Dragon Age The Veilguard Criticism Thread (formerly Skepticism Thread) [Spoilers]

Yes, absolutely.

Now I admit that I do have big issues with the modern gender theory infecting one of my favorite games, and Weekes and Busche pretty blatantly pushing their ideology in the setting at the cost of sexual diversity and how gendered the world of Thedas has been which made it interesting and relatable. But that's only one drop in the ocean (and that drop is a pretty personal gripe overall that is more reflective of my own personal sociopolitical views), and is merely one symptom of a greater disease festering at the core of the game design and writing philosophy of Veilguard. 

I started the game having huge issues with all '' pan '' companions and the gender selection being as ridiculous as it is, but I finished it with so many other bigger grievances that mattered so much more.

Somebody once said you can say anything - it's the way you say it that matters. The negative reception has more to do with how things were presented, at this particular juncture in time, when that particular topic has become a trigger for a vast majority of gamers, rather than the topic itself - case in point : BG3. Add to this all the other problems contained within many have mentioned - and this is where we are.

I myself would have continued to play, despite that topic, were it not for the combat system. I just couldn't handle the controller thing - kept forgetting to dodge or roll or whatever, or call the wheel thing or use the pseudo companions. So I just uninstalled it.

Baldur's Gate 3 did it best and did it well. The same people were pushing their anti-woke agendas and were drowned out by the millions of people enjoying the game. And you all know why. Because Baldur's Gate 3 treated the player as an adult and remembered to write characters and not tick boxes. It didn't talk down, proselytize, or assassinate established characters to push an agenda. It's a shame because BioWare previously understood this. You only need look to Dorian to see evidence of that.

The problem with 'woke' is that people use it flippantly and don't really specify or agree to its true definition. Dustborn is woke. Baldur's Gate 3 has progressive elements, but those alone do not make it 'woke'. Woke as a means of character expression is when the writing is solely concerned with pronouns, sexuality, patriarchy, etc. Meaning that the character could not exist without these aspects. As someone astutely pointed out much earlier in this thread, Dorian doesn't need to be gay for his story to work. Wokeness exists at the expense of the character, story, and universe. It doesn't service it.

If Veilguard had been written competently by people who cared about Dragon Age first and foremost, the same people would have screeched about the same things but it would have fallen upon deaf ears. The fact that the game is written poorly combined with its preachiness paints a huge target on its back.

My personal issue regarding all bi/pan companions will always be that it removes gay and lesbian characters from the roster, and it takes an exceptionally good and passionate writer to include them in the world outside of the romance mechanic. While you can always go to twitter and claim '' oh, this character is gay lesbian trans bi whatever '' it is much harder to those things naturally come up in discussion without it being so offputtingly blatant and transparent in a game that's not about sexual diversity, and is a medieval-inspired fantasy world to begin with. The Dragon Age universe has established that different sexualities exist, and that different parts of Thedas have different views on the subject. But just like many other things in the lore, that as well has been forgotten in favor of a more simple, and easily-presented world in terms of romance and sex where '' everyone fucks everything how nice. ''

And honestly, with how little roleplaying there is, with how little opposition the companions offer, with how little you have to examine your relationship to them, I do think that adding more gating to the romances would've probably been a positive rather than a negative. Though that comes with the assumption that the romances themselves would be a bit better and that the gender selection would remain at a safe, simple and biologically proven male/female. So I do understand why they went with the all bi/pan route once more.

You're also right about Taash, if they had to give her this journey of navigating gender roles inside the Qun, people would've caught on and understood this is representitive of gender in the modern world, regardless of whether I personally would enjoy it or not. At least it would somewhat follow the rules of the world that has been written and presented for us in the past three games, instead of just ripping young adult novel themes from the real modern world, causing such an aggravating and terrible tonal whiplash. Navigating qunari's cultural views on gender would've at least been SOMETHING. 

That is all of Bioware's game world exploration in a nut shell. I may even say Veilguard is their best attempt at creating a truly believable world so far.

Surprised more people haven't caught onto this or think it significant enough to mention. I know this has happened in other cases, but it's the first time I've seen something like this play out before our eyes. Baldur's Gate is more than 4 years old if you count early access and it has shit all over the AAA EA backed game that came out two weeks ago from a once legendary developer.  The same developer who brought gamers the ip in the first place. Jesus. What an indictment. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they shy away from mentioning Veilguard ever again. Maybe they'll poke their heads out to announce when it hits a million, but I think it likely that we'll have to take them at their words. All hands on deck for Mass Effect. 

Though at this point, even with the director and writer showing promise, I'm still terrified at the aspect of it. 

BG3 did well with finding a balance between the different audiences they wanted to appeal to, the setting and world building, and how those things would affect gameplay. I hand it to them for being able to do what they did and leave completely unscathed, with tons of money in their pockets to invest into their next big hit.

But for me, it's not the end and be-all for RPGs and how to implement some '' woke '' things like diversity. I still think DA:I is the closest to perfect to my standards and personal taste, which is why Veilguard going backwards sucks. Despite that, I'd say BG3 is a good standard for most RPGs, but absolutely not all rpgs.

My fears exactly.

Biower has never been about accountability for missteps.  Instead, they doubledown.

If "all hands on deck for ME" means significant input from the DATV leadership, me fears for ME.

I hate to say this, but those incels that view lgbt people as the Antichrist are sadly the vast majority of people, even today, as the current political climate has unfortunately proved. I see it every day.

I did love Shadowheart's.