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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 20, 2021 0:23:01 GMT
And what kind of character "makes sense" to be gay?
Gating will ultimately only serve straight people, particularly bigoted straight people who just don't want to share content with LGBT people. Gays will not get an equal amount of content, they never have, and they definitely won't get the bulk of it.
The notion that a more sexually fluid/open character is somehow less deep or less well-realized/written than a character with strict limitations is homophobic. The notion that a character can only have a particular sexuality if it "makes sense for their background" is homophobic. You're basically saying that pansexuality and sexual fluidity are less valid than other identities, and that only certain types of people can be queer.
And besides being homophobic, it is also complete and utter bugfucking nonsense. You DO NOT ACTUALLY KNOW the sexualities of any of the world's most well-known and well-regarded characters. You're just making assumptions. There's nothing stopping Elizabeth Bennet, Frodo, or even famous womanizers like Captain Kirk or James Bond from being attracted to people of the same sex. Their sexualities are not explicitly detailed, ever. And you don't expect them to be, because you assume based on what you see that they are 100% straight.
Only queer/fluid characters are *ever* expected to explain their sexualities (just like queer people in real life are expected to justify their existence), but you are not entitled to even know a character's sexuality, let alone expect an explanation for it, and you certainly aren't owed romanceable characters who are only in your group, and fit your ridiculous definition of "well-written".
When you meet pan/fluid people in real life, do you say "well that's pretty shallow and unrealisitic"? Only if you're a bigoted asshole.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 20, 2021 0:41:51 GMT
What kind of character "makes sense" to be gay? The analyst
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 20, 2021 1:15:02 GMT
"I'm so desperate to recover the lost history of my people that I have resorted to dangerous and ethically dubious means to restore one of our ancient artifacts and as a result they have shunned me. I believe so strongly in this goal that I continue to work despite being exiled from the community and culture this work was intended to benefit."
"YEAH SORRY BUT YOU LIKE COCK *AND* PUSSY SO I JUST CAN'T GET INTO IT. DOESN'T FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE YOUR OWN WANTS AND MOTIVATIONS."
"But I just explai-"
"COCK OR PUSSY. PICK ONE."
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 20, 2021 1:26:51 GMT
And what kind of character "makes sense" to be gay? Gating will ultimately only serve straight people, particularly bigoted straight people who just don't want to share content with LGBT people. Gays will not get an equal amount of content, they never have, and they definitely won't get the bulk of it. The notion that a more sexually fluid/open character is somehow less deep or less well-realized/written than a character with strict limitations is homophobic. The notion that a character can only have a particular sexuality if it "makes sense for their background" is homophobic. You're basically saying that pansexuality and sexual fluidity are less valid than other identities, and that only certain types of people can be queer. And besides being homophobic, it is also complete and utter bugfucking nonsense. You DO NOT ACTUALLY KNOW the sexualities of any of the world's most well-known and well-regarded characters. You're just making assumptions. There's nothing stopping Elizabeth Bennet, Frodo, or even famous womanizers like Captain Kirk or James Bond from being attracted to people of the same sex. Their sexualities are not explicitly detailed, ever. And you don't expect them to be, because you assume based on what you see that they are 100% straight. Only queer/fluid characters are *ever* expected to explain their sexualities (just like queer people in real life are expected to justify their existence), but you are not entitled to even know a character's sexuality, let alone expect an explanation for it, and you certainly aren't owed romanceable characters who are only in your group, and fit your ridiculous definition of "well-written". When you meet pan/fluid people in real life, do you say "well that's pretty shallow and unrealisitic"? Only if you're a bigoted asshole. You wouldn't be simping this hard for this '' fluid '' nonsense if it was gay characters or characters presumed to be gay suddenly being fluid and discovering their heterosexual attraction and urges. Unless of course you are that deep into this obviously homophobic rhetoric about fluidness of sexuality that is only ever forced upon already gay people. And stop saying q*eer when you obviously mean SSA people. What is the reason to say q*eer? It's a horrible homophobic slur. None of what I even said had anything to do with how certain sexuality only fits certain characters. Why are you so unhinged?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 20, 2021 1:40:42 GMT
And what kind of character "makes sense" to be gay? Gating will ultimately only serve straight people, particularly bigoted straight people who just don't want to share content with LGBT people. Gays will not get an equal amount of content, they never have, and they definitely won't get the bulk of it. The notion that a more sexually fluid/open character is somehow less deep or less well-realized/written than a character with strict limitations is homophobic. The notion that a character can only have a particular sexuality if it "makes sense for their background" is homophobic. You're basically saying that pansexuality and sexual fluidity are less valid than other identities, and that only certain types of people can be queer. And besides being homophobic, it is also complete and utter bugfucking nonsense. You DO NOT ACTUALLY KNOW the sexualities of any of the world's most well-known and well-regarded characters. You're just making assumptions. There's nothing stopping Elizabeth Bennet, Frodo, or even famous womanizers like Captain Kirk or James Bond from being attracted to people of the same sex. Their sexualities are not explicitly detailed, ever. And you don't expect them to be, because you assume based on what you see that they are 100% straight. Only queer/fluid characters are *ever* expected to explain their sexualities (just like queer people in real life are expected to justify their existence), but you are not entitled to even know a character's sexuality, let alone expect an explanation for it, and you certainly aren't owed romanceable characters who are only in your group, and fit your ridiculous definition of "well-written". When you meet pan/fluid people in real life, do you say "well that's pretty shallow and unrealisitic"? Only if you're a bigoted asshole. You wouldn't be simping this hard for this '' fluid '' nonsense if it was gay characters or characters presumed to be gay suddenly being fluid and discovering their heterosexual attraction and urges. Unless of course you are that deep into this obviously homophobic rhetoric about fluidness of sexuality that is only ever forced upon already gay people. And stop saying q*eer when you obviously mean SSA people. What is the reason to say q*eer? It's a horrible homophobic slur. None of what I even said had anything to do with how certain sexuality only fits certain characters. Why are you so unhinged? Lol. If I'm "simping" for fluid, then are you simping for the heteros? So they'll think you're one of "the good ones", and let you have their table scraps? I was not addressing only your points, if I was speaking only to you, I would have quoted you. LGBT people have been using 'queer' as a self-descriptor and as an academic term for decades longer than you have been alive. Even if it were only a slur, as a gay man, like you, I have the right to reclaim slurs that are used against me. Block me if you don't like it, but don't blame me for your own lack of awareness about the complicated history of the term, or its extremely common current-day usage within the LGBT community. And I say 'queer' or 'fluid' because I do NOT only mean same-sex attracted people. I mean all the characters of BioWare games who are anything other than completely straight and cisgender (since there could be trans or non-binary party members in the future). When DA2 first came out, the sexuality of the characters was not disclosed, it was only with the release of DAI, when BioWare decided to gate shit again, that they decided everyone was "bisexual", but prior to that they could have been bisexual OR pansexual or any number of other possibilities. Not to mention, a character can present as supposedly "straight" and turn out to be same-sex attracted later, like Anders did. And even though Anders backstory says he was same-sex attracted all along, it is possible for real people to realize same-sex attraction late in life, and so it could happen to a character too. So I say fluid, because even if someone's identity changes, it doesn't invalidate the identity they had before. And you literally said you support gating as long as it "makes sense for the background", so which backgrounds "make sense" to be gay? What kind of background does a gay man have?
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 20, 2021 1:55:45 GMT
You wouldn't be simping this hard for this '' fluid '' nonsense if it was gay characters or characters presumed to be gay suddenly being fluid and discovering their heterosexual attraction and urges. Unless of course you are that deep into this obviously homophobic rhetoric about fluidness of sexuality that is only ever forced upon already gay people. And stop saying q*eer when you obviously mean SSA people. What is the reason to say q*eer? It's a horrible homophobic slur. None of what I even said had anything to do with how certain sexuality only fits certain characters. Why are you so unhinged? Lol. If I'm "simping" for fluid, then are you simping for the heteros? So they'll think you're one of "the good ones", and let you have their table scraps? I was not addressing only your points, if I was speaking only to you, I would have quoted you. LGBT people have been using 'queer' as a self-descriptor and as an academic term for decades longer than you have been alive. Even if it were only a slur, as a gay man, like you, I have the right to reclaim slurs that are used against me. Block me if you don't like it, but don't blame me for your own lack of awareness about the complicated history of the term, or its extremely common current-day usage within the LGBT community. And I say 'queer' or 'fluid' because I do NOT only mean same-sex attracted people. I mean all the characters of BioWare games who are anything other than completely straight and cisgender (since there could be trans party members in the future). When DA2 first came out, the sexuality of the characters was not disclosed, it was only with the release of DAI, when BioWare decided to gate shit again, that they decided everyone was "bisexual", but prior to that they could have been bisexual OR pansexual or any number of other possibilities. Not to mention, a character can present as supposedly "straight" and turn out to be same-sex attracted later, like Anders did. And even though Anders backstory says he was same-sex attracted all along, it is possible for real people to realize same-sex attraction late in life, and so it could happen to a character too. So I say fluid, because even if someone's identity changes, it doesn't invalidate the identity they had before. And you literally said you support gating as long as it "makes sense for the background", so which backgrounds "make sense" to be gay? What kind of background does a gay man have? I simp for gays and lesbians and bisexuals in same sex relationships, and no self-respecting gay or lesbian, or for that matter bisexual, calls themselves q*eer. Q*eer is historically used by gay men of New York in the early 1900s (Gay New York: gender, urban culture and the making of the gay male world, 1890-1940, page 101) but has been then reclaimed as a label for spicy straights and genderlosers after becoming an obvious slur towards homosexuals. So not the people who the word belongs to. We REALLY don't need to be reclaiming slurs because it really serves no benefit. People who are not completely straight (or gay) are bisexual. The way you are just so eager to erase the word bisexual with a slur and '' fluid '' lmao. There's no need for either word. Gay, bi, straight. So easy, so simple! All backgrounds make sense to be gay.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 20, 2021 2:04:12 GMT
I was thinking more like a devout Andrastian wouldn't really want to have cuddles with like, a Dalish who shits on Andrastian faith. Or that some characters just have racial preferences because of their background or status or just that they are/aren't attracted to some races and it's like a character trait they bring up.
Like I find it just ever-so-slightly weird that Cassandra is completely a-okay with a man of any faith and any opinion regarding her faith really as long as you jam that approval meter high enough. Obviously there'll be opposites attract kind of romances present but sometimes having certain dealbreakers certainly makes a lot of sense.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 20, 2021 2:05:51 GMT
Lol. If I'm "simping" for fluid, then are you simping for the heteros? So they'll think you're one of "the good ones", and let you have their table scraps? I was not addressing only your points, if I was speaking only to you, I would have quoted you. LGBT people have been using 'queer' as a self-descriptor and as an academic term for decades longer than you have been alive. Even if it were only a slur, as a gay man, like you, I have the right to reclaim slurs that are used against me. Block me if you don't like it, but don't blame me for your own lack of awareness about the complicated history of the term, or its extremely common current-day usage within the LGBT community. And I say 'queer' or 'fluid' because I do NOT only mean same-sex attracted people. I mean all the characters of BioWare games who are anything other than completely straight and cisgender (since there could be trans party members in the future). When DA2 first came out, the sexuality of the characters was not disclosed, it was only with the release of DAI, when BioWare decided to gate shit again, that they decided everyone was "bisexual", but prior to that they could have been bisexual OR pansexual or any number of other possibilities. Not to mention, a character can present as supposedly "straight" and turn out to be same-sex attracted later, like Anders did. And even though Anders backstory says he was same-sex attracted all along, it is possible for real people to realize same-sex attraction late in life, and so it could happen to a character too. So I say fluid, because even if someone's identity changes, it doesn't invalidate the identity they had before. And you literally said you support gating as long as it "makes sense for the background", so which backgrounds "make sense" to be gay? What kind of background does a gay man have? I simp for gays and lesbians and bisexuals in same sex relationships, and no self-respecting gay or lesbian, or for that matter bisexual, calls themselves q*eer. Q*eer is historically used by gay men of New York in the early 1900s (Gay New York: gender, urban culture and the making of the gay male world, 1890-1940, page 101) but has been then reclaimed as a label for spicy straights and genderlosers after becoming an obvious slur towards homosexuals. So not the people who the word belongs to. We REALLY don't need to be reclaiming slurs because it really serves no benefit. People who are not completely straight (or gay) are bisexual. The way you are just so eager to erase the word bisexual with a slur and '' fluid '' lmao. There's no need for either word. Gay, bi, straight. So easy, so simple! All backgrounds make sense to be gay. Many people who identify as attracted to both sexes don't use the word 'bisexual' for themselves, they say pansexual, or demisexual, or fluid, or something else, or they reject labels. It doesn't hurt bisexuals in the least to be inclusive of people who identify as something other than bisexual. People have the right to be referred to by the terms that they wish, and I speak broadly in an attempt to include them. And when I'm describing MYSELF, I'll use whatever words I like, thanks. Many people in the community use the term Queer, to the the point that Q is often included in the famous acronym, a fact you cannot POSSIBLY be unaware of. Gay people refer to themselves as "queer" every day, or even by other slurs historically used against them, and that is their right, no matter how you feel about it. What they think they gain from doing it is their own business. And I'm not going to take seriously the opinions of anyone who completely unironically uses terms like "genderlosers". If you're going to use words like that against other people, you have no leg to stand on when it comes to complaining about slurs targeting YOUR groups.
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Post by necrowaif on Jun 20, 2021 6:46:11 GMT
I thought demisexual just meant asexuals who only ever feel sexual attraction to someone they’re in love with.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 20, 2021 7:21:32 GMT
I thought demisexual just meant asexuals who only ever feel sexual attraction to someone they’re in love with. No, they aren’t asexuals but their own orientation. They and asexuals are both part of the Ace Spectrum though, along with Graysexuals.
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Post by bierkrug on Jun 20, 2021 10:44:45 GMT
Gating will ultimately only serve straight people, particularly bigoted straight people who just don't want to share content with LGBT people. Gays will not get an equal amount of content, they never have, and they definitely won't get the bulk of it. Gating can be about much more than just sexual orientation. Wouldn't make much sense if upstanding goody two shoes falls in love with someone who has no regard for the lives of others, now would it? Or if someone who wholeheartedly hates Qunari falls in love with one. Solas only wanting to be with another elf makes perfect sense. Playersexual is lazy, it's one size fits all writing thus making the characters appear shallow. Deadfire and Skyrim make that obvious. I've never seen it done well. No, they aren’t asexuals but their own orientation. They and asexuals are both part of the Ace Spectrum though, along with Graysexuals. Graysexual? The only Grays I know are those bug eyed aliens that supposedly abduct cows but I somehow think that ain't it
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 20, 2021 11:17:39 GMT
Gating will ultimately only serve straight people, particularly bigoted straight people who just don't want to share content with LGBT people. Gays will not get an equal amount of content, they never have, and they definitely won't get the bulk of it. Gating can be about much more than just sexual orientation. Wouldn't make much sense if upstanding goody two shoes falls in love with someone who has no regard for the lives of others, now would it? Or if someone who wholeheartedly hates Qunari falls in love with one. Solas only wanting to be with another elf makes perfect sense. Playersexual is lazy, it's one size fits all writing thus making the characters appear shallow. Deadfire and Skyrim make that obvious. I've never seen it done well. I agree.
What i would like more is some sort of Solas and Cullen for every sexuallity. What i hated was DA2, because it doesn't make any sense.
if you look around you you will see many people who have a preference for something and that has nothing do to with racism or sexual discrimination. I want every colour of the rainbow, but if you mix them all together in one character you get no colour at all. So please respect each other not every coment is an attack. Sometimes you just look at the same thing from a different angle. And if i talk for my self i haven't got to know every color yet. So it can happen that I say something and can't understand how someone else is taking it because I don't even know what that person has experienced.
I hope you all understand what i trying to say.
Thanks to the guard for deleting sensitive mail.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 20, 2021 11:57:12 GMT
Gating will ultimately only serve straight people, particularly bigoted straight people who just don't want to share content with LGBT people. Gays will not get an equal amount of content, they never have, and they definitely won't get the bulk of it. Gating can be about much more than just sexual orientation. Wouldn't make much sense if upstanding goody two shoes falls in love with someone who has no regard for the lives of others, now would it? Or if someone who wholeheartedly hates Qunari falls in love with one. Solas only wanting to be with another elf makes perfect sense. Playersexual is lazy, it's one size fits all writing thus making the characters appear shallow. Deadfire and Skyrim make that obvious. I've never seen it done well. Bierkrug, I've seen enough of you now to know that I'm not going to agree with literally anything you say, so you are wasting your time. I don't support romance gating, of *any* kind. I support maximising access to romances, I support people being able to play any kind character they want, without getting locked out of romances. There's plenty of other things that can be gated in the story. Romances need not be one of them. Especially because you, yourself, previously told me that romances count for such a *tiny* fraction of the overall game, and that I was too concerned with them. And now, here you are, telling me that romances being too accessible makes the characters "shallow". That, even if their arc and development and the bulk of their content has nothing whatsoever to do with their sexuality, which is the case for all of them but one, that their sexuality nevertheless has the ability to utterly shatter your fragile, delicate immersion. This "less than 10% of the game", to use your own words, suddenly now determines the quality of the entire overall product. Bierkrug, make up your fucking mind. And if all it takes to ruin a character for you is learning that their sexual tastes are wide and varied, or defy easy labelling, I submit that you wouldn't actually know good writing if you saw it.
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Jun 20, 2021 12:01:32 GMT
Is this shit thread still going on?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 20, 2021 12:20:09 GMT
No, they aren’t asexuals but their own orientation. They and asexuals are both part of the Ace Spectrum though, along with Graysexuals. Graysexual? The only Grays I know are those bug eyed aliens that supposedly abduct cows but I somehow think that ain't it It means it is in the grey area between asexual and sexual.
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Post by bierkrug on Jun 20, 2021 12:32:57 GMT
No fear about wasting my time, I have nothing better to do This "less than 10% of the game", to use your own words, suddenly now determines the quality of the entire overall product. Which was in response to you stating that all you care about in DA4 is extensive gay romances and nothing else. Which... seriously dude, go read Chuck Tingle or something, a video game isn't going to be the fullfillment of your dreams in that regard. I haven't found any hot metalheads in the game, didn't stop me from enjoying what was there. And if all it takes to ruin a character for you is learning that their sexual tastes are wide and varied, or defy easy labelling, I submit that you wouldn't actually know good writing if you saw it. Again, gating goes beyond sex. I'm all in support of playing whoever the player wants to be, but there need to be consequences. I liked the example with a devout andrastian and a dalish being at odds. Maybe it being like Baldur's Gate where companions will leave if they find your actions unbearable. Stories use tropes and judging from the chronically offended I can't blame Bioware for not going down certain roads. Like Weekes, one of the wokest woke who ever woked (judging by his Twitter), who wanted to avoid making Solas a depraved bisexual. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DepravedBisexualI don't care about wide and varied sexuality characters as long as I can avoid them. Need I remind you how many people were really put off by Bull's BDSM thing? Point still stands: playersexual is lazy writing. There isn't a single game out there that did it well. DA2 only made it passable because of the friend/rival system. It means it is in the grey area between asexual and sexual. I thought those were demisexuals. This is so confusing
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Post by Zemgus on Jun 20, 2021 12:49:59 GMT
Maybe a romance where at first the person you are interested in is not interested in you, at all. I guess that kind of romance would work best if they bring back the friendship/rivalry system from DA2 and rivalmances. Or with extra 'from enemies to lovers' angle. Sort of like the Arcann romance from SWTOR except hopefully better written.
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Post by bierkrug on Jun 20, 2021 12:54:26 GMT
Or with extra 'from enemies to lovers' angle. This I would find very interesting. As long as the characters involved connect through more than just chemistry like in bad fanfiction. Kind of like the entire hidden companion thing with Loghain, where you can pull the character to your side of the conflict. Bonus points if it's an apostate and we finally get a reverse betrayal by one for a change XD
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 20, 2021 13:21:10 GMT
... seriously dude, go read Chuck Tingle or something, a Why don't you and your entire "gays should stick to the ghettos of gaming and media where I can't see them" attitude just fuck right the hell off and never bother me again? How about that? You have absolutely no comprehension of what I want out of video games, not even the slightest idea. Straights never have to choose between adventure and excitement or romance, they always manage to cram hetero bullshit into everything, be it space opera, spy thriller, or literally anything else, so why should I have to limit myself to visual novels and trashy romance ebooks if I want to see gay people in something? Why shouldn't they be readily available in space operas and fantasy stories? As for the rest of what you said, I'm not going to waste time on addressing the same shitty, bad faith arguments I've been putting up with on here for the past 5 fucking years. Get a new one. And if you're so put off by diverse sexuality and kink, why don't you take your own advice, and go watch Care Bears or My Little Pony or some bullshit that won't offend your delicate sensibilities, and let games for adults have adult things in them.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jun 20, 2021 13:56:35 GMT
Or with extra 'from enemies to lovers' angle. This I would find very interesting. As long as the characters involved connect through more than just chemistry like in bad fanfiction. Kind of like the entire hidden companion thing with Loghain, where you can pull the character to your side of the conflict. Bonus points if it's an apostate and we finally get a reverse betrayal by one for a change XD Enemies to lovers can be pretty freaking cheesy so I dunno how I feel about that lol. But a reverse betrayal feels like a long time coming.
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Post by bierkrug on Jun 20, 2021 15:25:46 GMT
Enemies to lovers can be pretty freaking cheesy so I dunno how I feel about that lol. But a reverse betrayal feels like a long time coming. As long as it's not Kylo & Rey levels of bad And if you're so put off by diverse sexuality and kink, why don't you take your own advice, and go watch Care Bears or My Little Pony or some bullshit that won't offend your delicate sensibilities, and let games for adults have adult things in them. Make kinkshaming great again! Abolish gender! Radical feminism for everyone!
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Black Magic Ritual
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Jun 20, 2021 16:54:38 GMT
The romance I would like would be something akin to a reverse tragedy, i.e. instead of losing the companion, the companion loses the PC, be it through possession/death/turning into the bad guy etc.
The player would then play as the companion for the last act/scene of the game, and must face the character they created in the final battle.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 20, 2021 17:30:19 GMT
I, for one, would welcome DA4's squad be entirely populated by LGBTQ+ members. No cishets. You'd only need to turn Varric bi. I mean, assuming he returns, which seems quite likely. But Varric always seemed very ... tolerant, to say the least. So it wouldn't even be much of a stretch. It's not like he said "I'm flat out 100% straight and I would never be caught dead with another man". It would be no less unusual than Bobbie and Tim Drake coming out.
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fairdragon
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 20, 2021 19:47:43 GMT
Can anyone give me an exemple for a well-written gay. I don't really understand why you all so agressive.
I look for the best romance and create a character for that. In DAI Cullen and Dorian in DAO Alistair.
I think 6 romances 2/2/2 are good. Or 9 3/3/3 for the picky one.
I only want interessting characters with a good Story and Sorry DA2 doesn't have that for me.
I looking for romances with a strong guy someone the other character can lean on, with a believable story. Skorpion king, Legolas and Lieutenant Commander Dawin Samuthyakorn (the crown princess) Or a sweet, petite but strong woman straight. Sorry woman woman isn't mine. Eowyn(as mentiont before), Princess Alice Madeleine Thereza Phillipe (the crown princess) and Jodha (jodha akbar movie)
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 20, 2021 20:02:44 GMT
Maybe a romance where at first the person you are interested in is not interested in you, at all. I guess that kind of romance would work best if they bring back the friendship/rivalry system from DA2 and rivalmances. Or with extra 'from enemies to lovers' angle. Sort of like the Arcann romance from SWTOR except hopefully better written. I don't like the system but hate/love stories are the best.
'from enemies to lovers' isn't quit what i would see, better working for the enemie. I would like to turn around a Solas spy, but only successful with enough love points. I would make two Systems one for Emotion and the other for relationship. Because i can love someone without really being able to live with that person.
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