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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 12, 2019 16:10:20 GMT
In most RPGs, exploring never-inhabited wilderness isn't what the characters are supposed to be doing, and they don't do it. (If it's a wilderness now, you're after the ruins or whatnot.) This is only a thing for space games, and not even all that many of them. I think Piranha Bytes does a pretty good job with uninhabited, virgin wildernesses. They're the most fun part of their games. Do their games also have an overarching plot with a sense of urgency entailed? On more than one occasion. Am I still going to waste four hours of my time trying in unorthodox ways to climb a tree, whose branch can help me reach a ledge to climb onto that will otherwise be inaccessible, just to see if I can find 5 gold pieces and a health potion, but will most likely have nothing for me and it's just my autism obsessing over it? You can bet my sweet ass I will. And that's the beauty of that game. For me, at least. Concerning ME1, this is one of those personal taste things. I've given up on the UNCs altogether. They're not very interesting and make no RP sense, and since I'm in the genre to RP, I'd probably blow them off even if they were better. There's no way I'm not doing the UNCs. I've been on a ME1 playthrough for a while now, fucking work taking up all my free time and I can assure you, there's no way I am leaving anything off the table. Remember in Zhou's Hope? There's this part that spawns a random civilian climbing up some stairs, hunted by Geth. You CAN save her, if you're quick enough. I've spent way too long trying to see if its doable. And it is. So don't underestimate my autism. Also, my Sole Survivor Shepard accepts no loses. Just because he's on a hunt to save Saren, doesn't mean he's going to leave others to die, because he's too busy. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 16:35:33 GMT
In most RPGs, exploring never-inhabited wilderness isn't what the characters are supposed to be doing, and they don't do it. (If it's a wilderness now, you're after the ruins or whatnot.) This is only a thing for space games, and not even all that many of them. I think Piranha Bytes does a pretty good job with uninhabited, virgin wildernesses. They're the most fun part of their games. Do their games also have an overarching plot with a sense of urgency entailed? On more than one occasion. Am I still going to waste four hours of my time trying in unorthodox ways to climb a tree, whose branch can help me reach a ledge to climb onto that will otherwise be inaccessible, just to see if I can find 5 gold pieces and a health potion, but will most likely have nothing for me and it's just my autism obsessing over it? You can bet my sweet ass I will. And that's the beauty of that game. For me, at least. Concerning ME1, this is one of those personal taste things. I've given up on the UNCs altogether. They're not very interesting and make no RP sense, and since I'm in the genre to RP, I'd probably blow them off even if they were better. There's no way I'm not doing the UNCs. I've been on a ME1 playthrough for a while now, fucking work taking up all my free time and I can assure you, there's no way I am leaving anything off the table. Remember in Zhou's Hope? There's this part that spawns a random civilian climbing up some stairs, hunted by Geth. You CAN save her, if you're quick enough. I've spent way too long trying to see if its doable. And it is. So don't underestimate my autism. Also, my Sole Survivor Shepard accepts no loses. Just because he's on a hunt to save Saren, doesn't mean he's going to leave others to die, because he's too busy. I''m not convinced that incurring no losses jives with doing all the UNC Missions. There is certainly one UNC Mission where the only way to incur no losses is to not do the mission at all... UNC: Lost Freighter. If you trigger the last log recording, you wind up having to kill the biotic girlfriend who, at that point, is the only one left aboard the ship keeping her boyfriend alive on life support and is of no further danger to anyone as long as they stay clear of the ship. Depending on your choice after killing her, you either shut down the life support or you let him drift endlessly alone in space. If you don't trigger that recording, you can just walk off the ship and leave her to tend to her boyfriend indefinitely, but the mission stays incomplete in your journal.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 12, 2019 16:40:31 GMT
I''m not convinced that incurring no losses jives with doing all the UNC Missions. There is certainly one UNC Mission where the only way to incur no losses is to not do the mission at all... UNC: Lost Freighter. If you trigger the last log recording, you wind up having to kill the biotic girlfriend who, at that point, is the only one left aboard the ship keeping her boyfriend alive on life support and is of no further danger to anyone as long as they stay clear of the ship. Depending on your choice after killing her, you either shut down the life support or you let him drift endlessly alone in space. If you don't trigger that recording, you can just walk off the ship and leave her to tend to her boyfriend indefinitely, but the mission stays incomplete in your journal. But she is still a dangerous individual that will, at some point, have to disembark from her ship and who knows what she'll do to the people on whatever station she finds herself on. She is guilty of murder and is likely emotionally unstable enough to repeat it multiple times. While I find it regrettable, as she is a person clearly in need of help, she does leave us no alternative, if we hope to not have other people share the same fate as the rest of her crew. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 17:05:14 GMT
I''m not convinced that incurring no losses jives with doing all the UNC Missions. There is certainly one UNC Mission where the only way to incur no losses is to not do the mission at all... UNC: Lost Freighter. If you trigger the last log recording, you wind up having to kill the biotic girlfriend who, at that point, is the only one left aboard the ship keeping her boyfriend alive on life support and is of no further danger to anyone as long as they stay clear of the ship. Depending on your choice after killing her, you either shut down the life support or you let him drift endlessly alone in space. If you don't trigger that recording, you can just walk off the ship and leave her to tend to her boyfriend indefinitely, but the mission stays incomplete in your journal. But she is still a dangerous individual that will, at some point, have to disembark from her ship and who knows what she'll do to the people on whatever station she finds herself on. She is guilty of murder and is likely emotionally unstable enough to repeat it multiple times. While I find it regrettable, as she is a person clearly in need of help, she does leave us no alternative, if we hope to not have other people share the same fate as the rest of her crew. Doesn't matter - If you read that log, you have to kill her and in doing so, you either condemn him to drifting around in an unmanned ship in a coma or you kill him as well. You're not given the option to get her help. The only way that it might be possible that someone gets her help is if Shepard does not complete the mission. Sometimes, Shepard needs to accept that there are others in the galaxy more equipped to deal with a situation than he/she is rather than just storming in and trying to play hero all the time. It's a mission I never complete... either I never allow it to be entered into my journal (by not approaching that particular system) or I leave it unfinished in my journal.
There is no reason in game for Shepard to enter that system. The quest is an absurd statement about shutting off someone's life support. There is no reason it belongs in Mass Effect.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 12, 2019 17:09:16 GMT
The only way that it might be possible that someone gets her help is if Shepard does not complete the mission (X) Doubt Sometimes, Shepard needs to accept that there are others in the galaxy more equipped to deal with a situation than he/she is rather than just storming in and trying to play hero all the time. Chances are, whoever else boards the ship will also end up dead, just for not being as well equipped. Let her reunite with her loved one in the afterlife. |
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Post by themikefest on Sept 12, 2019 17:19:46 GMT
The issue I had with the SR2 upgrades is Shepard gets them from squadmates. I would have them available at certain points in the game. After Horizon, armor. After collector ship, have shields and after IFF, the weapon is available
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 17:30:27 GMT
The only way that it might be possible that someone gets her help is if Shepard does not complete the mission (X) Doubt Sometimes, Shepard needs to accept that there are others in the galaxy more equipped to deal with a situation than he/she is rather than just storming in and trying to play hero all the time. Chances are, whoever else boards the ship will also end up dead, just for not being as well equipped. Let her reunite with her loved one in the afterlife. Your Shepard has great unlimited hubris, I see... a galactic-sized ego. What is the reason you tell yourself as to why he/she goes into that system in the first place? No message from Hackett. No other quest. Why is she/he there when he/she is supposed to be saving the galaxy by following Saren's trail?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 12, 2019 17:31:31 GMT
Your Shepard has great unlimited hubris, I see... a galactic-sized ego. What is the reason you tell yourself as to why he/she goes into that system in the first place? No message from Hackett. No other quest. Why is she/he there when he/she is supposed to be saving the galaxy by following Saren's trail? I thought I saw one of Sovereign's tentacles. Probable cause. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 17:42:14 GMT
Your Shepard has great unlimited hubris, I see... a galactic-sized ego. What is the reason you tell yourself as to why he/she goes into that system in the first place? No message from Hackett. No other quest. Why is she/he there when he/she is supposed to be saving the galaxy by following Saren's trail? I thought I saw one of Sovereign's tentacles. Probable cause. ... and no limit to how he/she rationalizes irrational actions, I see.
You doubt that help for him or her is possible (since you admitted that you turn off the lift support)... but in the very next game, we learn that Miranda brings Shepard back from the dead. It takes two years and a lot of coin, but it is possible within the MEU... so was she so crazy in not wanting to give up on her boyfriend quite that soon. Sure, she's wrong to have killed the pilot and the crew.. but does he deserve to die?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 12, 2019 17:52:53 GMT
... and no limit to how he/she rationalizes irrational actions, I see. I'd say it's a good thing he was there. You doubt that help for him or her is possible (since you admitted that you turn off the lift support)... but in the very next game, we learn that Miranda brings Shepard back from the dead. It takes two years and a lot of coin, but it is possible within the MEU... so was she so crazy in not wanting to give up on her boyfriend quite that soon I mean, it only takes a few billion credits, a state of the art medical facility and a literal genius to revive one rando in a passing freighter. What's so unrealistic about that? Sure, she's wrong to have killed the pilot and the crew.. but does he deserve to die? She only murder a dozen or so people and is likely to murder however many more her deranged mind spurs her on to. Nothing wrong with that. |
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 12, 2019 18:05:05 GMT
Your Shepard has great unlimited hubris, I see... a galactic-sized ego. What is the reason you tell yourself as to why he/she goes into that system in the first place? No message from Hackett. No other quest. Why is she/he there when he/she is supposed to be saving the galaxy by following Saren's trail? I thought I saw one of Sovereign's tentacles. Probable cause. It was likely one of Liara's head thingies. Nothing that a bolter can't solve however.... |
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Post by Phantom on Sept 12, 2019 18:06:24 GMT
I thought I saw one of Sovereign's tentacles. Probable cause. ... and no limit to how he/she rationalizes irrational actions, I see.
You doubt that help for him or her is possible (since you admitted that you turn off the lift support)... but in the very next game, we learn that Miranda brings Shepard back from the dead. It takes two years and a lot of coin, but it is possible within the MEU... so was she so crazy in not wanting to give up on her boyfriend quite that soon. Sure, she's wrong to have killed the pilot and the crew.. but does he deserve to die?
Keep in mind that Cerberus was dealing with Experimental and Bleed edge Technology in addition with going over-budget to bring 1 person back from the dead. Also Did Shepard had a backing from an organization that deals with Experimental Technology? I don't think that the Council would approve of possiblity of moving resources to do their own Project: Larazus out on a limb because Shepard, a Spectre, politely asked them. I personally look at it as a mercy kill given the situation that Shepard was in. And She was in no condition to take care of him. Her having a psychotic break and killing the crew will cause a lot of problems and depending the reasons for the coma, there will be potential unforseen damage to his health and overall quality of living
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 18:09:07 GMT
... and no limit to how he/she rationalizes irrational actions, I see. I'd say it's a good thing he was there. You doubt that help for him or her is possible (since you admitted that you turn off the lift support)... but in the very next game, we learn that Miranda brings Shepard back from the dead. It takes two years and a lot of coin, but it is possible within the MEU... so was she so crazy in not wanting to give up on her boyfriend quite that soon I mean, it only takes a few billion credits, a state of the art medical facility and a literal genius to revive one rando in a passing freighter. What's so unrealistic about that? Sure, she's wrong to have killed the pilot and the crew.. but does he deserve to die? She only murder a dozen or so people and is likely to murder however many more her deranged mind spurs her on to. Nothing wrong with that. How do you pull the "dozen or so" out of your arse. There is solid evidence of only two other people on the ship - the pilot and the doctor mentioned by the pilot. We have no idea what put Jacob into his coma... perhaps it killed all the other crew. We don't know.
As I said, it is an absolutely horribly designed quest that has no business being in the game in the first place. It is not related to anything in the story and there is no reason for the entire system to even exist in the game relative to the story. The "reward" for doing the quest is only a couple of crates. It only takes away time that Shepard should be using to follow Saren. The best move, IMO, is to just not do it at all rather than try to make up things to have Shepard justify it.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 12, 2019 18:18:00 GMT
How do you pull the "dozen or so" out of your arse Is there a quota you have to fill to be labeled a murderer? Anything above zero is enough. We have no idea what put Jacob into his coma... perhaps it killed all the other crew. We don't know.
As I said, it is an absolutely horribly designed quest that has no business being in the game in the first place. It is not related to anything in the story and there is no reason for the entire system to even exist in the game relative to the story. The "reward" for doing the quest is only a couple of crates. It only takes away time that Shepard should be using to follow Saren. The best move, IMO, is to just not do it at all rather than try to make up things to have Shepard justify it. Yeah, uhuh, OK, sure.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 18:20:31 GMT
How do you pull the "dozen or so" out of your arse Is there a quota you have to fill to be labeled a murderer? Anything above zero is enough. We have no idea what put Jacob into his coma... perhaps it killed all the other crew. We don't know.
As I said, it is an absolutely horribly designed quest that has no business being in the game in the first place. It is not related to anything in the story and there is no reason for the entire system to even exist in the game relative to the story. The "reward" for doing the quest is only a couple of crates. It only takes away time that Shepard should be using to follow Saren. The best move, IMO, is to just not do it at all rather than try to make up things to have Shepard justify it. Yeah, uhuh, OK, sure. ... and how many people has Shepard killed?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Sept 12, 2019 18:22:17 GMT
... and how many murderers has Shepard killed? As many as it takes. |
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Post by Phantom on Sept 12, 2019 18:27:33 GMT
Is there a quota you have to fill to be labeled a murderer? Anything above zero is enough. Yeah, uhuh, OK, sure. ... and how many people has Shepard killed? Shepard's occupation is a N7 Marine and a Spectre. During the Course of their duties, Killing in self defense is normal and witnessing violence is common place. There is a massive difference in killing due to a psychotic break and being an known violence profession in which Spectres and N7 Marines are violence profession sanctioned by their respective governments. True that Spectres and N7 Marines can and will kill due to their chosen profession but even then they are answerable to their respective governments. So Shepard in his legal right can arrest her if possible(if there was an option in game) or kill her out self defense due to her attacking him.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 18:51:34 GMT
... and how many people has Shepard killed? Shepard's occupation is a N7 Marine and a Spectre. During the Course of their duties, Killing in self defense is normal and witnessing violence is common place. There is a massive difference in killing due to a psychotic break and being an known violence profession in which Spectres and N7 Marines are violence profession sanctioned by their respective governments. True that Spectres and N7 Marines can and will kill due to their chosen profession but even then they are answerable to their respective governments. So Shepard in his legal right can arrest her if possible(if there was an option in game) or kill her out self defense due to her attacking him. What about Jeong? Was that really self-defense? You have to have a very high charm or intimidate level to avoid killing him and Juliana Baynam's assessment of the situation is that Jeong was shot in the back.
What about all the other optional killings Shepard can do, is each one self-defense... or are some of them more akin to vigilante justice?... Dr. Wayne, Toombs, Major Kyle and his followers, Helena Blake, Jax, Chorban, Dr. Ross, Dr. Heart (who is running away when you or Garrus shoots him), Shiala, the Rachni Queen, Fist, Fist's bodyguards, Rana Thanoptis, the Salarian prisoners, Wrex, etc.?
... and all of them our outside the task the Council assigned him/her.
The point here is that there are good reasons for not doing UNC missions. I don't accept this notion of "I'm saving everyone" as the driving force for doing them all. If the player has 100% completion OCD, they should admit that and not get all sanctimonious about it.
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Post by Phantom on Sept 12, 2019 19:08:28 GMT
Shepard's occupation is a N7 Marine and a Spectre. During the Course of their duties, Killing in self defense is normal and witnessing violence is common place. There is a massive difference in killing due to a psychotic break and being an known violence profession in which Spectres and N7 Marines are violence profession sanctioned by their respective governments. True that Spectres and N7 Marines can and will kill due to their chosen profession but even then they are answerable to their respective governments. So Shepard in his legal right can arrest her if possible(if there was an option in game) or kill her out self defense due to her attacking him. What about Jeong? Was that really self-defense? You have to have a very high charm or initimidate level to avoid killing him and Juliana Baynam's assessment of the situation is that Jeong was shot in the back.
What about all the other optional killings Shepard can do, is each one self-defense... or are some of them more akin to vigilante justice?... Dr. Wayne, Toombs, Major Kyle and his followers, Helena Blake, Jax, Chorban, Dr. Ross, Dr. Heart, Shiala, the Rachni Queen, Fist, Fist's bodyguards, etc.?
... and all of them our outside the task the Council assigned him/her.
The point here is that there are good reasons for not doing UNC missions. I don't except this notion of "I'm saving everyone" as the driving force for doing them all. If the player has 100% completion OCD, they should admit that and not get all sanctimonious about it.
*facepalms* Do you realize you missed Spectre and their legal discretion? For example if there was an option to arrest Jeong for the shit he did, an argument for the Death Penalty would be in work. Also I do understand the more Renegade mind set in each of those situations. Spectre Justice vs Vigilante Justice in mass effect universe is the difference between legal vs illegal. Well Keep in mind that you are coming across as very sanctimonious right now.
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Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Sept 12, 2019 20:00:51 GMT
What about Jeong? Was that really self-defense? You have to have a very high charm or initimidate level to avoid killing him and Juliana Baynam's assessment of the situation is that Jeong was shot in the back.
What about all the other optional killings Shepard can do, is each one self-defense... or are some of them more akin to vigilante justice?... Dr. Wayne, Toombs, Major Kyle and his followers, Helena Blake, Jax, Chorban, Dr. Ross, Dr. Heart, Shiala, the Rachni Queen, Fist, Fist's bodyguards, etc.?
... and all of them our outside the task the Council assigned him/her.
The point here is that there are good reasons for not doing UNC missions. I don't except this notion of "I'm saving everyone" as the driving force for doing them all. If the player has 100% completion OCD, they should admit that and not get all sanctimonious about it.
*facepalms* Do you realize you missed Spectre and their legal discretion? For example if there was an option to arrest Jeong for the shit he did, an argument for the Death Penalty would be in work. Also I do understand the more Renegade mind set in each of those situations. Spectre Justice vs Vigilante Justice in mass effect universe is the difference between legal vs illegal. Well Keep in mind that you are coming across as very sanctimonious right now.
At the start of ME1 it's stated several times that the Specters ONLY answer to the Council and to no one else. It's also stated several times that as long as the Specters don't make a big intergalactic political mess they turn a blind eye to a lot of their actions.
So yes: A Spectre can kill someone in cold blood murder and as long as the Spectre can justify it as self defense and/or it doesn't create a big problem for the Council they don't care. This stated by almost every Spectre candidate, current and former Spectre in the series from Shepard, Ash, Kaiden, Saren, Avitis Rix, and that asari Spectre in ME2: Lair of the Shadow Broker, as well as Anderson, Udini, and even the Council.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 13, 2019 2:53:04 GMT
I must have missed the part where Shepard and Saren had a gentleman's agreement that Saren would wait at the Conduit while Shepard ordered the Normandy into random clusters.
Edit: just pointing out that talking about Shepard's motivations is pointless. We all know that the net is down, and people who want to do the sidequests will just make up whatever bogus thought process they need to have in order to make doing them make sense.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 13, 2019 3:09:06 GMT
I agree that some of the characters in ME3 felt tacked on but overall I felt it was handled well. Andromeda well everyone here knows I liked it and felt it overall was handled well. The open world can use a bit of tweaking however. My biggest problem with ME3's characters is the unknown sacrifices they made to have all the characters return for I think all of them had an alternate created if they died in Mass Effect 2. How much of the design for the returning characters lost some of their more unique style or were written in a way they could fit into a box that could be replaced by a new character. For a lot of them felt a lot different between The Citadel DLC and the main game. I can see that but overall I felt they were handled well. |
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 13, 2019 6:57:28 GMT
(Honestly, I though ME2 got this right. Normandy needs stuff for upgrades, and you're searching for it. If you bump into something while you're doing that, it's a bonus) Sure, the Normandy needs upgrades. So instead of actually upgrading the Normandy, TIM leaves it to Shepard to mine the minerals, smelt them, and ask the crew "anyone know what we can do with this stuff?"  Seriously, up until ME3 I strongly suspected TIM set Shepard up to fail. Sure. But hey, to even get to this point we had to swallow Shepard having to buy his own weapons in ME1 with personal cash. It's like the technology of expense accounts was somehow lost.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 13, 2019 7:07:31 GMT
Bio put about as much work into them as made sense, unless we're talking about some fantasy budget. (I know you like to propose those, but it's not useful to think about things which EA would never have approved.) Like I said before, it is all about the payoff. If the payoff is avoiding debacles like the one that Bioware DID face with ME, then I would wager the end result to be worth it. The thing is EA and Bioware decided it wasn't worth it, rolled the dice on that one and they lost. You may disagree on that, but I think I've proven otherwise. Define "payoff" and "lost." It's not clear that there were very many additional sales to be gained doing things the way you would have liked them to have been done, if there were any at all. Who are these people who didn't buy ME3 or ME3's DLCs because it didn't have enough of the ME2 squadmates? And the critic reviews were just fine. So what's the metric here? As written, the conclusion doesn't follow from the evidence. How was Jack to have been introduced in the early version? Was Grissom Academy even written? If it had been written, was it mandatory?
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Sanunes
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 13, 2019 8:57:12 GMT
My biggest problem with ME3's characters is the unknown sacrifices they made to have all the characters return for I think all of them had an alternate created if they died in Mass Effect 2. How much of the design for the returning characters lost some of their more unique style or were written in a way they could fit into a box that could be replaced by a new character. For a lot of them felt a lot different between The Citadel DLC and the main game. I can see that but overall I felt they were handled well. I won't argue against that, I think for me its mostly a case of "what might have been" if they didn't have to create at the very least an alternate solution for every character because of the chance they might have died in another game. Not sure if that makes sense.
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