Dragon Age The Veilguard Criticism Thread (formerly Skepticism Thread) [Spoilers]

Which is why I almost didn't pick the faction. I saw the faction armors on Reddit before. But alas, it was the only faction I liked for my Rook's face and personality. I like the Rivain origin, I like the idea of treasure hunters but, yeah, they look soooo awful. Isabela doesn't even wear unique armor, I think.

I used to do that for almost every DA game. To rush in threads and talk about it when starting a new playthrough. But what's the point. I'm only in ACT 1 and I haven't recruited Emmerich and Taash, so take it as it is.

But for the veilguard, what can I say honestly, this game is so black and white, there are heroes and there are bad guys. That's it. Rook is a good protagonist, don't have much issue with him if it not about having harsh choices, but everything is made convenient for him, so that he can easily have allies, because with such evil enemy, there is no other choices. Everything is given to him, he has all the advices he can have from everyone very easily. I'm also wondering why Varric is not dead, quite an insult to see him so much sidelined like that. But then maybe it will be better in act 2 and 3. None of the npcs in this world has any real substance so far, beyond the companions and Solas. Even Morrigan is unbelievably quiet, just a few sentences after she appears and that's it, nothing to learn from her, about her life, who she is, what she knows, where she comes from, why is she so personally involved, nothing new. She is just there, to give some important infos about the matter without a proper introduction. The way it was done and portrayed was quite superficial. Rook doesn't even know her and yet when she appears, he just looks at her with a blank stare.

The story so far is very predictable and cliche. No politics, no interesting nuanced conflicts anywhere, everything is static, and the game focus only on these ancient eleven gods

The venatori ? Worst enemy ever, they keep being everywhere, keep popping in every plot and they keep being evil for the sake of it. How is it possible that they are so many ? They have a bigger army than the Inquisition at this point. I don't see any realistic purpose or appealing ideal that could explain how so many recruits could fall for this purely evil faction, despite being defeated in inquisition. Why were they made important to the lore as much as the darkspawn? What makes the Venatori so appealing even after they were hit in the south ? I mean for real ? Where come from the idea that Tevinter is such in a bad state, that they need to reach this level of madness in their decisions ? Is it the corruption everywhere in Tevinter their issue ? I very doubt they are so pure with this idea given how corrupt they are themself. Having demons falling everywhere with Corypheus wasn't enough for them to be doubtful ? I don't know it seems so childish. They always have been uninteresting anyway, even in Inquisition. Just Calpernia saved the day. Just compare the templar / mage story in DAII with only one year of developpments, it was way more powerful and smart.

The Antaam ? They seem to be just beasts. It's okay to have some enemies like that, but again, what do you want me to talk about, compared to DAII with the Arishock that was very much nuanced and philosophical. Again with a convient childish plot. But I won't say more because it would go into spoilery territory.

What can I say about the characters, I don't learn anything so far, except I like flowers, cooking, coffee, cheese; I just notice them being so nice to each other, in a way that doesn't sound realistic. They are all so nice, there is zero variety, I feel like we are in a utopic dream, it's not real. The garden, cooking, soap opera. We are totally disconnected from the real where things happen. Is it really dragon age or Fantasia ? Or the legend of Zelda ?Having a few companions very nice is okay, but everyone ? Even the assassin ? It can become insufferable honestly, because we know it's bullshit. We know it's not real. In real life, you don't have such thing. Even nice people can be very petty or ruthless depending on the topics and their point of view. The father of one ex girlfriend, I literally saw someone wishing a genocide on a whole people just because of terrorism, and yet he was as nice as someone can be. Where are the flaws ?

It's probably the power of love and friendship so much praised by John Elper, being able to overcome anything, yadda yadda, like a good dysney movie, an anime for children. But this is just a dream, the power of love and friendship doesn't have this power. We can see right now even in our world mostly at peace that it is not the case. Ukraine is no evil country,  Russia is no Israel and Palestine are no evil. But their fight is ruhtless, terrible. Their point of view is just so radically different, that there is hatred, blood, death and it has terrible consequences. And people all over the world, even recently for dozen of years kept talking about that, because it's complex. There are no easy ways to get out of this shit.

So what I am supposed to talk about with a fantasy world that has become so static and bland ? The quality writing with the crows in act 1, is terrible by the way, so far the worst part for me. I'll wait for spoilers, but there are so many things wrong.

You walk around in Treviso, you literally cannot talk to anyone, expect those with one lines that tell you that it " smells fishs here ", or " today I ate a dish and vomited in the canal. "The best interactions I had so far in Treviso beyond Teia and Vigo, it's with cats. What do you want us to think of that ? Is this supposed to make me feel immersed into this world, to make me care about the lore ?

It's great to have a big city, but if I can't talk to npcs with real personal stories, side quests, inside of it, that make me breath the city like in DAII or DAO, what is the point ? No complex stories, nuanced backgrounds, interesting things learned so far. I just follow a good movie that doesn't need thinking. So I don't think, I don't need to. And if I don't need to think, I don't need to debate with people, I don't need to go over story spoilery threads and ask question, I don't need to care about the lore. Let alone I need sometime to put my brain on a table to be able to enjoy some part of the Veilguard story. Sometimes, it is difficult to not raise your eyebrows.

By the way I wish people in the North would exist like in Ferelden and Kirkwall, outside of factions as well. At the beginning of the game, Tevinter was attacked by demons. So I come back at one point. They couldn't adress what is going on in Tevinter, after this attack ? The outcome ? No politics at all ? What do think the authorities of Tevinter about the attack, what do they do ? I'm only in act 1 but man, that was weird coming back to that city and this point barely adressed.

As for Lucanis, I am a bit disappointed. Zevran is honestly a thousand time better than him, he doesn't bring anything on the table except cooking and coffee, trying to be the nicest guy with Neve and Bellara and Harding while he barely knows them. I'm waiting for more interesting discussions.

I wonder if he would even kill a fly if he had a contract on it, because suspiciously he is only a mage killer, but not killing just any mage, bad ones obviously, convenient once again. Zevran in Dragon age origins as an assassin  in spite of being a pretty boy, you could only take him seriously, he didn't joke. A real crow. 

I've said on the Lucanis thread that he seems such a gentleman to me. It's really weird because not only did I know Zevran but have had confrontations with Crows in DAO, DAA and DA2. Plus I read WoT2 biography on Zevran. I keep saying how they took the Thedas Mafia and neutered them. These assassins are meant to be the organisation that inspires such fear that no one in their right minds, apart from the Qun, would dare invade Antiva. I reckon I could take out the DAV lot with just a pack of Mabari.

I loved Zevran whether as a friend or lover because he seemed real. He was unapologetic about being an assassin but you could genuinely gain his loyalty. However, if you didn't then he would turn on you and you would have to kill him. Whilst it is not my canon run, I do rather like my Cousland Warden who romanced him. Actually he slept with everyone he could in the game (of the major characters). Morrigan was miffed with him when he wouldn't do the dark ritual (Loghain begged him not to make him do it and offered to die if necessary - he did) but somehow Leliana was chilled about him sleeping with her and then opting for Zevran (my guy had so much charisma). Then after forming an alliance with Anora and getting her to agree to marry him, Zevran offered to stand aside in case his presence caused a scandal (joked about it). My guy said not a bit of it. So, then Zevran said that if ever he grew tired of Anora, he could always solve the problem! Now that was classic Dragon Age! I honestly think Lucanis would be a bit shocked at that tale.

Jesus, what on earth is that?

Did they really thought "non sexualized female armor = male armor"? Because that's a brain dead way of thinking.

Curiously, as posted on this thread, there are rather sexualized male outfits.

Is it true that if you romance Taash, you can't opt out from relationship after she comes out as non-binary? E.g. the romance lock happens before the reveal and you can only say ok?

I remember having a conversation with Zevran in which the Warden can flat out admit he/she enjoys killing, and Zevran's response is the kind that would make HK-47 reply with the prequelmeme "you're strong and wise and I'm very proud of you". Why did they have to whitewash DA?!? Did anyone asked for that?

Nah, technically it happens after romance lock. It's still done icky, cause first you say you are interested in her, then she says she is NB and you can only reply "ok, sure"

I had to watch a bit of the romance on youtube though and, wow. Diabolical. A moment of silence for all of us who got excited as first concept of qunari woman was released and everyone went crazy.
Notice how it's often woman character who is picked as a token for something. Less backlash this way, I guess.
I'm still salty. Why was taash written so fucking bad. 

I totally agree. The whole game is like a Disney movie - just black and white and no nuances. Suddenly the fact, that Tevinter is the country of slavery and blood magic is reduced to 'Venatori evil, rest good'. Gone are the days, where we had moral discussions with Dorian about the subjects.
As you said: The Qunari are now mindless idiots and the Crows are suddenly heroes. That is just wrong.

I had an unsubstantiated theory that everything that survived the previous cycle of development is much better and closer to classic Dragon Age. Harding seems like a good evidence for it, as she is the only companion that seems to be planned from the start, so probably she is closest to the original design they planned for Dreadwolf

We should do a side quest breakdown when we're both done and compare notes. Some side quests are meh and some really hit me even though it was nearly all codex

I never read codex for several reasons. And I don't think it ever prevented me from enjoying DA games before. Codex should be extra tidbits that can have some nice rewards for those who choose to engage with them. If you have to read codex to get the main deal of a quest, it's a badly designed quest. And I made this argument in the context of other games before. I don't remember which one specifically, but yeah I'm a firm believer of this.