linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 9, 2019 0:17:59 GMT
So I recently had an idea that I pitched to an editor of mine, to go back to older RPG's and do 'old school' style companion overview that can provide some analysis to basic companion builds, stats, personality and personal questlines.
The idea spawns from older websites such as Gamebanshee back in the day, or nowadays off of Steam or Fextralife. This included a run-down of who the companions were, some basic information on their stats, where they can be recruited, some story elements and flavor, and sometimes in-depth companion builds.
Considering the amount of isometrics that are being made today, and the lack of detailed guides on companion builds that are readily available, I thought why not make some myself. I started with Dragon Age: Origins specifically to help pitch the idea since it's the 10 year anniversary for the game, and my editor was intrigued by the idea, but felt that it would not be worth pursuing further. The two criticisms given to me was it would be too long as an article, and that it would be like a strategy guide that would be great for when the game released, but not now. In their words "having a series that explores the attributes and talents of companions from old RPGs doesn't seem all that appealing, if I'm being honest."
The question I guess I have is my editor correct? While my example for Dragon Age: Origins is partially the reason why I am posting the poll here, the question can extend to pretty much any RPG that has companion characters. I had ideas for extending this to Pathfinder Kingmaker, Pillars of Eternity, Fallout, Planescape Torment, Tides of Numenera and even games like Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest. The problem is few of those game have timely releases out right now, and really require time to dissect into them efficiently.
If the issue is length, that may be a problem. The proof of concept I did write was about four pages long, and went into Origin's Attributes, Skills, and Talents/Spell system first before doing two pages on Alistair's Tank Build and personality. By request if you like I can post it below for you all to judge, or PM me. I more or less wrote how I would have posted it if I had my own website to do so (minus standard grammatical editing).
I guess I will leave it to you guys. What do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? Should I re-tool this into something more mainstream? Should I just give it up? Let me know.
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Post by smilesja on Nov 9, 2019 2:42:55 GMT
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Cyberstrike
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Post by Cyberstrike on Nov 9, 2019 14:12:46 GMT
Yes.
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Noxluxe
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Post by Noxluxe on Nov 9, 2019 15:01:05 GMT
I don't really see the need. Personally I know Origins and its companions' relative strengths and build options like the back of my own hand by now, and during those playthroughs where I've felt compelled to look up advice on how to build the ones with the weirder and less optimal ability loadouts (the rogues, obv.) I've never had to look very far. Unless you really think you have some super insights that can't be found elsewhere, I wouldn't bother adding to the pile. An approach that your editor might find more catchy, if you insist on doing this with classic RPGs, would be a series exploring abilities and builds that haven't been used a lot over the years. Things that the average player might never have thought to invest in because they aren't obvious or seem counterintuitive, but are nonetheless effective and fun if done in particular ways. A way to freshen up your next playthrough, so to speak. Most of the guides I bother to read are about specifically unorthodox and flavorful builds. For example, how to play a classic single-saber Jedi melee killing machine in Kotor 2 that can actually compete against the freak double-saber powerhouses those games always try to forge you into because one saber just hasn't been enough for people since Phantom Menace and everyone loves dual wielding. 
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Post by Nightscrawl on Nov 11, 2019 3:50:54 GMT
The two criticisms given to me was it would be too long as an article, and that it would be like a strategy guide that would be great for when the game released, but not now. I don't see length being an issue. The piece can be cut into smaller pieces or a series. I think it's shorted-sighted, and shows a lack of creativity, to envision it solely as a huge word vomit that would lose a reader's attention. If it had been written and posted on the anniversary, I think it would have been a fun tribute to a great game that introduced many of us to a universe that we love and gave us many hundreds of hours of enjoyment. I do agree that it seems too late for such a detailed piece. Or perhaps this is just the wrong place to ask about such a thing. The people on these forums tend to know about the DAO followers and have no need for such a guide. On the other hand... I had ideas for extending this to Pathfinder Kingmaker, Pillars of Eternity, Fallout, Planescape Torment, Tides of Numenera and even games like Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest. None of these, despite their age, are games I've played. So for players like me, looking to get into an older game, it might be worthwhile. My primary suggestion would be to keep character content separate from combat content. There are times where I will be looking for build info., and times I will be looking for character info., and want to find those things easily. I don't want to be reading about a character's personality and background nestled amongst combat build info. Some players might not necessarily care about the min-maxing nature of such combat guides, or reject what some other random player deems "the best," or feel that the person's suggestions don't match their own play style. For instance, popular Merrill builds have her as a blood magic tank, but that's just not a way I want my mages to be in a party; I usually build her out as a debuffer with entropy. I really don't care what most people have to say about combat builds unless I'm struggling and intentionally seeking out that info.
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linksocarina
N5
   
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 27, 2019 22:55:51 GMT
The two criticisms given to me was it would be too long as an article, and that it would be like a strategy guide that would be great for when the game released, but not now. I don't see length being an issue. The piece can be cut into smaller pieces or a series. I think it's shorted-sighted, and shows a lack of creativity, to envision it solely as a huge word vomit that would lose a reader's attention. If it had been written and posted on the anniversary, I think it would have been a fun tribute to a great game that introduced many of us to a universe that we love and gave us many hundreds of hours of enjoyment. I do agree that it seems too late for such a detailed piece. Or perhaps this is just the wrong place to ask about such a thing. The people on these forums tend to know about the DAO followers and have no need for such a guide. On the other hand... I had ideas for extending this to Pathfinder Kingmaker, Pillars of Eternity, Fallout, Planescape Torment, Tides of Numenera and even games like Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest. None of these, despite their age, are games I've played. So for players like me, looking to get into an older game, it might be worthwhile. My primary suggestion would be to keep character content separate from combat content. There are times where I will be looking for build info., and times I will be looking for character info., and want to find those things easily. I don't want to be reading about a character's personality and background nestled amongst combat build info. Some players might not necessarily care about the min-maxing nature of such combat guides, or reject what some other random player deems "the best," or feel that the person's suggestions don't match their own play style. For instance, popular Merrill builds have her as a blood magic tank, but that's just not a way I want my mages to be in a party; I usually build her out as a debuffer with entropy. I really don't care what most people have to say about combat builds unless I'm struggling and intentionally seeking out that info. The idea (which is more or less dead) was to do a full guide with as much info as possible on "typical" builds, like for example, a Merrill Blood Mage Tank which is actually what her best build is. It is a bit min-maxy, but a lot of primary guides are to maximize the effectiveness of companions from a mechanical sense. I know folks said before to do something unique with them, but each character in Origins, and to an extant each character in each RPG I mentioned above, is tailored to a specific role for the party. So the goal was to go over typical builds and mention a bit of lore and persona in there as well. So, here is a sample of what I mean: This I wrote for Alistair, edited down from my original writing which was longer and actually went into personality and quest-lines and such. "Alistair • Location: Ostagar (Automatically Joins) • Class: Warrior • Specialization: Templar • Party Role: Tank • Starting Skills: Combat Training Attributes (Level 4) • Strength: 20 • Dexterity: 17 • Willpower: 15 • Magic: 12 • Cunning: 11 • Constitution: 13 Starting Talents (Level 4) • Warrior: Powerful • Weapon and Shield: Shield Bash, Shield Pummel, Shield Block, Shield Cover • Templar: Righteous Strike Alistair is the first permanent companion players may receive, outside of the Mabari War Hound of the Human Noble Origin. A young Grey Warden who joins you for much of the adventure, Alistair represents the classic sword-and-board archetype found in most RPGs. Thanks to his starting talents, he is easily one of the best tanks in the entire game. Alistair’s statistics easily reflect this role. At level 4, his best attributes are his strength and dexterity, ranked at 20 and 17 respectively. His weakest stat, cunning at 11, is also good due to it not being necessary for a tank build, though you will need to increase it slightly for skills such as master combat training and master combat tactics. Other stats to keep in mind for builds include a decent willpower at 15, and a below average constitution at 13. The best method to build up Alistair is to focus on constitution first. While a high dexterity makes sense for a tank character, in this case it may see Alistair go down constantly if constitution is completely ignored. At least one attribute point should go into strength at each level up as well, and because of his Templar Specialization, players might want to consider putting some points into willpower for good measure. Due to the spread of needing four out of the six stats, my recommendation for a typical tank build would be alternating levels of constitution and strength at a 2-1 ratio, and dexterity and strength at a 2- 1 ratio at first. Once your dexterity hits the number 26, (around level 10-12) switch to willpower until level 18. This array gives Alistair not only a deeper stamina pool for his sustained abilities, it also keeps him on pace health-wise to absorb a ton of damage in the thick of battle. Ideally you want Alistair to have at least 42 strength, 26, dexterity and 16 cunning to have access to all skills and talents needed. The 42 strength also allows him to wear Dragonbone Plate Armor, arguably the best massive armor in the game. Another armor set to consider is King Cailan’s Armor, which is found in the Return to Ostagar DLC, as it provides not fatigue penalty, meaning you can use more sustained abilities at a time. Towards the end of the game, the attribute array could be more flexible, changing it to a +1 across strength, willpower and constitution evenly, with occasional dips into cunning to 16 and dexterity to at least 30. Talents-wise, Alistair is rigid as a weapon and shield warrior. Every companion, regardless of when you recruit them in the game, comes with pre-determined talents and spells that cannot be changed. It would take the expansion, Awakening, to add respecing, while subsequent Dragon Age games would include it as a feature going forward. Some combat talents like Threaten are a must and should be taken as early as level 5. The entire Shield Block line will increase his survivability, hence the need for 26 dexterity. Shield Balance is also useful to eliminate attack penalties and Overpower gives you a reliable ability to employ in combat that can be devastating to defensively weaker enemies like mages. Alistair’s Templar Specialization also provides abilities that increase the party’s sustainability, such as Cleanse Area, and increase his mental resistance, making him ideal for isolating mages and eliminating from the field quickly. Since each character gets a second Specialization at level 14, the best choice to compliment Alistair would be Champion if it is available. Access to powers such as War Cry and Rally from the Champion talent line give Alistair an area of effect debuff along with a sustainable buff for the rest of the party, that synergizes well with other sustained affects such as Miasma. Overall, Alistair is a great companion, and arguably the most indispensable warrior you can get in the game. He won’t be doing massive amounts of damage, but he will be able to take a ton of hits, isolate threats like mages, and provide cover for the party with ease. " So something like this for each companion was the idea. Break down the role they play, what stats to build into, what talents/spells to take, and then if time, equipment to enhance it.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Nov 28, 2019 6:50:48 GMT
So something like this for each companion was the idea. Break down the role they play, what stats to build into, what talents/spells to take, and then if time, equipment to enhance it. Gotcha... Not something I would have been interested in, even for a game with which I was unfamiliar. Reading that sort of detailed breakdown of character builds and statistics is not my cup of tea, sorry.
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