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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 11, 2020 17:58:17 GMT
I want to preface this by saying, I never thought the game was "bad". Just mind numbingly dull, a giant pile of "meh" I called it at release. Now, given that no DLC ever happend, and knowing how the books turned out, I figured it was time to go back and give it a second look. The TL;DR version is this: I still think it's very boring, not bad, not good. It is still overall a "Meh" product with some small glimmers of potential, but also many wasted opportunities. Now for the ultra long, wordy Super Dork version... As many on this thread know, I was never a fan of this "Andromeda" thing. This idea of having to go to another galaxy to explore uncharted worlds was always ridiculous in concept, knowing that 1% of the Milky Way had actually been charted and explored. However everyone knows why we're really here, we're here because Bioware, imo, made a mistake. A mistake that has cost Bioware in various ways, some minor, some larger. That said I do not enjoy the bending, twisting of the lore that had to happen in order to make this possible. Using Mass Relays as a telescope is always going to be dumb to me. You will never change my mind, so don't bother. But alas in Andromeda we are, and what exactly does it provide? Well...honestly, more of the same. This is not a compliment for me. What follows is entirely preference, so feel free to ignore it or whatever lovers of the game do around here. Andromeda kinda feels like a joke. It's not nearly Alien enough. It's far too familiar to what we left behind. I understand why this was done, but honestly for me, if your going to jump to a whole different galaxy, I want it to be truly alien. I want to see things that are just incomprehensible. Every time the game showed something that is suppose to be "ooh look how strange and weird that is!" I just shook my head and said to myself "No, these are all things that could easily have been discovered in the Milky Way, since 1% of it was charted." Flying alien manta ray things on Havarl? "ooo thats so weird" No, no it's really not. The game tries WAY too hard to sell you on this idea that everything is so weird and mysterious, but it's not, not even a little. It's the same milky way tricks in a different location. The only real exception to this is The Scourge, this is the one truly alien element that I just cannot see in the Milky Way. It's truly a shame that it ultimately played such a small role in the game. Assuming a sequel gets made I hope they take more advantage of it. Andromeda also feels wholly inconsistent, on the one hand when we arrive, we're told that things are at the brink. Everyone is starving and desperate. There was an "uprising" of people because leadership failed on levels so great it makes the Citadel Council look competent. These people who dared to voice their skepticism were banished, basically sent off to die in the uninhabitable cluster. These people include the Chief of Security Sloane Kelly, whose crime was trying to prevent wholesale slaughter of scared, angry people looking for answers. Okay cool, no problem. I finally find the exiles and what do I see? that their doing just peachy keen, WAY better in fact, than the people who kicked them out as a "punishment". I'm not sure what this says about the game. I cannot decide if this is born of developer incompetence, or if this was wholly deliberate to hammer home just how pants-on-head retarded the Nexus Leadership is. I suspect it is the former, but the latter is wholly possible, given what a sniveling, disgusting worm Director Tann is. This leads me to the characters. Tann is easily in the Top 10 of "Most annoying Bioware characters". Yet for me, hes only the Third most annoying character in THIS GAME. Tann is such a typical trope character, so typical in fact that I'm frankly tired of it. I'm utterly done with Bioware doing the "lol political leaders are all dumb idiots" thing. Tann is a fucking weasel, the absolute definition of stereotype politician. I seriously held more respect for the Citadel Council than I do this man. He is utterly worthless and cannot for the life of me understand why he is STILL in charge. My first time through the game, I didn't pay much attention to Tann, and brushed him off. This time however it was like seeing him for the first time, and holy hell did I hate every second I spent with him. My new understanding of this man has changed several views I've held until now... Kesh is still badass, moving along... My biggest surprise however, is the 180 change in opinion I've had about Addison. Make no mistake, shes not really a nice person. Shes still manipulative and overly political. However during this second time through, paying more attention to various things, I cannot shake the feeling that shes really not as shit as she seems. I get the impression that shes so prissy and nasty because like many, shes just been so frustrated for so long about the constant political bullshit and the complete and utter lack of progress. I had to remind myself that, until you found Eos, her opinions about things mean basically nothing, and no one cares how she feels about decisions. Also Tann has made it pretty clear that if you don't follow "protocol" he'll gladly look for a replacement, preferably another Salarian <.< You can argue that she should just stand by what she believes regardless, to hell with the position. That is valid to a degree, but she IS in a position that can enact positive change on a large scale...once things get going. To toss that potential aside is no easy ask. Jaal, Vetra, Suvi, Kallo, Lexi, and Drack are fine, nothing else to really say. Competent companions with no real complaints. Cora, sigh, Cora just does not make sense. Her personality and demeanor are perfectly fine. Shes a very nice, level headed woman. Logical choice for wife material. What makes no sense about her is her backstory. The OT gave NO indications that biotic people are treated like freaks in the milky way, or weirdos who get picked on. This just flies in the face of established norms in the OT. The fact she has to go be with Asari Commando's to find acceptance? I'm sorry that's just silly. Her character is basically an Asari reskinned as a human. I've no idea why they gave a human the backstory that obviously belongs to an Asari aside from "lol that would be too predictable". Except that's a crap excuse given how many times in the game they lean on obvious, expected tropes. To me, it would be FAR less predictable for us to have an actual Asari Commando for a companion, rather than a human asari commando. Why? Because the only Asari companion we got was a carbon copy of Liara's background. A super young "Ancient Alien" expert who gets no respect. Why does the ancient alien expert have to always be Asari? Why can't it be a human, or a Salarian? Anything else really? Honestly Cora and PeeBee should have just swapped places imo. They can keep their personalities, but their backgrounds and role being swapped would be far less banal. Speaking of Ancient Alien expert...why does the Tempest even have one? PeeBee contributes almost nothing throughout the plot in regards to her field of Rem Tech study. SAM does literally everything Rem Tech related, the whole game. He translates the language, he figures out the programs, the bypasses, he even acquires the data logs to shed light on the Jaardan's history. These are all the things that narratively, PeeBee should be doing. Shes even more worthless to the crew than Liara was, because only Liara knew wtf Ilos was (a topic for another time). PeeBee does not even have that, she has literally no benefit she brings, other than being another body and making a Tech drone power that's kinda shit. Liam is toxic waste, the definition of a character that I just want off my screen. I would take James Vega 7 days a week and twice on Sunday over this halfwit. I'm tired of not being able to throw companions off the ship. Pissed me off in the OT and that sad trend continues here. Idc if throwing a particular Companion off the ship dooms me to failure at the end. Let me make that choice, that's why killing Vivec in Morrowind is brilliant. You break the campaign doing it, but the game does not stop you from making that mistake. Stop railroading my options in damn rpgs. The armor designs are exceptional. In fact in many cases it's the best in the series, and makes me wish they do a whole franchise reboot with this new philosophy in armor design. the Nomad handles nicely, my only complaints are the lack of weapons on it, and the pointless 6WD mode. There is no reason for that to exist. Besides that, most side "quests" have the same problem as DAI, tedious busy work whose only purpose is to pad out game time. This is not the type of content that I enjoy doing, and thus is a negative. I also encountered an insane amount of bugs and glitches during this play through. Like, it's astounding. Other than that all I got left is nit picky detail things, like wanting an animation for getting in and out of the Nomad, and other such type of detail things.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 18:23:12 GMT
Cora, sigh, Cora just does not make sense. Her personality and demeanor are perfectly fine. Shes a very nice, level headed woman. Logical choice for wife material. What makes no sense about her is her backstory. The OT gave NO indications that biotic people are treated like freaks in the milky way, or weirdos who get picked on. This just flies in the face of established norms in the OT. The fact she has to go be with Asari Commando's to find acceptance? Did you not do the quest UNC: Major Kyle in ME1? When Hackett gives Shepard the quest telling us about Major Kyle running a cult as "Father Kyle," he says: "Many biotics feel marginalized and ostracized by society. Kyle probably sees them as victims who need his protection. They probably see him as someone who will fight for them." I this that is a fairly strong indication of them being treated like freaks and weirdos.
What about the mission to rescue Chairman Burns in ME1? One of Shepard's dialogue options is to indicate that the actions of that particular group just made it seem like all L2 biotics were terrorists. You don't think that sort of impression would lead them to be "treated like freaks?"
As for going to the Asari for training... When Kaidan reveals that the Alliance brought in a Turian to train the biotics on Jump Zero, Shepard says that going to the Asari would have made more sense. Kaidan replies that the Alliance didn't go through the Council because that would have made earth look weak. However, Cora was not in the Alliance, and her family privately arranged to have her trained with the Asari commandos... the "more sensible" thing to do according to Shepard. That a very young girl sent away to be immersed in a foreign culture would start to identify strongly with that culture and lose some affinity with her own seems to me to be a very likely thing (It mirrors issues reported here with the fostering of First Nations children in the homes of white families).
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 11, 2020 18:41:56 GMT
Cora, sigh, Cora just does not make sense. Her personality and demeanor are perfectly fine. Shes a very nice, level headed woman. Logical choice for wife material. What makes no sense about her is her backstory. The OT gave NO indications that biotic people are treated like freaks in the milky way, or weirdos who get picked on. This just flies in the face of established norms in the OT. The fact she has to go be with Asari Commando's to find acceptance? Did you not do the quest UNC: Major Kyle in ME1? When Hackett gives Shepard the quest telling us about Major Kyle running a cult as "Father Kyle," he says: "Many biotics feel marginalized and ostracized by society. Kyle probably sees them as victims who need his protection. They probably see him as someone who will fight for them." I this that is a fairly strong indication of them being treated like freaks and weirdos.
What about the mission to rescue Chairman Burns in ME1? One of Shepard's dialogue options is to indicate that the actions of that particular group just made it seem like all L2 biotics were terrorists. You don't think that sort of impression would lead them to be "treated like freaks?"
As for going to the Asari for training... When Kaidan reveals that the Alliance brought in a Turian to train the biotics on Jump Zero, Shepard says that going to the Asari would have made more sense. Kaidan replies that the Alliance didn't go through the Council because that would have made earth look weak. However, Cora was not in the Alliance, and her family privately arranged to have her trained with the Asari commandos... the "more sensible" thing to do according to Shepard.
Burns refused to provide reparations for people who were crippled by implants. I can say with total confidence that that situation would likely have occurred either way, biotics or not. As for Major Kyle, perhaps, but if Biotics were truly so freakish and taboo why are Asari not treated like crap in the streets on a regular basis? Why is the only time you hear about biotics feeling marginalized coming from a freaking cult, and not a respectable source, like the news or Kaiden, or Jack, or Miranda, or Thane, or Jacob, or literally any biotic that you've ever had in your parties not named Cora? I mean, Jack was treated like dirt her entire life, but it was never because she was a She Hulk of biotic power, and given how willing Jack is to tell you every shitty thing thats ever happend to her at the drop of a hat, I think we can assume that was never an issue, and shes surely WAY stronger in biotics than Cora.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2020 18:54:30 GMT
Did you not do the quest UNC: Major Kyle in ME1? When Hackett gives Shepard the quest telling us about Major Kyle running a cult as "Father Kyle," he says: "Many biotics feel marginalized and ostracized by society. Kyle probably sees them as victims who need his protection. They probably see him as someone who will fight for them." I this that is a fairly strong indication of them being treated like freaks and weirdos.
What about the mission to rescue Chairman Burns in ME1? One of Shepard's dialogue options is to indicate that the actions of that particular group just made it seem like all L2 biotics were terrorists. You don't think that sort of impression would lead them to be "treated like freaks?"
As for going to the Asari for training... When Kaidan reveals that the Alliance brought in a Turian to train the biotics on Jump Zero, Shepard says that going to the Asari would have made more sense. Kaidan replies that the Alliance didn't go through the Council because that would have made earth look weak. However, Cora was not in the Alliance, and her family privately arranged to have her trained with the Asari commandos... the "more sensible" thing to do according to Shepard.
Burns refused to provide reparations for people who were crippled by implants. I can say with total confidence that that situation would likely have occurred either way, biotics or not. As for Major Kyle, perhaps, but if Biotics were truly so freakish and taboo why are Asari not treated like crap in the streets on a regular basis? Why is the only time you hear about biotics feeling marginalized coming from a freaking cult, and not a respectable source, like the news or Kaiden, or Jack, or Miranda, or Thane, or Jacob, or literally any biotic that you've ever had in your parties not named Cora? I mean, Jack was treated like dirt her entire life, but it was never because she was a She Hulk of biotic power, and given how willing Jack is to tell you every shitty thing thats ever happend to her at the drop of a hat, I think we can assume that was never an issue, and shes surely WAY stronger in biotics than Cora. Biotics are the ones who get implants... so I can say with certainty that particular situation would not have occurred with non-biotics. However, alleged terrorists, labeled as such, are not treated as the pillars of society. Society tends to treat them, whatever their cause, with disdain and hatred and the cultural groups they are affiliated with are often painted with the same broad brush as the members of that cultural group who are engaged in terrorist activity. For example, peaceful muslim communities here have had graffiti attacks occur on their mosques even though the individuals belonging to that mosque are very likely not terrorists. There are several indications in the OT that human biotics were treated poorly by human society. Your statement to the contrary is factually in error. That is all. As for the rest of your OP ... shrug. It's your opinion. Mine is different. That is all.
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Post by melbella on Mar 12, 2020 1:29:04 GMT
However, Cora was not in the Alliance, and her family privately arranged to have her trained with the Asari commandos... the "more sensible" thing to do according to Shepard. That a very young girl sent away to be immersed in a foreign culture would start to identify strongly with that culture and lose some affinity with her own seems to me to be a very likely thing (It mirrors issues reported here with the fostering of First Nations children in the homes of white families). I think you are mis-remembering here. Cora was in the Alliance, which is where her rank of LT comes from. It's pretty much the only way human biotics can get proper traiing/implants.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2020 2:16:34 GMT
However, Cora was not in the Alliance, and her family privately arranged to have her trained with the Asari commandos... the "more sensible" thing to do according to Shepard. That a very young girl sent away to be immersed in a foreign culture would start to identify strongly with that culture and lose some affinity with her own seems to me to be a very likely thing (It mirrors issues reported here with the fostering of First Nations children in the homes of white families). I think you are mis-remembering here. Cora was in the Alliance, which is where her rank of LT comes from. It's pretty much the only way human biotics can get proper traiing/implants. Yes, my apologies. I didn't realize the program she was in with the Asari was sponsored by the Alliance. This breaks with the OT lore and Kaidan's statement about the Alliance not wanting to go through the Council because it would make earth look weak.
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Post by melbella on Mar 12, 2020 2:44:14 GMT
Yes, my apologies. I didn't realize the program she was in with the Asari was sponsored by the Alliance. This breaks with the OT lore and Kaidan's statement about the Alliance not wanting to go through the Council because it would make earth look weak. Not really. When Kaidan was at BAAT was when human biotics were first discovered, something like 20 years before ME1. Cora is early 20s in MEA and probably didn't join the Alliance until maybe 5 yrs before ME1. A lot had changed in the meantime, including the Alliance being more willing to work with the Council (the whole purpose of going to Eden Prime, for instance, with a Spectre along).
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 12, 2020 6:00:25 GMT
Burns refused to provide reparations for people who were crippled by implants. I can say with total confidence that that situation would likely have occurred either way, biotics or not. As for Major Kyle, perhaps, but if Biotics were truly so freakish and taboo why are Asari not treated like crap in the streets on a regular basis? Why is the only time you hear about biotics feeling marginalized coming from a freaking cult, and not a respectable source, like the news or Kaiden, or Jack, or Miranda, or Thane, or Jacob, or literally any biotic that you've ever had in your parties not named Cora? I mean, Jack was treated like dirt her entire life, but it was never because she was a She Hulk of biotic power, and given how willing Jack is to tell you every shitty thing thats ever happend to her at the drop of a hat, I think we can assume that was never an issue, and shes surely WAY stronger in biotics than Cora. Biotics are the ones who get implants... so I can say with certainty that particular situation would not have occurred with non-biotics. However, alleged terrorists, labeled as such, are not treated as the pillars of society. Society tends to treat them, whatever their cause, with disdain and hatred and the cultural groups they are affiliated with are often painted with the same broad brush as the members of that cultural group who are engaged in terrorist activity. For example, peaceful muslim communities here have had graffiti attacks occur on their mosques even though the individuals belonging to that mosque are very likely not terrorists. There are several indications in the OT that human biotics were treated poorly by human society. Your statement to the contrary is factually in error. That is all. As for the rest of your OP ... shrug. It's your opinion. Mine is different. That is all.
Really, your not capable of seeing a situation where normal, non biotic people would take a man hostage for denying them help?..... that seems unlikely. Again, Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Kaiden, hell even Shepard possibly. All human biotics, not ONE of them has experience with biotic bigotry. They don't even hesitate to tell people their biotic, like someone whose constantly mocked for it would. I'm sorry, but Cora is the only person who makes this claim that isn't a Cultist. This is not believable.
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 13, 2020 0:36:47 GMT
Biotics are the ones who get implants... so I can say with certainty that particular situation would not have occurred with non-biotics. However, alleged terrorists, labeled as such, are not treated as the pillars of society. Society tends to treat them, whatever their cause, with disdain and hatred and the cultural groups they are affiliated with are often painted with the same broad brush as the members of that cultural group who are engaged in terrorist activity. For example, peaceful muslim communities here have had graffiti attacks occur on their mosques even though the individuals belonging to that mosque are very likely not terrorists. There are several indications in the OT that human biotics were treated poorly by human society. Your statement to the contrary is factually in error. That is all. As for the rest of your OP ... shrug. It's your opinion. Mine is different. That is all.
Really, your not capable of seeing a situation where normal, non biotic people would take a man hostage for denying them help?..... that seems unlikely. Again, Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Kaiden, hell even Shepard possibly. All human biotics, not ONE of them has experience with biotic bigotry. They don't even hesitate to tell people their biotic, like someone whose constantly mocked for it would. I'm sorry, but Cora is the only person who makes this claim that isn't a Cultist. This is not believable. It's always been my understanding that humanity has had a certain amount of anti-biotic bigotry. The following is from the fandom wiki: Human biotics face widespread prejudice and distrust from the rest of their species, mostly due to misconceptions about their abilities (some people wrongly believe that they can read or control minds). Should the missions involving Major Kyle and Chairman Burns both end in all-out bloodshed, the prejudice and distrust may reach the point where governments seek to demand registration of humans with biotic abilities. Certain religious and ideological organizations are also opposed to the concept of biotic modification. Some biotics have been known to abuse their abilities - using them to cheat at roulette, for example, or to pull people's chairs out from beneath them. There have been a few reports of individuals like these being attacked by frightened mobs, and sometimes even killed.
The Alliance military, on the other hand, welcomes biotics with open arms and provides them with massive enlistment incentives. They are now frequently found in the front lines of many ground-based combat units. Because of the massive physical effort required to biologically generate dark energy, biotic soldiers are assigned a large daily calorie ration (4,500 kilocalories per day, compared with the standard soldier's allotment of 3,000) and provided with energy drinks to help them maintain their blood sugar and electrolyte levels. The electrical fields in their bodies mean they are also prone to small static discharges when they touch metal. There's also this Joker quote from ME3: "Hey, I'm just tired of [biotics] stealing the spotlight from people with actual disabilities. I break ribs if I sneeze too hard - being able to move crap with your mind is not a handicap." Those are just a few more examples. I'm not sure why that part of the world lore didn't stick. I realize the biotic people Shepard are around don't dwell on it, but I was very aware of it. I even role-played an adept who was rather angry and bitter about the way she'd been treated until she developed her skills and joined the Alliance. Oh, and I just remembered - if this bit is any indication, it sounds like biotics aren't exactly popular in turian society, either.
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Post by melbella on Mar 13, 2020 1:48:13 GMT
The electrical fields in their bodies mean they are also prone to small static discharges when they touch metal. I and my co-workers might be biotic....we get zapped almost every day when touching filing cabinets or the water cooler.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 13, 2020 4:52:54 GMT
Really, your not capable of seeing a situation where normal, non biotic people would take a man hostage for denying them help?..... that seems unlikely. Again, Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Kaiden, hell even Shepard possibly. All human biotics, not ONE of them has experience with biotic bigotry. They don't even hesitate to tell people their biotic, like someone whose constantly mocked for it would. I'm sorry, but Cora is the only person who makes this claim that isn't a Cultist. This is not believable. It's always been my understanding that humanity has had a certain amount of anti-biotic bigotry. The following is from the fandom wiki: Human biotics face widespread prejudice and distrust from the rest of their species, mostly due to misconceptions about their abilities (some people wrongly believe that they can read or control minds). Should the missions involving Major Kyle and Chairman Burns both end in all-out bloodshed, the prejudice and distrust may reach the point where governments seek to demand registration of humans with biotic abilities. Certain religious and ideological organizations are also opposed to the concept of biotic modification. Some biotics have been known to abuse their abilities - using them to cheat at roulette, for example, or to pull people's chairs out from beneath them. There have been a few reports of individuals like these being attacked by frightened mobs, and sometimes even killed.
The Alliance military, on the other hand, welcomes biotics with open arms and provides them with massive enlistment incentives. They are now frequently found in the front lines of many ground-based combat units. Because of the massive physical effort required to biologically generate dark energy, biotic soldiers are assigned a large daily calorie ration (4,500 kilocalories per day, compared with the standard soldier's allotment of 3,000) and provided with energy drinks to help them maintain their blood sugar and electrolyte levels. The electrical fields in their bodies mean they are also prone to small static discharges when they touch metal. There's also this Joker quote from ME3: "Hey, I'm just tired of [biotics] stealing the spotlight from people with actual disabilities. I break ribs if I sneeze too hard - being able to move crap with your mind is not a handicap." Those are just a few more examples. I'm not sure why that part of the world lore didn't stick. I realize the biotic people Shepard are around don't dwell on it, but I was very aware of it. I even role-played an adept who was rather angry and bitter about the way she'd been treated until she developed her skills and joined the Alliance. Oh, and I just remembered - if this bit is any indication, it sounds like biotics aren't exactly popular in turian society, either. With respect, this is also in the franchise Codex: Ship mobility dominates space combat; the primary objective is to align the mass accelerator along the bow with the opposing vessel's broadside. Battles typically play out as artillery duels fought at ranges measured in thousands of kilometers. Need I remind you why that's a giant crock of crap and wholly inconsistent with what the game actually shows? Forgive me, but due to Bioware's own failures to maintain consistency between their Codex and visual in game examples, the Codex is sadly not a reliable source of information. However I suppose I will concede that at one point, this fact was indeed true. Back in the beginning when there were no counter examples. Like-wise there is nothing to indicate that Turians are in fact NOT biotic bigots, in fact Kaiden's backstory supports the idea that Turians do actually hate Biotics. So this theory is wholly acceptable. I also find it curious that this is the one thing out of my entire post that people are discussing.
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addictress
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by Addictress on Mar 13, 2020 10:39:12 GMT
Showing instead of telling is literally everything. I believe that if a game's *shown* content contradicts some side note in its codex, it sort of de facto voids the codex side note and the gamer moves forward based on what is visually shown.
Case dismissed
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Polka Dot
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polkadot
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 13, 2020 15:22:33 GMT
It's always been my understanding that humanity has had a certain amount of anti-biotic bigotry. The following is from the fandom wiki: Human biotics face widespread prejudice and distrust from the rest of their species, mostly due to misconceptions about their abilities (some people wrongly believe that they can read or control minds). Should the missions involving Major Kyle and Chairman Burns both end in all-out bloodshed, the prejudice and distrust may reach the point where governments seek to demand registration of humans with biotic abilities. Certain religious and ideological organizations are also opposed to the concept of biotic modification. Some biotics have been known to abuse their abilities - using them to cheat at roulette, for example, or to pull people's chairs out from beneath them. There have been a few reports of individuals like these being attacked by frightened mobs, and sometimes even killed.
The Alliance military, on the other hand, welcomes biotics with open arms and provides them with massive enlistment incentives. They are now frequently found in the front lines of many ground-based combat units. Because of the massive physical effort required to biologically generate dark energy, biotic soldiers are assigned a large daily calorie ration (4,500 kilocalories per day, compared with the standard soldier's allotment of 3,000) and provided with energy drinks to help them maintain their blood sugar and electrolyte levels. The electrical fields in their bodies mean they are also prone to small static discharges when they touch metal. There's also this Joker quote from ME3: "Hey, I'm just tired of [biotics] stealing the spotlight from people with actual disabilities. I break ribs if I sneeze too hard - being able to move crap with your mind is not a handicap." Those are just a few more examples. I'm not sure why that part of the world lore didn't stick. I realize the biotic people Shepard are around don't dwell on it, but I was very aware of it. I even role-played an adept who was rather angry and bitter about the way she'd been treated until she developed her skills and joined the Alliance. Oh, and I just remembered - if this bit is any indication, it sounds like biotics aren't exactly popular in turian society, either. With respect, this is also in the franchise Codex: Ship mobility dominates space combat; the primary objective is to align the mass accelerator along the bow with the opposing vessel's broadside. Battles typically play out as artillery duels fought at ranges measured in thousands of kilometers. Need I remind you why that's a giant crock of crap and wholly inconsistent with what the game actually shows? Forgive me, but due to Bioware's own failures to maintain consistency between their Codex and visual in game examples, the Codex is sadly not a reliable source of information. However I suppose I will concede that at one point, this fact was indeed true. Back in the beginning when there were no counter examples. Like-wise there is nothing to indicate that Turians are in fact NOT biotic bigots, in fact Kaiden's backstory supports the idea that Turians do actually hate Biotics. So this theory is wholly acceptable. I've always taken issue with certain cinematics in games because - as you say - they are frequently inconsistent with lore. Cutscenes generally serve multiple purposes - advancing the story is one, raising the drama is another - but in order for them to be successful, they need to be relatable. And the rule of cool usually beats out actual lore. The cutscenes of space engagements will typically show both vessels - the source and the target of an attack - in the same frame, even though the lore tells us these battles actually occur at distances of thousands of kilometers. That said, absence of evidence does not equate to evidence of absence. That some characters didn't talk about every aspect of their lives does not mean they did not experience a lot of things we know little to nothing about. What we know about NPCs is pretty limited, and the information we're given usually either serves a specific plot point or is designed as an aspect of world-building. Lore also tells us they use universal translators so they can understand one another. When I play the games, everything happens in English; when someone in Germany plays, they see the same content in German. The conversations cannot be happening in both languages (or any of the others supported), so which one is true? Your OP is quite a wall of text. I admit I've not read the entire thing. I scanned some of the replies, and commented on them. It's also entirely an opinion piece. I agree with very little of it, but respect your right to hold and state your opinion.
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Old Scientist Contrarian
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alanc9
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 13, 2020 17:11:46 GMT
Need I remind you why that's a giant crock of crap and wholly inconsistent with what the game actually shows? Forgive me, but due to Bioware's own failures to maintain consistency between their Codex and visual in game examples, the Codex is sadly not a reliable source of information. However I suppose I will concede that at one point, this fact was indeed true. Back in the beginning when there were no counter examples. Like-wise there is nothing to indicate that Turians are in fact NOT biotic bigots, in fact Kaiden's backstory supports the idea that Turians do actually hate Biotics. So this theory is wholly acceptable. When the game is not self-consistent -- when visuals, dialogue, and Codex entries diverge -- you seem to be saying that the visuals have priority. Is that your position? If so, why?
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therevanchist25
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 13, 2020 19:52:12 GMT
Need I remind you why that's a giant crock of crap and wholly inconsistent with what the game actually shows? Forgive me, but due to Bioware's own failures to maintain consistency between their Codex and visual in game examples, the Codex is sadly not a reliable source of information. However I suppose I will concede that at one point, this fact was indeed true. Back in the beginning when there were no counter examples. Like-wise there is nothing to indicate that Turians are in fact NOT biotic bigots, in fact Kaiden's backstory supports the idea that Turians do actually hate Biotics. So this theory is wholly acceptable. When the game is not self-consistent -- when visuals, dialogue, and Codex entries diverge -- you seem to be saying that the visuals have priority. Is that your position? If so, why? That is correct. The visuals take priority in a visual medium. Just like words and dialogue take priority in written media. That's why often times movies and games make illogical, or "dumb" decisions for the sake of fun, or cool factor. This is sometimes a good thing. For example a pure simulation of an activity can possibly be not at all interesting, but an exaggerated or simplified idea of it can be quite thrilling. More to the point, the visual matters more here, because the visual is what "actually" happend. It is the only form of proof in this case that cannot be disputed. It's like an accused murderer telling folks he didn't do it, but then turns out someone filmed him doing it. The words mean nothing anymore at that point. So if the game TELLS me that space combat is an artillery battle thousands of kilometers apart, but SHOWS me this why in the world would I believe what it tells me? An argument can be made that TELLING us it's done this way is more logical, because that is how it would actually be in reality if space combat were ever a thing. But then as a storyteller you have two choices, stick to what you decided as a creator, regardless of how exciting or not that choice is, OR, don't create such definitive rules about how things work, which in turn gives more flexibility to change things on the fly if an objectively better or cooler idea comes along later.
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ahglock
N5
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Post by ahglock on Mar 29, 2020 22:01:38 GMT
Need I remind you why that's a giant crock of crap and wholly inconsistent with what the game actually shows? Forgive me, but due to Bioware's own failures to maintain consistency between their Codex and visual in game examples, the Codex is sadly not a reliable source of information. However I suppose I will concede that at one point, this fact was indeed true. Back in the beginning when there were no counter examples. Like-wise there is nothing to indicate that Turians are in fact NOT biotic bigots, in fact Kaiden's backstory supports the idea that Turians do actually hate Biotics. So this theory is wholly acceptable. When the game is not self-consistent -- when visuals, dialogue, and Codex entries diverge -- you seem to be saying that the visuals have priority. Is that your position? If so, why? It makes sense, the game play/story/visuals is what every player interacts with. Reading the codex is probably a less than 5% thing.
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Gludipow
N3
Hype for DA4
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gludipow
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Post by Gludipow on May 13, 2020 7:08:32 GMT
Maybe it's just me but playing through the OT, humans were not as critically bigoted as Turians were (as Nyreen points out in ME3) toward biotics. But I wouldn't say they were fully accepting of them either. Jacob and Miranda wouldn't have had any or as much of an issue with biotic prejudice given Cerberus's desire to advance humanity by any means possible, including biotics. As for Kaidan, I think this needs to be shared from his wiki profile:
A teenaged Kaidan Alenko was mulling over Jump Zero's isolation from the rest of the Sol system when his friend Rahna came up to him one day in 2168. The two developed a close bond during their stay at "Brain Camp" so when one of their mutual friends arrived bearing news about a transmitter for sending messages to Earth both of them went to check it out, reminiscing all the while. It had been at least half a year since both of them talked to their families as outside communication was prohibited, and Kaidan mused the reason for BAaT's distance from Earth was to prevent biotics like them from getting beat up by more normal folk.
Not exactly something a kid would muse if human biotics were fully accepted in their society. The article also goes on to talk about how Kaidan's fellow biotics were scared of him after he killed the Turian who was tormenting them at BAaT. Losing it when said Turian broke his friend's arm while doing so. It reminds me of a quote from Yoda: Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering. When you have a power that is not natural in humans yet can be used as a deadly weapon in the wrong hands, especially so if the wielder were ever to lose control, it scares people. And people can become irrational when they are scared. However, because biotics are a weapon (even if they are not natural ones) it is still something the Alliance could use. So it makes sense that biotics tend to integrate a little better in the military. Yet, the difference between Cora and all these other biotics is Kaidan and Shepard got training for their biotics and/or learned how to control them before they entered the Alliance. Cora entered the Alliance seeking training for her biotics. But her biotics were so strong (likely about on par with Samara or Jack), that the Alliance saw it as a liability due to the test scores showing the abnormal spikes in her abilities, and instead of training her themselves, they sent her for training with Asari commandos. Asari are accepted in society because of two reasons I can think of outright. First: everyone likes the Asari. Literally everyone. There are instances of them using seduction and sex to get what they want (ask Aria T'Loak for an example). Second of all, biotics come naturally for them unlike virtually every other Milky Way species. So it should be common sense to think that, because biotics are naturally developed by Asari, they likely go through training at an early age. Hence Cora being sent to an ASARI military unit. So needless to say, for me, Cora makes sense.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on May 16, 2020 3:35:36 GMT
There was some at least in the past per the codex. But Kaiden was basically a kid when he was at BAat,it was maybe a decade ago. A lot changes in a decade. In the game as they show it, its not that big of a deal. There is no conversations with any of the biotics about how scary they are because they have them. Do any of the biotics on your team talk about continuing prejudice they face as a biotic, in any of the games. The closest is ME1 and the 1 or two missions focused around biotics, and those were problems with a specific biotic amp, and I think a weird cult.
So while some may have existed, they played it up way too much with Cora I think. And it was a pretty lame story point in context and how it was told. I was biotic training, and did Liam say anything with all the biotics I used in the mission before Cora does her barrier thing. A barrier she doesn't have when she starts. You are a biotic and does she acknowledge it and how maybe you might have faced similar prejudice. Do you have any lines about understanding it as a biotic. Other than herself, does anyone give a shit anywhere in the story that she is a biotic. If they aren't going to show it ever, why should I buy into it when they tell it later on.
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merylisk
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merylisk
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merylisk
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Post by merylisk on May 17, 2020 4:27:40 GMT
It seems like this thread has gotten really derailed, but having just finished ME3 and the OT last week, there are multiple instances in the OT where it's explicitly referenced that human biotics are treated with suspicion and "like freaks." The only place they're not is the military, basically. Which explains why Kaidan, Jacob, and Shepard are kind of shielded from the worst of it. Miranda also was genetically modified and basically raised in isolation, so she's not a good example of a "normal person" biotic. And Jack was literally stolen from her family and raised in a lab BECAUSE of her biotics. All the other kids at her facility were treated like lab animals because of their biotics as well. Kaidan has a pretty traumatic backstory regarding his biotics, too. Poor treatment of human biotics is alluded to in quite a few conversations throughout the games.
I also think Cora's backstory was kind of dumb and annoying and agree that PeeBee's and Cora's should probably have been swapped, but your statement that we've never heard of human biotics being treated like freaks in the OT is just... not true.
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