Croatsky
N4
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Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: CroGamer002
Posts: 2,243 Likes: 5,039
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Croatsky
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
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croatsky
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Croatsky on Sept 1, 2020 17:56:41 GMT
Honestly man, a lot of these AAA story driven games are gonna take a lot of time before each subsequent release. We're already seeing this with games like RDR2, TLOU2, The next Elder Scrolls still seems a fair ways away, and GTA has yet to be announced at all (with the last one releasing in 2013). Generational sequels are starting to become the norm for these types of games. I hope some day future technology will allow game development to be shortened without losing quality. Because this new normal is, well, I don't like it. It's one thing to not rush the game in under 2 years, but another to just wait for nearly a decade.
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Syv
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Post by Syv on Sept 1, 2020 18:06:54 GMT
What I fear the most, is telling myself : " So I waited all these years for that ? Why ?
That's what I felt with Mass effect Andromeda, five years since M3, and yet less good than any of the previous mass effect. Mass effect 3 was released in 2012, two years after M2. How is it possible that a game that takes much longer could be that less good ? I asked myself for months.
I felt that way with other games as well. I feel like games take much more time for a result that is about the same standard at best.
It is why I do not agree with folks that state : " I'd rather Bioware take its time, even if it takes 10 years " If a game takes 10 years, that doesn't mean it will be fabulous, I'd rather think instead there are some issues with the managment of resources or the way the game is handled.
While I don't want games to be rushed, I don't think they should take too many years, especially in a franchise.
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Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Sept 1, 2020 20:26:04 GMT
I'm worried about DA4 being utterly forgettable like Andromeda with a cast of identity politics companions I couldn't care less about. I'm worried the game will include diving for collectibles and pointless flying because that's what people liked about Anthem so it MUST mean it's a good idea for DA4... I'm worried the game will be some kind of multiplayer hybrid and not a true singleplayer RPG. Like a more story heavy Anthem with dragons.
Overall I have little confidence in BioWare since Andromeda. There were aspects of DAI that had me worried in 2014 already and they worry me even more now. I want DA4 to be good but I expect it to be the final nail in th coffin for me. Their last remaining franchise turned into something I don't care about playing anymore. Also, at this rate I might be dead by the time they conclude the story, if they ever do. And if there's one thing I hate more than a series going bad, is a series that gets cancelled. Nothing makes me more mad than wasting years of my life on a narrative that never gets finished. And the longer it takes Bioware to get a game out, the more likely it becomes that they get closed down before the final game is made...
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wright1978
N4
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Sept 1, 2020 20:42:36 GMT
Something i’m Very concerned about is the Mc options. Recent games have felt very tight and nooselike in terms of range of characterization choice.
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Balsam Beige
N3
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Balsam Beige on Sept 1, 2020 20:56:56 GMT
I have lost all confidence in Bioware. I do not believe that they have the talent or leadership to create games like DAO,Kotor, ME1 or ME2. They aren't the same company that made those masterful games. I wish I was wrong but they have not shown me anything otherwise for almost a decade now. So yeah, I am skeptical.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 1, 2020 21:54:39 GMT
Well, let's see.
One DA4 will contain frustrating puzzles.
Two DA4 will be non-reactive to player choices
Three DA4 will contain filler quests galore
Four If DA:I is anything to go by, cities/towns will contain manikins again to represent a "living" "breathing" "vibrant" area to visit.
Five With the exception of maybe two romances, all others are "fillers" to satisfy the general player population fantasies.
Six There will be convoluted plot points to justify the existence of certain characters.
Seven Banter. I love banter... good banter. .. Leliana and Morrigan to name one. I'm expecting banter but the bar will be lower, this time.
Eight Combat mechanics will change once more. The mage will remain neutered.
Nine Inventory and GUI will remain sub-par to satisfy console controller limitations ( please visit DA:O as a reference).
Ten Game saves will remain online only and will be limited. Saving a game often is not possible but will be at the discretion of the devs' idea of where in the game a save can be made.
Eleven Level progression and grinding seems to be the game architects blind spot. I give you Anthem as a fine example of stupidity.
Twelve Gear upgrades will continue to be a chore and made more difficult because of reasons... (Anthem again).
Thirteen Limited camera view and control is to be expected. No PAUSE of course. I pray that 3rd person view is possible.
Fourteen Big concern is this will be another "play with friends" game thus the Role Play in the RPG is meaningless.
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Cantina
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Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Vive la révolution mages!
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Post by Cantina on Sept 2, 2020 2:02:02 GMT
Back when DAI was in pre-production, I came across an article about the author interviewing Bioware.
Within the article, Bioware stated they were looking heavily into The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim. Right then I knew the game was in trouble. And while I do not pat myself on the back for being correct, I am however saddened that such a premonition did come true.
I fully understand that any game studio will take something from another game and morph it into their game. But to use another game for the overall source of your game just shows how far Bioware has fallen or any studio for that matter.
DAO was an amazing game. Sure, it had a view bugs here and there, a few main story hiccups. But despite its flaws, it is a damn good game. I have been playing video games for over 35 years and no game has knocked Origins from my “All-time favorites” number one slot.
Dragon Age 2 came around and well, it was a bit messy but in a good way. I still felt like it was a Dragon Age game. True, places were reused, and the game was rather spartan but, the characters, the main story and even the side quests were a lot of fun.
And then there is DAI. (Rubs forehead) What a sodding mess and in a bad way.
If you took the time to pick apart every aspect of DAI, you will see what a disaster is. Look, DAO took three years to create as did DAI. DAO is older and less technologically advanced than DAI. And yet DAO STILL triumphant over DAI in so many ways.
DAI did not feel like Dragon Age at all. It felt like some messed up shit Bethesda and a mix of other studios would come up with.
Making your character a prisoner? Elder Scrolls.
Making some giant hole in the sky caused by magic? Sounds like something Blizzard would do.
Time Travel? Is used when a writer can not come up with anything better. This why it is used so damn much in the comic books.
Using a villain from a previous game’s DLC is a dick move. And in DAI Cory looked like he leapt out a Capcom game.
Writers forgetting their own lore, annoying and/or boring companions along with their cliché problems. War table quests being far more interesting the ones you can do.
Advisors agreeing with everything you do. Your character could leap on top of the War Table, drop his or her pants, shit and the Advisors would all clap in approval. Josie might say it smells, Cullen would say it looks like a bunny and Lilly would swear she sees clues when its actually corn. But still continue to clap and smile.
The painful dialogue. The empty world. The annoying combat. The hand holding.
Attributes and Abilities so stream lined, that everyone shared the same abilities and most of your abilities were passives. What the hell happened to me allocating my attributes? Or me setting up the party’s combat tactics? And where the hell did my combat wheel go for my extra powers?!!? And is with this, you can only choose from these three special trees? FFS!
The main story was just dreadful. And it ends on a cliffhanger thinking you will play your Quizzy next game, but you will not, you’ll be playing a new protagonist to clean up the mess from last game, just like DAI did from DA2.
DA4 is going to follow the same bullshit DAI did because the production video is a sodding siren sounding off with flashing red lights.
As with DAI, I said numerous times, “Bioware cares more about making pretty trees then they did about the writing.” And DA4 is on that same path. All they showed was a bunch of concept arts, which eight times out of ten are just that -- concept art. And they went on and on with motion capture, like its some new technology. I do not give two tin shits about pretty trees or motion capture. What I do want is good storytelling Origins and even hell DA2 gave.
Then you must take in account that it is had been six years since the last DA game. SIX YEARS! And they are just starting production?!?
So, what did they do in those past six years?
Anthem – fail.
Andromeda – fail.
Mass Effect studio got shut down and many people lost their jobs.
Bioware shut down their main forums.
Bioware loses more people.
Bioware practically disconnects themselves from their fans. But will happily poke their heads of the hole to blame the fans. Case-in-point: Lilly's death in DAO and the explanation in DAI.
I love Dragon Age, but I will not nor ever be some fanboy who will blindly follow and stands with Bioware precariously teetering on a cliff. DAI was not setup for current fans. It was set up to draw in new fans who are as easily amused as a cat with a box. The DA team no longer has any passion or soul. Just create pretty trees and hope enough new easily pliable players come in to defend their pile of oozing shit. And old fans of the series will come to their defense because in the words of Dorian, “They refuse to believe how far [Bioware] has fallen because pretending is easier. “
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Spectr61
N3
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Spectr61
Posts: 812 Likes: 1,257
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Post by Spectr61 on Sept 2, 2020 4:00:15 GMT
Right now, I think my only real trepidation is what the state of the game will be on release day. Hopefully it'll have a smoother launch than their last 3 games. Not to worry H, they've got top, I mean top, people working on it......
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 2, 2020 9:22:45 GMT
Bioware practically disconnects themselves from their fans. But will happily poke their heads of the hole to blame the fans. Case-in-point: Lilly's death in DAO and the explanation in DAI. Okay, I know this isn't the point of your rant, but please explain where Lilly's death is explained in DAI? This is the second time I've seen this and its driving me crazy trying to find it on the Wiki with no success. There is an entry in WoT2 that hints that is what will happen to her but we never go to Aonar, so was there a codex, or some figure with a label attached saying "Lily"? I know it isn't important in the grand scheme of things but I would like to know.
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DarkSnow
N2
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by DarkSnow on Sept 2, 2020 16:53:15 GMT
Ten Game saves will remain online only and will be limited. Saving a game often is not possible but will be at the discretion of the devs' idea of where in the game a save can be made. I've got several therabytes of storage space on my pc, not counting the server, and this thing really irritates me. I understand they do that to make playing on another computer easier and all that jazz but at least give me the option to decide where to save, and if I'm on PC then how often or how many times. The hard-coded save limit on DAI was... ugh! It made me so mad!
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Kaibe
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Post by Kaibe on Sept 2, 2020 18:16:20 GMT
Bioware practically disconnects themselves from their fans. But will happily poke their heads of the hole to blame the fans. Case-in-point: Lilly's death in DAO and the explanation in DAI. Okay, I know this isn't the point of your rant, but please explain where Lilly's death is explained in DAI? This is the second time I've seen this and its driving me crazy trying to find it on the Wiki with no success. There is an entry in WoT2 that hints that is what will happen to her but we never go to Aonar, so was there a codex, or some figure with a label attached saying "Lily"? I know it isn't important in the grand scheme of things but I would like to know. Maybe they mean Leliana?
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Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
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buckeldemon
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 2, 2020 18:17:34 GMT
Bioware practically disconnects themselves from their fans. But will happily poke their heads of the hole to blame the fans. Case-in-point: Lilly's death in DAO and the explanation in DAI. Okay, I know this isn't the point of your rant, but please explain where Lilly's death is explained in DAI? This is the second time I've seen this and its driving me crazy trying to find it on the Wiki with no success. There is an entry in WoT2 that hints that is what will happen to her but we never go to Aonar, so was there a codex, or some figure with a label attached saying "Lily"? I know it isn't important in the grand scheme of things but I would like to know. I wonder if Cantina is talking about Leliana? I've seen the name shortened to something Lil(l)y at times in context, some people use "Leli", I use "Lel" or "Lels".
Edit: Hmm... to slow.
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jamiecotc
N2
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Abby... Normal.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: JamieCOTC
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Post by jamiecotc on Sept 2, 2020 19:36:03 GMT
This isn't Dragon Age specific, but I hope BW will end the multiple endings sales pitch. DA:I, ME3, and MEA all had one ending with a multitude of small variations. And that's perfectly fine.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 2, 2020 19:47:36 GMT
I wonder if Cantina is talking about Leliana? I've seen the name shortened to something Lil(l)y at times in context, some people use "Leli", I use "Lel" or "Lels". Oh, I see. I get it now. Right, now I understand. That you, folks. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/KGsHESiZGZU0pPuHuhQr.png)
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 2, 2020 21:54:47 GMT
Honestly man, a lot of these AAA story driven games are gonna take a lot of time before each subsequent release. We're already seeing this with games like RDR2, TLOU2, The next Elder Scrolls still seems a fair ways away, and GTA has yet to be announced at all (with the last one releasing in 2013). Generational sequels are starting to become the norm for these types of games. I hope some day future technology will allow game development to be shortened without losing quality. Because this new normal is, well, I don't like it. It's one thing to not rush the game in under 2 years, but another to just wait for nearly a decade.
There's more to it than that of course. I like to think in terms of one of my favourite authors' ability to pop out very good novels within 8-10 months. Unfortunately, like every other good author, they need to change "scenery" to keep their skill. So, while I enjoy series A book 1 thru 3, I find Iwait a year or two for book 4. Why? because the author write a new series book 1-2. Then a 3rd series is written... in the mean time, I'm waiting for my favourite series A . Very frustrating.
Add the publisher's book schedule and the mean time between favourite books can take a looong time
Writing a video game story is more complicated as it requires the graphic artists to enter the picture.. add the level/map creators to see if everything works. ... discard and start over 'cause the pacing is too slow.... etc. Add mgt incompetence into the mix. Add the need for a new video game (Anthem) and time just passes by.
Just saying......
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 3, 2020 9:15:17 GMT
I just hope they learned from their mistakes when making the 4th game. Even though I have my doubts, because they done a horrible job on Andromeda and Anthem. Plus, the over use of Frostbite Engine that causes problems.
Other than that, I really, really, really hope that BioWare don't fuck this up.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 3, 2020 9:18:09 GMT
I have lost all confidence in Bioware. I do not believe that they have the talent or leadership to create games like DAO,Kotor, ME1 or ME2. They aren't the same company that made those masterful games. I wish I was wrong but they have not shown me anything otherwise for almost a decade now. So yeah, I am skeptical. Can't say I blame you, because I felt the exact same way.
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Cantina
N3
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Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 532 Likes: 952
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Vive la révolution mages!
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Post by Cantina on Sept 3, 2020 9:50:44 GMT
Okay, I know this isn't the point of your rant, but please explain where Lilly's death is explained in DAI? This is the second time I've seen this and its driving me crazy trying to find it on the Wiki with no success. There is an entry in WoT2 that hints that is what will happen to her but we never go to Aonar, so was there a codex, or some figure with a label attached saying "Lily"? I know it isn't important in the grand scheme of things but I would like to know. Maybe they mean Leliana? Yes!
Apologies for the confusion. Proper spelling on names is not my strong suit, so I gave Leliana a nickname-- Lilly, Cassandra to Cassie, Viv is just The Iron Bitch. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/RebJidSPcxyF0U0Rr0uW.png)
I tried and failed -- again, to get through DAI. Shortly after getting to Skyhold, I become bored and quit.
And here I am updating my mods for Origins. A little voice inside my head says, I will probably be doing this in a few years from now when DA4 comes out.
(Sighs) IF only DAO on PC had controller support, I would be in complete heaven.
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Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Vive la révolution mages!
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Post by Cantina on Sept 3, 2020 9:58:21 GMT
I just hope they learned from their mistakes when making the 4th game. Even though I have my doubts, because they done a horrible job on Andromeda and Anthem. Plus, the over use of Frostbite Engine that causes problems. Other than that, I really, really, really hope that BioWare don't fuck this up. You know this kind of reminds of the prequel Star Wars movies.
Lucas gets a hold of CGI and well, everyone knows the result.
I am seeing parallels with Bioware. I guess pretty trees were supposed to fill the gaping void of emptiness DAI brought.
OMG! I just realized, Sera is the Jar-Jar Binks of Dragon Age!
And Solas is Anakin Skywalker, "You underestimate my power!" (Turns a Qunari to stone).
I better stop now because this is scary.
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Sept 3, 2020 15:20:40 GMT
Yesterday I watched the first episode of the videogame documentary on Netflix about the Atari era and how games took only a few months to program (9 months tops, the ET game was made by one guy in 5 weeks!).
They still made millions with these simple games.
Man, today we all gotta be grateful when it takes only 5 years. This sucks.
I like my games pretty but I'd rather Bioware ditch open world and get a game out in 2-3 years that focuses on choices.
Those days are never coming back though..
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ahglock
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Sept 4, 2020 1:16:19 GMT
I'm concerned about the game getting significantly delayed. I know, a rather unpopular stance as you want for game to be as polished as possible. But it's been 6 years since DAI, along with 3 years from MEA that did not have any post-release DLC content. The most concrete info we have for the next DA game release is around Spring 2022, which is a long ass time and even then it's just an earlier estimate at the investors brief. Meaning realistically, actual release date will be even later. So at best 8 years of wait, 7 with Trespasser, for the next DA game??? That's nuts, that's an entire console generation change too! I hope after the nightmare developments of MEA and Anthem( although it was also the case since ME1 and DAO, it only exploded in their faces now), BioWare got their priorities and have the core system in place. Honestly man, a lot of these AAA story driven games are gonna take a lot of time before each subsequent release. We're already seeing this with games like RDR2, TLOU2, The next Elder Scrolls still seems a fair ways away, and GTA has yet to be announced at all (with the last one releasing in 2013). Generational sequels are starting to become the norm for these types of games. Is it story driven games or Bioware. They are what 3 years in and they have virtually nothing to show for it. I don't mind 6-7 years if they are actually using that 6-7 years. Odds are though bioware will futz around get nothing done for 5 years then slap out a piece of crap in 2 more.
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ahglock
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Sept 4, 2020 1:17:34 GMT
I just hope they learned from their mistakes when making the 4th game. Even though I have my doubts, because they done a horrible job on Andromeda and Anthem. Plus, the over use of Frostbite Engine that causes problems. Other than that, I really, really, really hope that BioWare don't fuck this up. You know this kind of reminds of the prequel Star Wars movies.
Lucas gets a hold of CGI and well, everyone knows the result.
I am seeing parallels with Bioware. I guess pretty trees were supposed to fill the gaping void of emptiness DAI brought.
OMG! I just realized, Sera is the Jar-Jar Binks of Dragon Age!
And Solas is Anakin Skywalker, "You underestimate my power!" (Turns a Qunari to stone).
I better stop now because this is scary. I'm not even a Jar Jar fan and I think you are doing him dirty with this.
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Post by biggydx on Sept 4, 2020 6:17:05 GMT
Honestly man, a lot of these AAA story driven games are gonna take a lot of time before each subsequent release. We're already seeing this with games like RDR2, TLOU2, The next Elder Scrolls still seems a fair ways away, and GTA has yet to be announced at all (with the last one releasing in 2013). Generational sequels are starting to become the norm for these types of games. Is it story driven games or Bioware. They are what 3 years in and they have virtually nothing to show for it. I don't mind 6-7 years if they are actually using that 6-7 years. Odds are though bioware will futz around get nothing done for 5 years then slap out a piece of crap in 2 more. I wouldn't say its limited to BioWare. Rockstar is notorious for announcing their games only within the same year they release them. Bethesda also did the same with their Fallout series. You also have to consider games like TLOU2. The first came out in 2012, a full 8 years ago. Players (on average) expect a lot of graphical fidelity, as well as more content, with each subsequent release. They want to feel like they're getting their money's worth, which is peculiar since youd probably find a lot of casual players who dislike games taking 30+ hrs to finish. Also, while I'm skeptical of the finished product, Schreiers articles on their development for Dragon Age did hint that they took steps to prototype out what assets they could work with/stretch. Another notable problem that DA4 may not have to struggle with is having to build things from scratch, as was the case with DAI, Andromeda, and Anthem. While I know theres concerns about them using Anthems engine for DA4, it at least allows them to supersede one of the major hurdles that's plagued their previous Frostbite titles. That likely reduces a lot of preproduction time the studio had to mess with; creative cohesion aside . For me, the looming issue is whether they continue down the road of making their playspaces 'shallow ponds'. There may be areas that are pretty to look at, but do they have anything substantive in them, or is it all just empty space? Another, of course, is the story and how reactive the world is to our decision making. A lot of that didnt get realized in DAI, partly due to last gen console limitations. Even still, it's a valid concern. That, and how well they're going to be able to juggle multiple outstanding conflicts in a single game (e.g. Solas, Qunari invasion, another Blight, Red Lyrium plague, etc)
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Post by Cantina on Sept 4, 2020 8:31:45 GMT
You know this kind of reminds of the prequel Star Wars movies.
Lucas gets a hold of CGI and well, everyone knows the result.
I am seeing parallels with Bioware. I guess pretty trees were supposed to fill the gaping void of emptiness DAI brought.
OMG! I just realized, Sera is the Jar-Jar Binks of Dragon Age!
And Solas is Anakin Skywalker, "You underestimate my power!" (Turns a Qunari to stone).
I better stop now because this is scary. I'm not even a Jar Jar fan and I think you are doing him dirty with this. D-A-M-N! Never thought I see the day when Jar-Jar would be less annoying than another. Wonders never cease.
You know that does make me wonder why Bioware thought Sera was a good idea. What was her purpose??!? I get why she joined the Inquisition--mostly. But 99% of her dialogue is just so bad. Bioware, "Here is an immature teen who talks nonsense most of the time as a companion for your party. Do enjoy!"
Is this another case of Sandal? I cannot recall who said it down at Bioware, but the reason Sandal was placed in the game was for humor. I for one do not see the humor in making fun of disabled people, but I digress.
I sure the hope Sera or someone like her or him is not in DA4. Bohdan and Sandal? Yes. God, yes! So sad they did not show in DAI
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 4, 2020 9:28:47 GMT
You know that does make me wonder why Bioware thought Sera was a good idea. What was her purpose??!? Same purpose as Oghran I suppose. He annoyed the hell out of me, so clichéd and offensive, but some people found him funny. Then he turned up again in Awakening! Why couldn't they have given me Shale or simply Dog again? May be Sera was meant to be the foil to Solas. One is all wrapped up in how great the elves were in the past, the other actually hates being an elf, being identified as an elf or anything remotely "elfy". However, for some reason they had to have her express these ideas in an antagonistic, often offensive, and largely juvenile way. So to me she was just another Oghran, whom I rarely included in my party because I could manage without her and just dropped by her occasionally for another verbal barrage. My first run we never got beyond that and it was all I could do just not simply tell her to get lost but it seemed if the game was going to recognise me as actually caring about the little people, then I had to put up with her.
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