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Post by biggydx on Nov 3, 2019 1:01:42 GMT
If we're being honest with ourselves here, BioWare didn't really know what they wanted the game to be. I'm not even counting the 2017 reveal demo shown at E3, but when a prototype of the game was shown to Patrick Sodurland (IIRC, based on the article). It was only up until then that they decided to settle on the mech-suit/flying aspect of the gameplay, but this happened AFTER Sodurland played initial version of the game (which they were attempting to build) and said that he did not enjoy it. So by in large, while elements that could BE a game were built, it was not a fully conceptualized product; at least not until the last minute.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Nov 3, 2019 5:31:55 GMT
Christ, I will be so relieved when CDPR finally fucks up and every thread on this forum doesn't pivot to only talking about them instead. Wow. The hate is strong with this one. And yet not as strong as this cultish mass obsession with a 5 year-old game that the studio this forum is about didn't even make.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 4, 2019 15:06:05 GMT
Wow. The hate is strong with this one. And yet not as strong as this cultish mass obsession with a 5 year-old game that the studio this forum is about didn't even make. It's not an obsession about a game that isn't made by Bioware, it is the difference in public reception of one studio to another. In the eyes of the general gaming public, CDPR can do no wrong and Bioware can do nothing but wrong. We are simply examining what caused these diametrically opposite stances on a relative newcomer on the gaming scene and a legendary studio that set the bar on RPGs with one of its early titles.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2019 11:33:59 GMT
I still think Bioware can compete with the most popular RPG/ARPG titles out there today. I'm more interested in finding out if they really want to.
I hope that people currently at Bioware look at The Wild Hunt, Greedfall, Outer Worlds... hell, even the recent Assassin's Creed entries, and think, "Yeah, we can still show them a thing or two". I really hope they still have that fire. Based on what we've heard of Anthem's development, a culture of arrogance had almost taken over in the management positions at the studio. I hope they've now had a reality check and are ready to get back to proving themselves.
I do think they're more than capable though, if they still want it. I've got my fingers crossed for DA4 and I'm looking forward to seeing more of it in the years to come.
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Post by Debaser on Nov 6, 2019 13:31:05 GMT
2022/2023 is so far away so it is hard to say... I do think as long as BioWare operates on the Frostbite engine they will be hamstrung. EA putting all its eggs in the Frostbite basket has been the downfall to a lot of their franchises. There are other factors like talent, suit meddling, etc, but the Frostbite engine works for DICE and has been a failure/pain in the ass just about everywhere else within EA.
BioWare still has lots of talent in its studio, but their management/leadership doesn't seem to have a cohesive vision or is incapable of piecing all that talent together. Until they get their studio on the same page from top to bottom their games will be scattershot messes. If you're into sports I feel like BioWare is a good head coach away from making the playoffs 😂, but as it stands now they are one bad game away from crashing and burning.
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Post by biggydx on Nov 6, 2019 19:13:20 GMT
I still think Bioware can compete with the most popular RPG/ARPG titles out there today. I'm more interested in finding out if they really want to. I hope that people currently at Bioware look at The Wild Hunt, Greedfall, Outer Worlds... hell, even the recent Assassin's Creed entries, and think, "Yeah, we can still show them a thing or two". I really hope they still have that fire. Based on what we've heard of Anthem's development, a culture of arrogance had almost taken over in the management positions at the studio. I hope they've now had a reality check and are ready to get back to proving themselves. I do think they're more than capable though, if they still want it. I've got my fingers crossed for DA4 and I'm looking forward to seeing more of it in the years to come. I'm sure this opinion is contentious for some here, but I think there's a portion of the BioWare audience that still wants (or at least wanted) them to go back to making games similar to how they made Baldurs Gate. It's clear that BioWare has moved away from said genre, but I'm of the belief that - if this continues to be the case - then it's not that big of an issue because there's other studios out there (Obsidian/Larian) who can fill this void for said players. If BioWare wants to go down the more action-oriented RPG route, that's fine. However, if you're going to tout yourself as a story focused studio, along with using the age-old RPG marketing phrase of, "your choices will matter," then the finished product needs to reflect that. If my decisions won't be based off of how heavily invested I was in a particular stat/trait, then at the very least my actions should allow for greater reactivity in the world space; and said inhabitants. And, of course, the story needs to be told well. To your statement about what they can offer: As it stands, BioWare is still one of the few - maybe the only - AAA studio that still does party-based RPG's. They need to leverage this aspect in unique ways. And as obscure as this might sound, I'd also argue that they could even look to LOTR: Shadow of War (and its Nemesis system) when it comes to designing cannon-fodder enemies. Most games we play never really give any life or emotion to the enemies we face; save for a few choice antagonists. But if you give these enemies some semblance of character, it would help in making said foes feel like they actually have their own motivations, their own beliefs, and their own causes for why they fight. I don't need to be as extensive as the Nemesis system, but if I were to kill an enemy and one of their comrades screamed out, "Marcus! NO!!!" and started fighting with more fervor, that would have more of an impact on me.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Nov 6, 2019 19:20:14 GMT
As it stands, BioWare is still one of the few - maybe the only - AAA studio that still does party-based RPG's. They need to leverage this aspect in unique ways. Definitely this. MEA's party combat was...not encouraging. I haven't played the Trilogy, so don't know if it was different to what we got in MEA, but I really, really don't want DA4 to feature "less" of a party combat system than DAI did. And MEA was far, far less.
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Post by Little Bengel on Nov 6, 2019 19:28:34 GMT
As it stands, BioWare is still one of the few - maybe the only - AAA studio that still does party-based RPG's. They need to leverage this aspect in unique ways. Definitely this. MEA's party combat was...not encouraging. I haven't played the Trilogy, so don't know if it was different to what we got in MEA, but I really, really don't want DA4 to feature "less" of a party combat system than DAI did. And MEA was far, far less. Let's just say the Trilogy allowed you to order your squadmates to use any of their powers if you wanted, and you could alter their weapon loadouts as well. Definitely not even half as much as DAI (or any other DA, to be honest) did, but still a helluva lot more than MEA.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Nov 6, 2019 19:31:13 GMT
Definitely this. MEA's party combat was...not encouraging. I haven't played the Trilogy, so don't know if it was different to what we got in MEA, but I really, really don't want DA4 to feature "less" of a party combat system than DAI did. And MEA was far, far less. Let's just say the Trilogy allowed you to order your squadmates to use any of their powers if you wanted, and you could alter their weapon loadouts as well. Definitely not even half as much as DAI (or any other DA, to be honest) did, but still a helluva lot more than MEA. *disgusted noise* Thanks, though.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 6, 2019 19:48:03 GMT
As far as squad customization is concerned...MEA was just fine.
As for squad tactics just some small tweaks/ improvements to Inquisition is all that's needed.
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Post by cypherj on Nov 6, 2019 21:35:53 GMT
Definitely this. MEA's party combat was...not encouraging. I haven't played the Trilogy, so don't know if it was different to what we got in MEA, but I really, really don't want DA4 to feature "less" of a party combat system than DAI did. And MEA was far, far less. Let's just say the Trilogy allowed you to order your squadmates to use any of their powers if you wanted, and you could alter their weapon loadouts as well. Definitely not even half as much as DAI (or any other DA, to be honest) did, but still a helluva lot more than MEA. I thought the customization of squad members in ME1 was great. It was like DA:O, when your squad members could where anything you could if they were the right race. Then other squadmembers had race specific armor. It was the whole iconic outfit thing that started in the second game of each series that killed some of the customization. Having squadmate powers on the hotbar was awesome. Target someone, Kasumi shadow strike. Or priming enemies in ME3 using a squadmate and then detonating with biotic charge for example. Was just great. I really missed that in ME:A. Even more so because your squadmates had party based buff abilities that you couldn't tell them to use when they were in position to hit squadmates with them. They just ran around popping them, benefiting no one but themselves. I've always been more forgiving of DA party mechanics, because you could actually switch to other party members if you needed to. They just need to add healing spells back. This isn't SAO dammit
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 6, 2019 22:22:19 GMT
As it stands, BioWare is still one of the few - maybe the only - AAA studio that still does party-based RPG's. They need to leverage this aspect in unique ways. Definitely this. MEA's party combat was...not encouraging. I haven't played the Trilogy, so don't know if it was different to what we got in MEA, but I really, really don't want DA4 to feature "less" of a party combat system than DAI did. And MEA was far, far less. How'd you end up playing MEA but not the trilogy, anyway?
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Nov 6, 2019 22:30:03 GMT
Definitely this. MEA's party combat was...not encouraging. I haven't played the Trilogy, so don't know if it was different to what we got in MEA, but I really, really don't want DA4 to feature "less" of a party combat system than DAI did. And MEA was far, far less. How'd you end up playing MEA but not the trilogy, anyway? Small reasons, really - I prefer fantasy to Sci-Fi and for the sci-fi "itch" I had the two KOTOR games. My PC wasn't up to much when ME1 came out and couple that with the fact that I played DAO more or less constantly from getting it to DA2 releasing, by that time it was almost a "thing" with me. Then I played DA2 and TW2. And then DAI came out and more or less took over my gaming life. It was only the gap between DAI and anything else that really grabbed my attention - save for TW3 and Pillars 1 - RPG-wise that made me want to try out MEA. I thought it was "fine", though the least of the Bioware games that I have played. I also only played it once all the patching had been done - so I didn't get any weird glitches or bugs in my one completed PT.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 7, 2019 0:52:42 GMT
Makes sense. Still, you should hit the trilogy someday.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Nov 7, 2019 1:11:57 GMT
Makes sense. Still, you should hit the trilogy someday. You're actually the second person to tell me that on this forum in the last 8 hours...
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Post by melbella on Nov 7, 2019 1:38:07 GMT
Makes sense. Still, you should hit the trilogy someday. You're actually the second person to tell me that on this forum in the last 8 hours...
Wait....they let you be a mod and you haven't played ME1/2/3?! Sacrilege!
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Nov 7, 2019 1:39:11 GMT
You're actually the second person to tell me that on this forum in the last 8 hours...
Wait....they let you be a mod and you haven't played ME1/2/3?! Sacrilege!
........ I should go....?
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 7, 2019 2:08:24 GMT
Wait....they let you be a mod and you haven't played ME1/2/3?! Sacrilege!
........ I should go....?
To the store and buy it? Yes
Andromeda reminded me a lot of Mass Effect 1, but the more action orientated aspects of Mass Effect 2 and 3 appealed to me more. As far as the squad combat the problem I think BioWare is running into is using the hardware limitations to make games that appeal to the masses or some of the more long time features. Companion AI takes a lot of system memory, but so do things like graphics and I still remember starting about Mass Effect 2 the "this game looks so old" style of complaints. Now players want 4K 60fps gameplay and I think a lot is being sacrificed by a lot of games and not just by BioWare to even get something close.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 15:40:24 GMT
Makes sense. Still, you should hit the trilogy someday. You're actually the second person to tell me that on this forum in the last 8 hours... You really should though, if you get the chance. At the very least try ME1. You've experienced the worst title in the series, why not have a look at the best one?!
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 7, 2019 15:50:43 GMT
You're actually the second person to tell me that on this forum in the last 8 hours... You really should though, if you get the chance. At the very least try ME1 ME2. You've experienced the worst title in the series, why not have a look at the best one?! FTFY.
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 7, 2019 16:08:42 GMT
As far as squad customization is concerned...MEA was just fine. As for squad tactics just some small tweaks/ improvements to Inquisition is all that's needed. Was there any customization? This was one area of Andromeda that I found particularly unsatisfying, especially considering the fact that the game included a crafting system. Personally, once I create a loadout I feel is optimal for my character, I don't really bother making many other things except just to play around for a few minutes, but I'll typically just keep the same custom weapons and simply upgrade to higher tiers of the same. The fact that squad members cannot be equipped with custom anything means that I don't really have incentive to play around as much with the mechanic. I was sorely disappointed that I couldn't give Peebee a Remnant rifle with seeker rounds, or Drack a higher power shotgun that incinerates everything. This would be fine if the weapons they had were part of their personal story, but it's not the case, with Jaal being the sole exception with his Kett sniper rifle.
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 7, 2019 16:17:19 GMT
You're actually the second person to tell me that on this forum in the last 8 hours... You really should though, if you get the chance. At the very least try ME1. You've experienced the worst title in the series, why not have a look at the best one?! I feel that at this point, suggestions to try ME1 should come with some caveats. The game simply feels its age now. I love the game to bits, but there are big chunks of the game that can feel like a slog, especially if you're gunning for a total completionist playthrough. If you're accustomed to modern shooters, going back to ME1 can really take you out of it, especially since stat-based mechanics used so heavily on combat that is largely manual can be really aggravating (and why ME3 probably feels the best even to this day). I'm also convinced that it's impossible to reach max level on the first playthrough, even if you exploit the renegade dialogue with Lorik Qui'in on Noveria to unlock both the renegade and paragon-specific missions.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 16:27:09 GMT
You really should though, if you get the chance. At the very least try ME1. You've experienced the worst title in the series, why not have a look at the best one?! I feel that at this point, suggestions to try ME1 should come with some caveats. The game simply feels its age now. I love the game to bits, but there are big chunks of the game that can feel like a slog, especially if you're gunning for a total completionist playthrough. If you're accustomed to modern shooters, going back to ME1 can really take you out of it, especially since stat-based mechanics used so heavily on combat that is largely manual can be really aggravating (and why ME3 probably feels the best even to this day). I'm also convinced that it's impossible to reach max level on the first playthrough, even if you exploit the renegade dialogue with Lorik Qui'in on Noveria to unlock both the renegade and paragon-specific missions. I know what you mean, but I feel like a Mod on the BSN fan forums should be able to get down with ME1!
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Post by cypherj on Nov 7, 2019 16:54:37 GMT
You're actually the second person to tell me that on this forum in the last 8 hours... You really should though, if you get the chance. At the very least try ME1. You've experienced the worst title in the series, why not have a look at the best one?!
I agree, you can't play the series without ME1. All the universe building took place in that game.
Then there's the intro. Anderson and Udina talking. That walk through the Normandy to the bridge with the theme playing in the background. Seeing your character for the first time, and going through the Mass Relay for the first time. Epic! I was hooked from the start.
It's just so different from the other two games in the trilogy though.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Nov 7, 2019 19:20:18 GMT
We'll see.
Maybe one day. Despite my grumbling/complaining in another thread, my gaming dance card is actually pretty full for the next few years. In no particular order;
RDR2 for PC, Jedi Fallen Order, Bloodlines 2, Cyberpunk (maybe), AssCreed "Next", Greedfall and maybe Disco Elysium and - when it comes off Epic exclusive - Outer Worlds.
Given the speed at which I play (and the apparent determination of my life to gradually reduce the amount of time I have to game), I should be set with those through to November 2022 at least...
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