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Post by river82 on Dec 22, 2019 21:18:09 GMT
Comparing BioWare reviews from a decade ago to what reviewers are giving now is just as bad as not holding games equally. What you describe is passable from a player audience, but not from people that expect money for their reviews. They should be setting a single bar so players know what you are reviewing is equally comparable so there is a consistency so based on prior experiences the player has with other games helps color the review now. I want to know if you didn't like Dragon Age, I know I am not going to like The Witcher because they can be similar on different levels. Not that Dragon Age is a far worse game because its EA now and we want to review it harder because that is what the internet will click on while having similar problems within The Witcher that we cannot mention because the internet will hate us. Besides if people are going to get upset that BioWare has a save game corruption issue in Mass Effect: Andromeda, I expect the same website to be telling me that The Witcher 3 has a similar game corruption issue. Not to play BioWare games have fallen so drastically in their quality card when in the past when you could get stuck in a wall and clip into the atmosphere being a higher quality game then Andromeda. Just look at the problems in Andromeda and the amount of think pieces that were written about those issues and even comparing them to problems other modern AAA games have. I haven't seen any think pieces towards Fallen Jedi where they are ripping apart the game for all its faults and problems and that game is far from unique its just a combination of several other games into something interesting. I nearly vomited the when playing Fallen Order because the elevator sequence bug and yet again nobody seems to make a big deal of that and again "my face is tired" is still something people use against BioWare when that saying fits within the realm of what you would hear a person that speaks French would say. The worst save game bug I found was in Fable 3. Fable 3 had this mechanism where you couldn't save, it would save automatically for you on a SINGLE FILE. So when I found a bug which broke the game, and the game reloaded me to a state after the bug happened, I quit the game and never returned. But Fable got a lot of passes as well for being "innovative" and "breaking the mould". Comparing Andromeda and Jedi Fallen to each other is difficult because they're different games. And actually that's the problem with Andromeda, nobody makes games like Mass Effect and because of this the only games it can really be compared to are the Trilogy games. With other games like this the developers make sure they make improvements - sport games make incremental improvements every year so when it's compared with the previous edition it will be SLIGHTLY better. And games like Skyrim and RDR2 made sure to improve over its predecessors (not hard when Oblivion was shit, but once again "innovative 10/10" bullshit). Andromeda was always going to be compared to the Trilogy and it wasn't an obvious upgrade.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,900 Likes: 8,927
inherit
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8,927
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,900
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 22, 2019 21:47:23 GMT
Comparing BioWare reviews from a decade ago to what reviewers are giving now is just as bad as not holding games equally. What you describe is passable from a player audience, but not from people that expect money for their reviews. They should be setting a single bar so players know what you are reviewing is equally comparable so there is a consistency so based on prior experiences the player has with other games helps color the review now. I want to know if you didn't like Dragon Age, I know I am not going to like The Witcher because they can be similar on different levels. Not that Dragon Age is a far worse game because its EA now and we want to review it harder because that is what the internet will click on while having similar problems within The Witcher that we cannot mention because the internet will hate us. Besides if people are going to get upset that BioWare has a save game corruption issue in Mass Effect: Andromeda, I expect the same website to be telling me that The Witcher 3 has a similar game corruption issue. Not to play BioWare games have fallen so drastically in their quality card when in the past when you could get stuck in a wall and clip into the atmosphere being a higher quality game then Andromeda. Just look at the problems in Andromeda and the amount of think pieces that were written about those issues and even comparing them to problems other modern AAA games have. I haven't seen any think pieces towards Fallen Jedi where they are ripping apart the game for all its faults and problems and that game is far from unique its just a combination of several other games into something interesting. I nearly vomited the when playing Fallen Order because the elevator sequence bug and yet again nobody seems to make a big deal of that and again "my face is tired" is still something people use against BioWare when that saying fits within the realm of what you would hear a person that speaks French would say. The worst save game bug I found was in Fable 3. Fable 3 had this mechanism where you couldn't save, it would save automatically for you on a SINGLE FILE. So when I found a bug which broke the game, and the game reloaded me to a state after the bug happened, I quit the game and never returned. But Fable got a lot of passes as well for being "innovative" and "breaking the mould". Comparing Andromeda and Jedi Fallen to each other is difficult because they're different games. And actually that's the problem with Andromeda, nobody makes games like Mass Effect and because of this the only games it can really be compared to are the Trilogy games. With other games like this the developers make sure they make improvements - sport games make incremental improvements every year so when it's compared with the previous edition it will be SLIGHTLY better. And games like Skyrim and RDR2 made sure to improve over its predecessors (not hard when Oblivion was shit, but once again "innovative 10/10" bullshit). Andromeda was always going to be compared to the Trilogy and it wasn't an obvious upgrade. I am not trying to directly compare the games, but the problems within those games. If having a bad animation sequence in Andromeda deserves to be dragged out and mentioned in multiple articles trying to prove something about the game. Shouldn't the same issue within another game regardless get the same treatment? Especially if it has very little to do with how the game functions and plays?
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Post by river82 on Dec 22, 2019 22:11:41 GMT
The worst save game bug I found was in Fable 3. Fable 3 had this mechanism where you couldn't save, it would save automatically for you on a SINGLE FILE. So when I found a bug which broke the game, and the game reloaded me to a state after the bug happened, I quit the game and never returned. But Fable got a lot of passes as well for being "innovative" and "breaking the mould". Comparing Andromeda and Jedi Fallen to each other is difficult because they're different games. And actually that's the problem with Andromeda, nobody makes games like Mass Effect and because of this the only games it can really be compared to are the Trilogy games. With other games like this the developers make sure they make improvements - sport games make incremental improvements every year so when it's compared with the previous edition it will be SLIGHTLY better. And games like Skyrim and RDR2 made sure to improve over its predecessors (not hard when Oblivion was shit, but once again "innovative 10/10" bullshit). Andromeda was always going to be compared to the Trilogy and it wasn't an obvious upgrade. I am not trying to directly compare the games, but the problems within those games. If having a bad animation sequence in Andromeda deserves to be dragged out and mentioned in multiple articles trying to prove something about the game. Shouldn't the same issue within another game regardless get the same treatment? Especially if it has very little to do with how the game functions and plays? That tends to depend on a number of different things. The size of the company, the scale of the game, how often there are bad animation sequences. If the bad animation sequences are recurring (and it was recurring in Andromeda) and it's a very large budget game (which it was) then the likelihood of it being mentioned goes up. If a bad animation sequence happens once or twice then maybe it will get a pass. And that's especially true when the games it will get compared to (Mass Effect 3/2) had few bad animation sequences. So people will be like "you may expect a mass effect experience, but the experience will differ for the worse here, here, here, and here."
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,900 Likes: 8,927
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8,927
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,900
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 23, 2019 3:50:43 GMT
I am not trying to directly compare the games, but the problems within those games. If having a bad animation sequence in Andromeda deserves to be dragged out and mentioned in multiple articles trying to prove something about the game. Shouldn't the same issue within another game regardless get the same treatment? Especially if it has very little to do with how the game functions and plays? That tends to depend on a number of different things. The size of the company, the scale of the game, how often there are bad animation sequences. If the bad animation sequences are recurring (and it was recurring in Andromeda) and it's a very large budget game (which it was) then the likelihood of it being mentioned goes up. If a bad animation sequence happens once or twice then maybe it will get a pass. And that's especially true when the games it will get compared to (Mass Effect 3/2) had few bad animation sequences. So people will be like "you may expect a mass effect experience, but the experience will differ for the worse here, here, here, and here." You seem to be missing my point. I don't care that they talked about the problems in the game, what I want is consistency in the reviews themselves. I don't care that a person disliked the animations in Andromeda, but if there are bad animations in other games I want that to be mentioned by that reviewer as well so I am an informed customer and can trust their judgement. Its not the reviewers job to make excuses to why the product has problems otherwise they should have been making excuses for Andromeda as well.
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Post by river82 on Dec 23, 2019 5:42:30 GMT
That tends to depend on a number of different things. The size of the company, the scale of the game, how often there are bad animation sequences. If the bad animation sequences are recurring (and it was recurring in Andromeda) and it's a very large budget game (which it was) then the likelihood of it being mentioned goes up. If a bad animation sequence happens once or twice then maybe it will get a pass. And that's especially true when the games it will get compared to (Mass Effect 3/2) had few bad animation sequences. So people will be like "you may expect a mass effect experience, but the experience will differ for the worse here, here, here, and here." You seem to be missing my point. I don't care that they talked about the problems in the game, what I want is consistency in the reviews themselves. I don't care that a person disliked the animations in Andromeda, but if there are bad animations in other games I want that to be mentioned by that reviewer as well so I am an informed customer and can trust their judgement. Its not the reviewers job to make excuses to why the product has problems otherwise they should have been making excuses for Andromeda as well. They aren't reporting bad animations in Andromeda, they would have been reporting the frequent bad animations in Andromeda. Bad animations by themselves are not worthy of reporting, it's the context which is important. That the AAA game ME:A was littered with animation problems is worthy of reporting, that another AAA game had a couple of bad animations is not.
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Party like it's 2023!
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August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 23, 2019 8:52:55 GMT
There are some instances where the animation can be so bad that it can yank you right out of the game. There's the awkward expression stuff that can happen here and there, but then there's instances where the character's face literally breaks. It's a really brief instance, but just in your face enough to make you say "Oh god what the fuck is that??" Only goldfish make that face. Fallout 4 is a vastly uglier game overall, with horrifying face models here and there, like Mama "Zombie Jesus" Murphy, but I cannot recall any of the mannequins in that game ever having their faces crack under the weight of drunk puppeteering. BioWare was good enough to go back and patch a lot of face issues. Sadly, this sequence here was not among the things fixed. I'm not even sure if it can be fixed.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
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8,927
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,900
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September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 23, 2019 13:47:24 GMT
Instead of Andromeda lets go to game engines, I do feel like I am just digging my hole deeper here.
So when BioWare releases a new game if there are any problems its instantly labeled to be the problems by Frostbite with no evidence that its true. Especially when looking at EA's release schedule over the last few years. FIFA has been adding more and more RPG elements to their franchise and its nothing like a Battlefield game. Yet any technical problem is "Frostbite" and then the calls for BioWare to abandon Frostbite because its so bad. Then you have a game like Fallen Order (its the only one I know of with this problem) when using Unreal Engine because of inherit I/O issues. Digital Foundry pointed out that Respawn wasn't the first developer to have this problem. So why isn't the conversation then moving around Unreal being bad for games that have to stream large amounts of data? I see things like that in reviews and I don't understand it. If you believe that Frostbite is bad for RPGs, I want examples why and if the problems are the result of the engine why aren't other game engines faults being at the same time used in reviews to demonstrate the problems with that game engine.
It just seems that BioWare games get harsher treatment then other games with problems, the way I remember it Fallout 76 didn't have the same number of articles, reviews, think pieces, etc. talking about how bad the game is. Now it did have its fair share, but it didn't come across with multiple articles every day overlapping themselves. When talking about the problems in a game it just seems that there are more deep dives and finger pointing when it comes to BioWare. I know a few reviews I looked at for Fallen Order were called out by readers about how they didn't talk about the issues that "everyone" was having while giving it constant praise. Of course its all subjective and not every website will do it, but I know the amount of places I visit has gone down dramatically over the last five years or so because the reviews don't seem to be accurate to the game, but to the internet opinion around the game.
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Party like it's 2023!
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August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 23, 2019 17:47:39 GMT
Instead of Andromeda lets go to game engines, I do feel like I am just digging my hole deeper here. So when BioWare releases a new game if there are any problems its instantly labeled to be the problems by Frostbite with no evidence that its true. Especially when looking at EA's release schedule over the last few years. FIFA has been adding more and more RPG elements to their franchise and its nothing like a Battlefield game. Yet any technical problem is "Frostbite" and then the calls for BioWare to abandon Frostbite because its so bad. Then you have a game like Fallen Order (its the only one I know of with this problem) when using Unreal Engine because of inherit I/O issues. Digital Foundry pointed out that Respawn wasn't the first developer to have this problem. So why isn't the conversation then moving around Unreal being bad for games that have to stream large amounts of data? I see things like that in reviews and I don't understand it. If you believe that Frostbite is bad for RPGs, I want examples why and if the problems are the result of the engine why aren't other game engines faults being at the same time used in reviews to demonstrate the problems with that game engine. It just seems that BioWare games get harsher treatment then other games with problems, the way I remember it Fallout 76 didn't have the same number of articles, reviews, think pieces, etc. talking about how bad the game is. Now it did have its fair share, but it didn't come across with multiple articles every day overlapping themselves. When talking about the problems in a game it just seems that there are more deep dives and finger pointing when it comes to BioWare. I know a few reviews I looked at for Fallen Order were called out by readers about how they didn't talk about the issues that "everyone" was having while giving it constant praise. Of course its all subjective and not every website will do it, but I know the amount of places I visit has gone down dramatically over the last five years or so because the reviews don't seem to be accurate to the game, but to the internet opinion around the game. Honestly, I never thought Frostbite was that much of an issue. It was clear though that mismanagement of time or resources or something really caused what ended up feeling like an incomplete product on release. Basic textures that even pre Frostbite Mass Effect and Dragon Age games had weren't there. I was so glad they finally updated the game to include those things, as well as finally patching certain animation sequences. That said, I have no problem with BioWare simply sticking with Frostbite. Say what one will about Anthem, but environments and character models look beautiful. Content wise, the game is anemic, but in terms of its graphical quality, character animation and gameplay, it's all very top notch. If Dragon Age can pull off this same effect (in third person view for the love of god), then I'm all for it. I guess much of its issue was the high expectations. A game like Fallout 76 might have gotten lots of fanfare from Bethesda diehards, but I remember also seeing a lot of apprehension and disapproval from people who saw what looked like an asset flip resold as a basic looter shooter. I'm quite certain that if the exact situation were to happen to Mass Effect, it would be a neverending gnashing of teeth and cries to have Bio execs tried at the Hague for their war crimes, especially if it was like the current situation with players potentially having their entire inventories ransacked by hackers in an upcoming (or possibly live now) update. I look forward to seeing the carnage. It's become a bit of a morbid fetish.
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Post by river82 on Dec 23, 2019 20:29:17 GMT
Instead of Andromeda lets go to game engines, I do feel like I am just digging my hole deeper here. So when BioWare releases a new game if there are any problems its instantly labeled to be the problems by Frostbite with no evidence that its true. Especially when looking at EA's release schedule over the last few years. FIFA has been adding more and more RPG elements to their franchise and its nothing like a Battlefield game. Yet any technical problem is "Frostbite" and then the calls for BioWare to abandon Frostbite because its so bad. Then you have a game like Fallen Order (its the only one I know of with this problem) when using Unreal Engine because of inherit I/O issues. Digital Foundry pointed out that Respawn wasn't the first developer to have this problem. So why isn't the conversation then moving around Unreal being bad for games that have to stream large amounts of data? I see things like that in reviews and I don't understand it. If you believe that Frostbite is bad for RPGs, I want examples why and if the problems are the result of the engine why aren't other game engines faults being at the same time used in reviews to demonstrate the problems with that game engine. I don't understand this need for people to defend Frostbite. When beloved developer, Amy Hennig, came straight out and said it was a problem and implied it was one of the reasons Visceral closed down, then ... it's a problem. But what that meant is we obviously had to take the Frostbite Engine, because there was the internal initiative to make sure that everybody was on the same technology, but it was an engine that was made to do first-person shooters not third-person traversal cinematic games," Hennig said.
"So building all of that third-person platforming and climbing and cover taking and all that stuff into an engine that wasn't made to do that. We did a lot of foundational work that I think the teams are still benefiting from because it's a shared engine, but it's tough when you spend a lot of time doing foundational stuff but then don't get to go ta-da! [laughs] You know, here's the game."
That sentiment was echoed by other Visceral alumni after Ragtag and Visceral were publicly no more. The size and scope of the project, not just from what would be required to ship the product but the amount of work that was going into the Frostbite engine to make it all possible, ballooned the cost of development beyond all reason. One staffer estimated the game would have cost almost $140 million (approx $US100 million), which made little sense for a singleplayer only game, with a planned multiplayer mode shelved back in 2015.
www.kotaku.com.au/2019/02/amy-hennig-talks-more-about-struggling-with-eas-frostbite-engine/Same thing happened with Andromeda and Inquisition. Obviously with the work they've already put into the engine it will be easier to make RPGs moving forward, but it was obviously a reason why they couldn't spend as much time on the actual Andromeda game that they wanted to. Once again when you say the Unreal Engine has "I/O problems", that problem is so insignificant in comparison it isn't even worth mentioning. Microstutters that the developer can fix pretty quickly (relatively speaking)? The two problems aren't even in the same universe.
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Post by river82 on Dec 23, 2019 20:41:32 GMT
I guess much of its issue was the high expectations. A game like Fallout 76 might have gotten lots of fanfare from Bethesda diehards, but I remember also seeing a lot of apprehension and disapproval from people who saw what looked like an asset flip resold as a basic looter shooter. I'm quite certain that if the exact situation were to happen to Mass Effect, it would be a neverending gnashing of teeth and cries to have Bio execs tried at the Hague for their war crimes, especially if it was like the current situation with players potentially having their entire inventories ransacked by hackers in an upcoming (or possibly live now) update. I look forward to seeing the carnage. It's become a bit of a morbid fetish. They got hammered so hard for the "no NPC" thing, lol. Fallout 76 gets a lot of flak. I'm going to go out on a limb and say some of it isn't deserved. Fallout 76 is a sandbox game, and true sandbox games are not very popular because it calls on the audience to create their own enjoyment. People then go "OH NOES! THAT SUCKS! I want my enjoyment gift wrapped and handed to me!" The problem with sandbox games are that a lot of time they're boring. That being said the heights of entertainment you can reach are generally higher. That dude who built the "deathclaw maze" or the "human oven" and lured people inside, you can't do that with a themepark online game. The problem with Fallout 76 is that it's not sandboxy enough. But online sandboxes are rare today, good ones anyway. People go online and ask "any good online sandboxes" and 50 people will recommend Eve If people went into Fallout 76 thinking it was a looter shooter, then they were playing the game wrong
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,900 Likes: 8,927
inherit
1561
0
8,927
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,900
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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882
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 23, 2019 21:04:42 GMT
Instead of Andromeda lets go to game engines, I do feel like I am just digging my hole deeper here. So when BioWare releases a new game if there are any problems its instantly labeled to be the problems by Frostbite with no evidence that its true. Especially when looking at EA's release schedule over the last few years. FIFA has been adding more and more RPG elements to their franchise and its nothing like a Battlefield game. Yet any technical problem is "Frostbite" and then the calls for BioWare to abandon Frostbite because its so bad. Then you have a game like Fallen Order (its the only one I know of with this problem) when using Unreal Engine because of inherit I/O issues. Digital Foundry pointed out that Respawn wasn't the first developer to have this problem. So why isn't the conversation then moving around Unreal being bad for games that have to stream large amounts of data? I see things like that in reviews and I don't understand it. If you believe that Frostbite is bad for RPGs, I want examples why and if the problems are the result of the engine why aren't other game engines faults being at the same time used in reviews to demonstrate the problems with that game engine. It just seems that BioWare games get harsher treatment then other games with problems, the way I remember it Fallout 76 didn't have the same number of articles, reviews, think pieces, etc. talking about how bad the game is. Now it did have its fair share, but it didn't come across with multiple articles every day overlapping themselves. When talking about the problems in a game it just seems that there are more deep dives and finger pointing when it comes to BioWare. I know a few reviews I looked at for Fallen Order were called out by readers about how they didn't talk about the issues that "everyone" was having while giving it constant praise. Of course its all subjective and not every website will do it, but I know the amount of places I visit has gone down dramatically over the last five years or so because the reviews don't seem to be accurate to the game, but to the internet opinion around the game. Honestly, I never thought Frostbite was that much of an issue. It was clear though that mismanagement of time or resources or something really caused what ended up feeling like an incomplete product on release. Basic textures that even pre Frostbite Mass Effect and Dragon Age games had weren't there. I was so glad they finally updated the game to include those things, as well as finally patching certain animation sequences. That said, I have no problem with BioWare simply sticking with Frostbite. Say what one will about Anthem, but environments and character models look beautiful. Content wise, the game is anemic, but in terms of its graphical quality, character animation and gameplay, it's all very top notch. If Dragon Age can pull off this same effect (in third person view for the love of god), then I'm all for it. I guess much of its issue was the high expectations. A game like Fallout 76 might have gotten lots of fanfare from Bethesda diehards, but I remember also seeing a lot of apprehension and disapproval from people who saw what looked like an asset flip resold as a basic looter shooter. I'm quite certain that if the exact situation were to happen to Mass Effect, it would be a neverending gnashing of teeth and cries to have Bio execs tried at the Hague for their war crimes, especially if it was like the current situation with players potentially having their entire inventories ransacked by hackers in an upcoming (or possibly live now) update. I look forward to seeing the carnage. It's become a bit of a morbid fetish. I see a lot of people that do blame Frostbite for the problems in the last three BioWare games, but I don't see it either and a lot of the places that write articles that do blame it I have stopped following. I do agree with bad management especially with Andromeda and its why I believe the studio was doomed before Andromeda even shipped because the leadership there made so many mistakes. The only thing I would say is the fault of Frostbite, but the blame lies on management is the procedural content rumors. If the reports were right they had people working on getting procedural content working for a lot longer then they should have, but due to being a pet function of the leadership team (my opinion) they never stopped when they should and Frostbite was never designed to generate content like that. The interesting thing about the development cycle is that I am surprised more people didn't lose their jobs at BioWare Montreal when they cut themselves off from BioWare Edmonton if you believe the reports. So in reality BioWare only has two games of real development on Frostbite the Inquisition/Andromeda entry because Montreal wanted to do their own thing and then Anthem so with BioWare Edmonton they took what they learned from Inquisition and then applied that to Anthem. I think BioWare is in a very good place and if the reports again are true one of the reasons why they started over with the next Dragon Age game was because they decided to take the version of Frostbite they were using with Anthem and work from there instead of something between Inquisition and Anthem. If BioWare was to go to another game engine they would be starting from scratch again building all the tools and modules they would need for the game to work instead of using all the work they have developed on Frostbite over the last few years. With your assessment of expectations I think is in the right ballpark. You see it all the time when people are making comparisons with even Andromeda and the prior trilogy. You see them comparing the companions from one game in the Andromeda series to what developed over three games in the Shepard series. Its not a fair comparison, but you can understand the human nature in how they got there.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Posts: 5,900 Likes: 8,927
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1561
0
8,927
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
5,900
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September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 23, 2019 21:21:32 GMT
Instead of Andromeda lets go to game engines, I do feel like I am just digging my hole deeper here. So when BioWare releases a new game if there are any problems its instantly labeled to be the problems by Frostbite with no evidence that its true. Especially when looking at EA's release schedule over the last few years. FIFA has been adding more and more RPG elements to their franchise and its nothing like a Battlefield game. Yet any technical problem is "Frostbite" and then the calls for BioWare to abandon Frostbite because its so bad. Then you have a game like Fallen Order (its the only one I know of with this problem) when using Unreal Engine because of inherit I/O issues. Digital Foundry pointed out that Respawn wasn't the first developer to have this problem. So why isn't the conversation then moving around Unreal being bad for games that have to stream large amounts of data? I see things like that in reviews and I don't understand it. If you believe that Frostbite is bad for RPGs, I want examples why and if the problems are the result of the engine why aren't other game engines faults being at the same time used in reviews to demonstrate the problems with that game engine. I don't understand this need for people to defend Frostbite. When beloved developer, Amy Hennig, came straight out and said it was a problem and implied it was one of the reasons Visceral closed down, then ... it's a problem. But what that meant is we obviously had to take the Frostbite Engine, because there was the internal initiative to make sure that everybody was on the same technology, but it was an engine that was made to do first-person shooters not third-person traversal cinematic games," Hennig said.
"So building all of that third-person platforming and climbing and cover taking and all that stuff into an engine that wasn't made to do that. We did a lot of foundational work that I think the teams are still benefiting from because it's a shared engine, but it's tough when you spend a lot of time doing foundational stuff but then don't get to go ta-da! [laughs] You know, here's the game."
That sentiment was echoed by other Visceral alumni after Ragtag and Visceral were publicly no more. The size and scope of the project, not just from what would be required to ship the product but the amount of work that was going into the Frostbite engine to make it all possible, ballooned the cost of development beyond all reason. One staffer estimated the game would have cost almost $140 million (approx $US100 million), which made little sense for a singleplayer only game, with a planned multiplayer mode shelved back in 2015.
www.kotaku.com.au/2019/02/amy-hennig-talks-more-about-struggling-with-eas-frostbite-engine/Same thing happened with Andromeda and Inquisition. Obviously with the work they've already put into the engine it will be easier to make RPGs moving forward, but it was obviously a reason why they couldn't spend as much time on the actual Andromeda game that they wanted to. Once again when you say the Unreal Engine has "I/O problems", that problem is so insignificant in comparison it isn't even worth mentioning. Microstutters that the developer can fix pretty quickly (relatively speaking)? The two problems aren't even in the same universe. Here is another Kotaku article quote. SourceIn that one they are putting blame on her as well for the collapse of the game with multiple other factors and not just Frostbite. I would also place mismanagement there as well for they made the scope of the game too big for what they knew was their budget with again she is the leader of the product. Then you have the opposite argument that EA hasn't forced developers to use Frostbite which was shown by Respawn using Unreal. The I/O problems with Unreal are not insignificant especially at launch when players are making claims they lost interest in the game because of how long it takes to reload the game with people clocking it to be a minute and with how often you can die it adds up.
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Post by river82 on Dec 23, 2019 21:27:45 GMT
In that one they are putting blame on her as well for the collapse of the game with multiple other factors and not just Frostbite. I would also place mismanagement there as well for they made the scope of the game too big for what they knew was their budget with again she is the leader of the product. Then you have the opposite argument that EA hasn't forced developers to use Frostbite which was shown by Respawn using Unreal. The I/O problems with Unreal are not insignificant especially at launch when players are making claims they lost interest in the game because of how long it takes to reload the game with people clocking it to be a minute and with how often you can die it adds up. Never said it was 'just Frostbite', what I said was it was obviously 'a problem'. Which it was. A project can be mismanaged and have also lost huge amounts of time and money working on the Frostbyte engine. Also can you source a developer who no longer has any ties with EA who said "EA didn't force us to use Frostbyte". I'm not talking about the developers still working for EA and therefore have to be mindful of what they say, can you source one who no longer has any ties to EA who said that. At the time Bioware made Andromeda. Initiatives change and what may be true for Respawn in 2019 is not to say the same for Bioware and Visceral in 2016 Reloading a game taking a long time? That's not unique to the Unreal Engine. Whenever people mentioned loading screens as a problem with Anthem I believe some people answered "get an SSD". Which seems to be the common answer to loading screens these days.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 23, 2019 22:01:01 GMT
In that one they are putting blame on her as well for the collapse of the game with multiple other factors and not just Frostbite. I would also place mismanagement there as well for they made the scope of the game too big for what they knew was their budget with again she is the leader of the product. Then you have the opposite argument that EA hasn't forced developers to use Frostbite which was shown by Respawn using Unreal. The I/O problems with Unreal are not insignificant especially at launch when players are making claims they lost interest in the game because of how long it takes to reload the game with people clocking it to be a minute and with how often you can die it adds up. Never said it was 'just Frostbite', what I said was it was obviously 'a problem'. Which it was. A project can be mismanaged and have also lost huge amounts of time and money working on the Frostbyte engine. Also can you source a developer who no longer has any ties with EA who said "EA didn't force us to use Frostbyte". I'm not talking about the developers still working for EA and therefore have to be mindful of what they say, can you source one who no longer has any ties to EA who said that. At the time Bioware made Andromeda. Initiatives change and what may be true for Respawn in 2019 is not to say the same for Bioware and Visceral in 2016 Reloading a game taking a long time? That's not unique to the Unreal Engine. Whenever people mentioned loading screens as a problem with Anthem I believe some people answered "get an SSD". Which seems to be the common answer to loading screens these days. Just because she no longer works at EA doesn't mean her word is any better then those that work there for it could be just as easily implied she has a bias against EA because they canned her project and she made it well know working on Star Wars was a dream project. So if you want a clean unbiased opinion its impossible for either argument. If the load times were universal in Fallen Order it would be one thing, but its when transitioning between zones when having to dump things out of memory and then reload. So when you die you have the time to unload and reload the assets to where you saved and then walk a short distance and then dump and reload all those assets again. The times it was the worst for me weren't hidden behind a loading screen. It was 5-10 seconds where the game would just freeze as it was trying to load texture for where you are moving to and it would be constant if you are climbing up it would freeze so it could load in the graphics you see or you quickly turn around a corner and again freezing while loading those textures. If Andromeda did that as regularly I would be upset at it as well. Edit: Just to add I did find one from Aaryn Flynn sitting down with Kotaku post-EA. InterviewThis is a quote from the interview. He also mentioned EA didn't force it on them, but they were looking at the number of studios going that way and frankly with the number of diverse titles at EA it seems BioWare is pretty alone when it comes to issues for you have FIFA, Mirror's Edge, Madden, and others and you don't see those studios having the same problems and I cannot see how a Soccer game like FIFA wouldn't have issues if Frostbite was the problem since its only good for shooters and BioWare has the problems alone.
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Post by river82 on Dec 23, 2019 22:11:47 GMT
Never said it was 'just Frostbite', what I said was it was obviously 'a problem'. Which it was. A project can be mismanaged and have also lost huge amounts of time and money working on the Frostbyte engine. Also can you source a developer who no longer has any ties with EA who said "EA didn't force us to use Frostbyte". I'm not talking about the developers still working for EA and therefore have to be mindful of what they say, can you source one who no longer has any ties to EA who said that. At the time Bioware made Andromeda. Initiatives change and what may be true for Respawn in 2019 is not to say the same for Bioware and Visceral in 2016 Reloading a game taking a long time? That's not unique to the Unreal Engine. Whenever people mentioned loading screens as a problem with Anthem I believe some people answered "get an SSD". Which seems to be the common answer to loading screens these days. Just because she no longer works at EA doesn't mean her word is any better then those that work there for it could be just as easily implied she has a bias against EA because they canned her project and she made it well know working on Star Wars was a dream project. So if you want a clean unbiased opinion its impossible for either argument. If the load times were universal in Fallen Order it would be one thing, but its when transitioning between zones when having to dump things out of memory and then reload. So when you die you have the time to unload and reload the assets to where you saved and then walk a short distance and then dump and reload all those assets again. The times it was the worst for me weren't hidden behind a loading screen. It was 5-10 seconds where the game would just freeze as it was trying to load texture for where you are moving to and it would be constant if you are climbing up it would freeze so it could load in the graphics you see or you quickly turn around a corner and again freezing while loading those textures. If Andromeda did that as regularly I would be upset at it as well. Well, if EA had forced Bioware to implement Frostbyte it would have been a mark against EA and not Bioware. I was giving Bioware the benefit of the doubt. But if it was Bioware's own decision then they have to own the consequences of that decision, which is it was part of what led to Andromeda being what it was. The load times and texture problems were patched by Respawn a few days after launch. That's what I meant by "it's relatively easily fixed". The Frostbyte decision tanked huge amounts of money and time in development, both was desperately needed on a game with a clearly troubled development cycle. With Unreal Respawn made a great game with some technical problems, with Andromeda the engine clearly helped prevent the developers to ship a great game.
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 23, 2019 22:20:30 GMT
Just because she no longer works at EA doesn't mean her word is any better then those that work there for it could be just as easily implied she has a bias against EA because they canned her project and she made it well know working on Star Wars was a dream project. So if you want a clean unbiased opinion its impossible for either argument. If the load times were universal in Fallen Order it would be one thing, but its when transitioning between zones when having to dump things out of memory and then reload. So when you die you have the time to unload and reload the assets to where you saved and then walk a short distance and then dump and reload all those assets again. The times it was the worst for me weren't hidden behind a loading screen. It was 5-10 seconds where the game would just freeze as it was trying to load texture for where you are moving to and it would be constant if you are climbing up it would freeze so it could load in the graphics you see or you quickly turn around a corner and again freezing while loading those textures. If Andromeda did that as regularly I would be upset at it as well. Well, if EA had forced Bioware to implement Frostbyte it would have been a mark against EA and not Bioware. I was giving Bioware the benefit of the doubt. But if it was Bioware's own decision then they have to own the consequences of that decision, which is it was part of what led to Andromeda being what it was. The load times and texture problems were patched by Respawn a few days after launch. That's what I meant by "it's relatively easily fixed". The Frostbyte decision tanked huge amounts of money and time in development, both was desperately needed on a game with a clearly troubled development cycle. With Unreal Respawn made a great game with some technical problems, with Andromeda the engine clearly helped prevent the developers to ship a great game. I think the problems with Andromeda were more leadership then engine, but maybe I am alone in that thinking. It was bad decisions that were made where to stop and not stop working on content and being bluntly honest I am surprised some of the leadership was there as along as they were. I will never say that the reports of Frostbite potentially being harder then the other engines to get the base tools working are unfounded, but I think once those tools and established its not that much worse. I think BioWare Edmonton did a good job with Inquisition being their first game with Frostbite, but I think Montreal made many key mistakes such as cutting communication with Edmonton because they felt they were being told what to do. The step from Inquisition to Anthem engine wise I think shows that BioWare has gotten a handle on the engine for my problems were not in that route. I am still having those load time issues with Fallen Order, I think they might have dropped by a second or two, but the game still locks up when I get to the top of climbing a wall as it loads more textures and I am using a SSD M.2 drive while using a RTX 2070 so its not a potato.
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Post by river82 on Dec 23, 2019 22:40:31 GMT
I am still having those load time issues with Fallen Order, I think they might have dropped by a second or two, but the game still locks up when I get to the top of climbing a wall as it loads more textures and I am using a SSD M.2 drive while using a RTX 2070 so its not a potato. You've got a better graphics card then I'm using 0.0. One day I might try Jedi Fallen Order. To me, watching others play the game, it kinda looks like an Uncharted game with Sekiro combat and a Star Wars skin. Probably why it wasn't nominated at the Games Awards When I want to play a Star Wars game I want to look at it and feel like a Star Wars game. Feel your pain though. I really liked RDR, the first one, but whenever I played it on my XBox 360 it would crash every 5 minutes. It was literally unplayable for me. Everyone else was having a blast though ...
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Dec 26, 2019 11:34:04 GMT
I see it as possibly bad too.
Spider-Man PS4 is bad in the sense that it proves to Sony that contracting a license to MCU characters pays off better than creating icons for video games.
Star Wars getting good rep might also cause EA to believe the future lies in license deals and outphasing of "toxic franchises" like Mass Effect.
Although, ironic because Star Wars got its "ME3 ending" level of toxic fandom too, now. All it took was the golden age of social media and an increasingly corporate leadership to a franchise. It's funny how similar the two fallouts are.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 26, 2019 12:38:59 GMT
Honestly, I never thought Frostbite was that much of an issue. It was clear though that mismanagement of time or resources or something really caused what ended up feeling like an incomplete product on release. Basic textures that even pre Frostbite Mass Effect and Dragon Age games had weren't there. I was so glad they finally updated the game to include those things, as well as finally patching certain animation sequences. That said, I have no problem with BioWare simply sticking with Frostbite. Say what one will about Anthem, but environments and character models look beautiful. Content wise, the game is anemic, but in terms of its graphical quality, character animation and gameplay, it's all very top notch. If Dragon Age can pull off this same effect (in third person view for the love of god), then I'm all for it. I guess much of its issue was the high expectations. A game like Fallout 76 might have gotten lots of fanfare from Bethesda diehards, but I remember also seeing a lot of apprehension and disapproval from people who saw what looked like an asset flip resold as a basic looter shooter. I'm quite certain that if the exact situation were to happen to Mass Effect, it would be a neverending gnashing of teeth and cries to have Bio execs tried at the Hague for their war crimes, especially if it was like the current situation with players potentially having their entire inventories ransacked by hackers in an upcoming (or possibly live now) update. I look forward to seeing the carnage. It's become a bit of a morbid fetish. I see a lot of people that do blame Frostbite for the problems in the last three BioWare games, but I don't see it either and a lot of the places that write articles that do blame it I have stopped following. I do agree with bad management especially with Andromeda and its why I believe the studio was doomed before Andromeda even shipped because the leadership there made so many mistakes. The only thing I would say is the fault of Frostbite, but the blame lies on management is the procedural content rumors. If the reports were right they had people working on getting procedural content working for a lot longer then they should have, but due to being a pet function of the leadership team (my opinion) they never stopped when they should and Frostbite was never designed to generate content like that. The interesting thing about the development cycle is that I am surprised more people didn't lose their jobs at BioWare Montreal when they cut themselves off from BioWare Edmonton if you believe the reports. So in reality BioWare only has two games of real development on Frostbite the Inquisition/Andromeda entry because Montreal wanted to do their own thing and then Anthem so with BioWare Edmonton they took what they learned from Inquisition and then applied that to Anthem. I think BioWare is in a very good place and if the reports again are true one of the reasons why they started over with the next Dragon Age game was because they decided to take the version of Frostbite they were using with Anthem and work from there instead of something between Inquisition and Anthem. If BioWare was to go to another game engine they would be starting from scratch again building all the tools and modules they would need for the game to work instead of using all the work they have developed on Frostbite over the last few years. With your assessment of expectations I think is in the right ballpark. You see it all the time when people are making comparisons with even Andromeda and the prior trilogy. You see them comparing the companions from one game in the Andromeda series to what developed over three games in the Shepard series. Its not a fair comparison, but you can understand the human nature in how they got there. Yeah for me it was bad mawnagement that cost Andromeda not the engine lets not forget that DAI was buil ton the same engin eand won game of the year to achieve something lik ethat level of quality(doesn't matter what year) at your first attempt tells me it can work if you manage the project right. Frostbite may not have been the easiest to use but now they've figured out how to build their games on it it should be a lot easier here on in. The first games on any new engine are always going to be th most difficult until you get to grips with them. It doesn't matter which engine yo uuse it'll always start of tricky whilst you'er building up the mechanics for your game. For me I think Bioware got a bit lucky with MEA because despite the issues with the mismanagement it still a tleast for me turned out to be a half decent game and is still vrey playable. All we can do is hope there aren't any slip ups with DA4.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 26, 2019 13:02:45 GMT
Never said it was 'just Frostbite', what I said was it was obviously 'a problem'. Which it was. A project can be mismanaged and have also lost huge amounts of time and money working on the Frostbyte engine. Also can you source a developer who no longer has any ties with EA who said "EA didn't force us to use Frostbyte". I'm not talking about the developers still working for EA and therefore have to be mindful of what they say, can you source one who no longer has any ties to EA who said that. At the time Bioware made Andromeda. Initiatives change and what may be true for Respawn in 2019 is not to say the same for Bioware and Visceral in 2016 Reloading a game taking a long time? That's not unique to the Unreal Engine. Whenever people mentioned loading screens as a problem with Anthem I believe some people answered "get an SSD". Which seems to be the common answer to loading screens these days. Just because she no longer works at EA doesn't mean her word is any better then those that work there for it could be just as easily implied she has a bias against EA because they canned her project and she made it well know working on Star Wars was a dream project. So if you want a clean unbiased opinion its impossible for either argument. If the load times were universal in Fallen Order it would be one thing, but its when transitioning between zones when having to dump things out of memory and then reload. So when you die you have the time to unload and reload the assets to where you saved and then walk a short distance and then dump and reload all those assets again. The times it was the worst for me weren't hidden behind a loading screen. It was 5-10 seconds where the game would just freeze as it was trying to load texture for where you are moving to and it would be constant if you are climbing up it would freeze so it could load in the graphics you see or you quickly turn around a corner and again freezing while loading those textures. If Andromeda did that as regularly I would be upset at it as well. Edit: Just to add I did find one from Aaryn Flynn sitting down with Kotaku post-EA. InterviewThis is a quote from the interview. He also mentioned EA didn't force it on them, but they were looking at the number of studios going that way and frankly with the number of diverse titles at EA it seems BioWare is pretty alone when it comes to issues for you have FIFA, Mirror's Edge, Madden, and others and you don't see those studios having the same problems and I cannot see how a Soccer game like FIFA wouldn't have issues if Frostbite was the problem since its only good for shooters and BioWare has the problems alone. Yeah Fifa doesn't have an yproblems running on Frostbite and in fact moving over to Frostbite I think has been a mostly positive move for Fifa because thanks to the work that Bioware had already done on the engine it allowed Fifa to add something new to the game as well in the story modes like the Journey where we get to play as Alex Hunter as he turns from a schoolboy to a fully professional footballer who ends up competing for the Champions League over the course of it's 3 seasons. It's one of the main reasons why I still enjoy playing Fifa's 17-19 as not only is it fun it's a well told story I think based on what I know of football (or soccer as you guys in the US call it) I also admit I kind of like the changes they've made to career mode this year in Fifa 20 on the game though I haven't got round to playing it much but I like th eidea of being able to add a bit of personality and the abilityto create your own manager avatar as well as i tdefinitely lends something to a bit of a roleplaying aspect if you catch my meaning.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 26, 2019 13:04:59 GMT
I see it as possibly bad too. Spider-Man PS4 is bad in the sense that it proves to Sony that contracting a license to MCU characters pays off better than creating icons for video games. Star Wars getting good rep might also cause EA to believe the future lies in license deals and outphasing of "toxic franchises" like Mass Effect. Although, ironic because Star Wars got its "ME3 ending" level of toxic fandom too, now. All it took was the golden age of social media and an increasingly corporate leadership to a franchise. It's funny how similar the two fallouts are. EA has been so deep in licensing for so many years I don't think they would shelf their own licenses for just making licensed properties since they know both the positves and negatives. I think what it will have done is made EA not want to just give back the license IP due to know there is something they can make that will get decent reviews. Its all about the percentage risk at the end of the day and it wouldn't be just Fallen Order that is put into that equation it would be any of the Star Wars games EA has made or attempted to make like the one that was canceled that started at Visceral. How much money it costs to make, how much of a percentage they still give Disney, how much overall did the game make for EA, what it might be is how they can use the success to improve one of their own IPs so they make more profit off the same idea. Such has having Respawn make a game like Fallen Order for the Titanfall franchise.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Dec 26, 2019 15:05:47 GMT
There are some instances where the animation can be so bad that it can yank you right out of the game. There's the awkward expression stuff that can happen here and there, but then there's instances where the character's face literally breaks. It's a really brief instance, but just in your face enough to make you say "Oh god what the fuck is that??" Only goldfish make that face. Fallout 4 is a vastly uglier game overall, with horrifying face models here and there, like Mama "Zombie Jesus" Murphy, but I cannot recall any of the mannequins in that game ever having their faces crack under the weight of drunk puppeteering. BioWare was good enough to go back and patch a lot of face issues. Sadly, this sequence here was not among the things fixed. I'm not even sure if it can be fixed.
Honestly for me it's not the face that is problem for me it's the guns.
In BOTH ME3 and MEA have this problem with guns in cutscenes. I just got through the Exaltation base on Voeld with Peebee and Jaal in my party Peebee used 3 different guns the Sidewinder pistol (which I think is her main gun), Avenger AR, and a shotgun that she pointed at the Cardinal. The Avenger AR would sometimes pop up instead of the Sidewinder when trying to get save the Moshae sometimes you can see the Avenger AR on her back but she never uses it in combat, and the shotgun she pulls out of nowhere. Peebee isn't the only one character with this problem Liam also has this same problem on Habitat 7 at the start of the game, in some cutscenes he's holding the Charger SMG, the Avenger AR, The X5 Ghost AR, and a shotgun. In his case this is a problem because there is no rhyme or reason why he's using one gun in combat and holding different guns in different cutscenes.
There is a similar problem with Shepard in ME3 using what I jokingly refer to as the starter set mostly holding the Avenger AR or the pistol Anderson gives her in cutscenes with another rifle and pistol on her back and hip. This happens all the time even if you have Shepard not equip any AR or pistol.
And this happens ALL THE DAMN TIME IN BOTH GAMES (and you can't blame it on the Frostbite engine since ME3 used a different engine), I find that more annoying/immersion breaking that a stupid looking face that is shown in one cutscene for a few seconds.
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legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Dec 26, 2019 15:31:35 GMT
There are some instances where the animation can be so bad that it can yank you right out of the game. There's the awkward expression stuff that can happen here and there, but then there's instances where the character's face literally breaks. It's a really brief instance, but just in your face enough to make you say "Oh god what the fuck is that??" Only goldfish make that face. Fallout 4 is a vastly uglier game overall, with horrifying face models here and there, like Mama "Zombie Jesus" Murphy, but I cannot recall any of the mannequins in that game ever having their faces crack under the weight of drunk puppeteering. BioWare was good enough to go back and patch a lot of face issues. Sadly, this sequence here was not among the things fixed. I'm not even sure if it can be fixed.
Honestly for me it's not the face that is problem for me it's the guns.
In BOTH ME3 and MEA have this problem with guns in cutscenes. I just got through the Exaltation base on Voeld with Peebee and Jaal in my party Peebee used 3 different guns the Sidewinder pistol (which I think is her main gun), Avenger AR, and a shotgun that she pointed at the Cardinal. The Avenger AR would sometimes pop up instead of the Sidewinder when trying to get save the Moshae sometimes you can see the Avenger AR on her back but she never uses it in combat, and the shotgun she pulls out of nowhere. Peebee isn't the only one character with this problem Liam also has this same problem on Habitat 7 at the start of the game, in some cutscenes he's holding the Charger SMG, the Avenger AR, The X5 Ghost AR, and a shotgun. In his case this is a problem because there is no rhyme or reason why he's using one gun in combat and holding different guns in different cutscenes.
There is a similar problem with Shepard in ME3 using what I jokingly refer to as the starter set mostly holding the Avenger AR or the pistol Anderson gives her in cutscenes with another rifle and pistol on her back and hip. This happens all the time even if you have Shepard not equip any AR or pistol.
And this happens ALL THE DAMN TIME IN BOTH GAMES (and you can't blame it on the Frostbite engine since ME3 used a different engine), I find that more annoying/immersion breaking that a stupid looking face that is shown in one cutscene for a few seconds.
BTW I dont remember getting that face or then I just dont see it/ignore, where it happens? On ME3 I seem to remember they ran out of memory on ... again X360/PS3 to blaim, to do various things.
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sjsharp2010
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sjsharp2010
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 26, 2019 20:27:43 GMT
Honestly for me it's not the face that is problem for me it's the guns.
In BOTH ME3 and MEA have this problem with guns in cutscenes. I just got through the Exaltation base on Voeld with Peebee and Jaal in my party Peebee used 3 different guns the Sidewinder pistol (which I think is her main gun), Avenger AR, and a shotgun that she pointed at the Cardinal. The Avenger AR would sometimes pop up instead of the Sidewinder when trying to get save the Moshae sometimes you can see the Avenger AR on her back but she never uses it in combat, and the shotgun she pulls out of nowhere. Peebee isn't the only one character with this problem Liam also has this same problem on Habitat 7 at the start of the game, in some cutscenes he's holding the Charger SMG, the Avenger AR, The X5 Ghost AR, and a shotgun. In his case this is a problem because there is no rhyme or reason why he's using one gun in combat and holding different guns in different cutscenes.
There is a similar problem with Shepard in ME3 using what I jokingly refer to as the starter set mostly holding the Avenger AR or the pistol Anderson gives her in cutscenes with another rifle and pistol on her back and hip. This happens all the time even if you have Shepard not equip any AR or pistol.
And this happens ALL THE DAMN TIME IN BOTH GAMES (and you can't blame it on the Frostbite engine since ME3 used a different engine), I find that more annoying/immersion breaking that a stupid looking face that is shown in one cutscene for a few seconds.
BTW I dont remember getting that face or then I just dont see it/ignore, where it happens? On ME3 I seem to remember they ran out of memory on ... again X360/PS3 to blaim, to do various things. Yeah I tend to ignore it as well these days because I ermember the scene and the rest of the scene is pretty awesome one of m yfavouriet segments of the game its the Remnant station(Khi Tesira) where she shouts "SAM NOW!!!" when activating the remnant defences to fight off the Kett so they can escape back to the Tempest. Other than the weird face I kind of find it a good scene really well done for the most part almost movie like. Loved the way that fight went and how they brought the Kett ship down.
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Cyberstrike
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jan 1, 2020 23:24:18 GMT
Honestly for me it's not the face that is problem for me it's the guns.
In BOTH ME3 and MEA have this problem with guns in cutscenes. I just got through the Exaltation base on Voeld with Peebee and Jaal in my party Peebee used 3 different guns the Sidewinder pistol (which I think is her main gun), Avenger AR, and a shotgun that she pointed at the Cardinal. The Avenger AR would sometimes pop up instead of the Sidewinder when trying to get save the Moshae sometimes you can see the Avenger AR on her back but she never uses it in combat, and the shotgun she pulls out of nowhere. Peebee isn't the only one character with this problem Liam also has this same problem on Habitat 7 at the start of the game, in some cutscenes he's holding the Charger SMG, the Avenger AR, The X5 Ghost AR, and a shotgun. In his case this is a problem because there is no rhyme or reason why he's using one gun in combat and holding different guns in different cutscenes.
There is a similar problem with Shepard in ME3 using what I jokingly refer to as the starter set mostly holding the Avenger AR or the pistol Anderson gives her in cutscenes with another rifle and pistol on her back and hip. This happens all the time even if you have Shepard not equip any AR or pistol.
And this happens ALL THE DAMN TIME IN BOTH GAMES (and you can't blame it on the Frostbite engine since ME3 used a different engine), I find that more annoying/immersion breaking that a stupid looking face that is shown in one cutscene for a few seconds.
BTW I dont remember getting that face or then I just dont see it/ignore, where it happens? On ME3 I seem to remember they ran out of memory on ... again X360/PS3 to blaim, to do various things.
Or they just got lazy and complacent with ME3 because they weren't challenging themselves to see if they could find creative solutions to technical limitations, or to paraphrase Nicholas Myer, the director of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, "Limitations are the life blood of creativity."
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