Andraste_Reborn
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,867 Likes: 8,157
inherit
469
0
8,157
Andraste_Reborn
1,867
August 2016
andrastereborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 22, 2024 9:33:36 GMT
I have to say I just don't get it All I have to say about this is that it's always a good thing to be able to get it. For nuance sake if not for anything else. As for the rest of your comment, I simply would say that I'm not arguing about the what, I'm arguing about the how. Trick's writing is unsatisfactory, subjectively. I bet, If BioWare were to release data of the -least- romanced character that would be them (the poll here also marginally proved that), and I'm writing this not because of hate, but disappointment how lackluster their writing is - and possible implication of it. See, I'm not talking about the quality of the writing at all, I'm talking about how people get from 'I don't like the way this character's story is written' to 'this character is the writer's self-insert.'
I have seen a lot of people criticize the way Oghren's story is handled in DAO (and have criticized it myself, for that matter) but I have not once seen anyone say 'Oghren's character is bad because he's Jay Turner's self-insert.' Obviously that would be a bananas thing to say, even though Ogrhen and Jay Turner are both (AFAIK) straight men. Why is it a more reasonable conclusion when a non-binary person writes a non-binary character?
|
|
inherit
1189
0
Nov 30, 2024 11:21:51 GMT
956
lucidae
301
August 2016
lucidae
|
Post by lucidae on Nov 22, 2024 9:33:49 GMT
I have to say I just don't get it All I have to say about this is that it's always a good thing to be able to get it. For nuance sake if not for anything else. As for the rest of your comment, I simply would say that I'm not arguing about the what, I'm arguing about the how. Trick's writing is unsatisfactory, subjectively. I bet, If BioWare were to release data of the -least- romanced character that would be them (the poll here also marginally proved that), and I'm writing this not because of hate, but disappointment how lackluster their writing is - and possible implication of it. Reading this comment with my pov thinking of romancing taash on my second playthrough because I think their story is good: 👁👄👁
|
|
VARMAELEN
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 146 Likes: 195
inherit
12705
0
195
VARMAELEN
146
July 2024
varmaelen
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by VARMAELEN on Nov 22, 2024 9:44:19 GMT
All I have to say about this is that it's always a good thing to be able to get it. For nuance sake if not for anything else. As for the rest of your comment, I simply would say that I'm not arguing about the what, I'm arguing about the how. Trick's writing is unsatisfactory, subjectively. I bet, If BioWare were to release data of the -least- romanced character that would be them (the poll here also marginally proved that), and I'm writing this not because of hate, but disappointment how lackluster their writing is - and possible implication of it. See, I'm not talking about the quality of the writing at all, I'm talking about how people get from 'I don't like the way this character's story is written' to 'this character is the writer's self-insert.'
I have seen a lot of people criticize the way Oghren's story is handled in DAO (and have criticized it myself, for that matter) but I have not once seen anyone say 'Oghren's character is bad because he's Jay Turner's self-insert.' Obviously that would be a bananas thing to say, even though Ogrhen and Jay Turner are both (AFAIK) straight men. Why is it a more reasonable conclusion when a non-binary person writes a non-binary character?
Oh yes, to address that specifically: I argue that it's a self insert because it's not only relatable, it's a caricature. It's like Mass Effect 2 Jacob Taylor. Self insert is not inherently bad, it becomes bad when the quality of the writing of said self insert is bad. That's why I bring up quality.
|
|
inherit
12686
0
Nov 30, 2024 22:27:16 GMT
640
hookntackle
I believe in you.
188
Jun 14, 2024 15:33:40 GMT
June 2024
hookntackle
|
Post by hookntackle on Nov 22, 2024 12:50:44 GMT
I wonder:
We're all a bunch of funny, loveable people in here, enjoying all of these things more or less, and like to chat about it. A lot of us habitually judge specifically "the quality" of the writing, and as someone who honestly never feels like using that particular phrasing, I wonder what the other side of it is.
Like really trying to map out what that is. So a person who likes games and fantasy and hopefully Dragon Age at least as much as we, yet who's made it far enough to make a living of doing specifically that; submits their work, yet not just them, but a whole host of other professionals in their respective fields, utterly fail to recognize what seems to be painfully obvious to a whole group of people on any given afternoon. And just as clearly as this happens in the one, it does not in other instances, everyone back to doing their jobs up to standard there.
It's just a fascinating thing to me to fully visualize. I mean, I get that everyone really just means "don't like", but the implications of the terminology just get me every time.
|
|
TabithaTH
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 780 Likes: 1,616
inherit
10360
0
1,616
TabithaTH
780
Jul 22, 2018 12:32:26 GMT
July 2018
teatabitha
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by TabithaTH on Nov 22, 2024 15:34:17 GMT
This ended up getting a bit personal, so feel free to skip if you feel it’s too much.
I actually really like Taash as a character, I just think some of their writing has been mishandled. To me Taash’s story feels less like propaganda and more like an afterschool special teaching kids about gender identities. Like that one Codex reads like a wiki entry. Taash’ ‘problem’ is a classic case of telling instead of showing. Also they didn’t know where to put the focus. Taash has so many identity issues, not just about gender. Ultimately I feel like Culture and living up to your parents expectations became more prominent as their story went on. This is where I feel the focus should have been from the start, but then I’m biased.
I’ve never really struggled with my gender identity, but I still found plenty of relatable stuff with Taash. My mom was also a scholar and I still feel like I live in her shadow. She never said anything the way Taash’s mom does, but I still felt this immense responsibility to be like she wanted. Even now that I’m a mom myself, I still struggle with not being the same kind of parent she was, while simultaneously trying to avoid repeating the same subconscious pressure.
I also lost my mom when I was 27, obviously less violently than Taash, but still rather sudden. Her heart just stopped one day. When she died, I realized just how much of my identity was tied to being her daughter, rather than being myself. I essentially had to start over from scratch figuring out who I was.
|
|
inherit
1189
0
Nov 30, 2024 11:21:51 GMT
956
lucidae
301
August 2016
lucidae
|
Post by lucidae on Nov 22, 2024 16:51:57 GMT
This ended up getting a bit personal, so feel free to skip if you feel it’s too much. I actually really like Taash as a character, I just think some of their writing has been mishandled. To me Taash’s story feels less like propaganda and more like an afterschool special teaching kids about gender identities. Like that one Codex reads like a wiki entry. Taash’ ‘problem’ is a classic case of telling instead of showing. Also they didn’t know where to put the focus. Taash has so many identity issues, not just about gender. Ultimately I feel like Culture and living up to your parents expectations became more prominent as their story went on. This is where I feel the focus should have been from the start, but then I’m biased. I’ve never really struggled with my gender identity, but I still found plenty of relatable stuff with Taash. My mom was also a scholar and I still feel like I live in her shadow. She never said anything the way Taash’s mom does, but I still felt this immense responsibility to be like she wanted. Even now that I’m a mom myself, I still struggle with not being the same kind of parent she was, while simultaneously trying to avoid repeating the same subconscious pressure. I also lost my mom when I was 27, obviously less violently than Taash, but still rather sudden. Her heart just stopped one day. When she died, I realized just how much of my identity was tied to being her daughter, rather than being myself. I essentially had to start over from scratch figuring out who I was. Considering how many folks live in ignorance of gender identity issues, i get why the writers went with a more simple approach during certain conversations like the early one where taash talks with neve. I think the only thing that really felt off to me was just how abruptly these conversations were had. Like you come home to the lighthouse after killing some venatori and then BAM gender identity discussion seemingly out of nowhere. But maybe that's how it happens in real life, idk I'm a cis female whose LGBT friends already knew they were LGBT or they went through that process while we were at separate colleges 🤷♀️ I also find the amount of identity crisis that taash is under to be real. Picking just gender or just immigration or just an overbearing parent would've been easier but Taash's issues are very real. I got a friend who is a first generation immigrant from the Philippines. His Parents pushed him so hard to be a dentist, the perfect first born son, and they regularly attended catholic church. He tried so hard to be what they wanted him to. He even worked as a dental hygienist for a while and got the bachelor's degree he'd need to be ready for a phd dentist program. Well after a LOT of struggle and time spent trying to figure himself out he has completely abandoned working in dentistry and he's marrying a man. When he came out as bi to his parents it did not go well for a long time. I don't find taashs identity issues to be too much,if anything she's one of the realest characters. Imagine being a queer kid of an immigrant family that's from an anti-queer culture. Oh and your parent is a tiger parent. (Tiger parents alone drive kids to suicide or accidental OD from the stress of expectations they put their kids under.)
|
|
inherit
12686
0
Nov 30, 2024 22:27:16 GMT
640
hookntackle
I believe in you.
188
Jun 14, 2024 15:33:40 GMT
June 2024
hookntackle
|
Post by hookntackle on Nov 22, 2024 20:09:37 GMT
Not trying to change the whole topic at hand but just for perspective:
I think the reason I'm so excited for Davrin and Tash is because they're both black characters, and they're cool.
This has always been.. problematic in bioware games - not because they're racist or whatever-, and the reason I get so triggered by at least Tash being universally flagged as the stupid bad character over the controversial things to her part, is Jacob Taylor.
Jake was a well adjusted, savvy, no BS, powerful companion with cool design and a believable back story, plus one of the most interesting LMs and unique behaviour - whether that makes him likeable or not as a person - in his "poor" treatment of femshep LIs. And he was not given any cool token black bro buddy bs lines neither! He didn't need to be coddled, spoke his mind and had all his homework done before they met Shepard. They were just there to help. Not have their upbringing fixed.
It is ludicrous to me still today that he universally became a meme for being a bad fucking character. And yes I'm still hurt about that, but basically by oblivious people who have no idea what he meant as a symbol.
They made Vivienne (still a cool char) utterly inaproachable, and otherwise it's slim pickens.
And now I see the same shit happen to one or two more stylish characters (at last!) just because of the guardians of writing perfection or whatever.
Not even mentioning the gall to act all chapped assed by "all the wokeness", suh-ree.
Suh-ree indeed, I'm having a bitchy day today.
|
|
inherit
1189
0
Nov 30, 2024 11:21:51 GMT
956
lucidae
301
August 2016
lucidae
|
Post by lucidae on Nov 22, 2024 20:19:26 GMT
Not trying to change the whole topic at hand but just for perspective: I think the reason I'm so excited for Davrin and Tash is because they're both black characters, and they're cool. This has always been.. problematic in bioware games - not because they're racist or whatever-, and the reason I get so triggered by at least Tash being universally flagged as the stupid bad character over the controversial things to her part, is Jacob Taylor. Jake was a well adjusted, savvy, no BS, powerful companion with cool design and a believable back story, plus one of the most interesting LMs and unique behaviour - whether that makes him likeable or not as a person - in his "poor" treatment of femshep LIs. And he was not given any cool token black bro buddy bs lines neither! He didn't need to be coddled, spoke his mind and had all his homework done before they met Shepard. They were just there to help. Not have their upbringing fixed. It is ludicrous to me still today that he universally became a meme for being a bad fucking character. And yes I'm still hurt about that, but basically by oblivious people who have no idea what he meant as a symbol. They made Vivienne (still a cool char) utterly inaproachable, and otherwise it's slim pickens. And now I see the same shit happen to one or two more stylish characters (at last!) just because of the guardians of writing perfection or whatever. Not even mentioning the gall to act all chapped assed by "all the wokeness", suh-ree. Suh-ree indeed, I'm having a bitchy day today. Your perspective is so interesting to me. My mind doesn't perceive Taash as black because to me she's qunari/kossith. When I played Aion I played an asmodian character with navy blue skin and platinum blonde hair because I thought it looked sick. One day my friend asked me "why did you make a black character?" and I was just like, she's not black! She's blue!!! 🤯 my mind was blown realizing how different the perceptions of my character were hahaha I don't play ME. But I agree with you about Davrin. He's a cool black character and we need more of those😁 i think this is part of why Ekko from league/arcane and miles morales are so popular. Theyre such cool, smart, and kind black kids, and there aren't many represented in media. Statik shock is also great and I wish he got a reboot. LOVED THAT SHOW
|
|
inherit
ღ Voice of Reason
169
0
17,781
Element Zero
7,451
August 2016
elementzero
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by Element Zero on Nov 23, 2024 1:47:32 GMT
I don't think of Taash as a black character, but the first time I saw Taash, I said to my wife, "Oh, she's cute. They designed her as a black girl." It's their facial features.
I am one of the very few who really likes Jacob Taylor. He's a consummate professional who does nothing but support Shepard every step of the way, excepting the bizarre turn in the romance. It turns out that fans don't like professionals who act like adults and have their crap together without player intervention. It makes them "boring". Jacob and Kaidan are awesome characters. I like no-drama adults on my team.
|
|
inherit
12686
0
Nov 30, 2024 22:27:16 GMT
640
hookntackle
I believe in you.
188
Jun 14, 2024 15:33:40 GMT
June 2024
hookntackle
|
Post by hookntackle on Nov 23, 2024 10:54:20 GMT
I don't think of Taash as a black character, but the first time I saw Taash, I said to my wife, "Oh, she's cute. They designed her as a black girl." It's their facial features. I am one of the very few who really likes Jacob Taylor. He's a consummate professional who does nothing but support Shepard every step of the way, expecting the bizarre turn in the romance. It turns out that fans don't like professionals who act like adults and have their crap together without player intervention. It makes them "boring". Jacob and Kaidan are awesome characters. I like no-drama adults on my team. Yes! Big shout out to Kaidan, too. I love his brand of strength. Like he's never shy to admit when he feels insecure or doesn't have all the answers, but I always felt like he had this unshakable self-confidence in who he is at any given moment. Everyone else is constantly busy selling you who they are at every turn - because that's how most people are - so that's why those few really stand out. Another very mature character imo PS obviously because of the facial structure. Also, Davrin has uh, elf ears.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
37,078
colfoley
19,175
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Nov 25, 2024 19:19:04 GMT
Toughest thing about watching everyone give their ratings on everything it makes me want to do it to even if it's something I don't do or at least know I shouldn't.
|
|
inherit
424
0
Nov 30, 2024 21:41:49 GMT
6,859
Andrew Waples
4,340
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
|
Post by Andrew Waples on Nov 25, 2024 23:54:08 GMT
The fustrating thing about the whole no expansion thing is that we finally have the means to go anywhere in Theadas because of The Crossroads and Eluivans, but now we can't do that. I haven't finished the game yet. So, I don't know the state yet of Crossroads/Eluivans.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
37,078
colfoley
19,175
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Nov 25, 2024 23:56:41 GMT
The fustrating thing about the whole no expansion thing is that we finally have the means to go anywhere in Theadas because of The Crossroads and Eluivans, but now we can't do that. doubly so since despite being more then in Inquisition the Dwarves seemingly got shafted for the second game in a row.
|
|
inherit
424
0
Nov 30, 2024 21:41:49 GMT
6,859
Andrew Waples
4,340
August 2016
andrewwaples1
Andrew_Waples
|
Post by Andrew Waples on Nov 26, 2024 0:05:00 GMT
The fustrating thing about the whole no expansion thing is that we finally have the means to go anywhere in Theadas because of The Crossroads and Eluivans, but now we can't do that. doubly so since despite being more then in Inquisition the Dwarves seemingly got shafted for the second game in a row. I'm not done with Harding's personal quest, but I've liked what we got so far. I haven't finished the game yet. So, I don't know what the state of the Crossroads and Eluivans are after the ending. I'm like 70% ish complete.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
24,176
smilesja
14,588
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Nov 28, 2024 0:38:45 GMT
Just leaving this here before the U.S Thanksgiving tomorrow, it's going to be tough for Veilguard enjoyers online as people won't like you for simply liking a game. I know I've been called all sorts of names lol. Just keep the Hype Train alive because this game has been an excellent experience filled with beautiful environments, great characters, exciting combat. Just block out the noise and just enjoy the game! The Hype Train has no brakes!
|
|
inherit
1033
0
37,078
colfoley
19,175
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Nov 28, 2024 1:14:58 GMT
I keep forgetting so in lieu of a lot of other things...well two chapters behind on my story and posting it here. So here we are: www.fanfiction.net/s/14395351/8/Rise-of-RookAlso found this awesome rendition of the Dread Wolf theme.
|
|
Andraste_Reborn
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,867 Likes: 8,157
inherit
469
0
8,157
Andraste_Reborn
1,867
August 2016
andrastereborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 28, 2024 1:15:43 GMT
It's really nice to feel satisfied enough with The Veilguard that I just don't have to worry about what anyone else thinks of it. After Dragon Age 2 I was anxious that the game's negative reception meant that we'd never get another entry in the series, but now? I've got a fun new game to play and an end to arc that started in Origins. I'd love another Dragon Age game, of course, but if this is the end of the road I'm OK with that. So whether it's a commercial success or not and whatever loud people on the internet think of it: Your opinion man #Lebowski #meme #emoji #quote by Seaside-Mike, on Flickr
|
|
inherit
1033
0
37,078
colfoley
19,175
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Nov 28, 2024 1:19:09 GMT
Does hurt to see fans of the series rag on it to but ultimatley that is where I want my headspace to be and think I am pretty successful in that, I just love debating too much.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
24,176
smilesja
14,588
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Nov 28, 2024 2:49:21 GMT
It's really nice to feel satisfied enough with The Veilguard that I just don't have to worry about what anyone else thinks of it. After Dragon Age 2 I was anxious that the game's negative reception meant that we'd never get another entry in the series, but now? I've got a fun new game to play and an end to arc that started in Origins. I'd love another Dragon Age game, of course, but if this is the end of the road I'm OK with that. So whether it's a commercial success or not and whatever loud people on the internet think of it: Your opinion man #Lebowski #meme #emoji #quote by Seaside-Mike, on Flickr Yeah the game is great and people shouldn’t let others influence their opinion. Happy Thanksgiving to all Veilguard fans who celebrate it! Whatever happens to BioWare or Dragon Age, I’m just happy to see a lot of loose ends being tied!
|
|