inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 20, 2020 17:00:10 GMT
The thing is I don't think BioWare would get the good will for something like that like Square Enix did. You can even see the complaints in any of the open world games from BioWare where its "busy work", "not what I want in my single player game" or "its MMO tasks" which were complaints I saw for both Dragon Age: Inquisition and Mass Effect: Andromeda so I wouldn't see too many people being vocal to defend those types of quests being in the game. Well, there would be a point to them. You'd get equipment and stuff. You'd get good rewards for your level. They'd be optional and entirely there to grind gear. We'd get some seasonal updates for cosmetics and stuff, but fairly shallow.
|
|
inherit
11593
0
58
HarbingerofHarbinger
28
July 2020
theviper823x
|
Post by HarbingerofHarbinger on Jul 20, 2020 17:23:02 GMT
Just saw this, I don't know if it could be considered as another hint but wanted to share it anyway
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 20, 2020 18:38:09 GMT
Simple endings are boring and do not take multiple choices into account. If you want as simple ending then choices like Kill the Rachni Queen or Cure the Genophage MUST be removed. Well, aside from an arbitrary War Asset number, it's not like either of those choices contributed much to the ending in the first place. How could they when two players can have wildly different conditions at that point. How could the Rachni attribute anything to the narrative if half the player base killed them off?
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 20, 2020 18:40:22 GMT
ME3 could have had a simple ending, the Hackett ending. The player learns, after the coup, the crucible has enough energy to destroy the reapers. After Shepard passes out in front of the console, and the arms to the Citadel are fully opened, the crucible fires destroying the reapers. And I hate this ending so very very much. It is stupid, simple and childish. If I wanted the writing of a 4 year old super hero show I would be a fan of the Marvel movies.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,292 Likes: 50,652
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,652
Iakus
21,292
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jul 20, 2020 19:48:30 GMT
Well, aside from an arbitrary War Asset number, it's not like either of those choices contributed much to the ending in the first place. How could they when two players can have wildly different conditions at that point. How could the Rachni attribute anything to the narrative if half the player base killed them off? It could have been done. Not easily, probably not cheaply, but it could be done. Edit: and if they weren't inclined to have it matter inthe first place, they probably shouldn't have touted the game as "choices matter" to hold onto our save files.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 20, 2020 21:13:12 GMT
How could they when two players can have wildly different conditions at that point. How could the Rachni attribute anything to the narrative if half the player base killed them off? It could have been done. Not easily, probably not cheaply, but it could be done. Edit: and if they weren't inclined to have it matter inthe first place, they probably shouldn't have touted the game as "choices matter" to hold onto our save files. Not easily at all. In fact I'd argue impossible due to the fact the entire narrative point involving the Rachnni would have to have the ability to be removed AND still make narrative sense without the Rachnni's presence. Basically you are asking for the action of Rohan to both matter and not matter in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields and the resulting rest of the Return of the King novel. And choices do matter which is why the Queen makes a cameo with the choice to save her or abandon her again for the krogan group.
But there are limits to what can be done in a feasible manner. It is unrealistic in the extreme to expect the game developer to rewrite and recreate the entire game story 4 or 5 times and have them all play out on the same game. That is some serious game bloat and a narrative nightmare. There are limits to what can be done and so concessions must be made.
The only way around this would to limit your choice to be nice to the queen or be rude to the queen but the queen walks away every time and the only difference is if you were nice to her or mean to her. The choice is yours to the style of game you want. I personally enjoy the set up we got even with the concessions that had to be made.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 20, 2020 21:20:35 GMT
Not easily at all. In fact I'd argue impossible due to the fact the entire narrative point involving the Rachnni would have to have the ability to be removed AND still make narrative sense without the Rachnni's presence Easy. You wouldn't make the mission. It's not there. Maybe Aralakh Company or what they're called shows up somewhere else. Maybe they save, uh, Sparatus' son? Because they were available and no occupied in the Rachni mission. The "Rose of Ilium" guy might have survived as well. So maybe killing the Rachni queen would be a better choice, than sparring her. If you have more than 18 months to make a game, something that Allan Schumacher admitted to having, in a conversation I had with him in the old BSN, maybe you can produce more content. Like having 5 years to make Andromeda and $100 million CAD, meanwhile, ME3 only cost $40 million. So I don't think time, nor funds were a big enough constraint on ME3's final state. It was just EA/Bioware thinking it was "enough".
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,292 Likes: 50,652
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,652
Iakus
21,292
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jul 20, 2020 21:28:54 GMT
It could have been done. Not easily, probably not cheaply, but it could be done. Edit: and if they weren't inclined to have it matter inthe first place, they probably shouldn't have touted the game as "choices matter" to hold onto our save files. Not easily at all. In fact I'd argue impossible due to the fact the entire narrative point involving the Rachnni would have to have the ability to be removed AND still make narrative sense without the Rachnni's presence. Basically you are asking for the action of Rohan to both matter and not matter in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields and the resulting rest of the Return of the King novel. And choices do matter which is why the Queen makes a cameo with the choice to save her or abandon her again for the krogan group.
But there are limits to what can be done in a feasible manner. It is unrealistic in the extreme to expect the game developer to rewrite and recreate the entire game story 4 or 5 times and have them all play out on the same game. That is some serious game bloat and a narrative nightmare. There are limits to what can be done and so concessions must be made.
The only way around this would to limit your choice to be nice to the queen or be rude to the queen but the queen walks away every time and the only difference is if you were nice to her or mean to her. The choice is yours to the style of game you want. I personally enjoy the set up we got even with the concessions that had to be made.
If the rachni were the only significant military force Shepard could call upon, I'd be inclined to agree. But the rachni are one among many. In any case, what the choice ended up amounting to was dealing with the rachni queen or the Totally Not rachni queen. And the result of THAT coils down to...a number. Yes, there are limits. Which is why this stuff really should be planned ahead, and why I am totally soured over storyarcs spreading across games with save imports. making a truly responsive rpg to that extent takes a LOT of work. Work most companies are unwilling or unable to attempt. I have seen exactly ONE game do it well: The Banner Saga. at the end of the first game one of the main pov characters dies due to your choice. And the second game picks up with one or the other pov character as the main character going forward. Of course, it's also a text-heavy game with no mocap and virtually no voice acting. I'm sure that made tings easier.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 20, 2020 21:48:39 GMT
Not easily at all. In fact I'd argue impossible due to the fact the entire narrative point involving the Rachnni would have to have the ability to be removed AND still make narrative sense without the Rachnni's presence. Basically you are asking for the action of Rohan to both matter and not matter in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields and the resulting rest of the Return of the King novel. And choices do matter which is why the Queen makes a cameo with the choice to save her or abandon her again for the krogan group.
But there are limits to what can be done in a feasible manner. It is unrealistic in the extreme to expect the game developer to rewrite and recreate the entire game story 4 or 5 times and have them all play out on the same game. That is some serious game bloat and a narrative nightmare. There are limits to what can be done and so concessions must be made.
The only way around this would to limit your choice to be nice to the queen or be rude to the queen but the queen walks away every time and the only difference is if you were nice to her or mean to her. The choice is yours to the style of game you want. I personally enjoy the set up we got even with the concessions that had to be made.
If the rachni were the only significant military force Shepard could call upon, I'd be inclined to agree. But the rachni are one among many. In any case, what the choice ended up amounting to was dealing with the rachni queen or the Totally Not rachni queen. And the result of THAT coils down to...a number. Yes, there are limits. Which is why this stuff really should be planned ahead, and why I am totally soured over storyarcs spreading across games with save imports. making a truly responsive rpg to that extent takes a LOT of work. Work most companies are unwilling or unable to attempt. I have seen exactly ONE game do it well: The Banner Saga. at the end of the first game one of the main pov characters dies due to your choice. And the second game picks up with one or the other pov character as the main character going forward. Of course, it's also a text-heavy game with no mocap and virtually no voice acting. I'm sure that made tings easier. You continue to complain about what happened and you really don't address my reasons for why other then to complain about it. I've already had my fill with another person just complaining about what happened without addressing the discussion about why it happened and what limitations you would have to accept to allow that to have changed in any realistic way for any game developer that isn't Star Citzen. Because not every game can have a fanatical player base that is willing to pay 2,000 dollars for a ship to play on a game that is constantly bloating with feature creep which will ensure people will have been born after development started and in their 20's and married before the game even hits a beta mode.
Simple yes or no answer please. Would you prefer any theoretical Mass Effect Remake to strip all choice beyond the option to be nice or mean in conversations for a more coherent narrative due to no longer having to compensate for player choices?
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,292 Likes: 50,652
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,652
Iakus
21,292
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jul 20, 2020 21:50:19 GMT
If the rachni were the only significant military force Shepard could call upon, I'd be inclined to agree. But the rachni are one among many. In any case, what the choice ended up amounting to was dealing with the rachni queen or the Totally Not rachni queen. And the result of THAT coils down to...a number. Yes, there are limits. Which is why this stuff really should be planned ahead, and why I am totally soured over storyarcs spreading across games with save imports. making a truly responsive rpg to that extent takes a LOT of work. Work most companies are unwilling or unable to attempt. I have seen exactly ONE game do it well: The Banner Saga. at the end of the first game one of the main pov characters dies due to your choice. And the second game picks up with one or the other pov character as the main character going forward. Of course, it's also a text-heavy game with no mocap and virtually no voice acting. I'm sure that made tings easier. You continue to complain about what happened and you really don't address my reasons for why other then to complain about it. I've already had my fill with another person just complaining about what happened without addressing the discussion about why it happened and what limitations you would have to accept to allow that to have changed in any realistic way for any game developer that isn't Star Citzen. Because not every game can have a fanatical player base that is willing to pay 2,000 dollars for a ship to play on a game that is constantly bloating with feature creep which will ensure people will have been born after development started and in their 20's and married before the game even hits a beta mode.
Simple yes or no answer please. Would you prefer any theoretical Mass Effect Remake to strip all choice beyond the option to be nice or mean in conversations for a more coherent narrative due to no longer having to compensate for player choices?
Blahblahblah "I don't like your reasoning so your arguments are invalid" Answer: No. I don't play games to be the director's character. I play games to be MY character.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Jul 20, 2020 21:58:48 GMT
Alternate retellings are a different story. Frankly, I’d probably sacrifice Kirrahe in a heartbeat to keep both Ashley and Kaidan alive. Personally I’d ditch Project Lazarus. It’s one of those elements of the trilogy that I feel aged the worst of most everything else, and is pretty much inert as far as narrative devices go. It never culminates into any kind of meaningful dialogue until the admittedly pretty decent scene at Cronos station when we see the project logs. I think the ending of the trilogy speaks for itself. I’m a person of fairly simple tastes, and would be immensely satisfied with a simple, straightforward ending. Endings that try to make me “think” tend to do little more than irritate me when I spend more time thinking about how this or that just doesn’t really make sense. Simple endings are boring and do not take multiple choices into account. If you want as simple ending then choices like Kill the Rachni Queen or Cure the Genophage MUST be removed. The whole simple=bad mentality regarding fiction was always something I found kind of weird, as if the only good and interesting endings are ones that are complicated and try hard to send some sort of deep message about something or other, or you have to sit there pondering on what the fuck just happened so you can reconcile the film in your head. Like, if it ain’t Mulholland Drive, then it’s just for simpletons, and absolute trash. I’m more about the execution than the message itself. If the execution is poor, then I couldn’t give a krogan queef about what the message is, because the way ideas are conveyed matter just as much as the ideas themselves. I don’t know if I’d be happy when my Amazon.com purchase comes early if it’s shot through my window by an air cannon. In this case though, simple has nothing to do with taking multiple choices into account, especially since the endings themselves do no such thing anyway. It’s more about the sudden inclusion of options that don’t really gel with what was going on throughout the game. Why does Shepard need to dissolve into the ether to do anything? Who the fuck knows. Just do it or you doom everyone to a future set in stone by a holographic mockery of your PTSD. If I helped Aria get her couch back, I get enough assets that I could screw over people and still get the same number of endings, and possibly have the privilege of waking up in a pile of space rubble. EDI and the geth might die, even though Garrus’ visor still lights up just fine. It’s like setting off a fairy dust EMP in my house and it only kills my Nintendos. Simple isn’t so much about the number of choices available, but rather about not adding last-minute complications that lack proper setup. If I wanted to be surprised with unpleasant changes at the very last minute, I could just spend more time with my family. The endings, as we have them, don’t account for Shepard’s actions at all throughout the trilogy. There’s no pivotal moment that culminates into the final scenes. What we get isn’t remotely complex, but does add needless complication. An important distinction between the endings and the Genophage decision is that its conclusion does hinge largely on our actions prior. We have setup. We can see it from the perspective of a krogan companion, then from the perspective of a salarian scientist who helped to modify it and see its effects on krogan society. Depending on what we do, we can drastically affect the leadership going forward prior to this decision, and we have what we need to really think about what path we might believe is best. There’s no sudden revelation that stops us in our tracks to derail our decision making in the final step of the genophage cure plot. That would be a cheap move that detracts from everything that came prior.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,628
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 20, 2020 22:02:21 GMT
If I wanted to be surprised with unpleasant changes But subversion of expectations is a merit in and of itself, right? RIGHT?????
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Jul 20, 2020 22:07:25 GMT
If I wanted to be surprised with unpleasant changes But subversion of expectations is a merit in and of itself, right? RIGHT????? Needless to say that subversion has become kind of a dirty word, and rightly so, because hack writers/filmmakers have been abusing this writing tactic a bit too much. As hilarious as it would be to sometimes find myself fighting demons with a shotgun in animal crossing, maybe I might just want to fish and earn bells for my raccoon slavedriver for a while.
|
|
Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,940 Likes: 3,177
inherit
634
0
May 14, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
3,177
Cyberstrike
is wanting to have some fun!
1,940
August 2016
cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
cyberstrike nTo
cyberstrike-nTo
1,732
467
|
Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 21, 2020 0:35:29 GMT
Simple endings are boring and do not take multiple choices into account. If you want as simple ending then choices like Kill the Rachni Queen or Cure the Genophage MUST be removed. The whole simple=bad mentality regarding fiction was always something I found kind of weird, as if the only good and interesting endings are ones that are complicated and try hard to send some sort of deep message about something or other, or you have to sit there pondering on what the fuck just happened so you can reconcile the film in your head. Like, if it ain’t Mulholland Drive, then it’s just for simpletons, and absolute trash. I’m more about the execution than the message itself. If the execution is poor, then I couldn’t give a krogan queef about what the message is, because the way ideas are conveyed matter just as much as the ideas themselves. I don’t know if I’d be happy when my Amazon.com purchase comes early if it’s shot through my window by an air cannon.
Sometimes simple endings are the best. The good guys won, hero got the love interest, and the bad guys lost. I don't need an overly complicated and deep message at the end of every fucking story.
The ending to the reboot of BSG sucked because it was supposed to be this "deep complex complicated ending" and guess what it sucked because the writers NEVER had a damn plan on the show was to end the show and just like the Cylons they were making it up as they went along! So other than MAYBE Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Babylon 5 I honestly can't think of a damn sci-fi show that went for a complex, complicated deep meaning endings that stuck to landing and/or just didn't suck and even BOTH DS9 and B5's endings had weaknesses DS9 the final battle with Gul Dukat and Sisko was underwhelming (as was the whole story of Dukat's freeing the wraiths from the Fire Caves which was weak, rushed, and seemed to get lost in the shuffle) and the final fate of Sheridan disappearing in a space ship was lame. Sorry but IMHO the spirituality aspect of both shows for me was their greatest weaknesses.
Sorry but I don't need an overly complex complicated deep ending to find the meaning of life (or whatever) in my media, I want an emotional ending. Make me happy, sad, angry, joyful. Make me FEEL an emotion and that is not easy as it sounds. But those are the endings that I always remember and mean the most to me, not some stupid idea like "It's God or Devil's will that everything that happened before will happen again." bullshit that Ron Moore pulled out of his ass to end the reboot of BSG and honestly I felt like I wasted my time watching that damn show. Now since I never watched Game of Thrones but from I've heard about it's ending I think understand why many of it's fans were disappointed and/or mad at the ending of Game of Thrones because the writers never really had an idea on how the show was going to end. They tried for an ending that was "complex complicated deep meaning and had a twist and no one liked it.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 21, 2020 0:44:10 GMT
You continue to complain about what happened and you really don't address my reasons for why other then to complain about it. I've already had my fill with another person just complaining about what happened without addressing the discussion about why it happened and what limitations you would have to accept to allow that to have changed in any realistic way for any game developer that isn't Star Citzen. Because not every game can have a fanatical player base that is willing to pay 2,000 dollars for a ship to play on a game that is constantly bloating with feature creep which will ensure people will have been born after development started and in their 20's and married before the game even hits a beta mode.
Simple yes or no answer please. Would you prefer any theoretical Mass Effect Remake to strip all choice beyond the option to be nice or mean in conversations for a more coherent narrative due to no longer having to compensate for player choices?
Blahblahblah "I don't like your reasoning so your arguments are invalid" Answer: No. I don't play games to be the director's character. I play games to be MY character. Actually address the legitimate points I bring up rather then dismissing them for your fantasy version of the game that has no limitations of the real world next time. No matter how much you might wish it no game developer is going to write 3 or 4 different versions of the same game within the same game. They are going to write a single story and work choices into the frame work. It is the compromise you get when you have a story with choices. And particularly a story spread across 3 games without any canonical choices to write the games on.
If you do not want to be the director's character and you want your character and your choices to be yours across 3 games you have to accept compromises to that. And one specific example of that compromise is the Rachni getting a small role and mostly adding to EMS score. Because attempting to integrate them to much into the main story narrative would create issues for people playing who didn't save the Queen. Thus creating a problem in terms of narrative on part with suddenly just cutting the whole Tuchunka or Rannoch Arcs out of the game.
These compromises is why even single games like Fallout rely heavily on the ending slide show to give a lot of your actions any real value because they have no effect in game and the only effects are told to you in the slide show. And why Fallout 4 gets unfairly labeled as having no real choices because it lacks that ending slide show to validate all of your actions and expand on them with a single sentence to give them an effect.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 21, 2020 1:34:11 GMT
Simple endings are boring and do not take multiple choices into account. If you want as simple ending then choices like Kill the Rachni Queen or Cure the Genophage MUST be removed. The whole simple=bad mentality regarding fiction was always something I found kind of weird, as if the only good and interesting endings are ones that are complicated and try hard to send some sort of deep message about something or other, or you have to sit there pondering on what the fuck just happened so you can reconcile the film in your head. Like, if it ain’t Mulholland Drive, then it’s just for simpletons, and absolute trash. I’m more about the execution than the message itself. If the execution is poor, then I couldn’t give a krogan queef about what the message is, because the way ideas are conveyed matter just as much as the ideas themselves. I don’t know if I’d be happy when my Amazon.com purchase comes early if it’s shot through my window by an air cannon. In this case though, simple has nothing to do with taking multiple choices into account, especially since the endings themselves do no such thing anyway. It’s more about the sudden inclusion of options that don’t really gel with what was going on throughout the game. Why does Shepard need to dissolve into the ether to do anything? Who the fuck knows. Just do it or you doom everyone to a future set in stone by a holographic mockery of your PTSD. If I helped Aria get her couch back, I get enough assets that I could screw over people and still get the same number of endings, and possibly have the privilege of waking up in a pile of space rubble. EDI and the geth might die, even though Garrus’ visor still lights up just fine. It’s like setting off a fairy dust EMP in my house and it only kills my Nintendos. Simple isn’t so much about the number of choices available, but rather about not adding last-minute complications that lack proper setup. If I wanted to be surprised with unpleasant changes at the very last minute, I could just spend more time with my family. The endings, as we have them, don’t account for Shepard’s actions at all throughout the trilogy. There’s no pivotal moment that culminates into the final scenes. What we get isn’t remotely complex, but does add needless complication. An important distinction between the endings and the Genophage decision is that its conclusion does hinge largely on our actions prior. We have setup. We can see it from the perspective of a krogan companion, then from the perspective of a salarian scientist who helped to modify it and see its effects on krogan society. Depending on what we do, we can drastically affect the leadership going forward prior to this decision, and we have what we need to really think about what path we might believe is best. There’s no sudden revelation that stops us in our tracks to derail our decision making in the final step of the genophage cure plot. That would be a cheap move that detracts from everything that came prior. It depends on the game or TV show. Mass Effect is a game that was about choice and about the reason and meaning of those choices and the (dumbed down to various degrees) complex nature of the galaxy and emotions and behavior. In the frist game you are presented with the Rachni Queen. The last one of a race that waged a galaxy wide war for decades that killed millions of people. And you are given the choice to end any threat they might pose OR spare her and give her a chance to rebuild her race and maybe change what they once were. Then you have Wrex who if you follow his story starts off as just some jaded mercenary who has given up all hope of helping his people. Who then has the spark of hope rekindled enough for him to actually try to help rebuild his people. Culminating with Wrex using the only chance his people will ever have the upper hand to get the cure for the Genophage. Not for some selfish revenge reason but because he genuinely wants to help his people and change them for the better in hopes they will not repeat the mistakes of the past. A game like this to have a simple Saturday morning cartoon ending is just an insult to how the game is set up. I'm fine with that for games like Ratchet and Clank or Doom. They are simple games that don't try to do anything beyond the scope of entertainment with their own little narrative. Ratchet and Clank might have big guns but there is no complex issues about if synthetic life should be treated as an equal to organic life in it. And while Doom might have you rushing though exploding demons like meat pinata but there is not slow haunting description of a former solider who's mind was broken from PTSD and what they had to do to survive. Killing an innocent little girl just to live with that girl hinted heavily to be related to one of the main characters. To give a game like that a simple ending is just wrong on so many levels to me.
This is why Shepard has to die in the end. It is the end of his story. He doesn't know that his choice will save the day. He will never live to see it he only has his faith that he made the right choice for the good of the galaxy. That is why I particularly hate the breath scene at the end of a high EMS destroy ending. And even control has Shepard as they were dead and their thoughts and memories merged with the Catalyst to create a new entity.
The ending to the game is set up very well. Nothing was new or unexpected to me. They never specify what the Crucible does as they make it clear they don't fully understand it and they only think and hope it is a Reaper killing weapon. Conflict between Organic and Synthetic is very clear and it is very clear the Geth hold a lot of the cards despite their limitations. It is also very clear the effect of Reaper meddling and how that has altered events and it is pretty easy to see what events would be like without Reaper intervention either directly or indirectly like the building of Mass Relays and the leaving of caches of tech from one cycle to the next.
The ending doens't need pivotal moments from the game before because those actions have already taken place. You have already freed the Rachni Queein, sacrificed someone at Virmire and sent them on their way as a full fledged Specture, Blew up the Collector's base, Cured the Genophage, etc, etc. The endings and particularly with EC play off the narrative themes of your Shepard. Casing a broad enough net to encompass pretty much any Shepard that should be possible to create. And I will fully agree the EC should have been the original ending and there shouldn't have been any need for a DLC free or not to change it into that.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Jul 21, 2020 1:48:54 GMT
A hero’s sacrifice works better when the reason they die makes sense. Too bad Shepard’s [possible] death makes no sense. Personally, I’m not much of a fan of a forced sacrifice in a game about making choices, especially if the means by which the character can die are poorly presented. There are some exceptions, like Lee in TWD was actually well presented and a very emotional scene, and it earns that ending. But here? Like, really, dissolving into the ether? That’s the best we get? What a fucking joke. Letting us choose survival is the least it can offer.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,292 Likes: 50,652
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,652
Iakus
21,292
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Jul 21, 2020 3:16:17 GMT
A hero’s sacrifice works better when the reason they die makes sense. Too bad Shepard’s [possible] death makes no sense. Personally, I’m not much of a fan of a forced sacrifice in a game about making choices, especially if the means by which the character can die are poorly presented. There are some exceptions, like Lee in TWD was actually well presented and a very emotional scene, and it earns that ending. But here? Like, really, dissolving into the ether? That’s the best we get? What a fucking joke. Letting us choose survival is the least it can offer. Sadly, the Mass Effect writers sneered at that, wrapped themselves in "artistic integrity" and claimed the audience was just "sad" or "didn't get it"
|
|
inherit
2754
0
Nov 27, 2024 10:56:35 GMT
6,018
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,312
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 21, 2020 4:52:17 GMT
A hero’s sacrifice works better when the reason they die makes sense. Too bad Shepard’s [possible] death makes no sense. Personally, I’m not much of a fan of a forced sacrifice in a game about making choices, especially if the means by which the character can die are poorly presented. There are some exceptions, like Lee in TWD was actually well presented and a very emotional scene, and it earns that ending. But here? Like, really, dissolving into the ether? That’s the best we get? What a fucking joke. Letting us choose survival is the least it can offer. Sadly, the Mass Effect writers sneered at that, wrapped themselves in "artistic integrity" and claimed the audience was just "sad" or "didn't get it" Wonder if they regret that choice.
|
|
ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 3,546
inherit
9886
0
3,546
ahglock
2,887
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
|
Post by ahglock on Jul 21, 2020 5:47:56 GMT
A hero’s sacrifice works better when the reason they die makes sense. Too bad Shepard’s [possible] death makes no sense. Personally, I’m not much of a fan of a forced sacrifice in a game about making choices, especially if the means by which the character can die are poorly presented. There are some exceptions, like Lee in TWD was actually well presented and a very emotional scene, and it earns that ending. But here? Like, really, dissolving into the ether? That’s the best we get? What a fucking joke. Letting us choose survival is the least it can offer. Bruce Willis sacrifice at the end of Armageddon was amazing.
Shepards was lame. So, if you want to do synthesis you have to electrocute yourself, if you want to control the reapers, throw yourself off a cliff into a disintegration beam(admittedly this one kind of makes sense), if you want destroy shoot these glass tubes, Um don't you have like a button or switch or something, this seems amazingly stupid design even for reapers? It was sacrifice just to say hey sacrificed himself.
|
|
ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 3,546
inherit
9886
0
3,546
ahglock
2,887
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
|
Post by ahglock on Jul 21, 2020 5:49:19 GMT
I just don’t see BioWare covering the exact same ground as before by remaking 3 whole games. It just seems like too risky a proposition. Like, would it be ME1: Remake, and then we have to wait for ME2’s version like a couple of years later? Would it be produced all at once? Personally? I would go Final Fantasy 7 Remake on it; make it episodic, expand on each part, incorporate the DLCs into the main games, sell each game for a $60, release them, hopefully, on a yearly basis. ME1:E1 would be the intro and first arrival at the Citadel, ends with Shepard taking command of the Normandy and flying off, in search of Saren. ME1:E2 would be the plots regarding Noveria, Feros etc. and would end before Virmire. ME1:E3 would be Virmire, Ilos, and the Battle of the Citadel. In E2, Bioware would have started adding planets to explore and would add more with each new episode. Which they would continue to do in ME2, as it would, essentially, be added on the original game. From there, you can have your live service quests, with Bounties on Pirates, or Slavers, or whatever outlaws and you'd get loot, get upgrades, expand your power tree maybe? We're gonna have loadouts and gear first Episode will bring our level up to 10 and from there we'd grind our gear score. Anyone that's played Destiny or Anthem or Division or the likes knows what I'm talking about. It'd be huge. If they could pull it off half as well as square did this would be great. I highly doubt that.
|
|
Radec
N3
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,319
inherit
10019
0
1,319
Radec
614
Mar 23, 2018 18:30:38 GMT
March 2018
radec
|
Post by Radec on Jul 21, 2020 6:08:45 GMT
Simple endings are boring and do not take multiple choices into account Well, the problem with the Crucible ending and its "multiple" endings, do not change much because of our previous choices, but rather present entirely new parameters that are disconnected from the choices leading up to that point. And while it is all attributed to the War Score, so there is a connection, it is also an indirect and faceless one. I mean, it really doesn't make much sense, does it? " Oooh! I see you recruited a bunch of Krogan. Well, that unlocks the Synthesis option." Awha? Why would ... how did the Krogan unlock the Synthesis option? Did they poor Ryncol on it? Was that a sound engineering practice? Maybe the shot it long enough and all the bullets piled up into it. Or they headbutted it, until it grew like a bump on your head. I don't fucking know. I keep drinking ever since. I'm down to my 3rd liver. I'm still looking for answers. There are none. Can exterminate the Rachni, lol as the Council dies, put your whole squad through a meat grinder in the Suicide Mission, sabotage the genophage and doom the krogan, slaughter the geth for the lulz, make absolutely no effort to acquire allies beyond the bare minimum you get from the main quest line yet still easily get the "good" synthesis ending because you promoted your Volus Vanguard in multiplayer 20 times This makes perfect sense. ME3 is a narrative and thematic masterpiece.
|
|
ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 3,546
inherit
9886
0
3,546
ahglock
2,887
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
|
Post by ahglock on Jul 21, 2020 6:45:05 GMT
Well, the problem with the Crucible ending and its "multiple" endings, do not change much because of our previous choices, but rather present entirely new parameters that are disconnected from the choices leading up to that point. And while it is all attributed to the War Score, so there is a connection, it is also an indirect and faceless one. I mean, it really doesn't make much sense, does it? " Oooh! I see you recruited a bunch of Krogan. Well, that unlocks the Synthesis option." Awha? Why would ... how did the Krogan unlock the Synthesis option? Did they poor Ryncol on it? Was that a sound engineering practice? Maybe the shot it long enough and all the bullets piled up into it. Or they headbutted it, until it grew like a bump on your head. I don't fucking know. I keep drinking ever since. I'm down to my 3rd liver. I'm still looking for answers. There are none. Can exterminate the Rachni, lol as the Council dies, put your whole squad through a meat grinder in the Suicide Mission, sabotage the genophage and doom the krogan, slaughter the geth for the lulz, make absolutely no effort to acquire allies beyond the bare minimum you get from the main quest line yet still easily get the "good" synthesis ending because you promoted your Volus Vanguard in multiplayer 20 times This makes perfect sense. ME3 is a narrative and thematic masterpiece. I think you are joking, but to be fair he was a Volus. And they turn the tides of war.
|
|
Radec
N3
Posts: 614 Likes: 1,319
inherit
10019
0
1,319
Radec
614
Mar 23, 2018 18:30:38 GMT
March 2018
radec
|
Post by Radec on Jul 21, 2020 7:04:14 GMT
Can exterminate the Rachni, lol as the Council dies, put your whole squad through a meat grinder in the Suicide Mission, sabotage the genophage and doom the krogan, slaughter the geth for the lulz, make absolutely no effort to acquire allies beyond the bare minimum you get from the main quest line yet still easily get the "good" synthesis ending because you promoted your Volus Vanguard in multiplayer 20 times This makes perfect sense. ME3 is a narrative and thematic masterpiece. I think you are joking, but to be fair he was a Volus. And they turn the tides of war. Biotic gods don't require war assets for victory, they simply think things, and they happen.
|
|
inherit
1817
0
Nov 27, 2024 12:32:48 GMT
11,092
Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
4,200
Oct 18, 2016 21:17:18 GMT
October 2016
kappaneko
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Kappa Neko on Jul 21, 2020 8:35:16 GMT
Just popping in to state that I liked the BSG ending and cried, lol.
My reaction to the ME3 endings: Omg they just copied the crappy cheap Deus Ex endings, WTF.
ANY ending "choice" that boils down to pushing a button at the very end and thus making your last savepoint grant you access to all endings is SHIT!
While I was really disappointed we never got to see the rachni sing songs to Shepard, I get that choices can't really matter all that much plot wise. But that's what ending slides are for. To give an outlook on a future after the plot ends. And these diverging futures can be anything as long as there isn't supposed to be a sequel (which was the case for the TRILOGY, I'm sure). The extended cut tried to SORT OF do that. Still, the ending choices were really BAD. The implementation was a joke. That said, your choices did matter. Just not for how to beat the reapers. Which is arguably bad. I would have preferred player choices to lead to ONE of the endings. I would rather have had NO choice at the end anymore but getting an ending that reflects my choices in some way, than this weird ass space magic nonsense that was totally detached from everything that came before. For some odd reason this was the case for a pure renegade evil Shepard. You're left with only one option in fact, destroy. Which kind of suggests that destroy is a bad choice... But let's not get into how BioWare was pushing the scary green ending on us.
It was a mess all right. The extended cut should have made things better but it didn't for me because the only way this nonsense at the end made ANY kind of sense to me was Indoctrination Theory, which went out the window. No, this nonsense is for real, people! We're having awakened husks. isn't this SPLENDID?! *troll face*
|
|