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Post by Ieldra on Nov 13, 2024 20:25:28 GMT
Your choices matter quite a lot, they can literally destroy a country. I do agree, that the tadpole should have more conseuqences, but other than that: you can literally destroy lifes with your choices or save them. One well meant comment in act 1 can kill people in act 2 for example.
DAVG has two major paths regarding which city you save. The entire storyline for both cities plays out differently then. How is that different from destroy vs raid grove? That's what you refer to right? We don't actually see a country being destroyed. Unless you mean ending? Then why does something we don't actually see any more important than how you handle Solas at the end? They're variations lol The problem with this choice was I could find no reason to choose one city over the other. I ended up prioritizing the city that housed my faction, but most Rooks aren't Shadow Dragons or Crows, and I would've prefered some reason that made a difference in how we approach the main problem at least for a while, like, say, BG3 did.
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Post by fylimar on Nov 13, 2024 20:26:32 GMT
Your choices matter quite a lot, they can literally destroy a country. I do agree, that the tadpole should have more conseuqences, but other than that: you can literally destroy lifes with your choices or save them. One well meant comment in act 1 can kill people in act 2 for example.
DAVG has two major paths regarding which city you save. The entire storyline for both cities plays out differently then. How is that different from destroy vs raid grove? That's what you refer to right? We don't actually see a country being destroyed. Unless you mean ending? Then why does something we don't actually see any more important than how you handle Solas at the end? They're variations lol And in act 3 you can get people killed for not making certain activities and making wrong choices. The game is admittedly pretty heavy handed in telling you what a mission needs but it's also fairly obvious that you don't send Lucanis to work on magical wards lol That is really not, what I refer to. That is a big decision, I was talking about a line, you can say to a character to be helpful, that gets people killed in act 2 and the character himself in act 3.
You can ruin peoples lifes by simply doing nothing. A npc, you didn't help in act 1 prevents you from having a good outcome in one big quest in act 3, getting a lot of people killed
And I'm sorry, but DAV has one ending with different flavors and a sob ending for Solavellans. It leads to one thing, the only chnages are, who will survive and who won't. BG3: you can save the world, destroy the world, conquer the world, help a devil, destroy a devil, help a goddess or not...
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 20:27:32 GMT
I don't think Astarion's approval tags are well thought out. That's what I'm saying here. Clearly, bringing him to a goody two shoes quest would make him mad. He just disapproves of any remotely "good-aligned" option even when the alternative makes our lives harder (which he presumably hates). Approval with him is tied to just picking evil options OR indulging the vampirism. It's not nuanced at all, unlike all the other companions.
It took til Act 2 for Astarion to become more reasonable in the approval department, and by the end I thought his character arc was pretty great. It did not land at all at first though and it marred the entire relationship. Never needed him to love me, but I don't have to curate my DAVG missions to make companions like or dislike me. It's about clearly defined choices, not arbitrary approval bumps.
Regarding Minthara, that's just bias in favor of BG3 then. DAVG does not break when you make a RP choice expecting you to take another. That's limiting. I cannot recruit Minthara at all for a purely gameplay related reason. That's not good game design. It's kinda interesting how fixated you are on things I think are esoteric and completely disregard others I consider crucial. Which I assume it's why out opinions differ so much. As for Astarion - ok you dislike evil characters. It doesn't make him a badly written character. You don't even talk story, only mechanics. As for minthara, I said I agree with you. I complained about it like a week after the early access was released, because Minthara is not the only one with the potential to break the narrative. And yet, the important thing to understand here is that it's not a bug, it's part of the game. Larian cares more about providing cool choices than to make the story fully cohesive. The Veilguard is much more cohesive, but it's also boring lack any interesting character or nuance. So still worse in my book, even though like I said, I can't think of any Bioware game before 2015 which is worse than BG3 K I'll concede that we have different priorities and expectations.
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emissaryoflies
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by emissaryoflies on Nov 13, 2024 20:29:51 GMT
Veilguard isn't even the best Dragon Age game. At best, it's tied for the worst in its series. It's so bad that it might kill the ip. And that's being very generous. Meanwhile, Baldur's Gate 3 is so great, that it's now considered the golden standard in which to judge modern rpgs as a whole. It isn't perfect. Correct. Is it the best thing out in terms of roleplaying on a AAA level? By a country fucking mile.
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andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by andorvex on Nov 13, 2024 20:30:57 GMT
DAVG has two major paths regarding which city you save. The entire storyline for both cities plays out differently then. How is that different from destroy vs raid grove? That's what you refer to right? We don't actually see a country being destroyed. Unless you mean ending? Then why does something we don't actually see any more important than how you handle Solas at the end? They're variations lol The problem with this choice was I could find no reason to choose one city over the other. I ended up prioritizing the city that housed my faction, but most Rooks aren't Shadow Dragons or Crows, and I would've prefered some reason that made a difference in how we approach the main problem at least for a while, like, say, BG3 did.
Literally everything about that quest was horrible. And as for consequences, it was mostly cosmetic consequences imo. |
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 13, 2024 20:35:43 GMT
And I'm sorry, but DAV has one ending with different flavors and a sob ending for Solavellans. It leads to one thing, the only chnages are, who will survive and who won't.
In this case I actually do not mind that. The story was always about preventing Solas from tearing down the Veil. Sure, it would've been cool in some way had we had the option of helping him instead, but it would've not felt natural given how DAI-Trespasser ended.
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"A person of any mental quality has ideas of his own. This is common sense." Franz Liszt
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Post by Onecrazymonkey1 on Nov 13, 2024 20:35:57 GMT
Halsin is probably the only character that I hated more than Gale, blatant fan service. What?? Halsin is such a sweet guy! Fan service how? Because of the bear sex? I really liked his personality, just wish his voice actor didn't sound so forced and unnatural. And that he had more content. I didn't find him physically appealing at all so he was low on my romance list but in real life he'd be the one with the most attractive personality to me. Tree hugger nature lover, yes! Fan service because he wasn't a companion in early access, however because fans were attracted to him they added him in late which gave him some very bare bones content (less than Karlach). When that's the case I would rather a character be scrapped all together. There was also the problem that he never really took no for an answer in my play-through when it came to the romance department. For example, I told him to "have fun at the party" and he suddenly thought we were in a romance and kept telling me he thought I felt the same a couple of times, even after I said no and was in other romances. Then in conversations he would ask to join in threesomes with the companions I was romancing, probably a bug but it left a very skeevy impression in my mind. The bear sex is not for me but I don't care that it's in there if people want to go that route.
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 13, 2024 20:40:39 GMT
There was also the problem that he never really took no for an answer in my play-through when it came to the romance department. For example, I told him to have fun at the party and he suddenly he thought we were in a romance and he kept telling me throughout the game that he thought I felt the same a couple of times, even after I said no and was in other romances. Then in conversations he would ask to join in threesomes with the companions I was romancing, probably a bug but it left a very skeevy impression in my mind. That sounds a lot like the thing that happened with Gale in my game. I thought it was Galw specific but apparently not. He kept talking about a relationship we weren't in, never kissed him and still could get the big sex scene with him. It was really jarring and didn't help me like a character I already found annoying. Agreed on not introducing a character last minute if there's not enough time/budget left to flesh them out. |
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Post by The Pluto Lounge on Nov 13, 2024 20:40:58 GMT
From a story stand point, I didn't enjoy BG3 much. I don't like the bomb in the head thing in RPG's. Just like Cyberpunk, its at odds with the nature of an RPG. Act 1 felt like a carrot on the stick. Go here for a cure, nope. Go here for a cure, nope. However, the side stories that branches out is incredible. Like I did a prank for the Tiefling kids, then the druids decide to murder all the Tieflings. That left me in complete shock.
The little details are so impactful, too. When I walked into that Githyanki inner chamber, then one of the guards walks and closes the door behind me. That wow'd me and created a feeling of tension. I felt nervous in the following conversation as I was thinking one wrong answer could end the run.
The world feels so alive with how characters you interact with travel on their own. When you run in to them again, it felt natural as it builds on your previous interaction.
So although I don't like the overall narrative so far... the level of immersion and feeling like my choices matter, going all the way back to character creation, makes up for it.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 20:41:09 GMT
I will just never understand the appeal of using tadpoles. It's so disgusting. Like it's a visceral reaction. I still haven't done a tadpole run and I've played BG3 three times.
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Biotic Commando
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Biotic Commando on Nov 13, 2024 20:41:20 GMT
Larian listened too much to fans. Halsin turned into hollow fan service. Shadowheart was better in early access...she needed less frustrating ways for her to open up but she's far too friendly in the release version. All companions even the evil ones can be turned into teddy bears who see the light.(minus Minthara) Not a fan of that either. Poor Wyll, Myzora steals the show. The added epilogue was ubber fan service and bored me to tears. But at the end of the day there's such a breadth of good interesting content in BG3..it's understood a big RPGs going to have flaws. Plots that don't quite land, characters that aren't that interesting etc.. But choices do matter you can end up ruining the world. Or saving it. Also I liked the dream lover they had in the early access version much better than the Guardian that replaced it. What a twist. You have a tadpole in your head and it appears as a seductive dream lover and rewards you with wet dreams if you give in to it. That would've been a compelling reason to play someone going down the tadpole route. I wonder why they changed that.
Yet another thing that would make heads explode at present-day Bioware I'm sure.
I haven't seen that. Did that seductive dream lover look like a desire demon from DAO/DA2? If so, I would def have preferred that to stay that way. |
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 20:42:12 GMT
Also I liked the dream lover they had in the early access version much better than the Guardian that replaced it. What a twist. You have a tadpole in your head and it appears as a seductive dream lover and rewards you with wet dreams if you give in to it. That would've been a compelling reason to play someone going down the tadpole route. I wonder why they changed that.
Yet another thing that would make heads explode at present-day Bioware I'm sure.
I haven't seen that. Did that seductive dream lover look like a desire demon from DAO/DA2? If so, I would def have preferred that to stay that way. Nah your dream guardian would just appear in your dreams and tempt you. IIRC it was almost sexual.
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andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 433 Likes: 880
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by andorvex on Nov 13, 2024 20:42:30 GMT
There is a datamining video from Early access time showing that OG Halsin was much much more interesting and had direct connections to both Kathric and Isobel.
They changed it because of rabbid horny fans mostly, I guarantee it
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 13, 2024 20:46:30 GMT
Also I liked the dream lover they had in the early access version much better than the Guardian that replaced it. What a twist. You have a tadpole in your head and it appears as a seductive dream lover and rewards you with wet dreams if you give in to it. That would've been a compelling reason to play someone going down the tadpole route. I wonder why they changed that.
Yet another thing that would make heads explode at present-day Bioware I'm sure.
I haven't seen that. Did that seductive dream lover look like a desire demon from DAO/DA2? If so, I would def have preferred that to stay that way. No. You were asked at character creation about your ideal lover, who you could make as a second character, and who would then appear in your dreams as the tadpole's incarnation. It was a nicely evil twist I must say. I've never seen anything like it in an RPG. I was really disappointed when I found out they changed it.
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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kappaneko
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Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 13, 2024 20:46:50 GMT
I will just never understand the appeal of using tadpoles. It's so disgusting. Like it's a visceral reaction. I still haven't done a tadpole run and I've played BG3 three times. Not even on your durge run?? I loved how they changed your appearance dramatically eventually. I gleefully forced everyone to take them so they'd all look like creatures from a horror movie. I have a screenshot from the SH romance and it's straight up horror movie stuff the way her ruined face looms behind my durge, lol. SH looked positively revolting. Best roleplaying experience ever to me, haha. |
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 20:47:15 GMT
I will just never understand the appeal of using tadpoles. It's so disgusting. Like it's a visceral reaction. I still haven't done a tadpole run and I've played BG3 three times. Not even on your durge run?? I loved how they changed your appearance dramatically eventually. I gleefully forced everyone to take them so they'd all look like creatures from a horror movie. I have a screenshot from the SH romance and it's straight up horror movie stuff the way her ruined face looms behind my durge, lol. SH looked positively revolting. Best roleplaying experience ever to me, haha. No I'm apparently too weak lmao
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andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 433 Likes: 880
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by andorvex on Nov 13, 2024 20:48:24 GMT
Playing Human Noble origin now. Having fun just talking to NPCs in Ostagar. I actually found some I never talked to before. They are all cool
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 20:48:59 GMT
There is a datamining video from Early access time showing that OG Halsin was much much more interesting and had direct connections to both Kathric and Isobel. They changed it because of rabbid horny fans mostly, I guarantee it I figured as much from the game's context. The game gave the impression that Halsin was the one who killed Isobel, when you consider the spear reward and Halsin's obsession.
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Post by witchcocktor on Nov 13, 2024 20:49:17 GMT
I didn't really like any of the BG3 characters. But that has a lot to do with the game really not taking itself seriously enough for me, so I had real issues connecting with anything (especially emotionally) outside of the gameplay and roleplaying elements. Interesting. The conclusion to Astarion's good path arc was so well acted I teared up. It was so good. I got super emotional, same with SH. Took me a long time to start liking any of them though apart from Karlach. And when you play evil you look at Astarion , SH and Laezel and think: you're all as monstrous as me, lol. What is wrong with you all?! (It was GREAT!) I understand the not being serious part. It's what actually helped me enjoy playing an unhinged Bhaal psychopath. It was so over the top I had a blast with being comically evil. BG3 is a lot more serious than DOS2 though. That game was super tongue in cheek. At the end of cat 1 (?) when leaving the island my ex boyfriend and I had killed I think everyone because every scene ended with the realization "shit, you're all evil, need to kill you", lol. I think there are some good moments of character writing that are emotional, but that itself doesn't make me emotional connect with a character. The story, the setting, the writing and the companions all need to chime in to support these good character writing moments. In BG3, it feels like companions and their quests exist in their own vacuum, not truly having great reactivity with the rest of the game outside of very technical things. Things only matter if you make them matter to yourself. The game doesn't insist anything upon you, and I kind of need it to, otherwise I will have a hard time caring. Perhaps that's a weakness of character from my part that I can't just roleplay and find things that matter on my own though.
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andorvex
N3
Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 433 Likes: 880
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Free me now, I'm not answering questions, blah blah blah. Don't you know who I am?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by andorvex on Nov 13, 2024 20:49:58 GMT
There is a datamining video from Early access time showing that OG Halsin was much much more interesting and had direct connections to both Kathric and Isobel. They changed it because of rabbid horny fans mostly, I guarantee it I figured as much from the game's context. The game gave the impression that Halsin was the one who killed Isobel, when you consider the spear reward and Halsin's obsession. You're right on the money. That's exactly what it was |
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Biotic Commando
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 314 Likes: 617
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Post by Biotic Commando on Nov 13, 2024 20:51:45 GMT
I haven't seen that. Did that seductive dream lover look like a desire demon from DAO/DA2? If so, I would def have preferred that to stay that way. No. You were asked at character creation about your ideal lover, who you could make as a second character, and who would then appear in your dreams as the tadpole's incarnation. It was a nicely evil twist I must say. I've never seen anything like it in an RPG. I was really disappointed when I found out they changed it.
Hell that's actually better than a desire demon... |
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 13, 2024 20:51:50 GMT
Interesting. The conclusion to Astarion's good path arc was so well acted I teared up. It was so good. I got super emotional, same with SH. Took me a long time to start liking any of them though apart from Karlach. And when you play evil you look at Astarion , SH and Laezel and think: you're all as monstrous as me, lol. What is wrong with you all?! (It was GREAT!) I understand the not being serious part. It's what actually helped me enjoy playing an unhinged Bhaal psychopath. It was so over the top I had a blast with being comically evil. BG3 is a lot more serious than DOS2 though. That game was super tongue in cheek. At the end of cat 1 (?) when leaving the island my ex boyfriend and I had killed I think everyone because every scene ended with the realization "shit, you're all evil, need to kill you", lol. I will have a hard time caring. Perhaps that's a weakness of character from my part that I can't just roleplay and find things that matter on my own though. I find it difficult at times too. I've gotten better at it.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 13, 2024 20:56:28 GMT
They changed it because of rabid horny fans mostly, I guarantee it I think these people have the potential to ruin RPGs. In his latest video about DAV, Spell&Shield called them tourists that should stick to playing The Sims. I like my occasional romance, but if one becomes important, it's for other reasons than, as he put it, copulating with pixels, and characters in epic fantasy rpgs should not be made with "romanceability" in mind.
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Post by Ieldra on Nov 13, 2024 21:02:19 GMT
Things only matter if you make them matter to yourself. The game doesn't insist anything upon you, and I kind of need it to, otherwise I will have a hard time caring. Perhaps that's a weakness of character from my part that I can't just roleplay and find things that matter on my own though. I understand that. Having a hook for your imagination pulls you into the story more easily, and makes your character stick. I had a great deal of fun with my BG3 characters, but I've already forgotten all of their their names but one because nothing intrinsically linked them to the story. Meanwhile, I remember at least four of my DAO characters by name after 15 years, plus their motivations for the decisions they made.
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grallon
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Posts: 409 Likes: 1,047
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Post by grallon on Nov 13, 2024 21:04:58 GMT
I think there are some good moments of character writing that are emotional, but that itself doesn't make me emotional connect with a character. The story, the setting, the writing and the companions all need to chime in to support these good character writing moments. In BG3, it feels like companions and their quests exist in their own vacuum, not truly having great reactivity with the rest of the game outside of very technical things. Things only matter if you make them matter to yourself. The game doesn't insist anything upon you, and I kind of need it to, otherwise I will have a hard time caring. Perhaps that's a weakness of character from my part that I can't just roleplay and find things that matter on my own though. Isn't that a weakness of the source material itself though? I mean the DnD setting and Faerun. Yes, there is a ton of lore but it's modular by it's very nature. Let's just say it doesn't appear to me as integrated and organic as Thedas is/was. Every few years the rulebook is updated and portions of the lore change. As for BG3, it felt like a series of anecdotal occurrences strung together by a thin plotline and many contrivances. I guess it's a case of don't ask how the sausages are made, just enjoy the taste and texture.  |
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