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Post by Blast Processor on Apr 27, 2020 20:21:25 GMT
Witcher 3 was actually the most light of the trilogy in my opinion. XD Haha. Yeah, all the games are depressing but TW3 could also be pretty uplifting at times as well.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 27, 2020 20:55:25 GMT
Witcher 3 was actually the most light of the trilogy in my opinion. XD You're right, it actually is. Partly why I can't get super into the Witcher setting. I just eventually get annoyed by settings where literally everyone in the universe is a douche bag. It makes every choice your given just feel consistently awful. Something horrible is going to happen, no matter what you do. This isn't a bad thing in itself, it can be a refreshing change from games that suffer from the classic Bi-Polar problem of "Goody two shoes" or "Muhahaha mustache twirlingly eeeevvvviiiillll!!!" So a setting like Witcher is great from time to time. I just can't stay and commit to a setting where I hate almost everyone in it lmao.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Apr 27, 2020 21:33:55 GMT
It's ballsy, I'll give them that. But given what they do to established characters and what they're asking of the player, this could be a train wreck.
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 27, 2020 23:13:48 GMT
Witcher 3 was actually the most light of the trilogy in my opinion. XD You're right, it actually is. Partly why I can't get super into the Witcher setting. I just eventually get annoyed by settings where literally everyone in the universe is a douche bag. It makes every choice your given just feel consistently awful. Something horrible is going to happen, no matter what you do. This isn't a bad thing in itself, it can be a refreshing change from games that suffer from the classic Bi-Polar problem of "Goody two shoes" or "Muhahaha mustache twirlingly eeeevvvviiiillll!!!" So a setting like Witcher is great from time to time. I just can't stay and commit to a setting where I hate almost everyone in it lmao. The thing with The Witcher is that it's a very sentimental, very MORAL saga. Because the world is so bleak and horrible, it makes Geralt seem like a saint almost. This contrast is on purpose of course. This "my family and my friends against the evil world out there" pathos is quite cheesy, if you think about it. There is NOTHING bleak about the love between the main characters. It's genuine and deeply moving. It's a fairy tale about making your own family and finding purpose in protecting it. If you find that kind of love, you find happiness no matter how shitty the world is. Geralt makes friends EVERYWHERE he goes. True friends he can rely on. True friends who give their lives saving his little girl and stopping Nilfgaard in the novels. It's a super heroic tale about love and friendship. TLOU was about a man who was so selfish that he'd rather screw the entire world than lose the one person who made him feel good about himself, who kept him from blowing his brains out. TLOU was shocking, sure, because you end up realizing you've been playing a pathetic lying asshole. The ending was EDGY. And I guess if you were a teenager, this sort of evil twist blew your mind. I watched a "movie" of the game and was frankly a bit disappointed after all the hype. I was expecting the central relationship to have more focus, more emotion. More scenes in general. But half of he game the two don't even talk much! I kept waiting and waiting for all those feels to hit me with great scripting. But it never truly came... The best part of the game was actually the beginning. THAT intro was awesome. Heart-breaking. That's how you punch the player in the gut! That said, I did like the ending. I liked that twist. But it wasn't the first time I experienced such an ending, so it would was merely 'one of those endings' for me. Good but not this masterpiece people made it out to be. I was glad I didn't buy it because what I saw of the gameplay was not my cup of tea. As a long movie though it was well done... I might have considered buying the new game. I'm less squeamish about gore now, you see. I haven't read the leak yet. Not sure I want to... I don't mind bleakness - IF there is a point to it, like with The Witcher. The world can be bleak but the characters need to find SOME kind of purpose. I do not like nihilistic stories. If nothing matters, don't bother wasting my time! It's a slogan for depressed people but it's NOT the basis of a good story. "The hero thought nothing mattered until..." is the beginning of a potentially good story. If I want to waste my time with a story that shoots down all redemption and ends in unbearable bleakness, I'll watch the last season of Dexter again, ugh. Worst season of TV ever made btw.
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You'll be peeling goddamn potatoes for the rest of your miserable excuse for a military career!
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Post by General Mahad on Apr 27, 2020 23:33:48 GMT
It's ballsy, I'll give them that. But given what they do to established characters and what they're asking of the player, this could be a train wreck. Oh, you should see the memes coming from THAT one scene, it’s beautiful. You know how memes shaped public opinion for Andromeda? Something tells me we will be seeing a repeat.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 27, 2020 23:54:56 GMT
You're right, it actually is. Partly why I can't get super into the Witcher setting. I just eventually get annoyed by settings where literally everyone in the universe is a douche bag. It makes every choice your given just feel consistently awful. Something horrible is going to happen, no matter what you do. This isn't a bad thing in itself, it can be a refreshing change from games that suffer from the classic Bi-Polar problem of "Goody two shoes" or "Muhahaha mustache twirlingly eeeevvvviiiillll!!!" So a setting like Witcher is great from time to time. I just can't stay and commit to a setting where I hate almost everyone in it lmao. The thing with The Witcher is that it's a very sentimental, very MORAL saga. Because the world is so bleak and horrible, it makes Geralt seem like a saint almost. This contrast is on purpose of course. This "my family and my friends against the evil world out there" pathos is quite cheesy, if you think about it. There is NOTHING bleak about the love between the main characters. It's genuine and deeply moving. It's a fairy tale about making your own family and finding purpose in protecting it. If you find that kind of love, you find happiness no matter how shitty the world is. Geralt makes friends EVERYWHERE he goes. True friends he can rely on. True friends who give their lives saving his little girl and stopping Nilfgaard in the novels. It's a super heroic tale about love and friendship. TLOU was about a man who was so selfish that he'd rather screw the entire world than lose the one person who made him feel good about himself, who kept him from blowing his brains out. TLOU was shocking, sure, because you end up realizing you've been playing a pathetic lying asshole. The ending was EDGY. And I guess if you were a teenager, this sort of evil twist blew your mind. I watched a "movie" of the game and was frankly a bit disappointed after all the hype. I was expecting the central relationship to have more focus, more emotion. More scenes in general. But half of he game the two don't even talk much! I kept waiting and waiting for all those feels to hit me with great scripting. But it never truly came... The best part of the game was actually the beginning. THAT intro was awesome. Heart-breaking. That's how you punch the player in the gut! That said, I did like the ending. I liked that twist. But it wasn't the first time I experienced such an ending, so it would was merely 'one of those endings' for me. Good but not this masterpiece people made it out to be. I was glad I didn't buy it because what I saw of the gameplay was not my cup of tea. As a long movie though it was well done... I might have considered buying the new game. I'm less squeamish about gore now, you see. I haven't read the leak yet. Not sure I want to... I don't mind bleakness - IF there is a point to it, like with The Witcher. The world can be bleak but the characters need to find SOME kind of purpose. I do not like nihilistic stories. If nothing matters, don't bother wasting my time! It's a slogan for depressed people but it's NOT the basis of a good story. "The hero thought nothing mattered until..." is the beginning of a potentially good story. If I want to waste my time with a story that shoots down all redemption and ends in unbearable bleakness, I'll watch the last season of Dexter again, ugh. Worst season of TV ever made btw. you'll wanna give TLOU 2 a hard pass, trust me. it's about nothing but cold, bloody, merciless revenge, and the endless cycle that it generates. it is the pinnacle of a bleak story with no purpose beyond a message of "revenge is dumb m'kay?" Read if you dare... One of the Surgeons Joel killed had a daughter named Abby and the Firefly massacre destroyed her whole life so she's been looking for revenge ever since. She knew who Elly was because her 'father' talked about their shot at a cure and pieced together that it was Joel based on Fireflies records. You play as Ellie and the game starts a cult attacking her settlement and she, Jesse, and Dinah are part of the group sent to track down and retaliate but Jesse is killed in the process. Ellie then gets pissed and goes on a vendette mission to seattle looking for the cultists home and wipe them all out but she meets Joel there cause he heard about Jesse's death and decided to help. Abby finds Ellie cause she's been in conflict with them as well. So when Abby finds Joel and Ellie as they were trekking to Seattle towards the cultist base, she attacks the both of them and wins. Joel is killed by Abby and Ellie is taken prisoner where Abby then debates on what to do with Ellie as she doesn't blame her for the massacre and yada yada. Ellie though escapes but manages to butcher Abby's group before hand, Abby gets mad and hunts Ellie down in response. You then play as Abby trying to hunt down Ellie for the rest of the game. Abby though eventually catches up with Ellie and kills her but then has a internal debate with herself and concluding that she didn't 'win' since all of her loved ones are still dead. The ending concludes with Ellie's friends now on a hunt to kill Abby. THE END. As far as Witcher goes, yes of course. That family cheese is why I can tolerate the setting at all. It's the one little oasis in an endless desert of black sand.
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Kabraxal
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,004 Likes: 2,731
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kabraxal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Apr 28, 2020 0:22:03 GMT
And people thought Andromeda was a trainwreck... hell even ME3 and that ending wasn’t this much of a dumpster fire. Sad to see Naughty Dog collapse like this.... I so wanted another Jak and Dexter.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 28, 2020 0:37:28 GMT
It just blows my mind, that THIS, is what this damn studio spent the last 6 years on, grinding their employees into dust in the process....I just can't comprehend that.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 28, 2020 0:43:11 GMT
You're right, it actually is. Partly why I can't get super into the Witcher setting. I just eventually get annoyed by settings where literally everyone in the universe is a douche bag. It makes every choice your given just feel consistently awful. Something horrible is going to happen, no matter what you do. This isn't a bad thing in itself, it can be a refreshing change from games that suffer from the classic Bi-Polar problem of "Goody two shoes" or "Muhahaha mustache twirlingly eeeevvvviiiillll!!!" So a setting like Witcher is great from time to time. I just can't stay and commit to a setting where I hate almost everyone in it lmao. The thing with The Witcher is that it's a very sentimental, very MORAL saga. Because the world is so bleak and horrible, it makes Geralt seem like a saint almost. This contrast is on purpose of course. This "my family and my friends against the evil world out there" pathos is quite cheesy, if you think about it. There is NOTHING bleak about the love between the main characters. It's genuine and deeply moving. It's a fairy tale about making your own family and finding purpose in protecting it. If you find that kind of love, you find happiness no matter how shitty the world is. Geralt makes friends EVERYWHERE he goes. True friends he can rely on. True friends who give their lives saving his little girl and stopping Nilfgaard in the novels. It's a super heroic tale about love and friendship. As much as I agree, sometimes The Witcher wallows in its darkness to the point where I don't blame a player for not caring for the game because of that. That being said, I take the Witcher over TLOU any day.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 28, 2020 0:45:44 GMT
The thing with The Witcher is that it's a very sentimental, very MORAL saga. Because the world is so bleak and horrible, it makes Geralt seem like a saint almost. This contrast is on purpose of course. This "my family and my friends against the evil world out there" pathos is quite cheesy, if you think about it. There is NOTHING bleak about the love between the main characters. It's genuine and deeply moving. It's a fairy tale about making your own family and finding purpose in protecting it. If you find that kind of love, you find happiness no matter how shitty the world is. Geralt makes friends EVERYWHERE he goes. True friends he can rely on. True friends who give their lives saving his little girl and stopping Nilfgaard in the novels. It's a super heroic tale about love and friendship. TLOU was about a man who was so selfish that he'd rather screw the entire world than lose the one person who made him feel good about himself, who kept him from blowing his brains out. TLOU was shocking, sure, because you end up realizing you've been playing a pathetic lying asshole. The ending was EDGY. And I guess if you were a teenager, this sort of evil twist blew your mind. I watched a "movie" of the game and was frankly a bit disappointed after all the hype. I was expecting the central relationship to have more focus, more emotion. More scenes in general. But half of he game the two don't even talk much! I kept waiting and waiting for all those feels to hit me with great scripting. But it never truly came... The best part of the game was actually the beginning. THAT intro was awesome. Heart-breaking. That's how you punch the player in the gut! That said, I did like the ending. I liked that twist. But it wasn't the first time I experienced such an ending, so it would was merely 'one of those endings' for me. Good but not this masterpiece people made it out to be. I was glad I didn't buy it because what I saw of the gameplay was not my cup of tea. As a long movie though it was well done... I might have considered buying the new game. I'm less squeamish about gore now, you see. I haven't read the leak yet. Not sure I want to... I don't mind bleakness - IF there is a point to it, like with The Witcher. The world can be bleak but the characters need to find SOME kind of purpose. I do not like nihilistic stories. If nothing matters, don't bother wasting my time! It's a slogan for depressed people but it's NOT the basis of a good story. "The hero thought nothing mattered until..." is the beginning of a potentially good story. If I want to waste my time with a story that shoots down all redemption and ends in unbearable bleakness, I'll watch the last season of Dexter again, ugh. Worst season of TV ever made btw. you'll wanna give TLOU 2 a hard pass, trust me. it's about nothing but cold, bloody, merciless revenge, and the endless cycle that it generates. it is the pinnacle of a bleak story with no purpose beyond a message of "revenge is dumb m'kay?" Read if you dare... One of the Surgeons Joel killed had a daughter named Abby and the Firefly massacre destroyed her whole life so she's been looking for revenge ever since. She knew who Elly was because her 'father' talked about their shot at a cure and pieced together that it was Joel based on Fireflies records. You play as Ellie and the game starts a cult attacking her settlement and she, Jesse, and Dinah are part of the group sent to track down and retaliate but Jesse is killed in the process. Ellie then gets pissed and goes on a vendette mission to seattle looking for the cultists home and wipe them all out but she meets Joel there cause he heard about Jesse's death and decided to help. Abby finds Ellie cause she's been in conflict with them as well. So when Abby finds Joel and Ellie as they were trekking to Seattle towards the cultist base, she attacks the both of them and wins. Joel is killed by Abby and Ellie is taken prisoner where Abby then debates on what to do with Ellie as she doesn't blame her for the massacre and yada yada. Ellie though escapes but manages to butcher Abby's group before hand, Abby gets mad and hunts Ellie down in response. You then play as Abby trying to hunt down Ellie for the rest of the game. Abby though eventually catches up with Ellie and kills her but then has a internal debate with herself and concluding that she didn't 'win' since all of her loved ones are still dead. The ending concludes with Ellie's friends now on a hunt to kill Abby. THE END. As far as Witcher goes, yes of course. That family cheese is why I can tolerate the setting at all. It's the one little oasis in an endless desert of black sand. That my friends is why dark and gritty does NOT mean more mature. You gotta balance it out with at least some dark humor or some morally decent characters, otherwise what is the point about caring the characters or the world?
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Post by slimgrin727 on Apr 28, 2020 0:55:17 GMT
Problem is it's hard to bring levity into a post apocalyptic setting.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 28, 2020 0:57:05 GMT
It's ballsy, I'll give them that. But given what they do to established characters and what they're asking of the player, this could be a train wreck. Oh, you should see the memes coming from THAT one scene, it’s beautiful. You know how memes shaped public opinion for Andromeda? Something tells me we will be seeing a repeat. Show me the scene and cover it in spoilers please.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 28, 2020 1:00:35 GMT
Problem is it's hard to bring levity into a post apocalyptic setting. Well utilize black humor, it worked for Fallout.
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Post by Hier0phant on Apr 28, 2020 1:20:09 GMT
you'll wanna give TLOU 2 a hard pass, trust me. it's about nothing but cold, bloody, merciless revenge, and the endless cycle that it generates. it is the pinnacle of a bleak story with no purpose beyond a message of "revenge is dumb m'kay?" Read if you dare... One of the Surgeons Joel killed had a daughter named Abby and the Firefly massacre destroyed her whole life so she's been looking for revenge ever since. She knew who Elly was because her 'father' talked about their shot at a cure and pieced together that it was Joel based on Fireflies records. You play as Ellie and the game starts a cult attacking her settlement and she, Jesse, and Dinah are part of the group sent to track down and retaliate but Jesse is killed in the process. Ellie then gets pissed and goes on a vendette mission to seattle looking for the cultists home and wipe them all out but she meets Joel there cause he heard about Jesse's death and decided to help. Abby finds Ellie cause she's been in conflict with them as well. So when Abby finds Joel and Ellie as they were trekking to Seattle towards the cultist base, she attacks the both of them and wins. Joel is killed by Abby and Ellie is taken prisoner where Abby then debates on what to do with Ellie as she doesn't blame her for the massacre and yada yada. Ellie though escapes but manages to butcher Abby's group before hand, Abby gets mad and hunts Ellie down in response. You then play as Abby trying to hunt down Ellie for the rest of the game. Abby though eventually catches up with Ellie and kills her but then has a internal debate with herself and concluding that she didn't 'win' since all of her loved ones are still dead. The ending concludes with Ellie's friends now on a hunt to kill Abby. THE END. As far as Witcher goes, yes of course. That family cheese is why I can tolerate the setting at all. It's the one little oasis in an endless desert of black sand. That my friends is why dark does NOT mean more mature. You gotta balance it out with at least some dark humor or some morally decent characters, otherwise what is the point about caring the characters or the world? Ignoring Druckmann's pretentiousness for a bit he's going for maximum outrage to drum up some buzz to boost sales but that will soon turn into apathy, like with DC's and Marvel's comic sales. This will only turn people off to the probable sequel because not that many will like to invest their time in exploring characters they like before they're brutally killed, and replaced by some unlikable edgelord.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 28, 2020 1:25:23 GMT
One of the Surgeons Joel killed had a daughter named Abby and the Firefly massacre destroyed her whole life so she's been looking for revenge ever since. She knew who Elly was because her 'father' talked about their shot at a cure and pieced together that it was Joel based on Fireflies records. You play as Ellie and the game starts a cult attacking her settlement and she, Jesse, and Dinah are part of the group sent to track down and retaliate but Jesse is killed in the process. Ellie then gets pissed and goes on a vendette mission to seattle looking for the cultists home and wipe them all out but she meets Joel there cause he heard about Jesse's death and decided to help. Abby finds Ellie cause she's been in conflict with them as well. So when Abby finds Joel and Ellie as they were trekking to Seattle towards the cultist base, she attacks the both of them and wins. Joel is killed by Abby and Ellie is taken prisoner where Abby then debates on what to do with Ellie as she doesn't blame her for the massacre and yada yada. Ellie though escapes but manages to butcher Abby's group before hand, Abby gets mad and hunts Ellie down in response. You then play as Abby trying to hunt down Ellie for the rest of the game. Abby though eventually catches up with Ellie and kills her but then has a internal debate with herself and concluding that she didn't 'win' since all of her loved ones are still dead. The ending concludes with Ellie's friends now on a hunt to kill Abby. THE END.
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Post by phoray on Apr 28, 2020 3:24:46 GMT
I do not like nihilistic stories. If nothing matters, don't bother wasting my time! It's a slogan for depressed people but it's NOT the basis of a good story. "The hero thought nothing mattered until..." is the beginning of a potentially good story. If I want to waste my time with a story that shoots down all redemption and ends in unbearable bleakness, I'll watch the last season of Dexter again, ugh. Worst season of TV ever made btw. you'll wanna give TLOU 2 a hard pass, trust me. it's about nothing but cold, bloody, merciless revenge, and the endless cycle that it generates. it is the pinnacle of a bleak story with no purpose beyond a message of "revenge is dumb m'kay?" Read if you dare... One of the Surgeons Joel killed had a daughter named Abby and the Firefly massacre destroyed her whole life so she's been looking for revenge ever since. She knew who Elly was because her 'father' talked about their shot at a cure and pieced together that it was Joel based on Fireflies records. You play as Ellie and the game starts a cult attacking her settlement and she, Jesse, and Dinah are part of the group sent to track down and retaliate but Jesse is killed in the process. Ellie then gets pissed and goes on a vendette mission to seattle looking for the cultists home and wipe them all out but she meets Joel there cause he heard about Jesse's death and decided to help. Abby finds Ellie cause she's been in conflict with them as well. So when Abby finds Joel and Ellie as they were trekking to Seattle towards the cultist base, she attacks the both of them and wins. Joel is killed by Abby and Ellie is taken prisoner where Abby then debates on what to do with Ellie as she doesn't blame her for the massacre and yada yada. Ellie though escapes but manages to butcher Abby's group before hand, Abby gets mad and hunts Ellie down in response. You then play as Abby trying to hunt down Ellie for the rest of the game. Abby though eventually catches up with Ellie and kills her but then has a internal debate with herself and concluding that she didn't 'win' since all of her loved ones are still dead. The ending concludes with Ellie's friends now on a hunt to kill Abby. THE END. As far as Witcher goes, yes of course. That family cheese is why I can tolerate the setting at all. It's the one little oasis in an endless desert of black sand. Finally, clear text spoilers I played one, didn't like it, and had no intentions of playing the sequel anyway. But ya, can see why folks are mad.
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 28, 2020 9:42:36 GMT
OK, I've read the leak since not playing the game based on it isn't a loss for me. I was never invested in that franchise. I already had issues with the first dance scene they showed and saw SJW nonsense coming from a mile off... Although it looks like THAT is not even the biggest problem of the narrative. I'm on the phone so I hope I get the spoiler tags right: One thing I MAY be inclinded to agree with is that what Joel did was just plain wrong, evil in fact. There is no excuse for what Joel did to "protect" Ellie. It was all about him. About keeping Ellie for himself so that he isn't alone anymore. Taking the choice from her, lying to her, manipulating her... Dooming humanity just so he can be OK. WTF. Doesn't get any more selfish than that. And if TLOU2 calls it as it was and doesn't try to pretend THAT is love, I'll tip my hat and say THANK YOU. Sidenote: The real shocker about the ending for me was how most people online said they would have done the same thing........ OK then, I hope the future of humanity will never depend on other selfish assholes like Joel! SCARY!
The actual plot of TLOU2 is hot garbage though, I agree. While Abby's rage is understandable, what kind of shitty story is that?! Who wants to play that??? They should never have made another game imo. Because how do you even continue a story from THAT ending? Either you have to completely ignore what Joel did and never have Ellie find out. But from the look on her face I assumed she knew he was lying to her. OR they would have had to confront what happened and that would have changed their relationship forever, probably even destroyed it. There are stories about the cycle of violence that are good, like Breaking Bad. How you put yourself on a road that leads nowhere good but once you're on it you can't get off. But even Breaking Bad did NOT kill off certain characters. Because you simply don't ever let EVERYONE suffer and die for somebody's mistake. Walter's family survives. Jesse survives. You let even the most depraved doomed character do the right thing in the end to save those who never deserved any of it. You need SOME kind of redemption at the end or the audience will feel cheated. That's why Dexter's ending was such a disaster. They committed that narrative sin that not even a show like BB would dare to do for shock value. Not even that show went THAT dark. You NEVER go full dark.
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You'll be peeling goddamn potatoes for the rest of your miserable excuse for a military career!
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Post by General Mahad on Apr 28, 2020 15:40:42 GMT
Oh, you should see the memes coming from THAT one scene, it’s beautiful. You know how memes shaped public opinion for Andromeda? Something tells me we will be seeing a repeat. Show me the scene and cover it in spoilers please. Not a spoiler, but a background for Druckmann in regards to UC4 and in general:
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Post by smilesja on Apr 28, 2020 16:33:09 GMT
OK, I've read the leak since not playing the game based on it isn't a loss for me. I was never invested in that franchise. I already had issues with the first dance scene they showed and saw SJW nonsense coming from a mile off... Although it looks like THAT is not even the biggest problem of the narrative. I'm on the phone so I hope I get the spoiler tags right: One thing I MAY be inclinded to agree with is that what Joel did was just plain wrong, evil in fact. There is no excuse for what Joel did to "protect" Ellie. It was all about him. About keeping Ellie for himself so that he isn't alone anymore. Taking the choice from her, lying to her, manipulating her... Dooming humanity just so he can be OK. WTF. Doesn't get any more selfish than that. And if TLOU2 calls it as it was and doesn't try to pretend THAT is love, I'll tip my hat and say THANK YOU. Sidenote: The real shocker about the ending for me was how most people online said they would have done the same thing........ OK then, I hope the future of humanity will never depend on other selfish assholes like Joel! SCARY!
The actual plot of TLOU2 is hot garbage though, I agree. While Abby's rage is understandable, what kind of shitty story is that?! Who wants to play that??? They should never have made another game imo. Because how do you even continue a story from THAT ending? Either you have to completely ignore what Joel did and never have Ellie find out. But from the look on her face I assumed she knew he was lying to her. OR they would have had to confront what happened and that would have changed their relationship forever, probably even destroyed it. There are stories about the cycle of violence that are good, like Breaking Bad. How you put yourself on a road that leads nowhere good but once you're on it you can't get off. But even Breaking Bad did NOT kill off certain characters. Because you simply don't ever let EVERYONE suffer and die for somebody's mistake. Walter's family survives. Jesse survives. You let even the most depraved doomed character do the right thing in the end to save those who never deserved any of it. You need SOME kind of redemption at the end or the audience will feel cheated. That's why Dexter's ending was such a disaster. They committed that narrative sin that not even a show like BB would dare to do for shock value. Not even that show went THAT dark. You NEVER go full dark. Can we just say it’s bad writing? Why does it have to be “SJW” bad writing is bad writing. Do you realize that the LGBTQ fan base is angry as well? I mean seriously, you saw two women dancing and you just declared SJW? Are you serious? Come on that’s not SJW.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 28, 2020 16:34:09 GMT
Show me the scene and cover it in spoilers please. Not a spoiler, but a background for Druckmann in regards to UC4 and in general:
Well sales are going to be hit HARD. If you thought the controversy surrounding ME3 was bad, I have a feeling we haven’t seen nothing yet.
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Post by General Mahad on Apr 28, 2020 17:11:03 GMT
you'll wanna give TLOU 2 a hard pass, trust me. it's about nothing but cold, bloody, merciless revenge, and the endless cycle that it generates. it is the pinnacle of a bleak story with no purpose beyond a message of "revenge is dumb m'kay?" Read if you dare... One of the Surgeons Joel killed had a daughter named Abby and the Firefly massacre destroyed her whole life so she's been looking for revenge ever since. She knew who Elly was because her 'father' talked about their shot at a cure and pieced together that it was Joel based on Fireflies records. You play as Ellie and the game starts a cult attacking her settlement and she, Jesse, and Dinah are part of the group sent to track down and retaliate but Jesse is killed in the process. Ellie then gets pissed and goes on a vendette mission to seattle looking for the cultists home and wipe them all out but she meets Joel there cause he heard about Jesse's death and decided to help. Abby finds Ellie cause she's been in conflict with them as well. So when Abby finds Joel and Ellie as they were trekking to Seattle towards the cultist base, she attacks the both of them and wins. Joel is killed by Abby and Ellie is taken prisoner where Abby then debates on what to do with Ellie as she doesn't blame her for the massacre and yada yada. Ellie though escapes but manages to butcher Abby's group before hand, Abby gets mad and hunts Ellie down in response. You then play as Abby trying to hunt down Ellie for the rest of the game. Abby though eventually catches up with Ellie and kills her but then has a internal debate with herself and concluding that she didn't 'win' since all of her loved ones are still dead. The ending concludes with Ellie's friends now on a hunt to kill Abby. THE END. As far as Witcher goes, yes of course. That family cheese is why I can tolerate the setting at all. It's the one little oasis in an endless desert of black sand. Even Part 1 despite being nihilistic for 95% of the game ended on a rather bittersweet, almost hopeful note.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 28, 2020 17:26:40 GMT
Can we just say it’s bad writing? Why does it have to be “SJW” bad writing is bad writing. Do you realize that the LGBTQ fan base is angry as well? I mean seriously, you saw two women dancing and you just declared SJW? Are you serious? Come on that’s not SJW. No. Because Druckmann is friends with Anita Sarkeesian, he's OPEN about putting his personal political views in his work! The man has an agenda. He admits it even. He wants to earn brownie points with certain people. Not necessarily with LGBT people, mind you. Most of these white knights are NOT part of one of the groups they're defending. That's the funny part. I'm friends with a black girl from the States and we are BOTH so annoyed with all the identity politics in 90% of all new movies and shows, including the focus on blacks as if they're the only ethnic minority that matters these days. So I know how often the people that get represented aren't happy with how it's done AT ALL. That is why SJW is so annoying. It's all about coming off as open minded and morally superior when it's not. It's so forced and fake and nobody wants this shit to ruin so many narratives.
I get a creeper phony feminist supporter vibe from Druckmann. You know, the kind of men who pretend to be VERY understanding of the female struggle to get into their pants. That's wholly my own view, so I might be wrong and he's just a moron who believes this crap is actually good writing...
I'm not even just talking about LGBT focus. A while ago, Troy Baker apparently hinted at Joel getting a background of being a wife beater maybe?? Good grief! So ONCE AGAIN, we're getting toxic masculinity shoved down our throats! OF COURSE. Maybe Druckmann realized that not enough players thought Joel was a selfish asshole by the end and REALLY needed to make that clear in TLOU2... So, basically, all the violence that ensues is the fault of the toxic white male!!! He lied to Ellie, manipulated her, took the choice away what to do with her own body/life. He killed that doctor and sent Abby on the road of revenge. It's all Joel's fault, you see! He's EVIL.
That's the narrative I'm getting off the whole thing anyway.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 28, 2020 17:40:11 GMT
I doubt this controversy will affect sale all that much... Been reading message board discussions and most of the fans refused to read the leak and are hating on the person who leaked it. They're very defensive of the game and attacking everyone who says the leak indicates shitty writing. Most are saying they'll buy the game anyway. Even those who read the leak. Since out of context, anything can be made to look bad. Which is true, technically. Hell, some people don't even care if the story is crap, they just want the gameplay to be good.
Look at FO76, sold a ton, sells really well again thanks to Wastelanders. A lot of people bought Fallout First! Fans buy stuff no matter what. And the more controversy there is, the more some people think the game is so brilliant that some people just don't get it.
My guess would be maybe 5% fewer sales from pre-orders that just got cancelled, at best. The majority of people don't really follow pre-release news aside from trailers. If the game is torn apart by critics and players alike after release, it will affect sales of their next game though, most likely.
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Post by General Mahad on Apr 28, 2020 17:55:25 GMT
I just hate Neil Druckmann for doing Amy Hennig dirty and creating a toxic work environment that has a turnover rate of 70% while at the same time patting himself on being such a great champion of women's causes. He's an arrogant dick who caught lightning in a bottle and now thinks he's a moral paragon. Kind of reminds me of a lot of developers. Also shout outs to Jason Schreier for being a hypocritical asshat:
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Post by smilesja on Apr 28, 2020 17:56:39 GMT
Can we just say it’s bad writing? Why does it have to be “SJW” bad writing is bad writing. Do you realize that the LGBTQ fan base is angry as well? I mean seriously, you saw two women dancing and you just declared SJW? Are you serious? Come on that’s not SJW. No. Because Druckmann is friends with Anita Sarkeesian, he's OPEN about putting his personal political views in his work! The man has an agenda. He admits it even. He wants to earn brownie points with certain people. Not necessarily with LGBT people, mind you. Most of these white knights are NOT part of one of the groups they're defending. That's the funny part. I'm friends with a black girl from the States and we are BOTH so annoyed with all the identity politics in 90% of all new movies and shows, including the focus on blacks as if they're the only ethnic minority that matters these days. So I know how often the people that get represented aren't happy with how it's done AT ALL. That is why SJW is so annoying. It's all about coming off as open minded and morally superior when it's not. It's so forced and fake and nobody wants this shit to ruin so many narratives.
I get a creeper phony feminist supporter vibe from Druckmann. You know, the kind of men who pretend to be VERY understanding of the female struggle to get into their pants. That's wholly my own view, so I might be wrong and he's just a moron who believes this crap is actually good writing...
I'm not even just talking about LGBT focus. A while ago, Troy Baker apparently hinted at Joel getting a background of being a wife beater maybe?? Good grief! So ONCE AGAIN, we're getting toxic masculinity shoved down our throats! OF COURSE. Maybe Druckmann realized that not enough players thought Joel was a selfish asshole by the end and REALLY needed to make that clear in TLOU2... So, basically, all the violence that ensues is the fault of the toxic white male!!! He lied to Ellie, manipulated her, took the choice away what to do with her own body/life. He killed that doctor and sent Abby on the road of revenge. It's all Joel's fault, you see! He's EVIL.
That's the narrative I'm getting off the whole thing anyway.
I mean yeah Neil is a pretty terrible for hiding behind his politics while being abusive but a lot of creators do have agendas and messages they want to get across. Whether they succeed is up to the viewer, I mean I don’t find two girls dancing to be an SJW moment or we don’t really know if Joel is a wifebeater. (Any leaks referring to that?) but yeah I’m with you Neil being an awful person though I don’t understand why him being friends with Anita makes him unlikable compared to the abuses he’s done.
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