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Post by garrusfan1 on Oct 11, 2020 13:01:22 GMT
ME1 led us to believe the Reapers were ambush predators. Strong, yes, specifically NOT invincible. They NEEDED a decapitation strike and indoctrination because they COULDN'T face a united galaxy in a toe to toe battle. Or at least victory would not be certain ME3 instead turned them into an infinite and invincible fleet, going so far as to patch out the one weakness Shepard had been able to exploit thus far. The entire relay ambush tactic was rendered pointless. In fact they hadn't even bothered with the Citadel at all until they learned that "oh crap, the hairless monkeys have nearly finished the Crucible!" their invasion would have gone a lot smoother if they had blitzed the Citadel like they always had before. No way could the Council races have maintained lines of communicatiob, coordinate their efforts, pool resources, or support each other in any meaningful way. I really wish I knew exactly what kind of communication the Illusive Man was even able to have with the reapers, since he was the one that tattled on everyone about the Crucible. Did he just call them up on Skype? A text message? "Citadel is catalyst. ttyl bby xx" I always thought that he put out a message on occupied land on unsecured communications or in multiple places. I have to believe the reapers were monitoring communications.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 11, 2020 13:43:58 GMT
Too late as opposed to what? ME 3 implies it does not fucking matter if you know their coming or not. It makes zero fucking difference. The galaxy knew the Reapers were coming and get steamrolled regardless. The Relay trap is the most worthless waste of resources I've ever seen. ME1 led us to believe the Reapers were ambush predators. Strong, yes, specifically NOT invincible. They NEEDED a decapitation strike and indoctrination because they COULDN'T face a united galaxy in a toe to toe battle. Or at least victory would not be certain ME3 instead turned them into an infinite and invincible fleet, going so far as to patch out the one weakness Shepard had been able to exploit thus far. The entire relay ambush tactic was rendered pointless. In fact they hadn't even bothered with the Citadel at all until they learned that "oh crap, the hairless monkeys have nearly finished the Crucible!" their invasion would have gone a lot smoother if they had blitzed the Citadel like they always had before. No way could the Council races have maintained lines of communicatiob, coordinate their efforts, pool resources, or support each other in any meaningful way. I don't think ME3 made the Reapers that much more powerful then in Mass Effect 1. In ME1 it took almost the entire Alliance Fleet along with the defense ships of The Citadel to destroy Sovereign and that was only after you defeated or maybe interrupted its AI. They demonstrated that the Reapers were still about that strong with what it took for Shepard to destroy the Reapers in the encounters he had with them during Mass Effect 3 such has needing nearly the entire Quarian Fleet to destroy one Reaper. What we didn't see in Mass Effect 1 was the number of Reapers to back Sovereign's claims of how many there were, but the claim of there being a lot of them was made.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 11, 2020 14:59:09 GMT
If the reapers have the same number as the galaxy, then it might be possible for them to be defeated. That all depends on how long that moment you mentioned lasts. Another thing I should have mentioned in my post is what would the fleets do if the reapers retreat to darkspace, knowing they might be defeated, to repair themselves? While they're being repaired, they come up with a countermeasure to avoid their shields/barriers to drop. Why not launch a few thousand anti matter bombs from the Citadel Relay to wherever they go to after each cycle. Chances are that they'll flee there in order to repair and reorganize. They have no idea where the reapers go in darkspace. So how would the fleets find them? Use the Citadel relay. How much damage did it take when the crucible fired causing the reapers to lose their shields/barriers? Don't know. I will assume it caused some power outages around the station. I would have the council select engineers and scientists to search the Citadel to find this signal that the prothean scientists were able to alter to reverse what they did. While that happens, investigate any of the destroyed reapers for any clues where in darkspace they are. Since the derelict reaper in ME2 has an IFF, I would say that is needed to use the Citadel relay. Why I say that? Why would it need the IFF if was for the Omega 4 relay? Was the Omega 4 relay around 37 million years ago? At the same time the navigation systems are searched on the reapers for more clues. How would it take before using the Citadel relay? No idea. Lets say 6 months. I would send as many ships through the relay as possible to deal with the reapers. Of course before using the relay I would send recon drones through first to get an idea of what the fleets might encounter. Too late as opposed to what? ME 3 implies it does not fucking matter if you know their coming or not. It makes zero fucking difference. The galaxy knew the Reapers were coming and get steamrolled regardless. The Relay trap is the most worthless waste of resources I've ever seen. Too late to alert anyone about reapers attacking for them to put up any counterattack. Look at ME3. Had the signal not been altered, the galaxy would have been harvested long before Shepard showed up when Sovereign first tried to use the Citadel relay. The relay trap works. Once the reapers come through, they wipe out what species is occupying it without giving them a chance to inform anyone of the invasion. It also gives the reapers control of the relay network cutting off each system from helping each other. Look at ME3. The reapers suffered x number of casualties. Read the codex to get an idea of how many they might have suffered. This cycle also is able to use the relays. If the reapers came through the Citadel, and then taking control of the relay network, how long would it take for the SR2 to travel to the Citadel from Mars? To Palaven? The other homeworlds? The only reason this cycle knew about the reapers was because of the prothean scientists, with help from plot, altering the signal delaying the invasion. No matter how powerful one is, you want to have as few casualties as possible. their invasion would have gone a lot smoother if they had blitzed the Citadel like they always had before. No way could the Council races have maintained lines of communicatiob, coordinate their efforts, pool resources, or support each other in any meaningful way. While true, it would have been easier to just travel to the Milky Way when Sovereign failed to open the relay. Of course thing could have done something since it is part of the Citadel. Oh that's right. It never existed until the final 10 minutes of ME3. Funny thing is that they actually do this if you stand around and dawdle at the decision chamber too long and it's an auto fail state. That was before the extended cut was released, was it not? I don't think ME3 made the Reapers that much more powerful then in Mass Effect 1. In ME1 it took almost the entire Alliance Fleet along with the defense ships of The Citadel to destroy Sovereign and that was only after you defeated or maybe interrupted its AI. I don't agree with that. The fight with the reaper was lame. After the reaper lost it's defenses, it still wasn't taking any damage when it was being fired at. It wasn't until the itsy-bitsy-teenie-weenie frigate, SR1, with a fighter on each side, to damage and destroy the reaper. The whole thing was setup for the SR1 to destroy the reaper. Look at ME3. When firing at the reapers above Earth, and ems is above 2300, an Alliance ship is seen firing two shots destroying two legs on a capital ship. Why didn't that happen in ME1 when fighting Sovereign? Entire fleet? No. Just because Shepard says the entire fleet doesn't mean the entire fleet was firing at the reaper. If anything, it was about 5-6 ships that fired at the reaper. If it was the entire fleet, you would have seen many, many more rounds hitting the reaper.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Oct 11, 2020 15:48:51 GMT
Too late as opposed to what? ME 3 implies it does not fucking matter if you know their coming or not. It makes zero fucking difference. The galaxy knew the Reapers were coming and get steamrolled regardless. The Relay trap is the most worthless waste of resources I've ever seen. ME1 led us to believe the Reapers were ambush predators. Strong, yes, specifically NOT invincible. They NEEDED a decapitation strike and indoctrination because they COULDN'T face a united galaxy in a toe to toe battle. Or at least victory would not be certain ME3 instead turned them into an infinite and invincible fleet, going so far as to patch out the one weakness Shepard had been able to exploit thus far. The entire relay ambush tactic was rendered pointless. In fact they hadn't even bothered with the Citadel at all until they learned that "oh crap, the hairless monkeys have nearly finished the Crucible!" their invasion would have gone a lot smoother if they had blitzed the Citadel like they always had before. No way could the Council races have maintained lines of communicatiob, coordinate their efforts, pool resources, or support each other in any meaningful way. Its why I wish they had not allowed Reapers to easily fly through dark space. Give them a similar problem other ships have where they need to discharge or they blow up. Have like 90% of their fleet destroyed in transit, as they discharge into their own fleet in order to survive, now the fight becomes possible. And shepards various moves delaying them actually has meaning.
Maybe they can hide in the galaxy and try to rebuild enough to win but that could easily take long enough so they might not have the tech edge any longer or AI would advance too far for their programming to allow, so story wise that's why they make the push then. I mean its like 1 reaper per civilization, and its not a quick process even then.
Have the reapers take the citadel first, have them act smarter in the fight. The whole gather forces thing can still be the plot, the normandy is flying round about methods without relays to the various civilizations going through uncharted space. Now the gathering forces thing makes sense as you have a winable fight with your forces gathered. Maybe the final mission is a commando run on the citadel to reactivate all the relays so the allied forces can attack the main reaper force at the citadel.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 11, 2020 16:20:11 GMT
ME1 led us to believe the Reapers were ambush predators. Strong, yes, specifically NOT invincible. They NEEDED a decapitation strike and indoctrination because they COULDN'T face a united galaxy in a toe to toe battle. Or at least victory would not be certain ME3 instead turned them into an infinite and invincible fleet, going so far as to patch out the one weakness Shepard had been able to exploit thus far. The entire relay ambush tactic was rendered pointless. In fact they hadn't even bothered with the Citadel at all until they learned that "oh crap, the hairless monkeys have nearly finished the Crucible!" their invasion would have gone a lot smoother if they had blitzed the Citadel like they always had before. No way could the Council races have maintained lines of communicatiob, coordinate their efforts, pool resources, or support each other in any meaningful way. Its why I wish they had not allowed Reapers to easily fly through dark space. Give them a similar problem other ships have where they need to discharge or they blow up. Have like 90% of their fleet destroyed in transit, as they discharge into their own fleet in order to survive, now the fight becomes possible. And shepards various moves delaying them actually has meaning.
Maybe they can hide in the galaxy and try to rebuild enough to win but that could easily take long enough so they might not have the tech edge any longer or AI would advance too far for their programming to allow, so story wise that's why they make the push then. I mean its like 1 reaper per civilization, and its not a quick process even then.
Have the reapers take the citadel first, have them act smarter in the fight. The whole gather forces thing can still be the plot, the normandy is flying round about methods without relays to the various civilizations going through uncharted space. Now the gathering forces thing makes sense as you have a winable fight with your forces gathered. Maybe the final mission is a commando run on the citadel to reactivate all the relays so the allied forces can attack the main reaper force at the citadel. I think the game is caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to establishing an actual reaper war. As a game and for sake of retaining some signature hub zone, they want the Citadel to be an intact location for most of it. There’s Omega, but unfortunately it’s just a shithole slum on an asteroid and would probably not be a suitable locale to have all the important stuff happen. The only reasonable alternative then is a new location, a big space station that’s hidden where the Alliance fleets could coordinate their efforts with other races. Regardless, the problem with taking the Citadel first is that it stops any effort to fight the reapers dead in their tracks. Even if it was like, 5 reapers that invaded the galaxy, losing the galactic superhighway system kneecaps all of the galactic forces. I think maybe it would’ve been better to play up the indoctrinated forces angle more. Not just have it be Cerberus doing everything, or maybe Cerberus shouldn’t have been an enemy faction at all. Maybe even have the entire batarian race become thralls of the reapers, similarly to the Collectors, and other assorted agents that try to sabotage efforts to fight the reapers. I would have much preferred the reapers still be more in the background throughout more of the game, and just let the reapers attempt to let everyone tear themselves apart in in-fighting while they gather strength as a result of their having to take the long route to the galaxy.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 11, 2020 16:37:14 GMT
ME1 led us to believe the Reapers were ambush predators. Strong, yes, specifically NOT invincible. They NEEDED a decapitation strike and indoctrination because they COULDN'T face a united galaxy in a toe to toe battle. Or at least victory would not be certain ME3 instead turned them into an infinite and invincible fleet, going so far as to patch out the one weakness Shepard had been able to exploit thus far. The entire relay ambush tactic was rendered pointless. In fact they hadn't even bothered with the Citadel at all until they learned that "oh crap, the hairless monkeys have nearly finished the Crucible!" their invasion would have gone a lot smoother if they had blitzed the Citadel like they always had before. No way could the Council races have maintained lines of communicatiob, coordinate their efforts, pool resources, or support each other in any meaningful way. I don't think ME3 made the Reapers that much more powerful then in Mass Effect 1. In ME1 it took almost the entire Alliance Fleet along with the defense ships of The Citadel to destroy Sovereign and that was only after you defeated or maybe interrupted its AI. They demonstrated that the Reapers were still about that strong with what it took for Shepard to destroy the Reapers in the encounters he had with them during Mass Effect 3 such has needing nearly the entire Quarian Fleet to destroy one Reaper. What we didn't see in Mass Effect 1 was the number of Reapers to back Sovereign's claims of how many there were, but the claim of there being a lot of them was made. Died easily enough once its barriers were down.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 11, 2020 16:44:18 GMT
ME1 led us to believe the Reapers were ambush predators. Strong, yes, specifically NOT invincible. They NEEDED a decapitation strike and indoctrination because they COULDN'T face a united galaxy in a toe to toe battle. Or at least victory would not be certain ME3 instead turned them into an infinite and invincible fleet, going so far as to patch out the one weakness Shepard had been able to exploit thus far. The entire relay ambush tactic was rendered pointless. In fact they hadn't even bothered with the Citadel at all until they learned that "oh crap, the hairless monkeys have nearly finished the Crucible!" their invasion would have gone a lot smoother if they had blitzed the Citadel like they always had before. No way could the Council races have maintained lines of communicatiob, coordinate their efforts, pool resources, or support each other in any meaningful way. I don't think ME3 made the Reapers that much more powerful then in Mass Effect 1. In ME1 it took almost the entire Alliance Fleet along with the defense ships of The Citadel to destroy Sovereign and that was only after you defeated or maybe interrupted its AI. They demonstrated that the Reapers were still about that strong with what it took for Shepard to destroy the Reapers in the encounters he had with them during Mass Effect 3 such has needing nearly the entire Quarian Fleet to destroy one Reaper. What we didn't see in Mass Effect 1 was the number of Reapers to back Sovereign's claims of how many there were, but the claim of there being a lot of them was made. The reapers’ power always felt arbitrary, like their scaling depended on whatever the plot required at any given time. In ME1, there was at least some implied vulnerability on their part that the Prothean sabotage exposed them to if they wanted to keep this harvest going, which is why Sovereign futzed about with Saren and the geth for so long doing these little errands rather than just attack everyone directly. But then suddenly it’s so powerful it can just bumrush the Citadel and sit there tanking all this damage, only to get put in a coma because it stupidly decided it wanted to fight Shepard on their puny level even when it technically didn’t have to. The thing that’s so odd about that scene is that Shepard didn’t really have a way to stop Sovereign’s tentacle porn hijacking of the Citadel. There was no button or control panel to fight over at that point. So other than to have that last boss fight, why even bother?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 11, 2020 16:44:20 GMT
Its why I wish they had not allowed Reapers to easily fly through dark space. Give them a similar problem other ships have where they need to discharge or they blow up. Have like 90% of their fleet destroyed in transit, as they discharge into their own fleet in order to survive, now the fight becomes possible. And shepards various moves delaying them actually has meaning.
Maybe they can hide in the galaxy and try to rebuild enough to win but that could easily take long enough so they might not have the tech edge any longer or AI would advance too far for their programming to allow, so story wise that's why they make the push then. I mean its like 1 reaper per civilization, and its not a quick process even then.
Have the reapers take the citadel first, have them act smarter in the fight. The whole gather forces thing can still be the plot, the normandy is flying round about methods without relays to the various civilizations going through uncharted space. Now the gathering forces thing makes sense as you have a winable fight with your forces gathered. Maybe the final mission is a commando run on the citadel to reactivate all the relays so the allied forces can attack the main reaper force at the citadel. I think the game is caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to establishing an actual reaper war. As a game and for sake of retaining some signature hub zone, they want the Citadel to be an intact location for most of it. There’s Omega, but unfortunately it’s just a shithole slum on an asteroid and would probably not be a suitable locale to have all the important stuff happen. The only reasonable alternative then is a new location, a big space station that’s hidden where the Alliance fleets could coordinate their efforts with other races. Regardless, the problem with taking the Citadel first is that it stops any effort to fight the reapers dead in their tracks. Even if it was like, 5 reapers that invaded the galaxy, losing the galactic superhighway system kneecaps all of the galactic forces. I think maybe it would’ve been better to play up the indoctrinated forces angle more. Not just have it be Cerberus doing everything, or maybe Cerberus shouldn’t have been an enemy faction at all. Maybe even have the entire batarian race become thralls of the reapers, similarly to the Collectors, and other assorted agents that try to sabotage efforts to fight the reapers. I would have much preferred the reapers still be more in the background throughout more of the game, and just let the reapers attempt to let everyone tear themselves apart in in-fighting while they gather strength as a result of their having to take the long route to the galaxy. That would have been better, and it plays into their divide and conquer tactics.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 11, 2020 16:46:52 GMT
I don't think ME3 made the Reapers that much more powerful then in Mass Effect 1. In ME1 it took almost the entire Alliance Fleet along with the defense ships of The Citadel to destroy Sovereign and that was only after you defeated or maybe interrupted its AI. They demonstrated that the Reapers were still about that strong with what it took for Shepard to destroy the Reapers in the encounters he had with them during Mass Effect 3 such has needing nearly the entire Quarian Fleet to destroy one Reaper. What we didn't see in Mass Effect 1 was the number of Reapers to back Sovereign's claims of how many there were, but the claim of there being a lot of them was made. Died easily enough once its barriers were down. Heck, the barriers didn’t just go down. It got knocked out like a Pokemon once Superhopper Saren got taken out. I like how Harbinger was totally immune to this every time you took out a flaming Collector.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 11, 2020 16:57:57 GMT
Died easily enough once its barriers were down. Heck, the barriers didn’t just go down. It got knocked out like a Pokemon once Superhopper Saren got taken out. I like how Harbinger was totally immune to this every time you took out a flaming Collector. It could be that Sov put too much of itself into the Superhopper, that caused a massive backlash into its systems when the Superhopper was destroyed. As for Harbinger, it's likely that it doesn't fully put itself into the Collectors when it possesses them, meaning that it doesn't suffer from the backlash that Sov suffered from. But that's just a guess.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 11, 2020 17:28:21 GMT
What if the reapers aren't able to get into the Milky Way without using the Citadel relay? Virgil says the reapers are hibernating. So let them. Until the Citadel relay is activated, they remain in darkspace. What could happen is in ME1, Sovereign isn't destroyed, but leaves the battle after suffering damage. ME2 would play out the same except it's Sovereign controlling the collectors to see if they can activate the Citadel relay. ME3 could be about reversing the signal to go to darkspace. Of course it would activate the relay causing the reapers to wake up. What if in the process of reversing the signal, it's adjusted enough that it won't wake up the reapers? Because of some techno blah.blah, they were able to do that. Once in darkspace, they see x number of reapers in sleep mode. Shepard finds the central hub, downloads whatever information he/she can. While that is happening, all squadmates will be carrying rucksacks filled with explosives to be planted throughout the facility and then detonated as they leave. To make things interesting, Harbinger wakes up as the explosions are happening and follows the SR2 back into the Milky Way leading to a final boss fight. I would add that while the signal is being reversed, Shepard hunts for Sovereign. Once found, the reaper is no match for the SR2 and a few other ships. Because of the damage it suffered from the battle in ME1, it is destroyed fairly quickly.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 11, 2020 17:34:26 GMT
Heck, the barriers didn’t just go down. It got knocked out like a Pokemon once Superhopper Saren got taken out. I like how Harbinger was totally immune to this every time you took out a flaming Collector. It could be that Sov put too much of itself into the Superhopper, that caused a massive backlash into its systems when the Superhopper was destroyed. As for Harbinger, it's likely that it doesn't fully put itself into the Collectors when it possesses them, meaning that it doesn't suffer from the backlash that Sov suffered from. But that's just a guess. It’s this sort of fast and lose handling of how the reapers and their thralls operate that makes it hard to take seriously. Like, the Collectors are presumably capable of operating independently, but every so often, Harbinger gives one Beserker Powers so it can take the reigns and talk shit on the battlefield. It’s just one of those things where enemy types totally incongruent to the basic shooter format are given weird petty powers so we can kind of sorta shoot at them by proxy. I’ve given up trying to give them the benefit of any sort of internal logic. It’s also why I always laugh whenever there’s talk of what a show or movie would be like. The reapers would probably not even exist because they’re too stupid for that format.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 11, 2020 17:44:50 GMT
It could be that Sov put too much of itself into the Superhopper, that caused a massive backlash into its systems when the Superhopper was destroyed. As for Harbinger, it's likely that it doesn't fully put itself into the Collectors when it possesses them, meaning that it doesn't suffer from the backlash that Sov suffered from. But that's just a guess. It’s this sort of fast and lose handling of how the reapers and their thralls operate that makes it hard to take seriously. Like, the Collectors are presumably capable of operating independently, but every so often, Harbinger gives one Beserker Powers so it can take the reigns and talk shit on the battlefield. It’s just one of those things where enemy types totally incongruent to the basic shooter format are given weird petty powers so we can kind of sorta shoot at them by proxy. I’ve given up trying to give them the benefit of any sort of internal logic. It’s also why I always laugh whenever there’s talk of what a show or movie would be like. The reapers would probably not even exist because they’re too stupid for that format. I'm in the same boat. Nothing about the Reapers can't be taken seriously, hell even doing crossover stories with them in it gives me a headache.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Oct 11, 2020 20:03:46 GMT
It’s this sort of fast and lose handling of how the reapers and their thralls operate that makes it hard to take seriously. Like, the Collectors are presumably capable of operating independently, but every so often, Harbinger gives one Beserker Powers so it can take the reigns and talk shit on the battlefield. It’s just one of those things where enemy types totally incongruent to the basic shooter format are given weird petty powers so we can kind of sorta shoot at them by proxy. I’ve given up trying to give them the benefit of any sort of internal logic. It’s also why I always laugh whenever there’s talk of what a show or movie would be like. The reapers would probably not even exist because they’re too stupid for that format. I'm in the same boat. Nothing about the Reapers can't be taken seriously, hell even doing crossover stories with them in it gives me a headache. This is what happens when you don't plan out your story ahead of time. ME1 laid a decent enough groundwork to build from and flesh out. Then ME2 onwards they just threw it away and never bothered to really think about it.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 11, 2020 20:09:43 GMT
I'm in the same boat. Nothing about the Reapers can't be taken seriously, hell even doing crossover stories with them in it gives me a headache. This is what happens when you don't plan out your story ahead of time. ME1 laid a decent enough groundwork to build from and flesh out. Then ME2 onwards they just threw it away and never bothered to really think about it. All because Hudson wanted to follow the Rule of Kool. 😒
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kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 11, 2020 23:08:33 GMT
I don’t mind the games being subject to the Rule of Cool philosophy of making things happen, within reason. All that janky reaper plot nonsense and all the shaky fantasy science that plays loose with its own rules can work so long as the writers do well to keep the plots more concise and satisfying. Dumb as the existence of the Collectors is, their presentation, as well as the actual Save The Colonies and Save Our Crew story in ME2 at least work on a fundamental level well enough that it tricks people into believing that the game is near perfection. It’s that sort of simplicity that ME3 was missing. The moment they tried to create this “thought-provoking” conclusion, all the dumb stuff that led up to it only got dumber.
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2754
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Nov 27, 2024 10:56:35 GMT
6,018
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,312
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 11, 2020 23:20:25 GMT
I don’t mind the games being subject to the Rule of Cool philosophy of making things happen, within reason. All that janky reaper plot nonsense and all the shaky fantasy science that plays loose with its own rules can work so long as the writers do well to keep the plots more concise and satisfying. Dumb as the existence of the Collectors is, their presentation, as well as the actual Save The Colonies and Save Our Crew story in ME2 at least work on a fundamental level well enough that it tricks people into believing that the game is near perfection. It’s that sort of simplicity that ME3 was missing. The moment they tried to create this “thought-provoking” conclusion, all the dumb stuff that led up to it only got dumber. The problem is that the MET leans on it too much. Then the story arc starts to fall apart because it needs the Rule of Cool to progress it. And the end result? You get Starkid and it's multi coloured flavours of Derp.
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Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 11, 2020 23:48:38 GMT
I don’t mind the games being subject to the Rule of Cool philosophy of making things happen, within reason. All that janky reaper plot nonsense and all the shaky fantasy science that plays loose with its own rules can work so long as the writers do well to keep the plots more concise and satisfying. Dumb as the existence of the Collectors is, their presentation, as well as the actual Save The Colonies and Save Our Crew story in ME2 at least work on a fundamental level well enough that it tricks people into believing that the game is near perfection. It’s that sort of simplicity that ME3 was missing. The moment they tried to create this “thought-provoking” conclusion, all the dumb stuff that led up to it only got dumber. The problem is that the MET leans on it too much. Then the story arc starts to fall apart because it needs the Rule of Cool to progress it. And the end result? You get Starkid and it's multi coloured flavours of Derp. That’s sort of what I’m getting at when I say within reason. Like, all of Mass Effect is essentially dictated by rule-of-cool, with element zero, a physically impossible magic mineral that provides the foundation upon which all of the technology and “magic” is based. It was that balance between narrative consistency and gratification of watching it work that made it function well enough. The reason Mass Effect 3 went off the rails was because consistency took a hike, and probably murdered gratification on its way out. What held ME2’s use of it remotely together was that it still had some basic, understandable plot devices that held their believability, like the reaper IFF. How they could tell this weird little microchip was the thing they needed was anyone’s guess, but there’s enough plausible explanations that the nitty gritty isn’t a real concern.
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2754
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Nov 27, 2024 10:56:35 GMT
6,018
Son of Dorn
Fortifying everything.
6,312
Jan 11, 2017 14:17:27 GMT
January 2017
doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 12, 2020 0:09:43 GMT
The problem is that the MET leans on it too much. Then the story arc starts to fall apart because it needs the Rule of Cool to progress it. And the end result? You get Starkid and it's multi coloured flavours of Derp. That’s sort of what I’m getting at when I say within reason. Like, all of Mass Effect is essentially dictated by rule-of-cool, with element zero, a physically impossible magic mineral that provides the foundation upon which all of the technology and “magic” is based. It was that balance between narrative consistency and gratification of watching it work that made it function well enough. The reason Mass Effect 3 went off the rails was because consistency took a hike, and probably murdered gratification on its way out. What held ME2’s use of it remotely together was that it still had some basic, understandable plot devices that held their believability, like the reaper IFF. How they could tell this weird little microchip was the thing they needed was anyone’s guess, but there’s enough plausible explanations that the nitty gritty isn’t a real concern. Personally, that's way I think that the MET needs a rewrite, to fix these problems it has. But, that'll never happen. So, we're stuck with Starkid and it's multi coloured flavours of Derp.
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Nov 27, 2024 10:23:04 GMT
3,170
therevanchist25
1,826
Mar 15, 2017 23:07:06 GMT
March 2017
therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Oct 12, 2020 0:46:20 GMT
The problem is that the MET leans on it too much. Then the story arc starts to fall apart because it needs the Rule of Cool to progress it. And the end result? You get Starkid and it's multi coloured flavours of Derp. That’s sort of what I’m getting at when I say within reason. Like, all of Mass Effect is essentially dictated by rule-of-cool, with element zero, a physically impossible magic mineral that provides the foundation upon which all of the technology and “magic” is based. It was that balance between narrative consistency and gratification of watching it work that made it function well enough. The reason Mass Effect 3 went off the rails was because consistency took a hike, and probably murdered gratification on its way out. What held ME2’s use of it remotely together was that it still had some basic, understandable plot devices that held their believability, like the reaper IFF. How they could tell this weird little microchip was the thing they needed was anyone’s guess, but there’s enough plausible explanations that the nitty gritty isn’t a real concern. Ah but see, it worked for so long partly because Bioware created such a Heavy Science frame work in ME1. Eezo aside, ME1 is very Hard Science all things considered. Remember, they use to have videos of actual astrophysicists talking about ME tech and how most of it was very plausible, or already in the works. Like MrBtongue long ago in his famous video once said "you can bend the rules of your setting, you just can't bend it too far or too often." Eezo was the compromise. It was unwise to bend it much farther than that. If you do, you must justify why this time is an exception, like how TNG would Techno-Babble their way around explaining why this problem exists. However when done correctly they didn't also use Techno Babble for the solution as well.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,887 Likes: 3,546
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9886
0
3,546
ahglock
2,887
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Oct 12, 2020 3:31:09 GMT
That’s sort of what I’m getting at when I say within reason. Like, all of Mass Effect is essentially dictated by rule-of-cool, with element zero, a physically impossible magic mineral that provides the foundation upon which all of the technology and “magic” is based. It was that balance between narrative consistency and gratification of watching it work that made it function well enough. The reason Mass Effect 3 went off the rails was because consistency took a hike, and probably murdered gratification on its way out. What held ME2’s use of it remotely together was that it still had some basic, understandable plot devices that held their believability, like the reaper IFF. How they could tell this weird little microchip was the thing they needed was anyone’s guess, but there’s enough plausible explanations that the nitty gritty isn’t a real concern. Ah but see, it worked for so long partly because Bioware created such a Heavy Science frame work in ME1. Eezo aside, ME1 is very Hard Science all things considered. Remember, they use to have videos of actual astrophysicists talking about ME tech and how most of it was very plausible, or already in the works. Like MrBtongue long ago in his famous video once said "you can bend the rules of your setting, you just can't bend it too far or too often." Eezo was the compromise. It was unwise to bend it much farther than that. If you do, you must justify why this time is an exception, like how TNG would Techno-Babble their way around explaining why this problem exists. However when done correctly they didn't also use Techno Babble for the solution as well. Not going to watch the video as its too long. That being said I pretty much agree with you comments. Biotics isn't exactly hard, but it was controlled by a cybernetic power source so its not the softest of sci-fi for space magic. But yeah eezo is their contrivance for how they break FTL, all sci-fi no matter even super hard if it has FTL has a gimmick for it and uses current science hypothesis to explain it. Reducing mass here, vs folding space there, or wormholes in that one. What actually makes mass effect work well is with this find of eezo they then had it effect technology in a wide range of ways instead of just space flight. That's solid world building even with the joke commercials in ME2.
It's still not HARD sci-fi, but it wasn't space opera either in ME1.
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NUM13ER
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 257 Likes: 578
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3543
0
Sept 17, 2024 16:44:47 GMT
578
NUM13ER
257
Feb 13, 2017 12:15:10 GMT
February 2017
num13er
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by NUM13ER on Oct 12, 2020 14:06:37 GMT
The only thing that would make me jump back in to the Mass Effect trilogy is basically a remake to the standard of the Resident Evil 2 remake. If it's a remaster in the sense of better graphics and little else changed, I'm not really interested. And I know that's very unlikely.
- Improve the combat overall and bring ME1 combat up to par with it's sequels. - Enhanced facial animations for dialogue scenes. - Add in additional dialogue cutscenes for the DLC characters and supporting NPC's where they cut corners (especially in ME3). - More player customisation and armour customisation. More companion customisation too. - No boring mining. - Vast improvements to the finale of ME3. From the dull final level to the awful Starchild. Extended Cut was better but this is a chance to go further.
I don't think any of this is going to happen in a basic remaster or probably ever. Not unless EA wants to just remake each game individually.
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Glorious Star Lord
822
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16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 12, 2020 18:37:57 GMT
- Add in additional dialogue cutscenes for the DLC characters and supporting NPC's where they cut corners (especially in ME3). I’m kind of surprised that ME3 is the one called out on this one, since I found that NPC’s probably had the most to say in that game’s expansions than in the other 2 games, that is to say, they didn’t say anything at all. Heck, I’d rather that investment go toward having my companions comment during Bring Down the Sky, and have the third companion actually say something in Lair of the Shadow Broker, particularly Garrus if you take him with you.
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Nov 27, 2024 11:56:39 GMT
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themikefest
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August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
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Post by themikefest on Oct 12, 2020 19:18:23 GMT
- Add in additional dialogue cutscenes for the DLC characters and supporting NPC's where they cut corners (especially in ME3). I’m kind of surprised that ME3 is the one called out on this one, since I found that NPC’s probably had the most to say in that game’s expansions than in the other 2 games, that is to say, they didn’t say anything at all. Heck, I’d rather that investment go toward having my companions comment during Bring Down the Sky, and have the third companion actually say something in Lair of the Shadow Broker, particularly Garrus if you take him with you. Instead of the 2nd squadmate making a comment, I would give Shepard the opportunity to ask t'soni why she failed to make any attempt to inform anyone Shepard's body in the hands of Cerberus and why she has Shepard's armor on display like it's some kind of prize/trophy? I would also add a couple other questions as well.
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Glorious Star Lord
822
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16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 12, 2020 20:38:09 GMT
I’m kind of surprised that ME3 is the one called out on this one, since I found that NPC’s probably had the most to say in that game’s expansions than in the other 2 games, that is to say, they didn’t say anything at all. Heck, I’d rather that investment go toward having my companions comment during Bring Down the Sky, and have the third companion actually say something in Lair of the Shadow Broker, particularly Garrus if you take him with you. Instead of the 2nd squadmate making a comment, I would give Shepard the opportunity to ask t'soni why she failed to make any attempt to inform anyone Shepard's body in the hands of Cerberus and why she has Shepard's armor on display like it's some kind of prize/trophy? I would also add a couple other questions as well. Nah, my idea is better. Companions shouldn’t be mute in DLC’s. Thankfully, BioWare corrected that issue since then.
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