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Post by therevanchist25 on Oct 30, 2024 21:43:03 GMT
I have been a big Bioware fan since KOTOR. The Mass Effect Trilogy is literally my favourite game series of all time. I also love Baldurs Gate 2, Dragon Age Origins and KOTOR. DA2 and Inquisition still had lots of good writing too despite some flaws. Andromeda was the first game where I thought the writing was very immature and weak, like made to appeal to the tumblr crowd. Just awful but since it wasn't made by the main team I thought it was a one time thing. But holy shit this has to be the worst written Bioware game by far if the whole game has such cringe dialogue (and according to skillup it has). The worst offender is easily Tash, I watched some of the 26 minutes video and it was atrocious. So heavy handed and preachy. I can't believe this is the same writer who delivered on arcs like Rannoch and Trespasser and characters like Mordin and Solas. The "romantic" scene with Harding is not better,fanfiction writers could do better. The tone is so immature, just like in Andromeda. Getting rid of any player agency is horrible too, you can only be a cliche good guy kissing everyone's ass. How is this an RPG, there is no roleplaying. Honestly I may be overdramatic but I am just shocked and have been following this forum for some time and had to register to say this. I thought people who whined about the old Bioware being dead back when ME3 or DA2 came out were being silly but I think Bioware is really dead now. For me at least. Maybe the younger generation prefers this I would be one of those people. The sad reality is, people like me could see the writing on the wall with ME3. It was so horribly written, and their response so arrogant and vain that this ultimate conclusion was inevitable.
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Post by Reznore on Oct 30, 2024 21:47:01 GMT
he said he thought the Harding romance scene he showed was cringe. I couldn't disagree with him more, I found it was very cute and heartwarming. It got a bit embarrassing with Rook crawling on the floor and trying to grab at Harding but 60-70% of the scene I thought was very nicely done. And even the crawling on the floor I could probably excuse a bit because Rook was basically high as a kite. I know I've been overly giggly and not thinking exactly straight when I had a bit too many puffs of grass. Agreed. Sure it's goofy, but what the hell Harding is a cute romantic dwarf who's always been quite sweet. Works for her. Made me want to romance her actually.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Oct 30, 2024 21:52:12 GMT
From the handful of Non-Binary people I spoke with at work about it, they say it's because "tomboy" and "feminine man" are problematic according to them. It's apparently part of the outdated language that "needs to go away", according to them. This makes me very, very angry. Why?! Because if people don't conform to gender stereotypes they're somehow not those gender anymore? What sense does that make?! it does not. the entire worldview of those people is a pyramid of unending hypocrisies and contradictions. But since we aren't allowed to talk about that, anywhere, it's best to let it go before we lose the 1 thread free from toxic positivity.
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andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 433 Likes: 885
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Post by andorvex on Oct 30, 2024 21:52:14 GMT
he said he thought the Harding romance scene he showed was cringe. I couldn't disagree with him more, I found it was very cute and heartwarming. It got a bit embarrassing with Rook crawling on the floor and trying to grab at Harding but 60-70% of the scene I thought was very nicely done. And even the crawling on the floor I could probably excuse a bit because Rook was basically high as a kite. I know I've been overly giggly and not thinking exactly straight when I had a bit too many puffs of grass. Agreed. Sure it's goofy, but what the hell Harding is a cute romantic dwarf who's always been quite sweet. Works for her. Made me want to romance her actually.
Hmm... I didn't think it was good, but it wasn't completely awful. The big question is how much better than this the game gets and what percentage of the writing is like this what percentage is better and what is worse.
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Post by spacev3gan on Oct 30, 2024 21:56:47 GMT
The death of the much cherished Bioware of old isn't happening right now. It happened 5 and a half years ago already, during Anthem's release. That is the when the Bioware magic completely failed, the studio downsized significantly and key people such as Mike Laidlaw, Casey Hudson and others left for good. There is a reason why Bioware has been on hiatus for so long.
Dragon Age Veilguard is somewhat of a posthumous release, in my view - mixed in with some new attempt of newer people to resurrect the spirit of bygone times.
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Post by Reznore on Oct 30, 2024 21:58:35 GMT
Agreed. Sure it's goofy, but what the hell Harding is a cute romantic dwarf who's always been quite sweet. Works for her. Made me want to romance her actually.
Hmm... I didn't think it was good, but it wasn't completely awful. The big question is how much better than this the game gets and what percentage of the writing is like this what percentage is better and what is worse. It seems there's quite a bit of drivel. For a romance scene it's ok. But the Lighthouse is a bit of a sitcom. Doing mundane stuff talking about mundane stuff... Your expert companion acting like teenagers.
I've read the personal companion quest are better and emotional but yeah the big family angle is well Dragon Age meet Saint Row reboot.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Oct 30, 2024 22:01:13 GMT
Here is another unpopular opinion: If you need to tell players to leave the Hinterlands you've already failed to design the first "level" properly. Why would a player advance to the next (and surely more challenging) level if they can't clear the first one properly? I don't think that's unpopular? Hinterlands is commonly clowned on. Maybe I don't understand something lol
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andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 433 Likes: 885
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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Post by andorvex on Oct 30, 2024 22:01:19 GMT
Hmm... I didn't think it was good, but it wasn't completely awful. The big question is how much better than this the game gets and what percentage of the writing is like this what percentage is better and what is worse. It seems there's quite a bit of drivel. For a romance scene it's ok. But the Lighthouse is a bit of a sitcom. Doing mundane stuff talking about mundane stuff... Your expert companion acting like teenagers.
I've read the personal companion quest are better and emotional but yeah the big family angle is well Dragon Age meet Saint Row reboot. While I honestly don't really like this vibe I can't deny I think it was part of how Inquisition companions were as well so I can't really fault The Veilguard for that
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Post by therevanchist25 on Oct 30, 2024 22:04:31 GMT
Hmm, I think the point about retconning the Qun to make a point was misguided, even if I didn't find Krem as a character really preachy at all. No offence, but it seems like pure speculation and I'm not really convinced. It might be true but there could be many other explanations... I was hoping for something a bit more concrete. Blaming it all on Walters is just the same speculation. I don't need you to be convinced - it's just my opinion. Did people really put ALL the blame on Walters? My memory goes back a long way, what I remember is "Macs a great character writer, terrible plot writer and a bad director"
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Post by wright1978 on Oct 30, 2024 22:10:56 GMT
And there is also nuance that you can have. I watched that MattyPlays review and there were a number of things I found myself agreeing with him on (regarding roleplay mostly but I'll add my own point on autodialogue) but a number of things I didn't agree with him on, based on what he showed. For example, he said he thought the Harding romance scene he showed was cringe. I couldn't disagree with him more, I found it was very cute and heartwarming. It got a bit embarrassing with Rook crawling on the floor and trying to grab at Harding but 60-70% of the scene I thought was very nicely done. And even the crawling on the floor I could probably excuse a bit because Rook was basically high as a kite. I know I've been overly giggly and not thinking exactly straight when I had a bit too many puffs of grass. I thought harding was Very cring/saccarine but people who love Harding would find it delightful. So if that’s one romance and neve is sexual like issues in da2 so there’s options that would be fine. If they are all flowers and hearts then no.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by akots on Oct 30, 2024 22:11:44 GMT
I read this as an implied correct reaction since this game is teaching people how to behave. You can call this conspiracy territory if you will. That's fair, I guess. But stuff like that really gives me the creeps. I remember there was a game about that, hmm, give me a sec. I think, the correct term is Indoctrination maybe? Yes, indeed it is Indoctrination. Wait, what, the Reapers are coming? The Reapers are coming!
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andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by andorvex on Oct 30, 2024 22:13:57 GMT
I think it was a mistake for Matty to put a romance scene as an example for bad dialogue, because romances were always something that there are many factors which determined whether you liked the romance or not, most of the extremely subjective.
A more natural scene would have served better as an example
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Post by witchcocktor on Oct 30, 2024 22:14:01 GMT
Hmm... I didn't think it was good, but it wasn't completely awful. The big question is how much better than this the game gets and what percentage of the writing is like this what percentage is better and what is worse. It seems there's quite a bit of drivel. For a romance scene it's ok. But the Lighthouse is a bit of a sitcom. Doing mundane stuff talking about mundane stuff... Your expert companion acting like teenagers.
I've read the personal companion quest are better and emotional but yeah the big family angle is well Dragon Age meet Saint Row reboot. I feel so vindicated right now. When the devs started talking about your companions being a '' found family '' I immediately could smell what was coming, that is, some corny ass '' wholesome '' teen literature nonsense. According to the leaks and spoilers, seems like I was right on the money. And people were mostly positive and excited for this after Inquisition's '' coworkers and colleagues '' approach with companions. But I always preferred that approach.
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by andorvex on Oct 30, 2024 22:16:17 GMT
I read this as an implied correct reaction since this game is teaching people how to behave. You can call this conspiracy territory if you will. That's fair, I guess. But stuff like that really gives me the creeps. I remember there was a game about that, hmm, give me a sec. I think, the correct term is Indoctrination maybe? Yes, indeed it is Indoctrination. Wait, what, the Reapers are coming? The Reapers are coming! This is exactly what I was referring to a page ago when I talked about bringing down old games in an unfair matter to make the Veilguard look good.
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Post by The Pluto Lounge on Oct 30, 2024 22:21:11 GMT
Damn, what happened in the Review's thread? Shit is a bit crazy over there.
(Sorry for off-topic, but this thread is the most chill)
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 30, 2024 22:21:49 GMT
I love found family stuff, dammit! I hope DAV doesn't put me off it for the rest of my life. It's kinda bizarre how this game sounds so right up my alley on paper but the execution is just so bad.
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andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by andorvex on Oct 30, 2024 22:22:58 GMT
Damn, what happened in the Review's thread? Shit is a bit crazy over there. (Sorry for off-topic, but this thread is the most chill) The discussion there is pretty cool actually they are very respectful as far as I've seen it's just very hard to follow because they are writing scrolls and some of them have the same user avatar
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Post by witchcocktor on Oct 30, 2024 22:25:31 GMT
I'm taking a shot at the Taash and Isabela situation as well, why not! The scene is not made because it's important or funny. It's made to preach about the severity of misgendering someone, and what the appropriate level of being apologetic is and how seriously you should as a person take such grave misconduct, in Thedas AND in the real world. It's kind of a power fantasy in a way.
Then there's also the argument that Isabela wouldn't respond this way because of misgendering someone. Oh yes, I will shank and steal, but MISGENDERING? I will do push ups for you as punishment for my horrid deeds! Like is that really Isabela we have gotten to know and love..? Which then further adds to the power fantasy, that even morally dubious people would never want to hurt their non-binary pals' feelings!
It just takes you out of the supposedly immersive roleplaying experience when stuff like this is made SO BLATANT.
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wright1978
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,774 Likes: 2,789
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Post by wright1978 on Oct 30, 2024 22:26:01 GMT
I love found family stuff, dammit! I hope DAV doesn't put me off it for the rest of my life. It's kinda bizarre how this game sounds so right up my alley on paper but the execution is just so bad. I definitely love da2 in that regard but a) you could definitely choose who you had that closeness with the game was set over a longer period of time which makes it more natural.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Oct 30, 2024 22:27:24 GMT
And there is also nuance that you can have. I watched that MattyPlays review and there were a number of things I found myself agreeing with him on (regarding roleplay mostly but I'll add my own point on autodialogue) but a number of things I didn't agree with him on, based on what he showed. For example, he said he thought the Harding romance scene he showed was cringe. I couldn't disagree with him more, I found it was very cute and heartwarming. It got a bit embarrassing with Rook crawling on the floor and trying to grab at Harding but 60-70% of the scene I thought was very nicely done. And even the crawling on the floor I could probably excuse a bit because Rook was basically high as a kite. I know I've been overly giggly and not thinking exactly straight when I had a bit too many puffs of grass. I thought harding was Very cring/saccarine but people who love Harding would find it delightful. So if that’s one romance and neve is sexual like issues in da2 so there’s options that would be fine. If they are all flowers and hearts then no. Sure but there's no way for you to know and come to a reasonable conclusion one way or the other. Matty said the romance writing is cringe and then showed only one romance scene. Why not show other scenes from Harding's romance? Why not show a scene from another character? It comes off as an incomplete or leading argument and, if he were writing an academic paper, his instructor would tell him to rewrite and put more thought into it.
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N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 433 Likes: 885
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by andorvex on Oct 30, 2024 22:28:23 GMT
I love found family stuff, dammit! I hope DAV doesn't put me off it for the rest of my life. It's kinda bizarre how this game sounds so right up my alley on paper but the execution is just so bad. I definitely love da2 in that regard but a) you could definitely choose who you had that closeness with the game was set over a longer period of time which makes it more natural. Hey I'm making two DA2 comments in a few seconds what a win. Anyway I think calling the the DA2 cast a found family is very interesting, because many members of this family completely despise each other. And even the Morrigan Alistair talks feel like friendly banter compared to some of the Fenris Merrill or Avaline Issoble talks
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 30, 2024 22:29:08 GMT
I'm taking a shot at the Taash and Isabela situation as well, why not! The scene is not made because it's important or funny. It's made to preach about the severity of misgendering someone, and what the appropriate level of being apologetic is and how seriously you should as a person take such grave misconduct, in Thedas AND in the real world. It's kind of a power fantasy in a way.
Then there's also the argument that Isabela wouldn't respond this way of misgendering someone. Oh yes, I will shank and steal, but MISGENDERING? I will do push ups for you as punishment for my horrid deeds! Like is that really Isabela we have gotten to know and love..? Which then further adds to the power fantasy, that even morally dubious people would never want to hurt their non-binary pals' feelings!
It just takes you out of the supposedly immersive roleplaying experience when stuff like this is made SO BLATANT. Spot on, couldn't have said it better!
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fenalaslavellan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by fenalaslavellan on Oct 30, 2024 22:34:08 GMT
I'm taking a shot at the Taash and Isabela situation as well, why not! The scene is not made because it's important or funny. It's made to preach about the severity of misgendering someone, and what the appropriate level of being apologetic is and how seriously you should as a person take such grave misconduct, in Thedas AND in the real world. It's kind of a power fantasy in a way.
Then there's also the argument that Isabela wouldn't respond this way of misgendering someone. Oh yes, I will shank and steal, but MISGENDERING? I will do push ups for you as punishment for my horrid deeds! Like is that really Isabela we have gotten to know and love..? Which then further adds to the power fantasy, that even morally dubious people would never want to hurt their non-binary pals' feelings!
It just takes you out of the supposedly immersive roleplaying experience when stuff like this is made SO BLATANT. Exactly! Immersion! I was (trying to) talk about this on reddit and was downvoted to oblivion because people seem offended that I wanted a Qunari word for non-binary people. Don't get me wrong, this would not solve the problem here, but it would still make it less blatant that Taash is a self-insert of Weekes.
The lack of worldstate has already blown away any chance of feeling immersed in this game. We also have Paul Rudd's Ant-Man as a protagonist no matter what, and adding all this to the pile it makes it so that this is basically a glorified preachy dating sim, trying really hard to pass as a Dragon Age game and failing horribly despite waving Varric and Morrigan in our faces.
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Post by The Pluto Lounge on Oct 30, 2024 22:35:08 GMT
Damn, what happened in the Review's thread? Shit is a bit crazy over there. (Sorry for off-topic, but this thread is the most chill) The discussion there is pretty cool actually they are very respectful as far as I've seen it's just very hard to follow because they are writing scrolls and some of them have the same user avatar Ah, ok, I've caught up now.
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Post by The Pluto Lounge on Oct 30, 2024 22:36:22 GMT
I definitely love da2 in that regard but a) you could definitely choose who you had that closeness with the game was set over a longer period of time which makes it more natural. Hey I'm making two DA2 comments in a few seconds what a win. Anyway I think calling the the DA2 cast a found family is very interesting, because many members of this family completely despise each other. And even the Morrigan Alistair talks feel like friendly banter compared to some of the Fenris Merrill or Avaline Issoble talks Ha, I take it you don't have siblings?
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