back when ME3 was released and has fallen to worse times in recent years. Do you think people will be lining up for the next Bioware title, after all this, without figuratively performing oral favours to the fanbase? And how do you do that? By giving them the same thing that failed them last time? No, they're going to think "urine infection". You'll need to give them something that has pull, you need a hook. The only hook they have is Shepard. They can choose not to do that, but they will not benefit from it.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 9, 2019 12:26:53 GMT
It's based on previous stuff discussed in game.
Harbinger: Your species will be razed to a new existence.
Raze being a synonym for vaporize. That's what you can gather from the control and synthesis ending. Shepard is vaporized, but not before his DNA is used in the reproduction process. To give everyone Reaper DNA.
Harbinger: We are your genetic destiny.
Catalyst: ...will be reborn in the form of a new Reaper.
^ Everyone becomes part Reaper. Like Harbinger foretold.
Control has Shepard become a Reaper. Should a Reaper subvert a political or military leader (like Shepard), the resulting chaos will bring down nations.
People just don't like that Shepard has to die in order to make this happen.
However, Harbinger did say, that the Reapers are your salvation through destruction. People are destroyed, and then reborn in the form of a new Reaper under synthesis.
You're wrong there - I actually prefer a bullshit-free death for Shepard. A worthy one. I rather think Destroy is a popular ending because it's less silly than blue and much less silly than green. That one is full it. 👆This, right here.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 9, 2019 14:25:13 GMT
The Reapers always talked about Shepard submitting to them, joining their cause. If you accept the Reaper's solutions at the end, you join their cause. Really? If a Control Shep simply goes all Padok Wiks and lets evolution take its course -- if synthetics win, they win -- it's hard to see how that's joining the Reapers' cause in any rational sense. Synthesis, sure. In the same sense that the Allies adopted one of Hitler's major prewar goals at Potsdam; it's not exactly a Reaper win, but even if it is, so what? (Edit: hey, does that count as Godwinning the thread?)
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