ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Oct 10, 2020 15:21:10 GMT
That’s what made me laugh about the Catalyst’s line “Even you are part synthetic.” Bitch, so is Garrus. And? Ugh, I swear to god, just thinking about how contrived Destroy is, in particular, really pisses me off. THe fact that Mac and Casey had the gall to go out of there way to rip the rules of the entire franchise apart one last time just so the red beam will selectively destroy particular synthetic people that you probably have emotional connections to, but not other synthetics that you don't know or care about, just for the simple fact of making shit "Darkier and Edgier" because their interpretations of thoughtful and mature appeared at the time to be that of a child. Yeah, half the alliance probably has some cybernetics, other species maybe even more so. Like I suspect all Asari out of childhood have one. They may be able to do biotics without having any, but they still need them to be effective on any practical scale.
I'd of been fine with a AI destroy button, sci-fi mumbo jumbo this wave of energy destroys the consciousness of AI which only can exist on there frequencies. But a reaper turn off button is the option that makes the most damn sense without it seeming like absurd space magic.
But dial space magic to 11000 and have some poorly done artsy ending with no set up is what they went with.
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Post by Phantom on Oct 10, 2020 15:46:51 GMT
You don't know them, and there's not enough time to explain. Wish there was a "take a baseball bat to Starkid's mainframe" choice. I am sure that many versions of Shepard would love to do that. Others would rather hack the Starbrat to be their slave
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Post by therevanchist25 on Oct 10, 2020 15:53:32 GMT
Ugh, I swear to god, just thinking about how contrived Destroy is, in particular, really pisses me off. THe fact that Mac and Casey had the gall to go out of there way to rip the rules of the entire franchise apart one last time just so the red beam will selectively destroy particular synthetic people that you probably have emotional connections to, but not other synthetics that you don't know or care about, just for the simple fact of making shit "Darkier and Edgier" because their interpretations of thoughtful and mature appeared at the time to be that of a child. Yeah, half the alliance probably has some cybernetics, other species maybe even more so. Like I suspect all Asari out of childhood have one. They may be able to do biotics without having any, but they still need them to be effective on any practical scale.
I'd of been fine with a AI destroy button, sci-fi mumbo jumbo this wave of energy destroys the consciousness of AI which only can exist on there frequencies. But a reaper turn off button is the option that makes the most damn sense without it seeming like absurd space magic.
But dial space magic to 11000 and have some poorly done artsy ending with no set up is what they went with.
I mean it's not like Reaper Code was it's own thing, that could be isolated from other programs around it. I mean that means Legion would be able to separate the Reaper Code from their programming in order to filter out the Control Signal embedded into the Code so that they.....wait a minute...
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Post by themikefest on Oct 10, 2020 15:54:43 GMT
You don't know them, and there's not enough time to explain. Wish there was a "take a baseball bat to Starkid's mainframe" choice. In a way there is, shooting the tube. It wasn't that line, but a lot of it's dialogue. To that line it said. it tells me it doesn't know who/what created the plans. It says it only knew about it for several cycles yet Vendetta says the plans have been passed down millions of years. If thing thought the concept was removed, then did it have the same problem for the last several cycles trying to get rid of it? Because ME3 is the best place to start playing a trilogy, the crucible never existed until the plans are found at the beginning of ME3. I would also guess the prothean cycle were the only ones to have made any attempt to build it. Another excuse for that line is Bioware is telling the player they have no idea about the origins of the plans. They thought it would be cool to put in the game. The other bits of dialogue from thing is...yeah sure...whatever you say. If it's preserving organics in reaper form, then why are they put in harm's way? It would be safe to say that when the first reaper was destroyed, the solution thing was using didn't work. But it didn't change because it's programming wouldn't let it. When talking about red, it says the chaos will return. Are you sure thing? Have you ever skipped a harvest to find out? When talking about the blue, it hesitates for a brief moment saying it would be forced to be replaced by Shepard. Sounds like it doesn't want that to happen. Then along comes green. I really believe the green was put in for comedians to use for their opening act to give the audience a good laugh. Thing butters green up. It can't be forced yet it's Shepard forcing it on the galaxy. It's the final evolution of all life. How does it know that? It all started with Leviathan. They suffer from politician syndrome, the big head, believing everything they say and do without considering what the consequences might be. So all the species over the last billion plus years have to suffer because of them. That's why using Hackett''s ending would be far better than what is currently in the game. It get's rid of all the above nonsense. One thing is what explanation would be given about the intelligence? When Hackett is in the hospital visiting Shepard, Shepard mentions Leviathan talking about an intelligence yet never encountered it when on the Citadel. That could be the next mission for Shepard, or a new main character, to track down this intelligence and destroy it.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 10, 2020 16:41:06 GMT
Ugh, I swear to god, just thinking about how contrived Destroy is, in particular, really pisses me off. THe fact that Mac and Casey had the gall to go out of there way to rip the rules of the entire franchise apart one last time just so the red beam will selectively destroy particular synthetic people that you probably have emotional connections to, but not other synthetics that you don't know or care about, just for the simple fact of making shit "Darkier and Edgier" because their interpretations of thoughtful and mature appeared at the time to be that of a child. Yeah, half the alliance probably has some cybernetics, other species maybe even more so. Like I suspect all Asari out of childhood have one. They may be able to do biotics without having any, but they still need them to be effective on any practical scale.
I'd of been fine with a AI destroy button, sci-fi mumbo jumbo this wave of energy destroys the consciousness of AI which only can exist on there frequencies. But a reaper turn off button is the option that makes the most damn sense without it seeming like absurd space magic.
But dial space magic to 11000 and have some poorly done artsy ending with no set up is what they went with.
Or an energy surge that drops their kinetic barriers and perhaps momentarily stuns them, leveling the playing field for the battle, and making the forces you spent the entire game building up actually MEAN something.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 10, 2020 17:55:32 GMT
And where's the "Update Starkid to Windows 10" ending? Oh man. Imagine installing Vista on Starkid. All the Reapers would just bluescreen. Galaxy fucking saved.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Oct 10, 2020 17:58:59 GMT
Yeah, half the alliance probably has some cybernetics, other species maybe even more so. Like I suspect all Asari out of childhood have one. They may be able to do biotics without having any, but they still need them to be effective on any practical scale.
I'd of been fine with a AI destroy button, sci-fi mumbo jumbo this wave of energy destroys the consciousness of AI which only can exist on there frequencies. But a reaper turn off button is the option that makes the most damn sense without it seeming like absurd space magic.
But dial space magic to 11000 and have some poorly done artsy ending with no set up is what they went with.
Or an energy surge that drops their kinetic barriers and perhaps momentarily stuns them, leveling the playing field for the battle, and making the forces you spent the entire game building up actually MEAN something. The ME2 should have been about finding -insert replacement name for McGuffin- that was a computer virus millions of years in the making by the cycles, and the Crucible used as the delivery system to brute force hack the Reapers to disable the Shields. Then ME3 focuses on building and decoding it while trying to hold the Reaper's back, very close to what actually happend. THen you use it, the Shields get disabled, then Sword Fleet grinds them into dust via minutes upon minutes of cutscenes while Hammer holds off Harbinger. IT WASN'T THAT HARD BIOWARE.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 10, 2020 18:16:58 GMT
Or an energy surge that drops their kinetic barriers and perhaps momentarily stuns them, leveling the playing field for the battle, and making the forces you spent the entire game building up actually MEAN something. How long would that moment last? Since it would be a one shot thing, the only thing that would happen is the reapers suffer more casualties. Once that moment is gone, their defenses fire back up. Depending on how long that moment is, it may have no effect. The fleets are seen retreating when the crucible fires. How long will it take for them to realize the reaper shields are down? By the time they figure it out, that moment is likely come and gone. If it's like what happens with Sovereign, then I say the reapers would become completely useless without being fired on. Sovereign wasn't able to do anything after it's defenses were disabled. It basically lost all power. If taking down the shields is a permanent thing, they still would win because they have the numbers. If Leviathan never happened, I would agree the possibility of defeating the reapers might be possible, but Leviathan gave the player information of how many reapers there might be. One way the fleets could defeat the reapers is if the shields are down permanently, is to have all fleets go system by system to deal with the reapers since the reapers are spread out all over the galaxy. Essentially use the reapers tactic by winning by overwhelming numbers. One downside to that is how long will it take for the reapers to realize that before they gather all their ships to go after the fleets?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2020 18:32:22 GMT
Building on what you said … instead of the crucible hitting all relays, it only effects the local star system … but nearly instantaneously. If the council forces know what it is doing, they wouldn't need to flee, but instead, pounce on the disabled Reapers in that system. Then, system by system, relay by relay, to a reverse harvest … until all the Reapers were destroyed.
If the Reapers really are disabled, them going dark to the other Reapers would hint to the others that something was happening, but not "what."
So building defenses to counter that would be negated … unless indoctrinated council forces communicated what had happened. That could "shock" be addressed in the story.
Then we'd see the slides of the countless decades that passed, until the Reaper threat was all but eliminated, with the small remaining forces fleeing back to dark space … giving council forces decades or centuries to update, modify, advance the crucible capability for that day when a smaller Reaper force might attempt a return … to include changing the tech of the relays to ignore Reaper commands or to beacon out to the council if a Reaper tried to engage a relay.
Lots of cool ideas … so much better that RBG … plus, given the decades, also explains the why of ending Shepard's saga … by the time the Reaper wars end, Shepard was a retired Admiral living life large in whatever location your Shepard had available, with whomever, based on your decisions in the trilogy.
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Post by Phantom on Oct 10, 2020 19:13:20 GMT
I would have eldritch abomination that is doubles as a eldritch location would be in dark space and tying leviathan in meeting this eldritch abomination
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 10, 2020 21:45:40 GMT
Or an energy surge that drops their kinetic barriers and perhaps momentarily stuns them, leveling the playing field for the battle, and making the forces you spent the entire game building up actually MEAN something. How long would that moment last? Since it would be a one shot thing, the only thing that would happen is the reapers suffer more casualties. Once that moment is gone, their defenses fire back up. Depending on how long that moment is, it may have no effect. The fleets are seen retreating when the crucible fires. How long will it take for them to realize the reaper shields are down? By the time they figure it out, that moment is likely come and gone. If it's like what happens with Sovereign, then I say the reapers would become completely useless without being fired on. Sovereign wasn't able to do anything after it's defenses were disabled. It basically lost all power. If taking down the shields is a permanent thing, they still would win because they have the numbers. If Leviathan never happened, I would agree the possibility of defeating the reapers might be possible, but Leviathan gave the player information of how many reapers there might be. One way the fleets could defeat the reapers is if the shields are down permanently, is to have all fleets go system by system to deal with the reapers since the reapers are spread out all over the galaxy. Essentially use the reapers tactic by winning by overwhelming numbers. One downside to that is how long will it take for the reapers to realize that before they gather all their ships to go after the fleets? Well really this is why the reapers are so poorly thought out as an antagonist in this kind of story. They're supposed to be thoroughly unbeatable in one moment, then suddenly we can beat them [somehow] in another. I really think that the fact that they had to take the long way round after the Prothean sabotage should have presented them with a good few more disadvantages as a result. Logically, there has to be a reason why their trap predicates on the element of surprise and taking the most efficient path possible to wiping out advanced civilizations. But, BioWare wanted to have its cake and eat it too. Gotta have that immense, endless supply of enemy ships, each nigh invincible, but then present some way to defeat them.
Personally, I'm fine with the Citadel somehow being key to stopping them, and I do find the idea of turning their own technology against them kind of appealing, and at least a tad poetic in a pretty simplistic way. I would've just done it without the cockamamie god in the machine dialogue at the end, which did little more than be a nuisance. At this point, we're already eyeballs deep in really cornball techno voodoo. Scaling it back to being some sort of Hivemind Shutdown Trope would be just fine for me. Take the reapers and their assorted monsters and just have them die. Who cares? Frankly, the ending choices are all pretty dumb, and the only truly important variations in the ending are the culmination of choices we made up to that point anyway.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Oct 10, 2020 22:04:15 GMT
Yeah, half the alliance probably has some cybernetics, other species maybe even more so. Like I suspect all Asari out of childhood have one. They may be able to do biotics without having any, but they still need them to be effective on any practical scale.
I'd of been fine with a AI destroy button, sci-fi mumbo jumbo this wave of energy destroys the consciousness of AI which only can exist on there frequencies. But a reaper turn off button is the option that makes the most damn sense without it seeming like absurd space magic.
But dial space magic to 11000 and have some poorly done artsy ending with no set up is what they went with.
Or an energy surge that drops their kinetic barriers and perhaps momentarily stuns them, leveling the playing field for the battle, and making the forces you spent the entire game building up actually MEAN something. That's always been one of my complaints about ME3. If the plot revolves around using a magic wand why does forming a alliance matter? And why would the effects of the magic wand differ based on these things. Just build the damn thing and use it, who cares is a bunch of crickets, turtles, frogs and angry blue ladies hate you. If the entire story is to build a army, the army should have some plot relevance.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 10, 2020 22:13:22 GMT
Or an energy surge that drops their kinetic barriers and perhaps momentarily stuns them, leveling the playing field for the battle, and making the forces you spent the entire game building up actually MEAN something. That's always been one of my complaints about ME3. If the plot revolves around using a magic wand why does forming a alliance matter? And why would the effects of the magic wand differ based on these things. Just build the damn thing and use it, who cares is a bunch of crickets, turtles, frogs and angry blue ladies hate you. If the entire story is to build a army, the army should have some plot relevance.
I'm sure a lot of that has to do with its promotional tagline "Take Back Earth", so basically it's kind of three plots in one, to build the lollipop of doom, get in fisticuffs with Cerberus, but also get aid to Palaven then Earth. It just so happens that the Cerberus plot magically makes the two other disparate plots converge in one convenient location.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 10, 2020 22:45:29 GMT
That's always been one of my complaints about ME3. If the plot revolves around using a magic wand why does forming a alliance matter? And why would the effects of the magic wand differ based on these things. Just build the damn thing and use it, who cares is a bunch of crickets, turtles, frogs and angry blue ladies hate you. If the entire story is to build a army, the army should have some plot relevance.
I'm sure a lot of that has to do with its promotional tagline "Take Back Earth", so basically it's kind of three plots in one, to build the lollipop of doom, get in fisticuffs with Cerberus, but also get aid to Palaven then Earth. It just so happens that the Cerberus plot magically makes the two other disparate plots converge in one convenient location.
The MET has been using magical plot points since ME2, so it's no surprise that the trend wouldn't continue into ME3.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Oct 10, 2020 23:02:36 GMT
Or an energy surge that drops their kinetic barriers and perhaps momentarily stuns them, leveling the playing field for the battle, and making the forces you spent the entire game building up actually MEAN something. How long would that moment last? Since it would be a one shot thing, the only thing that would happen is the reapers suffer more casualties. Once that moment is gone, their defenses fire back up. Depending on how long that moment is, it may have no effect. The fleets are seen retreating when the crucible fires. How long will it take for them to realize the reaper shields are down? By the time they figure it out, that moment is likely come and gone. If it's like what happens with Sovereign, then I say the reapers would become completely useless without being fired on. Sovereign wasn't able to do anything after it's defenses were disabled. It basically lost all power. If taking down the shields is a permanent thing, they still would win because they have the numbers. If Leviathan never happened, I would agree the possibility of defeating the reapers might be possible, but Leviathan gave the player information of how many reapers there might be. One way the fleets could defeat the reapers is if the shields are down permanently, is to have all fleets go system by system to deal with the reapers since the reapers are spread out all over the galaxy. Essentially use the reapers tactic by winning by overwhelming numbers. One downside to that is how long will it take for the reapers to realize that before they gather all their ships to go after the fleets? The Reapers only have numbers because Leviathan established they've been operating for a billion years or more. If the numbers of Reapers were more comparable to, say, the fleets of the Citadel Council, then the fight becomes more even once the Reaper defenses are down. The Reapers hit harder, but can no longer shrug off hits so easily.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 10, 2020 23:13:36 GMT
The Reapers only have numbers because Leviathan established they've been operating for a billion years or more. If the numbers of Reapers were more comparable to, say, the fleets of the Citadel Council, then the fight becomes more even once the Reaper defenses are down. The Reapers hit harder, but can no longer shrug off hits so easily. If the reapers have the same number as the galaxy, then it might be possible for them to be defeated. That all depends on how long that moment you mentioned lasts. Another thing I should have mentioned in my post is what would the fleets do if the reapers retreat to darkspace, knowing they might be defeated, to repair themselves? While they're being repaired, they come up with a countermeasure to avoid their shields/barriers to drop.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 10, 2020 23:21:44 GMT
The Reapers only have numbers because Leviathan established they've been operating for a billion years or more. If the numbers of Reapers were more comparable to, say, the fleets of the Citadel Council, then the fight becomes more even once the Reaper defenses are down. The Reapers hit harder, but can no longer shrug off hits so easily. If the reapers have the same number as the galaxy, then it might be possible for them to be defeated. That all depends on how long that moment you mentioned lasts. Another thing I should have mentioned in my post is what would the fleets do if the reapers retreat to darkspace, knowing they might be defeated, to repair themselves? While they're being repaired, they come up with a countermeasure to avoid their shields/barriers to drop. Why not launch a few thousand anti matter bombs from the Citadel Relay to wherever they go to after each cycle. Chances are that they'll flee there in order to repair and reorganize.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Oct 11, 2020 2:23:26 GMT
How long would that moment last? Since it would be a one shot thing, the only thing that would happen is the reapers suffer more casualties. Once that moment is gone, their defenses fire back up. Depending on how long that moment is, it may have no effect. The fleets are seen retreating when the crucible fires. How long will it take for them to realize the reaper shields are down? By the time they figure it out, that moment is likely come and gone. If it's like what happens with Sovereign, then I say the reapers would become completely useless without being fired on. Sovereign wasn't able to do anything after it's defenses were disabled. It basically lost all power. If taking down the shields is a permanent thing, they still would win because they have the numbers. If Leviathan never happened, I would agree the possibility of defeating the reapers might be possible, but Leviathan gave the player information of how many reapers there might be. One way the fleets could defeat the reapers is if the shields are down permanently, is to have all fleets go system by system to deal with the reapers since the reapers are spread out all over the galaxy. Essentially use the reapers tactic by winning by overwhelming numbers. One downside to that is how long will it take for the reapers to realize that before they gather all their ships to go after the fleets? The Reapers only have numbers because Leviathan established they've been operating for a billion years or more. If the numbers of Reapers were more comparable to, say, the fleets of the Citadel Council, then the fight becomes more even once the Reaper defenses are down. The Reapers hit harder, but can no longer shrug off hits so easily. That is the thing I've never understood from defenders of the "They are too powerful!" camp. If you honestly expect me to believe, that the Reapers have, literally, the numbers to darken the sky of every world, as Sovereign suggested, and as implied by ME3....then WHY in gods name, did they EVER fucking bother with the Citadel Relay trap? "To conserve energy obviously!" I've heard before...why? the energy they burned getting here using FTL made absolutely no fucking difference. "To make the invasion easier" is another famous rebuttal. While this is not an untrue statement, it's missing the forest for the trees. If you literally have the numbers to invade EVERY SINGLE PLANET IN THE ENTIRE GALAXY AT THE SAME TIME, COMMITING A DOZEN CAPITAL SHIPS AT LEAST TO EVERY CAPITAL WORLD, why the fuck would you ever bother with strategy, or tactics? The whole point of the Relay trap was to divide the galaxy, to prevent an organized defense, which implies that the Reapers consider an organized defense a serious threat to their success, otherwise they wouldn't do that, period. Ignoring the fact that it's mathematically impossible to invade the ENTIRE GALAXY AT THE SAME TIME, unless you literally have like a BILLION ships. I want you to honestly think about how huge the galaxy actually is. I'm sorry, if your gonna step to me with that "Nah bruh, you can still use tactics if you have superior numbers, and I have proof from ancient battle x, y and z to prove my point" Well congrats, you're not wrong, you CAN. But the Reapers wouldn't, because in their eyes we are bacteria, Harbinger literally said that in ME2. Do you imply a big strategy to destroy an ant hill? to kill the bacteria of your bathroom with cleaning solution? No, you just wipe that weak ass shit away. If the Reapers are NO REALLY, ACTUALLY this stupidly powerful, then the Citadel Relay trap is complete and utter hogwash. The opposite is also true. If the Reaper's went through all that trouble to create that trap to begin with, that means, definitively, when the Relay Trap was written, the Reapers were NOT this stupidly powerful, and Sovereign was full of crap. Again, going back to the franchise having no plan at all.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 11, 2020 3:06:17 GMT
The only reason the galaxy had the chance to destroy the reapers was because Bioware made the reapers stupid. ME3 shows that. Why didn't the destroyer fire on the SR2 instead of the two shuttles? Why didn't the reapers post a few capital ships at each relay preventing any council ship from leaving and prevent any reinforcements to come to that species assistance? Why didn't the destroyer on Tuchanka and Rannoch fire their red beam of doom horizontally instead of vertically? Why didn't any of the capital ships pull a Sovereign? Remember what the reaper did to that turian ship when approaching the Citadel? Why didn't they take the Citadel when they entered the galaxy? What if the arms are closed? So what. The reapers have time on their side. Having the reapers posted at the Citadel will prevent any council ship docking for whatever reason. Why didn't the reapers direct their firepower at the crucible when it was approaching the Citadel? Did they know what it would do before hand? Too bad that question couldn't be asked to thing to know. Why didn't the reapers shutoff the beam so no organic can use it? Why didn't Harbinger fire at the SR2?
Having the Citadel relay to use to begin a harvest makes sense. It catches the galaxy off guard. By the time they realize what is going on, it's too late. What I like to know is how the prothean scientists were able to alter the signal as well know there was a signal to begin with. Why didn't thing do anything about that? Because it never existed until the last 10 minutes of ME3.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Oct 11, 2020 4:13:36 GMT
The only reason the galaxy had the chance to destroy the reapers was because Bioware made the reapers stupid. ME3 shows that. Why didn't the destroyer fire on the SR2 instead of the two shuttles? Why didn't the reapers post a few capital ships at each relay preventing any council ship from leaving and prevent any reinforcements to come to that species assistance? Why didn't the destroyer on Tuchanka and Rannoch fire their red beam of doom horizontally instead of vertically? Why didn't any of the capital ships pull a Sovereign? Remember what the reaper did to that turian ship when approaching the Citadel? Why didn't they take the Citadel when they entered the galaxy? What if the arms are closed? So what. The reapers have time on their side. Having the reapers posted at the Citadel will prevent any council ship docking for whatever reason. Why didn't the reapers direct their firepower at the crucible when it was approaching the Citadel? Did they know what it would do before hand? Too bad that question couldn't be asked to thing to know. Why didn't the reapers shutoff the beam so no organic can use it? Why didn't Harbinger fire at the SR2? Having the Citadel relay to use to begin a harvest makes sense. It catches the galaxy off guard. By the time they realize what is going on, it's too late. What I like to know is how the prothean scientists were able to alter the signal as well know there was a signal to begin with. Why didn't thing do anything about that? Because it never existed until the last 10 minutes of ME3. Too late as opposed to what? ME 3 implies it does not fucking matter if you know their coming or not. It makes zero fucking difference. The galaxy knew the Reapers were coming and get steamrolled regardless. The Relay trap is the most worthless waste of resources I've ever seen.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 11, 2020 6:02:21 GMT
The only reason the galaxy had the chance to destroy the reapers was because Bioware made the reapers stupid. ME3 shows that. Why didn't the destroyer fire on the SR2 instead of the two shuttles? Why didn't the reapers post a few capital ships at each relay preventing any council ship from leaving and prevent any reinforcements to come to that species assistance? Why didn't the destroyer on Tuchanka and Rannoch fire their red beam of doom horizontally instead of vertically? Why didn't any of the capital ships pull a Sovereign? Remember what the reaper did to that turian ship when approaching the Citadel? Why didn't they take the Citadel when they entered the galaxy? What if the arms are closed? So what. The reapers have time on their side. Having the reapers posted at the Citadel will prevent any council ship docking for whatever reason. Why didn't the reapers direct their firepower at the crucible when it was approaching the Citadel? Did they know what it would do before hand? Too bad that question couldn't be asked to thing to know. Why didn't the reapers shutoff the beam so no organic can use it? Why didn't Harbinger fire at the SR2? Having the Citadel relay to use to begin a harvest makes sense. It catches the galaxy off guard. By the time they realize what is going on, it's too late. What I like to know is how the prothean scientists were able to alter the signal as well know there was a signal to begin with. Why didn't thing do anything about that? Because it never existed until the last 10 minutes of ME3. Too late as opposed to what? ME 3 implies it does not fucking matter if you know their coming or not. It makes zero fucking difference. The galaxy knew the Reapers were coming and get steamrolled regardless. The Relay trap is the most worthless waste of resources I've ever seen. ME1 led us to believe the Reapers were ambush predators. Strong, yes, specifically NOT invincible. They NEEDED a decapitation strike and indoctrination because they COULDN'T face a united galaxy in a toe to toe battle. Or at least victory would not be certain ME3 instead turned them into an infinite and invincible fleet, going so far as to patch out the one weakness Shepard had been able to exploit thus far. The entire relay ambush tactic was rendered pointless. In fact they hadn't even bothered with the Citadel at all until they learned that "oh crap, the hairless monkeys have nearly finished the Crucible!" their invasion would have gone a lot smoother if they had blitzed the Citadel like they always had before. No way could the Council races have maintained lines of communicatiob, coordinate their efforts, pool resources, or support each other in any meaningful way.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 11, 2020 6:04:24 GMT
Why didn't the reapers direct their firepower at the crucible when it was approaching the Citadel? Did they know what it would do before hand?
Funny thing is that they actually do this if you stand around and dawdle at the decision chamber too long and it's an auto fail state.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 11, 2020 6:11:02 GMT
Too late as opposed to what? ME 3 implies it does not fucking matter if you know their coming or not. It makes zero fucking difference. The galaxy knew the Reapers were coming and get steamrolled regardless. The Relay trap is the most worthless waste of resources I've ever seen. ME1 led us to believe the Reapers were ambush predators. Strong, yes, specifically NOT invincible. They NEEDED a decapitation strike and indoctrination because they COULDN'T face a united galaxy in a toe to toe battle. Or at least victory would not be certain ME3 instead turned them into an infinite and invincible fleet, going so far as to patch out the one weakness Shepard had been able to exploit thus far. The entire relay ambush tactic was rendered pointless. In fact they hadn't even bothered with the Citadel at all until they learned that "oh crap, the hairless monkeys have nearly finished the Crucible!" their invasion would have gone a lot smoother if they had blitzed the Citadel like they always had before. No way could the Council races have maintained lines of communicatiob, coordinate their efforts, pool resources, or support each other in any meaningful way. I really wish I knew exactly what kind of communication the Illusive Man was even able to have with the reapers, since he was the one that tattled on everyone about the Crucible. Did he just call them up on Skype? A text message? "Citadel is catalyst. ttyl bby xx"
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Post by garrusfan1 on Oct 11, 2020 12:47:55 GMT
Yeah, half the alliance probably has some cybernetics, other species maybe even more so. Like I suspect all Asari out of childhood have one. They may be able to do biotics without having any, but they still need them to be effective on any practical scale.
I'd of been fine with a AI destroy button, sci-fi mumbo jumbo this wave of energy destroys the consciousness of AI which only can exist on there frequencies. But a reaper turn off button is the option that makes the most damn sense without it seeming like absurd space magic.
But dial space magic to 11000 and have some poorly done artsy ending with no set up is what they went with.
Or an energy surge that drops their kinetic barriers and perhaps momentarily stuns them, leveling the playing field for the battle, and making the forces you spent the entire game building up actually MEAN something. EXACTLY! This is what I think they should have done. Once you knock out their shields the reapers would get torn apart and it would work. Even if it didn't destroy every single reaper it would destroy the vast majority and then make the victory possible.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Oct 11, 2020 12:58:05 GMT
The Reapers only have numbers because Leviathan established they've been operating for a billion years or more. If the numbers of Reapers were more comparable to, say, the fleets of the Citadel Council, then the fight becomes more even once the Reaper defenses are down. The Reapers hit harder, but can no longer shrug off hits so easily. That is the thing I've never understood from defenders of the "They are too powerful!" camp. If you honestly expect me to believe, that the Reapers have, literally, the numbers to darken the sky of every world, as Sovereign suggested, and as implied by ME3....then WHY in gods name, did they EVER fucking bother with the Citadel Relay trap? "To conserve energy obviously!" I've heard before...why? the energy they burned getting here using FTL made absolutely no fucking difference. "To make the invasion easier" is another famous rebuttal. While this is not an untrue statement, it's missing the forest for the trees. If you literally have the numbers to invade EVERY SINGLE PLANET IN THE ENTIRE GALAXY AT THE SAME TIME, COMMITING A DOZEN CAPITAL SHIPS AT LEAST TO EVERY CAPITAL WORLD, why the fuck would you ever bother with strategy, or tactics? The whole point of the Relay trap was to divide the galaxy, to prevent an organized defense, which implies that the Reapers consider an organized defense a serious threat to their success, otherwise they wouldn't do that, period. Ignoring the fact that it's mathematically impossible to invade the ENTIRE GALAXY AT THE SAME TIME, unless you literally have like a BILLION ships. I want you to honestly think about how huge the galaxy actually is. I'm sorry, if your gonna step to me with that "Nah bruh, you can still use tactics if you have superior numbers, and I have proof from ancient battle x, y and z to prove my point" Well congrats, you're not wrong, you CAN. But the Reapers wouldn't, because in their eyes we are bacteria, Harbinger literally said that in ME2. Do you imply a big strategy to destroy an ant hill? to kill the bacteria of your bathroom with cleaning solution? No, you just wipe that weak ass shit away. If the Reapers are NO REALLY, ACTUALLY this stupidly powerful, then the Citadel Relay trap is complete and utter hogwash. The opposite is also true. If the Reaper's went through all that trouble to create that trap to begin with, that means, definitively, when the Relay Trap was written, the Reapers were NOT this stupidly powerful, and Sovereign was full of crap. Again, going back to the franchise having no plan at all. I realize what you are saying and personally believe soverign overstated their numbers. However when you do overwhelming tactics you still lose people. So while yes they would undoubtedly win it would cost them more. A little bit of tactics and they hardly ever lose someone. It's like how the soviets fought the germans in WW2. Yeah the overwhelming tactics worked but they lost so many people doing it. If the americans had taken berlin it would have cost the allies maybe ten thousand instead of the soviets taking it and losing a hundred thousand men while fighting children and old men. So think of it that way. Yes we would be beaten by the reapers without question it would make them lose people.
On the other hand they employ some tactics and boom they lose very few and could probably go several cycles without losing a reaper. Why fight harder when you can fight smarter.
While they think organics are weaker I don't think harbingers trash talk about bacteria was their real idea on how tough organics are.
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