Dragon Age The Joyguard (formerly Hype Train) [Spoilers]

Yeah it's a good point not fitting in with the type of theme Bioware was going for if written as too saccharine. I suppose for me I never completely saw the idea as going back to your happy old life, because we can't leave the wardens, can't have children (if that's wanted) and it would be a pretty tough relationship for both of the parties involved because you would spend more time apart then you would together. There's also the fact that most of the loves you had beforehand are probably not capable of adventuring around with you, like Leliana or Zevran is. I still would've liked the option depending on my play-through and I could still see them fitting into Origin's dark theme/tone.

I kind of forgot about lord Aeducan, I don't think I've ever played a male dwarf.

EDIT: I didn't quote Noxluxe so I'll just tag.

You know something else I am hyped for? I just thought of?

Its been a looooonnngg time since DAI came out (as any of us know) and the gaming industry has changed monumentally in that time...I mean DAI itself is really a transition game in the first place. Gaming conventions have changed, graphical fidelity, even the quality of stories have all evolved over this time. So much so that some people have said that BioWare has even 'fallen behind' during this process (and I suppose Anthem may even indicate that).

But I am looking forward to them using all these gameplay conventions and giving us a true modern day master piece that I suspect they are capable of.

Yes, I remember this its called Mass Effect Andromeda.

Jokes aside though...I mean A. there is always a concern that your predictions of doom will come to pass. Now I often do wonder just how pervasive 'woke media' actually is versus how much people somtimes over react to things...because the stuff out there that I think are legitimatley woke is rare. And B....well I forgot the B or it could just be a repitition of A.

But again I am not overly worried about that stuff happening in 4 because I do not think BioWare has done...that...kind of stuff. Dragon Age especially while it has gotten acused of such the last entry in the franchise, Inquisition, was certainly chalk full of everything you described. Plus, while I have mixed feelings on THIS little nuggest everything in their media and marketing at this point, BTS, the trailer in 2018, the pictures, TVN point to a game that is at least going for a much darker tone. Whether or not this is a good thing or not, whether or not BioWare will execute it properly, whether or not it will only by darker in terms of ambient light levels and not mature story telling...we'll have to see when we get there. But, I guess the point is while at least the last two BioWare games have certainly had a mixed reception I'm not really judging DA 4 by them...but by Inquisition which is my greatest game of all time, and for all the reasons you list.

Well at least the sites won't be infested with CPDR superfans trying to attack us anymore if DA4 is very good. (Which I know it will be. )

Oh, there are definitely instances of people overreacting to even just the appearance of wokeness. But the idea that wokeness isn't pervasive is a joke now. Almost every major and widely beloved franchise has splintered its fandom over the stuff. Remember when ardent Doctor Who, Star Trek and Toy Story fans were a thing? You know, last year? And no offense, but if I compiled the moments of convenient forgetfulness and insane stretches of logic you've happily made to try to defend Star War's writing into a single post, I could make a serious argument that your IQ drops twenty points whenever it comes up.

And I don't see it in terms of 'the last two Bioware games having a mixed reception', I see what looks like a pattern of gradual decline. DAI wasn't shit by any means, and while there was wokeness in it and it presented a much more family-friendly and lighthearted and shallow image of Thedas than the preveious games, it also came out in 2014, at the very beginning of this craze. Andromeda came out in 2017 and was just overall lazier, exhibiting most of the same issues only a bit worse, while being way, way too similar to Inquisition in style and atmosphere.

Going by that curve alone, the idea of a 2020 Bioware RPG is triggering my fight-or-flight instinct. No comment on Anthem. Never played it or even looked at it, don't give a damn. And so far I haven't seen anything substantial to indicate DA4's feel or look one way or the other.


Uhm, I wasn't suggesting that the game should be outright nihilistic. The whole point of brutal and hard stories is that the glimmers of humanity and optimism are there, you just have to work to find and protect them. 

And I'm not sure I follow. Classic fairy tales are absolutely dark and gritty and full of misery, completely independently of the existence of wonder and magic and love and moral resilience. As are the most popular fantasy franchises of all time. And no offense, but can you give me an example of a piece of media where people generally had trouble rooting for anyone just because the story wasn't all feel-good? The idea is peddled often enough, but it never made sense to me. And I could list counterexamples of fans being all the more attracted to characters and societies specifically because they had to struggle to get anywhere from now until 2030.

The way I see it we're regressing from being comfortable with mature stories to stuffing ourselves with pandering trussed-up children's content, not maturing past some obsession with darkness and despair.

*shrug*

Fair enough. The subject is dropped. 

Just for once I would like my adult stories to be light hearted, no need for it to be doused in neverending darkness because the writer feels it's "adult."

I would like more wondrous creatures in a 'beautiful world' which aren't automatically hostile. Rhyming trees, Lady of the Forest, things which can have a conversation and we don't have to kill. Having different pathways of interaction and allowing these creatures to be killed is acceptable, but I wish more Bioware creatures had other methods of interaction than 'chop until it stops moving.'

Along that line, I hope for more 'optimal path' outcomes. Not for every choice, but I liked said Lady of the Forest quest where we can end the curse and her suffering rather than side with elves or werewolves. Geth and quarians. Saving Connor (ignoring that we leave an abomination unchecked in the castle for who knows how long we're in the Circle).

Not every choice needs to have an optimum result but those feel so much more rewarding given the hoops we have to jump through to reach them. If every major choice is going to be mage vs templar again I'll be disappointed. Some cases like Tevinter vs Qun might be inevitable, but I hope there could be a 'Lucerni has tentative alliance with less-dogmatic Qun group' option if we really work for it.

Maybe this would all be too woke in having a golden ending. I don't think showing that there are people who aren't extremists is a bad thing, though. Perhaps given current politics having become so extreme it's reflected in the games. It would be nice to see that current leadership of the factions is extreme but the average person has a voice which can dissent and steer the course back to moderation. Sounds like that would go with the theme of the PC starting off as powerless.

None of the Dragon Age games was ever, even remotely, not even toe-in, in the never ending darkness zone. 

This may well be a possibility. However, his words there are why I don't think those cultists are acting independently of him. At the very least, if he didn't approve of what they were doing, he would eliminate them because their actions could harm his plan. After all, it wouldn't be difficult for him to do this seeing as apparently he can even kill dwarves in their sleep.

Also, I think by remove he means kill rather than simply make redundant from the organisation.  However, I have already suggested one person he already "killed" in the Fade and thus who may in fact not be dead and that is Felassan.  Now he would be a very interesting recruit to have on our side.

The 1.3 years I have been around here, I have seen some of this already... accurate. Not sure about the rest.