cyberpunker
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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https://web.archive.org/web/20160730023122im_/http://orig00.deviantart.net/0f5b/f/2015/290/e/e/untitled_5_by_lungsal-d9ddqkw.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by cyberpunker on May 2, 2020 9:40:08 GMT
They were fun precisely because we could break them and fire infinitely. Part of the fun is in breaking the mechanics. Ammo wasn't as fun b/c it took away this option. To each their own.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on May 4, 2020 17:50:54 GMT
I like them keeps us from indiscriminately spraying bullets all over the place.
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Post by AnDromedary on May 27, 2020 21:35:18 GMT
From a gameplay perspective, the thermal clips are perfectly fine I think. From a lore perspective, I get the explanation but there is one issue I have: You should be able to get the best of both worlds here. Have a thermal clip that can still cool down but also be ejected if you need to fire again quickly. That way, you'd have the option to fire continuously without the constraint of resupply. You could than conceivably even re-cool your spent thermal clips and re-use them, such that every soldier gets, say 5 thermal clips to cycle through. Of course, it is easy to come up with why this might not work (endothermic chemical reactions in the heat sink that are not easily reversed or such) but since there was a passive heat sink employed before thermal clips, it should still be an option. Even weirder: ME2 has a working hybrid system in place. You can activate it by editing a single line in the coalesced.ini. The only issue is that there is bug which doesn't allow for manual reload if the system is activated but it's in there in principle. Again, I get that they probably decided during development that a pure ammo based system worked better for gameplay but it would have been cool to have that system in for some retro weapons or during Jacob's LM or stuff like that. But anyway, in the end, it was primarily a gameplay decision and that's fair enough. I just wish sometimes that they'd have taken a bit more care of the lore in ME2/3 but that problem goes far beyond the thermal clips.
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Post by katamuro on May 27, 2020 21:44:09 GMT
I frankly have a bit of a problem with the "unlimited ammo" thing from the start.
Yes technically with the kind of technology it could be achievable. However there are two things wrong with this.
Physics which apart from the mass effect are all real world physics and purpose of a weapon.
Physics tells us that an object flying with high enough velocity will generate plasma in an air by friction. If a gun is shooting tiny grain size pellets and we use the measurement unit of grain that's a 0.064g piece of metal that means it has to have a velocity high enough to impact with enough force to do damage. Using a few calculations we arrive at a velocity of 8km/s for that kind of bullet to have the same energy at leaving the weapon barrel as a standard AK-47. We know that AK-47 won't penetrate some of the better body armours out there so there is no way it would penetrate a 2183 issue body armour.
So we double the energy from about 2000Joules to 4000Joules. To get there we need a velocity of 11km/s for the grain sized projectile.
And here enters recoil. Codex tells us that recoil is still the major consideration when talking about the destructive power of the infantry portable weapons. Mass Effect makes it a bit less but doesn't completely negate it. Considering the velocity of an AK-47 bullet is 0.7km/s then even if we take 50% of the recoil away the weapon would still have as much recoil as 8 AK's combined. This would explain some of the terrible accuracy at the beginning of the game but I think it just illustrates how the concept of the weapons wasn't thought through.
As for heatsinks, yes removable sacrificial heatsinks are probably the only way to get a weapon like that cool down fast enough. It's not really clear how exactly all the heat gets dumped into a heatsink but one way an internal heatsink would work is the same way as the ejectable one, allowing a portion of the coolant in it to be superheated and ejected as steam. This however would lead to faster overheating as you lose part of the coolant and also you would run out of coolant in the gun eventually.
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Post by burningcherry on May 28, 2020 11:49:29 GMT
I frankly have a bit of a problem with the "unlimited ammo" thing from the start. Yes technically with the kind of technology it could be achievable. However there are two things wrong with this. Physics which apart from the mass effect are all real world physics and purpose of a weapon. Physics tells us that an object flying with high enough velocity will generate plasma in an air by friction. If a gun is shooting tiny grain size pellets and we use the measurement unit of grain that's a 0.064g piece of metal that means it has to have a velocity high enough to impact with enough force to do damage. Using a few calculations we arrive at a velocity of 8km/s for that kind of bullet to have the same energy at leaving the weapon barrel as a standard AK-47. We know that AK-47 won't penetrate some of the better body armours out there so there is no way it would penetrate a 2183 issue body armour. So we double the energy from about 2000Joules to 4000Joules. To get there we need a velocity of 11km/s for the grain sized projectile. And here enters recoil. Codex tells us that recoil is still the major consideration when talking about the destructive power of the infantry portable weapons. Mass Effect makes it a bit less but doesn't completely negate it. Considering the velocity of an AK-47 bullet is 0.7km/s then even if we take 50% of the recoil away the weapon would still have as much recoil as 8 AK's combined. This would explain some of the terrible accuracy at the beginning of the game but I think it just illustrates how the concept of the weapons wasn't thought through. As for heatsinks, yes removable sacrificial heatsinks are probably the only way to get a weapon like that cool down fast enough. It's not really clear how exactly all the heat gets dumped into a heatsink but one way an internal heatsink would work is the same way as the ejectable one, allowing a portion of the coolant in it to be superheated and ejected as steam. This however would lead to faster overheating as you lose part of the coolant and also you would run out of coolant in the gun eventually. Recoil momentum is proportional to the square root of the bullet energy, doubling the bullet energy only increases the recoil momentum by 40%.
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Post by katamuro on May 28, 2020 16:41:16 GMT
Recoil momentum is proportional to the square root of the bullet energy, doubling the bullet energy only increases the recoil momentum by 40%. Thanks I didn't know that. But still even 40% increase is significant. And considering that there are kinetic shields and the armour we see in games is certainly much better than current body armour so it would be more than double the energy. Especially for guns like Carnifex or the big sniper rifles with huge damage. Also talking about plasma, the grain sized projectile at those kinds of velocities might not even get to the target being ablated from the friction against air and turning into plasma. I think the concept is good but they should have thought more into the whole grain sized projectile part.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jun 9, 2020 2:22:45 GMT
They make sense. I know we all like to bitch at ME2 for its questionable plot and aesthetics, and especially for retcons, but the Thermal Clips is one retcon I wholeheartedly support. It makes sense and it improved the gameplay at the same time. And after trying out Star Wars Battlefront 2 because it was free on PS Plus I can tell you that thermal clips were not needed. They just needed to improve the cool down system. The system used in SWBF2 is the system Mass Effect should have had or at least should have developed after feedback from ME1.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Jul 7, 2020 17:26:23 GMT
They make sense. I know we all like to bitch at ME2 for its questionable plot and aesthetics, and especially for retcons, but the Thermal Clips is one retcon I wholeheartedly support. It makes sense and it improved the gameplay at the same time. And after trying out Star Wars Battlefront 2 because it was free on PS Plus I can tell you that thermal clips were not needed. They just needed to improve the cool down system. The system used in SWBF2 is the system Mass Effect should have had or at least should have developed after feedback from ME1. Indeed, who would have thought it would be Star Wars to finally get Gun Cool down correct? The system from Battlefront 2 is basically perfect. It still uses a reload "function" but the reload simply vents the Heat. Warhammer 40k Space Marine also used this system for it's Plasma guns. It's honestly hilarious to me how multiple developers have long since figured this out, but Bioware insisted on definitively downgrading their settings technology for the sake of a pointless ammo gimmick.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 7, 2020 17:34:04 GMT
And after trying out Star Wars Battlefront 2 because it was free on PS Plus I can tell you that thermal clips were not needed. They just needed to improve the cool down system. The system used in SWBF2 is the system Mass Effect should have had or at least should have developed after feedback from ME1. Indeed, who would have thought it would be Star Wars to finally get Gun Cool down correct? The system from Battlefront 2 is basically perfect. It still uses a reload "function" but the reload simply vents the Heat. Warhammer 40k Space Marine also used this system for it's Plasma guns. It's honestly hilarious to me how multiple developers have long since figured this out, but Bioware insisted on definitively downgrading their settings technology for the sake of a pointless ammo gimmick. As I mentioned in my post above, the weirdest thing of all of this is that this kind of system was already implemented in ME2. It just was never used for some reason.
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