TheAntiSocialFatMan
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: TheGrandHunter
Posts: 81 Likes: 62
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spiritwarden
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Post by TheAntiSocialFatMan on Aug 27, 2020 4:05:29 GMT
TL;DR - Adepts in ME3 suck, convince me otherwise I really love Biotics and I love playing as Biotic capable classes, the issue I have is that the Adept feels like one of the most heavily nerfed classes in the trilogy to the point where it almost feels like Bioware hated the class. In ME1 they were pretty OP, especially once they got Bastion. Use Singularity to CC an entire room. Warp to weaken a strong enemy and Bastion Stasis to freeze a Krogan or a Thresher Maw. In ME2 I find them...okay I guess? Their powers have become a little boring, they feel like the class that actually lost the most. With Barrier and Stasis having been removed to become Bonus Powers. The ability to make Biotic Explosions by yourself is cool, although Singularity doesn't feel good anymore. The radius is tiny even with the Wide Evolution and it can't hold many enemies (and Singularity will hold onto dead Husks allowing still living ones to walk through it). Then there is the fact every power but Warp is a gravity manipulator but Bioware added a protection system which stops mostly biotics from working (which just gets worse on Hardcore/Insanity). Despite all this, I don't see the Adept as being particularly bad in ME2, just not as good as it once was. But then there is ME3...oh boy. So Singularity once again received a radius nerf (someone correct me if I'm wrong on my maths here) which now means Singularity even with every Radius buff including Expanding - only makes the max radius 2.8m and even then only for the last 5 seconds. Enemies can now dodge projectile powers and oh yay, every power the Adept has is a projectile, which can also be blocked by Banshees and Phantoms. Every Biotic class by default can now create Biotic Explosions so the gimmick of the Adept from ME2 is gone. They're joint for the lowest weapon weight capacity The 'Biotic Master' was given Grenades as a power.......
AoE Powers can only affect a set amount of enemies, which I believe is only 3 at a time.
Compare this to the Vanguard: Easy access to a full shield regen, Nova has one of the largest radius of any power and can be spec'd to even do more damage to Shields. Vanguard get 2 unique melee attacks for some odd reason. Nova and Charge can't be blocked or dodged by enemies. To me it seems that 1) Vanguard is just more consistent and better overall than an Adept and 2) Adept Shepard is just lame and there's probably a good reason why the Multiplayer Adepts used less and less Gravity based powers as time went on. Reave, Stasis, Lash, Smash, Annihilation Field, whatever the Collector's powers are called etc. Frankly in ME3 I'd pick a Sentinel over an Adept for Biotic but I'm petty and don't like that Sentinels don't use Biotics in cutscenes like the Adept/Vanguard does in the Citadel DLC. So really this is all leading up to the subjects question, can anyone actually sell me on the Adept being good? |
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Aug 27, 2020 7:22:42 GMT
Only way to win is not to play 2 or 3.
Adept is the best as you dont need to move so much, as the movement in this game is agonizing in every way. Warp should still work as armor debuffing element? The powers seem to be most fun in 1 and Andromeda, they went after the cover camping crowd in 2 and 3 and nerfed movement too.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 27, 2020 7:46:49 GMT
Double Exploder with shockwave and singluarity.
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Aug 29, 2020 2:23:56 GMT
But then there is ME3...oh boy. So Singularity once again received a radius nerf (someone correct me if I'm wrong on my maths here) which now means Singularity even with every Radius buff including Expanding - only makes the max radius 2.8m and even then only for the last 5 seconds. I do not think your math is wrong, but I do not think the game is accurately portraying the radius increase. I recorded some expanding singularity and tried to crudely measure the radius increase based on the visuals. I think the actual expanded radius is 2-3 times larger than the starting radius, at least based on the visuals. |
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Aug 29, 2020 2:40:46 GMT
TL;DR - Adepts in ME3 suck, convince me otherwise No classes suck in ME3. They are all stupidly good. I do think the Adept is overshadowed by the Sentinel though. Adept does have the quickest primer and detonator for health-only enemies with Pull and Throw. (Or Singularity and Throw if you prefer). However, considering that you can have Liara (Singularity) and Javik (Pull) for about 85 - 90% of the game, Adept becomes a Throw-bot for most of the game. Sentinel also has Throw. Adept has Warp+Throw for armor, which Sentinel also has. Sentinel has a shield-stripping power (Overload) for the occasional shielded enemy, plus a damage protection power (Tech Armor) to reduce damage taken; Adept needs to spend a bonus power to get anti-shield (Energy Drain) or damage protection (Fortification/Barrier/Defense Matrix). Sentinel needs to invest in a bonus power for a quick health-only biotic primer (Lash) that the Adept gets naturally (Pull, Singularity), but as I wrote earlier, you can run with Liara and Javik for most of the game which removes the need for it.
I would not compare Adept with Vanguard in ME3 considering they play totally different. Adept and Sentinel are a much closer comparison. You can play Vanguard a bit like and Adept if you focus on Pull and Shockwave, and ignore Charge and Nova. Most players do not do that though.
As for Mass Effect 2, I will defend the Adept and the biotic changes, even (especially?) on higher difficulties. All classes have to deal with the new protection system; each class just deals with it differently. I will not get into it here. It is getting late and I am tired and I am not sure I am ready to get into the particular discussion anyway. Just find the classes you do enjoy playing and play them. Experiment and have fun. Not everyone likes the same things, and you may get enjoyment out of different classes in different games. For example, I thought the Engineer was terrible in ME1, my favorite in ME2, and middling in ME3. |
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Aug 30, 2020 4:53:31 GMT
They definitely got worse in ME3 for me. The main reason is their class power lost its stagger. Me2 if you threw singularity at a shielded enemy it staggered them, sure outside a glitch you wouldn't warpsplode them but it could lock down a stairwell or narrow passage for a few seconds. A few seconds with your SMG(shotgun post collector) would wreck all but the toughest shields. ME3 their class power the one damn reason to play adept over a different biotic class, is one of the worst powers in the game. Lift is better, lift grenades are better, a ham sandwich is better. Now in MP singularity could cause a warp explosion even if you had shields still. If that had made its way into SP, they'd be pretty boss. Personally I'd prefer no biotic explosion until shields are down and just the stagger,but it being a waste of space was stupid. It moved slower than lift, it had a slower recharge than lift, and once shields were down its kind of irrelevant which one.
For me ME2 biotics were peak. Yeah I had to use my guns, or teammates but it was just cooler. Having both singularity and lift mattered, i'd throw singularity and stagger people with shields, have a team mate strip the shields of another group while i gunned down the shields on singularity group then threw a pull at the group my teammate stole the shields from. Guns, throw and warp explosions to finish groups off. ME3, cooldowns were so short and singularity sucked so bad all you needed was pull and throw or warp. ME2 just had more dynamic gameplay as opposed to just power spam.
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TheAntiSocialFatMan
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: TheGrandHunter
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TheAntiSocialFatMan on Aug 31, 2020 1:24:49 GMT
They definitely got worse in ME3 for me. The main reason is their class power lost its stagger. Me2 if you threw singularity at a shielded enemy it staggered them, sure outside a glitch you wouldn't warpsplode them but it could lock down a stairwell or narrow passage for a few seconds. A few seconds with your SMG(shotgun post collector) would wreck all but the toughest shields. ME3 their class power the one damn reason to play adept over a different biotic class, is one of the worst powers in the game. Lift is better, lift grenades are better, a ham sandwich is better. Now in MP singularity could cause a warp explosion even if you had shields still. If that had made its way into SP, they'd be pretty boss. Personally I'd prefer no biotic explosion until shields are down and just the stagger,but it being a waste of space was stupid. It moved slower than lift, it had a slower recharge than lift, and once shields were down its kind of irrelevant which one. For me ME2 biotics were peak. Yeah I had to use my guns, or teammates but it was just cooler. Having both singularity and lift mattered, i'd throw singularity and stagger people with shields, have a team mate strip the shields of another group while i gunned down the shields on singularity group then threw a pull at the group my teammate stole the shields from. Guns, throw and warp explosions to finish groups off. ME3, cooldowns were so short and singularity sucked so bad all you needed was pull and throw or warp. ME2 just had more dynamic gameplay as opposed to just power spam. Yeah I think you nailed it, the lack of stagger on Singularity really kills the ability and since the class power is supposed to be the main draw to play as that class. And if it's not worth using the ability, you're probably better off playing something else. I guess I'll stick to Vanguard because Shep-Guard uses Biotics in the Citadel Cutscenes unlike the Sentinel class (Yes I'm that petty xD)
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Aug 31, 2020 3:22:59 GMT
To me that's not petty. There are very few places in the game where a class ability is focused. I can only think of 2 actually the citadel, and I think exclusively for engineers in the omega DLC. With remaster talks going around, just changing a few scenes per game to take into account your class would make it worth the $60 for me, the rest would just be gravy. Not that I expect them to do that.
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nannerb
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by nannerb on Aug 31, 2020 22:28:54 GMT
In ME2 I find them...okay I guess? Their powers have become a little boring Adept was actually my favorite class in ME2 (tied with Vanguard). They were the perfect meat popsicle finisher via warp explosions or launching enemies off map with pull+throw. As for ME3, I do agree with you that the Adept lost much of its magic, though the best part of ME3 is that you can really have a lot of fun with different builds and/or personal challenges. For example, you can try an Adept build without putting any points into Throw (closer to ME2 Adept, using warp as a detonator) or perhaps a close range Adept that focuses on Shockwave using shotguns. As a pure class, I agree that Adept isn't as exciting as the other classes, but because of the malleability of ME3, you can really play with where you put points and your playstyle. |
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Post by capn233 on Sept 1, 2020 0:58:02 GMT
1) Vanguard is just more consistent and better overall than an Adept This is true in ME1 as well. The overarching idea for the combat in ME3 was simplification and increased pace. Hence the changes to movement, the fact that even on insanity you fought loads of unprotected enemies, and cross class combos were made to make composition less important (although not as dumbed down as they would be in MEA). The problem is that really the Adept class is supposed to be a controller. But if the typical combat encounter is only a small handful of weak enemies, then crowd control powers are devalued. The combo expansion for ME3 was presumably to encourage teamwork in MP, and as control wasn't useful the powers were shifted to damage. I would prefer that singularity stuck protected or elite units a little more readily in SP, sort of like Heavy Singularity could be used for in ME2. But I think that this still would not matter much unless encounters were retooled with more dangerous and durable enemies in heavier numbers.
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ahglock
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Sept 1, 2020 1:56:12 GMT
As an aside to this the vanguard was peak vanguard in ME2 as well. The charge/nova chain was too good in ME3. it was just kind of boring for me on insanity because, outside banshees charge, nova, shotgun rules all. The lack of Nova and lack of insanely low recharge speeds in ME2 made it a more interesting game play dynamic. Still was one of the easier classes to play IMO.
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Post by n7double07 on Jan 4, 2023 3:42:28 GMT
There are good arguments that the Adept is the most poorly designed class in ME3.
The real reason why Adept is the worst class in the ME3 meta is redundancy: It has a bunch of powers that lift + there are limited scenarios where these powers are particularly useful compared to Pull. I think that Shockwave and Singularity should've been removed and replaced with something else. Ideally, Throw wouldn't have been a detonator, either.
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