inherit
10160
0
Nov 16, 2024 16:06:57 GMT
4,911
burningcherry
1,336
May 18, 2018 21:58:48 GMT
May 2018
burningcherry
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
burningcherry97
|
Post by burningcherry on Jun 21, 2020 1:48:36 GMT
After some very good questions I received here from Alfonsedode and on reddit, I grew very unsure about the core tactic of dealing with Atlases, decided to test a few things and got some very interesting results. The bolded things are amends to what you can find in old threads and the info I couldn't find anywhere before and I suppose it's new. – Platinum Atlas armor is 30000 – the sheet has a slight error, that's all. – You get the exhaust headshot bonus vs both armor and shields (couldn't have sweared on this before). – The plates are separate to the Atlas itself. They accumulate damage until it reaches 5% of the total Atlas armor value, at which point they break and the actual Atlas gets a 10% total armor damage spike. All damage above that 5% is "lost". – The plates can be pierced and the second hit deals damage to the Atlas itself – no dillemma whether to go for them or double canopy hits. – The plates are considered health for all purposes: there's no armor damage negation and weapons of protection multipliers break them as fast as if they were health. – Only actual weapon impact damages the plates, ammo can then behave in two ways: –– Phasic ammo damage is lost. –– All other ammo types deal damage to the Atlas itself with health multipliers (efficiently, Disruptor can directly damage armor). ammo goes to the main pool with armor multipliers – Triple hits can be accessed if and only if a piercing ammo is equipped (edit 25 II 2021: you need to hit one of those 3 small windows at the border). AP ammo I alone allows this while Javelin with both piercing mods and no ammo can't.
|
|
inherit
603
0
Nov 24, 2024 13:35:37 GMT
16,422
Alfonsedode
3,525
August 2016
alfonsedode
Alfonsedode
|
Post by Alfonsedode on Jun 21, 2020 8:51:25 GMT
- Seems odd we got the wrong value for atlas armor , means we might have others.... (does Mgamerz modmanager gives means to modify enemies stats btw ? ) - I like to go for the plates myself, even if it s less damaging - double hits need piercing ammo too ? That stuff is strange too, have u reproduced the results few times ? triple hits are inconsistant... That also would mean stuff was badly understood.
|
|
Beerfish
N7
Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
Posts: 15,191 Likes: 36,397
inherit
Little Pumpkin
314
0
36,397
Beerfish
15,191
August 2016
beerfish
https://bsn.boards.net/user/314/personal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Beerfish
Beerfish77
|
Post by Beerfish on Jun 21, 2020 14:23:31 GMT
A question regarding Atlas's unrelated to armour numbers.
What all can stagger them?
The reason I ask is that my fav class vs them is the Asari Vanguard. Charge, shoot weapon while backing up/dodging back, then charge (try and get a reload in). This works really well and I do not get grabbed, unless.... a team mate staggers the atlas just as I charge then I can get Atlas smashed.
|
|
Abramsrunner
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy
Origin: Abramsrunner
Posts: 765 Likes: 3,906
inherit
152
0
3,906
Abramsrunner
765
August 2016
abramsrunner
Mass Effect Trilogy
Abramsrunner
|
Post by Abramsrunner on Jun 21, 2020 16:01:30 GMT
Did you try killing it in one flamer cast?
|
|
inherit
10160
0
Nov 16, 2024 16:06:57 GMT
4,911
burningcherry
1,336
May 18, 2018 21:58:48 GMT
May 2018
burningcherry
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
burningcherry97
|
Post by burningcherry on Jun 21, 2020 19:02:07 GMT
- Seems odd we got the wrong value for atlas armor , means we might have others.... (does Mgamerz modmanager gives means to modify enemies stats btw ? ) - I like to go for the plates myself, even if it s less damaging - double hits need piercing ammo too ? That stuff is strange too, have u reproduced the results few times ? triple hits are inconsistant... That also would mean stuff was badly understood. Did a few more tries: – Javelin + both piercing mods, no ammo, 15 shots. No triple hit. – Saber + APIV, no mods. 15 shots, 15 triple hits. Those were against stationary targets, whether it's going to be better to go for triple hits or for the plates should depend on your shooting skills. Also checked all the non-pet values on Gold and Platinum and found a few more discrepancies: – Gold Pyro has 3070 armor, – Platinum Nemesis has 1534 health and 2522 shields, – Platinum Guardian has 2632 shields, – Platinum Hunter has 2328 health and 2620 shields. Mgamerz's tools do indeed allow him for manipulating my values so san anyone check this with their copies? The command for restarting from a wave is restartfromwave n , for disabling AI it's enableallai false , for seeing hit points profile combat target . A question regarding Atlas's unrelated to armour numbers. What all can stagger them? The reason I ask is that my fav class vs them is the Asari Vanguard. Charge, shoot weapon while backing up/dodging back, then charge (try and get a reload in). This works really well and I do not get grabbed, unless.... a team mate staggers the atlas just as I charge then I can get Atlas smashed. 1200/1500/2000 N force (Silver/Gold/Platinum), shooting off plates, maybe something else. Asari Vanguard should be able to hit the first and second treshold, depending on the build. Sometimes staggers cannot be prolonged (only renewed) so beware of attempting to staggerlock an enemy.
|
|
inherit
842
0
Feb 14, 2024 16:54:24 GMT
9,997
DistigousForest
1,592
August 2016
distigousforest
Mass Effect Trilogy
DesiduousForest
DistigousForest
|
Post by DistigousForest on Jun 21, 2020 19:57:19 GMT
– Triple hits can be accessed if and only if a piercing ammo is equipped. AP ammo I alone allows this while Javelin with both piercing mods and no ammo can't. – Saber + APIV, no mods. 15 shots, 15 triple hits. This seems to go with my gut instinct that I was getting [at the very least] double hits on Atlases with only APIII just based on Claymore [standard damage barrel] shots and how the armor bar was reacting to them. Same goes for Banshees and other multi-hit enemies. I've stated it in the past, but being on lolconsole there is no real good way to test, or prove, any of it.
|
|
inherit
10160
0
Nov 16, 2024 16:06:57 GMT
4,911
burningcherry
1,336
May 18, 2018 21:58:48 GMT
May 2018
burningcherry
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
burningcherry97
|
Post by burningcherry on Jun 21, 2020 20:43:27 GMT
– Triple hits can be accessed if and only if a piercing ammo is equipped. AP ammo I alone allows this while Javelin with both piercing mods and no ammo can't. – Saber + APIV, no mods. 15 shots, 15 triple hits. This seems to go with my gut instinct that I was getting [at the very least] double hits on Atlases with only APIII just based on Claymore [standard damage barrel] shots and how the armor bar was reacting to them. Same goes for Banshees and other multi-hit enemies. I've stated it in the past, but being on lolconsole there is no real good way to test, or prove, any of it. Double hits are possible with any penetration (like Crusader without mods or ammo), the problem seems to be with triple ones.
|
|
inherit
842
0
Feb 14, 2024 16:54:24 GMT
9,997
DistigousForest
1,592
August 2016
distigousforest
Mass Effect Trilogy
DesiduousForest
DistigousForest
|
Post by DistigousForest on Jun 21, 2020 20:46:47 GMT
This seems to go with my gut instinct that I was getting [at the very least] double hits on Atlases with only APIII just based on Claymore [standard damage barrel] shots and how the armor bar was reacting to them. Same goes for Banshees and other multi-hit enemies. I've stated it in the past, but being on lolconsole there is no real good way to test, or prove, any of it. Double hits are possible with any penetration (like Crusader without mods or ammo), the problem seems to be with triple ones. Huh, ok. I thought you usually needed like 1.5m for a double, but I could've read wrong. Good to know.
|
|
Tonymac
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: Tonycmac
Posts: 431 Likes: 2,609
inherit
566
0
Oct 10, 2024 17:30:45 GMT
2,609
Tonymac
431
August 2016
tonymac
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Tonycmac
|
Post by Tonymac on Jun 22, 2020 15:53:42 GMT
I have a bunch of drill ammo laying around - I should go play and give it a shot.
|
|
Urizen
N4
Disclaimer: No brain cells were harmed in the making of this post.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: 2Holedoll
Posts: 1,182 Likes: 5,521
inherit
124
0
Feb 14, 2024 16:44:48 GMT
5,521
Urizen
Disclaimer: No brain cells were harmed in the making of this post.
1,182
August 2016
urizen
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
2Holedoll
|
Post by Urizen on Jun 23, 2020 8:30:30 GMT
Well, that's, like a requirement
|
|
inherit
10160
0
Nov 16, 2024 16:06:57 GMT
4,911
burningcherry
1,336
May 18, 2018 21:58:48 GMT
May 2018
burningcherry
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
burningcherry97
|
Post by burningcherry on Jun 23, 2020 15:16:33 GMT
Did some sketchy tests vs Brute (shoulder & stomach) and Praetorian (stomach & moustache) plates and they seem to be working on the same mechanics except that they deal no damage when broken and the Preatorian stomach lasts longer (15% of total armor).
|
|
inherit
10160
0
Nov 16, 2024 16:06:57 GMT
4,911
burningcherry
1,336
May 18, 2018 21:58:48 GMT
May 2018
burningcherry
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
burningcherry97
|
Post by burningcherry on Jul 3, 2020 1:51:47 GMT
How could I forget.
Scion sack: 10% to break, 20% spike Ravager sacks (4 total): any damage to break, 5% spike.
|
|
inherit
603
0
Nov 24, 2024 13:35:37 GMT
16,422
Alfonsedode
3,525
August 2016
alfonsedode
Alfonsedode
|
Post by Alfonsedode on Jul 3, 2020 11:31:18 GMT
How could I forget. Scion sack: 10% to break, 20% spike Ravager sacks (4 total): any damage to break, 5% spike. is it plat ?
your values are again a bit different than what was tested, maybe cause gold, or cause updates ...
This time, the scion takes damage if u hit his sack without piercing?
|
|
inherit
10160
0
Nov 16, 2024 16:06:57 GMT
4,911
burningcherry
1,336
May 18, 2018 21:58:48 GMT
May 2018
burningcherry
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
burningcherry97
|
Post by burningcherry on Jul 3, 2020 12:49:34 GMT
How could I forget. Scion sack: 10% to break, 20% spike Ravager sacks (4 total): any damage to break, 5% spike. is it plat ?
your values are again a bit different than what was tested, maybe cause gold, or cause updates ... This time, the scion takes damage if u hit his sack without piercing?
When I thought we're done, there comes another discovery: destroying requires a fraction of base (unpossessed) armor while the spike is a fraction of the effective armor. The possession bonus to armor is ca. 50% and thus the discrepancy. The Ravagers were tested on Gold but I'll look into this again. Edit: I think there's some random factor because the damage varies between 4.5% and 5.5% and not always appears, possibly depending on shot distance.
|
|
CarlosS4444
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy
Prime Posts: Some
Posts: 66 Likes: 362
inherit
1604
0
Nov 19, 2024 19:10:56 GMT
362
CarlosS4444
66
Sept 16, 2016 18:39:47 GMT
September 2016
carloss4444
Mass Effect Trilogy
Some
|
Post by CarlosS4444 on Jul 3, 2020 18:26:59 GMT
When you finish tests I'd like to see a post with game advises based on those research.
In other words it would be good to know whether it's better to equip armor-piercing mod or ammo and to which gun.
|
|
inherit
10160
0
Nov 16, 2024 16:06:57 GMT
4,911
burningcherry
1,336
May 18, 2018 21:58:48 GMT
May 2018
burningcherry
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
burningcherry97
|
Post by burningcherry on Jul 3, 2020 19:43:51 GMT
When you finish tests I'd like to see a post with game advises based on those research. In other words it would be good to know whether it's better to equip armor-piercing mod or ammo and to which gun. It depends more on your powers rather than the gun so I can only tell some vague directions: piercing mods and disruptor ammo as default, Warp for biotics, AP on Arc Pistol and assault rifles, Incendiary for the glitch, Phasic for snipers.
|
|
CarlosS4444
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy
Prime Posts: Some
Posts: 66 Likes: 362
inherit
1604
0
Nov 19, 2024 19:10:56 GMT
362
CarlosS4444
66
Sept 16, 2016 18:39:47 GMT
September 2016
carloss4444
Mass Effect Trilogy
Some
|
Post by CarlosS4444 on Jul 4, 2020 19:29:12 GMT
When you finish tests I'd like to see a post with game advises based on those research. In other words it would be good to know whether it's better to equip armor-piercing mod or ammo and to which gun. It depends more on your powers rather than the gun so I can only tell some vague directions: piercing mods and disruptor ammo as default, Warp for biotics, AP on Arc Pistol and assault rifles, Incendiary for the glitch, Phasic for snipers. piercing mods and disruptor ammo as default, Warp for biotics: that is what I often do, so at least I have the basics right but why piercing ammo on assault rifles instead of piercing mod?
|
|
inherit
603
0
Nov 24, 2024 13:35:37 GMT
16,422
Alfonsedode
3,525
August 2016
alfonsedode
Alfonsedode
|
Post by Alfonsedode on Jul 6, 2020 8:54:42 GMT
but why piercing ammo on assault rifles instead of piercing mod? most of the time, better dps with mag and damage upgrade + AP, than piercing mods + what anyway ? Except if u wanna TB or inciglitch
|
|
inherit
10160
0
Nov 16, 2024 16:06:57 GMT
4,911
burningcherry
1,336
May 18, 2018 21:58:48 GMT
May 2018
burningcherry
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
burningcherry97
|
Post by burningcherry on Jul 11, 2020 3:16:37 GMT
It depends more on your powers rather than the gun so I can only tell some vague directions: piercing mods and disruptor ammo as default, Warp for biotics, AP on Arc Pistol and assault rifles, Incendiary for the glitch, Phasic for snipers. piercing mods and disruptor ammo as default, Warp for biotics: that is what I often do, so at least I have the basics right but why piercing ammo on assault rifles instead of piercing mod? When stacking multiple means of piercing on weapons without native piercing, you gets the least armor reduction of all of them. Assault rifles have two piercing mods: one is the high velocity barrel, which sacrifices a huge damage buff since you can't equip extended barrel, the second is the AR piercing mod of not too good armor reduction, which is a problem on most ARs because of their low damage per bullet compared to sniper rifles, slow-firing pistols or even powerful shotguns. If you don't want to lose a lot of damage on armor, you need AP ammo. It has the added benefit of penetrating more covers and allowing some additional multiple hits as revealed above so it should be generally better than Incendiary. Of course, there are cases when you'd in fact rather go Incendiary or Disruptor, like inci glitching with the Lancer or using the Saber as an off-host Crusader replacement and wanting to use tech combos. If your host is one of those unpleasant guys who preset Reapers, Incendiary is IMO the way to go.
|
|
DoctorDAM
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: DoctorDAM, DAMReapers, NSquat
XBL Gamertag: DoctorDAM
Posts: 483 Likes: 1,961
inherit
9152
0
Nov 15, 2024 21:59:41 GMT
1,961
DoctorDAM
483
August 2017
doctordam
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
DoctorDAM, DAMReapers, NSquat
DoctorDAM
|
Post by DoctorDAM on Jul 11, 2020 11:18:13 GMT
When stacking multiple means of piercing on weapons without native piercing, you gets the least armor reduction of all of them. Hmmm, I think that might require some clarification. As written, not sure if you are saying two piercing mods will choose the worst of the two for armor DR reduction (... wow, that's a clumsy phrasing )
My understanding comes from this reddit thread (which is a compilation of work the author gathered elsewhere). In summary:
"Piercing" (property that lessens the amount armor reduces your weapon damage). Examples:
AR Piercing Mod II "Ignores 35% of defenses on armored targets" (on gold, instead of 50 damage/bullet lost, it only loses 50*(1-0.35) = 32.5
AR HVB IV: "Ignores 80% of an armored target's defenses". Similarly, you lose 10 damage per bullet vs. 50.
The higher # is better. My understanding is that they stack. ie., if you combine both, you get the sum (maxes at 100%) of the reduction. So you lose 0 damage per bullet. [Edit: checked Kalence, supports above]
Your sentence seems to say that it would be 35%, so -32.5? Thus BAD to combine the piercing mod with the "better" HVB.
Penetration: This is the property that lets it pass through solid objects, but usually with some loss of damage. Here (by my understanding) is where it takes the "least reduction" of the two. Which in this case is good. Same example as above: AR Piercing Mod II: "Allows bullets to pierce 0.65m thick objects, but at 55% reduced dmg" AR HVB IV: "Allows bullets to pierce 1.2m thick objects, but at 45% reduced dmg" So here, it takes the lesser "reduced dmg", 45%, which again, is good. BTW, it also stacks the distance, so 1.85m which is obviously also good.
Further complication is if you now stack it with AP rounds. AP rounds suffer no damage loss on the penetration (which is best). Here however, if you also used AR Piercing mod II with it's 55% reduced dmg, that overrides the AP rounds (0% reduced dmg), and thus you are worse off in solid object penetration. Armor DR however benefits. You get the stacking of the multiple DR's.
tldr: okay to stack piercing mods. Probably don't want to stack piercing mods with AP rounds (there's exceptions, but this is already too long and confusing).
At least that's my understanding. Do I have it wrong?
|
|
inherit
10160
0
Nov 16, 2024 16:06:57 GMT
4,911
burningcherry
1,336
May 18, 2018 21:58:48 GMT
May 2018
burningcherry
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
burningcherry97
|
Post by burningcherry on Jul 11, 2020 13:55:35 GMT
When stacking multiple means of piercing on weapons without native piercing, you gets the least armor reduction of all of them. Hmmm, I think that might require some clarification. As written, not sure if you are saying two piercing mods will choose the worst of the two for armor DR reduction (... wow, that's a clumsy phrasing ) My understanding comes from this reddit thread (which is a compilation of work the author gathered elsewhere). In summary: "Piercing" (property that lessens the amount armor reduces your weapon damage). Examples:
AR Piercing Mod II "Ignores 35% of defenses on armored targets" (on gold, instead of 50 damage/bullet lost, it only loses 50*(1-0.35) = 32.5
AR HVB IV: "Ignores 80% of an armored target's defenses". Similarly, you lose 10 damage per bullet vs. 50.
The higher # is better. My understanding is that they stack. ie., if you combine both, you get the sum (maxes at 100%) of the reduction. So you lose 0 damage per bullet. [Edit: checked Kalence, supports above]
Your sentence seems to say that it would be 35%, so -32.5? Thus BAD to combine the piercing mod with the "better" HVB. Penetration: This is the property that lets it pass through solid objects, but usually with some loss of damage. Here (by my understanding) is where it takes the "least reduction" of the two. Which in this case is good. Same example as above: AR Piercing Mod II: "Allows bullets to pierce 0.65m thick objects, but at 55% reduced dmg" AR HVB IV: "Allows bullets to pierce 1.2m thick objects, but at 45% reduced dmg" So here, it takes the lesser "reduced dmg", 45%, which again, is good. BTW, it also stacks the distance, so 1.85m which is obviously also good. Further complication is if you now stack it with AP rounds. AP rounds suffer no damage loss on the penetration (which is best). Here however, if you also used AR Piercing mod II with it's 55% reduced dmg, that overrides the AP rounds (0% reduced dmg), and thus you are worse off in solid object penetration. Armor DR however benefits. You get the stacking of the multiple DR's. tldr: okay to stack piercing mods. Probably don't want to stack piercing mods with AP rounds (there's exceptions, but this is already too long and confusing).
At least that's my understanding. Do I have it wrong?
Yes, that's correct. Looks that I was wrong about where this effect takes place but the point still holds I think.
|
|