wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 21, 2020 21:17:38 GMT
Glad this isn’t a game series i’m Invested in. The plot seems an embarrassing smug self flagellation for being a medium centered round violence as gameplay. Murdering a popular character to set up a revenge plot, to then not only renege on allowing that at the last second, allowing the murderer to mutilate the protagonist.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 21, 2020 21:19:34 GMT
Glad this isn’t a game series i’m Invested in. The plot seems an embarrassing smug self flagellation for being a medium centered round violence as gameplay. Murdering a popular character to set up a revenge plot, to then not only renege on allowing that at the last second, allowing the murderer to mutilate the protagonist. Don’t forget having the protagonist commit countless atrocious actions, making them a monster with no redeemable qualities, on the way to that end.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 21, 2020 21:37:59 GMT
Yeah I feel like I dodged a bullet investing in this franchise. I’ve seen all I need to to know it just ain’t for me. What a stack of shit.
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Post by dirtrider00 on Jun 22, 2020 17:47:30 GMT
I managed about 24 hours of gameplay before I put it down. While I loved The Last of Us, had 3 full play throughs and had zero problems wiping out the Fireflies in the end to save Ellie, I just couldn't feel anything for her character, any of the new characters, and definitely not any of the relationships in TLoU2. There are a couple flashback cut scenes which really made me dislike Ellie's older self even more and one of those would have been a really good opportunity for Joel to explain what had happened back at the end of TLoU but I guess that would have made too much sense.
Overall its a 2.5 out of 5 for me with its only real saving grace being its graphics. I was really expecting more story wise but it felt more like a generic revenge plot with relationships from the soap operas of the '80's.
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Post by clips7 on Jun 23, 2020 4:48:06 GMT
Oh well...this sounds like i'm going to wait for a price drop...just like RE3.....
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jun 23, 2020 16:18:32 GMT
To add a positive reaction: A gaming buddy of mine LOVED the game. He didn't expect much of the story and has always been more interested in the world building and gameplay than the characters. And he didn't have an attachment to Joel which might be the driving force behind the hate train. He was so surprised that he ended up sympathizing with Abby and he thought it was really well crafted effective storytelling! By the end he liked Abby better than Ellie but they both deserved to die for their actions, he said. So he would have been fine with both of them dying. He didn't think the narrative was as heavy handed and boring as it came across to me in the 17min summary. So maybe there's something to the idea that you can't judge a narrative unless you experience it in full...
He thought the level design was one the best he's ever seen. Enemy AI was good and challenging. Gore was the most extreme he's ever seen in combat. So you gotta have the stomach for that (which I don't).
Graphically he was very impressed. Even though the game is locked to 30 fps and he's somebody who really hates fps dips and low fps in general, he said it didn't feel like 30 fps. Very smooth experience. No frequent stuttering issues.
He liked it so much we actually talked about the game for quite some time. I was very interested in his opinion which is so different from the internet's reaction.
So, anybody on the fence: Do you love Joel? Don't buy! Did you think Joel's actions were super selfish all along? And you love the art style and world building? You might enjoy this game after all!
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ALTBOULI
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Post by ALTBOULI on Jun 23, 2020 23:59:23 GMT
It's hilarious that Druckmann decided to do the same shitty revenge story with a change of heart at the end that The Walking Dead did with Negan, the worst cartoon villain ever. Negan killed members of Rick's family but when he finally gets him, he has a vision of his dead son telling him to let go of his rage. Let the psychopath go who'd murder you in a split second without regret. Makes sense! That was SO bad, such a hamfisted ridiculous "twist" that was probably trying to be deep but it's just not clever at all since MOST stories end with doing the right thing in the end. Or just plain not going through with revenge. After two godawful Negan seasons the fucker doesn't even die and returns for another season. That's when I finally checked out. The show overstayed its welcome way before that, revisiting the same tropes over and over but the characters kept me watching. But Negan was such bad writing, I couldn't take it anymore. If you're going to copy something please don't copy the worst trite shit out there, lol! Don't copy the worst baseball bat swinging maniac ever created! WTF. At least BioWare has the decency to retell a story they copied in a charming skillful way... There is zero creativity in that sort of ending. Been done so many times. Seriously, what was the point of a story so unoriginal? Unbelievable... Was thinking this a few days ago. The way Joel died was so reminiscent of the way Negan killed Glen. The game is a definite avoid, Joel dying was bad enough for me, but the story line is so basic and from what I have seen of the gameplay, the pacing is also pretty bad, then there is the ending... Last of Us 1 was one of the best games I have ever played from a Story and character development point, it's really sad that this moron Druckman ruined all the good stuff from the first game.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 24, 2020 11:33:50 GMT
Very much feeling like ME3 with all the attempts to shift 'failure of the game to connect with large number of gamers' into a condescending it's 'too artistically brilliant for the poor mites to get'.
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FireAndBlood
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Post by FireAndBlood on Jun 24, 2020 11:34:40 GMT
I just finished the game after 26 hours, easily one of the best games I ever played. Having us play the second half of the game as Abby was brilliant, it showed us how a desire for revenge no matter what can change a person, who would went above and beyond to save a pair of kids from a crazy cult, into a villain.
The plot was a terrific deconstruction of the classic revenge tale, where instead of the hero overcoming the odds and avenging their fallen father it showed how the violent actions both Ellie and Abby committed led to them losing everything.
I understand why people who read the leaks would be turned off about the game but I would still encourage people to try it, this is a game that needs to be experienced to appreciate.
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Post by dirtrider00 on Jun 24, 2020 17:54:33 GMT
Glad this isn’t a game series i’m Invested in. The plot seems an embarrassing smug self flagellation for being a medium centered round violence as gameplay. Murdering a popular character to set up a revenge plot, to then not only renege on allowing that at the last second, allowing the murderer to mutilate the protagonist. Don’t forget having the protagonist commit countless atrocious actions, making them a monster with no redeemable qualities, on the way to that end. After playing 20+ hours and making it just up to the point where you switch to the Abbey characters perspective, as much as I didn't like the characters overall in TLoU2, and found the story to be nothing more than a weak revenge storyline, Ellie doesn't perform the countless atrocious acts you seem to think she does. Outside of the community she is living in just surviving is hard enough between the zombies and multiple factions in the world that will shoot first and take everything after. The game itself is solid, the graphics are great, and while I could never get use to the controller mapping for the game, the controls were responsive when I actually hit the right buttons though I considered that a me problem and not the games. I should also say that I encountered zero bugs. My overall problem with the game was just its story. I was expecting so much more from it after playing TLoU. I can see how the people playing it are either loving it or hating it.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 24, 2020 21:09:20 GMT
Very much feeling like ME3 with all the attempts to shift 'failure of the game to connect with large number of gamers' into a condescending it's 'too artistically brilliant for the poor mites to get'. Yeah, but at least we get to kill the baddies. We should’ve been able to get a high fidelity death gurgle out of the golfer.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 24, 2020 22:42:03 GMT
Thought I'd creep into the spoilers thread having just finished (36 hours p/t). That was an outstanding game, what are some people so unhappy about?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2020 22:47:51 GMT
Thought I'd creep into the spoilers thread having just finished (36 hours p/t). That was an outstanding game, what are some people so unhappy about? To start with, they turned my main character into an absolute monster and bitch with no redeeming qualities.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 24, 2020 22:54:48 GMT
To start with, they turned my main character into an absolute monster and bitch with no redeeming qualities. I liked playing as Ellie and Abby for that matter. The only two sequences I found tricky (aside from being repeatedly killed by infected) were the two fights between Ellie and Abby, because I wanted both of them to survive. I'm sure it'll be a long while, but a Part III seems guaranteed.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2020 22:57:13 GMT
To start with, they turned my main character into an absolute monster and bitch with no redeeming qualities. I liked playing as Ellie and Abby for that matter. The only two sequences I found tricky (aside from being repeatedly killed by infected) were the two fights between Ellie and Abby, because I wanted both of them to survive. I'm sure it'll be a long while, but a Part III seems guaranteed. So you liked things like brutally beating an unarmed woman to death, or murdering a pregnant woman, and so on. Good to know.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 24, 2020 23:04:34 GMT
So you liked things like brutally beating an unarmed woman to death, or murdering a pregnant woman, and so on. Good to know. Which unarmed woman are we talking about? I think I must have missed that. And Mel was clearly trying to kill Ellie (you have to pump the controller hard not to be skewered), so there's self-defence there. So no, your point doesn't stand up.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2020 23:08:44 GMT
So you liked things like brutally beating an unarmed woman to death, or murdering a pregnant woman, and so on. Good to know. Which unarmed woman are we talking about? I think I must have missed that. And Mel was clearly trying to kill Ellie (you have to pump the controller hard not to be skewered), so there's self-defence there. So no, your point doesn't stand up. Can't remember the name. It was in a tunnel or something. Oh, you mean when she was defending herself and her family from the psychopathic bitch formally known as Ellie who had already murdered countless other people they knew while hunting down their friend? You can't claim self-defense when you murder the person who tried to defend themselves from you killing them after breaking into their place. So yes, the point stands up.
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 24, 2020 23:10:23 GMT
Thought I'd creep into the spoilers thread having just finished (36 hours p/t). That was an outstanding game, what are some people so unhappy about? To me the story just didn't work, I never was able to relate or connect to any of the characters and when the characters made choices in the game the results didn't fit what I have come to see from the characters from earlier points in the game probably due to not being able to connect to the characters at all. Combine that with the over the top violence for the sake for being over the top for you didn't need that level of trying to punish a player for going the only way they could forward. Compare that to Garrus's loyality mission in Mass Effect 2 when the Archangel is searching for revenge on The Citadel I was able to connect more to both sides of that conflict in about one hour (maybe two hours) of gameplay versus a 25 hour experience and they didn't try and break me with extreme violence. Maybe I wouldn't have been so off put by the game if we could choose a non-violent route through the game, but the scripted and non-avoidable combat ruined what might have been a good game.
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FireAndBlood
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Post by FireAndBlood on Jun 24, 2020 23:11:21 GMT
I’m hoping we get a game similar in scope to Uncharted Lost Legacy, maybe we can play as Lev after the events of Part II.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2020 23:13:28 GMT
Maybe I wouldn't have been so off put by the game if we could choose a non-violent route through the game, but the scripted and non-avoidable combat ruined what might have been a good game. Yeah, if there was choice in the game (with both positive and negative results depending), it might not have been as insufferable.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 24, 2020 23:16:09 GMT
Well, I'm diving straight back in with a New Game +.
Biggest tips:
Check you ammo before opening doors. Shoot the dogs first (ideally with a bow)
I suspect I won't spend as many hours with this as my last 'favourite game' (Assassin's Creed Odyssey) but I'm sure there's another run ahead of Ghost of Tsushima's release.
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Kabraxal
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Post by Kabraxal on Jun 24, 2020 23:22:20 GMT
Thought I'd creep into the spoilers thread having just finished (36 hours p/t). That was an outstanding game, what are some people so unhappy about? Tommy and Joel going full stupid when they have spent years surviving by being smarter than telling a group of not just strangers, but well armed and remarkably healthy, who they are and even getting near them to begin with. The death scene itself being a knockoff of one of the most hated scenes in television history (Negan: TWD). Ellie’s revenge tour being filled with her doing questionable at best actions and downright evil.... with the game finger wagging about how horrible it all is. Then forcing players to play as not just the murderer of a liked character, but trying to emotionally manipulate players into liking her by using cheap tricks like “see, she pets dogs!” before turning back around to show she us a bland, sociopathic bitch. Add some awkward “romance”, awful self inserts by the hack lead writer/director, and oodles of forced graphic violence that takes this into pure torture/misery porn and that is already enoufh to mark this as absolutely awful. BUT it doesn’t stop there... after 20+ awful hours of this juvenile bloodbath, the game doesn’t even pay off any themes other than “life sucks”. Ellie kills countless people, but randomly decides the sociopath that triggered all if it deserves to live. The sociopath gets to go free. And then the clearly idiotic bitch Ellie has the nerve to wag her finger at Joel over the end of the first game so Druckman can scold players for daring to side with Joel before she sulks in self pity and gives up. They really should have had her kill herself.... I might have applauded that choice after the shit story we had to suffer through. TLOU2 was an absolute trainwreck of poor moralisation, awful messaging, and even worse execution. It is one of the few stories I cannot say “I hate it... but I see how some like it”. On an actual dissection of storytelling efficiency and coherncy, it objectively fails by every measure. I cannot see how anyone can say that it was a well told tale.
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Post by Element Zero on Jun 24, 2020 23:25:27 GMT
I'm deciding I probably won't be wasting my time here with pointless, circular bickering. Not right away, at least. Hanako Ikezawa already has this game all figured out, and it's pointless to try to add anything further to the discussion, right? As always, any alternative opinions, any game content Hanako doesn't like, is offensive trash. I could list the myriad games and topics that have provoked this identical behavior, but why bother? We've all already seen it. SofaJockey, I agree. This was a phenomenal game. I started a Survivor+ playthrough a couple of hours ago and I just saved for the night outside the TV station. Things zip along when your skills are refined, you aren't needlessly crab walking, and you mostly know where death might be lurking. 😏 If anyone is on the fence about this game, I'd recommend playing it. It was a great game and worthy sequel. I don't know if they'll make another. TLoU didn't need a follow-up, but it got a good one. This game needs no follow up, but I'll play it if they make. It could feature Ellie, Abby, Lev or someone we don't yet know. There are limitless stories that could be told. It's just a matter of having one worth sharing in such a bleak, exhausting world.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 24, 2020 23:29:04 GMT
I'm deciding I probably won't be wasting my time here with pointless, circular bickering. Not right away, at least. Hanako Ikezawa already has this game all figured out, and it's pointless to try to add anything further to the discussion, right? As always, any alternative opinions, any game content Hanako doesn't like, is offensive trash. I could list the myriad games and topics that have provoked this identical behavior, but why bother? We've all already seen it. So much for your comments last night.
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Post by Kabraxal on Jun 24, 2020 23:32:26 GMT
I'm deciding I probably won't be wasting my time here with pointless, circular bickering. Not right away, at least. Hanako Ikezawa already has this game all figured out, and it's pointless to try to add anything further to the discussion, right? As always, any alternative opinions, any game content Hanako doesn't like, is offensive trash. I could list the myriad games and topics that have provoked this identical behavior, but why bother? We've all already seen it. SofaJockey, I agree. This was a phenomenal game. I started a Survivor+ playthrough a couple of hours ago and I just saved for the night outside the TV station. Things zip along when your skills are refined, you aren't needlessly crab walking, and you mostly know where death might be lurking. 😏 If anyone is on the fence about this game, I'd recommend playing it. It was a great game and worthy sequel. I don't know if they'll make another. TLoU didn't need a follow-up, but it got a good one. This game needs no follow up, but I'll play it if they make. It could feature Ellie, Abby, Lev or someone we don't yet know. There are limitless stories that could be told. It's just a matter of having one worth sharing in such a bleak, exhausting world. Jesus christ... talk about baiting.
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