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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2020 23:12:55 GMT
I was thinking that Anthem was the only reason for the 10ish year wait for DA4 & that we would be back to a more frequent release schedule for the series after DA4’s release. But with Mass Effect 5 & the Anthem reboot penciled in as the next 2 titles on Bioware’s agenda, it has made me concerned that the near decade long wait for a DA game might become the norm from here on out.
With the closure of Bioware Montreal, the Edmonton team will be back juggling 2 to 3 ip. Hopefully, the Austin studio will be the main team for the Anthem reboot, allowing Edmonton to focus on their 2 flagship series.
Even if this is the case, the increasing typical triple A development time to around 4 years on average still means us fans only get 2 DA games a decade.
In my ideal world we would get a DA game every 3 years after DA4’s release as I believe it is enough time to make a Triple A narrative based RPG. A dev cycle this length means Bioware probably wouldn’t pursue any crazy ideas like procedurally generated maps or having 10 sandboxes that are way too large just to pad the game. They would go back to a focused experience for their narrative & level design.
What I expect however is that DA4’s “live service” will basically mean that we get several more DLC’s/ expansions than the previous games, so that DA4 will be the Dragon Age game we play from 2023/2024 into sometime in 2030.
What about you guys? What is your ideal & your realistic hopes for the release schedule for the future of the franchise?
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Oct 11, 2020 0:43:43 GMT
I don't think there is currently any way to predict if we'll get DA5 in 2025 or 2030. Hell, I don't think there's any way to predict if we'll get it at all! We don't have a crystal ball to know how DA4 will do or what BioWare's plans will be by the time it comes out.
At the moment I am just hoping that DA4 does not end on the same level of cliffhanger that DAI concluded on so the wait is a bit easier next time.
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Post by Adia on Oct 11, 2020 9:42:39 GMT
I don't care how long it takes them, as long as we get good games. One thing for sure though - Bioware needs to stop experimenting and start actually producing. You can't experiment for 4 years and only produce in just 1 year. If the duration of your production is so short - even if you found the right formula when experimenting, you don't have enough time to implement it properly.
Bioware still calling themselves experimental, especially the DA4 team, which has been referred to as a "pirate ship" makes it seem like they haven't learn from their past mistakes. I don't have confidence in a good DA4 if the release date is in 2022, considering how early they are in development. 2023 at the very least, but even then oddly enough (after 9 years) seems to soon.
The thing about your ideal world, is it's not actually unrealistic. Sequels are usually far easier to make - you already have the tools, the design and the story, so a lot of the foundation is already there and you can build off of that. The problem begins when you start to experiment (diverge), you change engines or you don't have a clear vision.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 11, 2020 10:05:43 GMT
I don't think we are ever going to get back to the cycle of games we had with the MET or DAO to DAI. I'm also waiting to see exactly what the "live service" means in reality.
To my mind, the set up with DAI was tailor made for continued "live service" DLC releases, as happened with JoH and the Descent. The Inquisition could have gone on indefinitely doing quests like that, solving old mysteries but as a self-contained story. Then release Trespasser just before the next full game to lead us into it. However, that didn't happen and I find it hard to see them doing anything similar in the future, unless by "live service" they are talking about multi-player modules, as they also had with DAI, which would finish it for me as I don't do multi-player.
So at present I'm just hoping for a first rate single player game with a completed story by the end of it, at least so far as the Solas plot line is concerned, and no obvious cliff hanger that keeps me dangling for another 7 years. At present I'm hoping for a release date in 2022 but I'm not holding my breath on it.
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Post by phoray on Oct 11, 2020 22:53:22 GMT
Ideally they will release next Fall and then release every 2 years after that to ensure a more continuous story ala Ubisoft but less frequently.
Also, kill anyone that wants to keep having cliff hangers.
Realistically, think DA4 will release next year but it will probably fail to live up to expectations and the Franchise will die.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 12, 2020 1:01:58 GMT
I think the general idea is we might have... well I still have no real idea how Anthem fits into this anymore but it should conceivably be possible for them to alternative between Mass Effect and Dragon Age every other year. Granted this is assuming there will be another ME game. Alterntatively as I mentioned with live service DA 4 might be it, but they just might keep on supporting the game until BioWare/ EA decides its not economically viable to do anymore or until they have a good cut off for the story...preferably both. But yeah I mean it does seem like it takes about 3 years to develop a game (remember Anthem came out in 2019) beginning to end end the big question is can they ever grow big enough or competent enough to juggle two projects at once while also keeping in mind LS expansions? Time will tell.
Also DAI did end on a complete story. Tresspasser wasn't a cliff hanger it was a tease.
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Post by phoray on Oct 12, 2020 1:05:20 GMT
Also DAI did end on a complete story. Tresspasser wasn't a cliff hanger it was a tease.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 12, 2020 1:07:40 GMT
Also DAI did end on a complete story. Tresspasser wasn't a cliff hanger it was a tease. *slams foot down on ground, puts hand on hips, and pouts* I can do whatever I want! ( )
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 12, 2020 1:17:56 GMT
Also DAI did end on a complete story. Tresspasser wasn't a cliff hanger it was a tease.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Oct 12, 2020 2:32:02 GMT
Also DAI did end on a complete story. Tresspasser wasn't a cliff hanger it was a tease. Smells like it.
Realistic expectation: there will be bullshit in Dragon Age 4.
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Post by biggydx on Oct 12, 2020 3:46:36 GMT
Can't remember if it was David Gaider or Mike Laidlaw who brought this up, but one of them talked about the troubles of having the DLC's be the point to which teases for the next game are revealed. On one hand, you have the potential of generating hype and speculation about what's to come, but on the flip-side, you also make it so that players don't truly get the REAL story unless they buy said DLC.
While I can see DA4 ending various plotlines (such as the one with Solas), I also wouldnt be shocked if it created new ones; maybe even in DLC.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 12, 2020 3:57:41 GMT
Can't remember if it was David Gaider or Mike Laidlaw who brought this up, but one of them talked about the troubles of having the DLC's be the point to which teases for the next game are revealed. On one hand, you have the potential of generating hype and speculation about what's to come, but on the flip-side, you also make it so that players don't truly get the REAL story unless they buy said DLC. While I can see DA4 ending various plotlines (such as the one with Solas), I also wouldnt be shocked if it created new ones; maybe even in DLC. I mean I just never seen it as much of an issue? I mean if you love the setting enough to buy the DLC you are, of course, going to buy the DLC and want more adventures in your setting...but by and large you aren't missing out at the end of the day. Witch Hunt (Origins tease for 2 in some ways) was just a 'fun' little side adventure which hinted at a few developing plot lines. We met Corypheus in Legacy but it wasn't like the Inquisitor (Or Hawke for that matter) lost anything by the player not playing it, everything was explained to the Inquisitor and Corypheus was their threat to deal with. Legacy just ended up being a fun little tease. Same thing with Tresspasser. Whilst Solas and his plan to end the world for the next game is certainly an omnipresent threat (assuming the plot does go in that direction) when we get our grubby little hands on DA 4...that will be the threat. It will have to be explaiend again anyways for the benefit of new players and potentially a new protagonist. Whilst you lose out on a lot of fun lore and a great story by not playing Tresspasser the real story for Inquisition was...the base game. The game ended, story/ plot wise, with the defeat of Corypheus.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Oct 12, 2020 4:02:14 GMT
Can't remember if it was David Gaider or Mike Laidlaw who brought this up, but one of them talked about the troubles of having the DLC's be the point to which teases for the next game are revealed. On one hand, you have the potential of generating hype and speculation about what's to come, but on the flip-side, you also make it so that players don't truly get the REAL story unless they buy said DLC. While I can see DA4 ending various plotlines (such as the one with Solas), I also wouldnt be shocked if it created new ones; maybe even in DLC. They already have too much as it is, and quite honestly, I'm hoping that they'll get rid of as many as they possibly can because they have a lot. It's generally best not to go all Game of Thrones and make your story as clunky as possible. Hell, A Song of Ice and Fire is even worse in this regard than the show that's based off of it. I really hope that they don't plan on creating more plotlines. At least, by DA5 (if they ever get to that point, which I think they will) they should have everything from DA1 and DA2, at the very least, wrapped up. So here's hoping that that's the case.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 12, 2020 4:08:47 GMT
Can't remember if it was David Gaider or Mike Laidlaw who brought this up, but one of them talked about the troubles of having the DLC's be the point to which teases for the next game are revealed. On one hand, you have the potential of generating hype and speculation about what's to come, but on the flip-side, you also make it so that players don't truly get the REAL story unless they buy said DLC. While I can see DA4 ending various plotlines (such as the one with Solas), I also wouldnt be shocked if it created new ones; maybe even in DLC. They already have too much as it is, and quite honestly, I'm hoping that they'll get rid of as many as they possibly can because they have a lot. It's generally best not to go all Game of Thrones and make your story as clunky as possible. Hell, A Song of Ice and Fire is even worse in this regard than the show that's based off of it. I really hope that they don't plan on creating more plotlines. At least, by DA5 (if they ever get to that point, which I think they will) they should have everything from DA1 and DA2, at the very least, wrapped up. So here's hoping that that's the case. I do remember hearing once that they plan out 'two games in advance' when making their games so there is that, though their plans do tend to go to shit it seems and they constantly have to do 'audibles'. And really its always been kind of a pet theory of mine too that DA 2 had to reprsent a 'rebooting' of the franchise in a way because...it really didn't feel like a sequel to Origins but a start of a new series in a lot of ways, ie it started what was kind of intended to be a trilogy if the above comments are to be believed. So I think a lot of what was started in DA 2 will be wrapped up in 4. Though they will always be planning out little nuggets of information to expand into future games should they decide to make them...so any elements introduced in DA I (namely the Executors) could be a big part of the plot for 5. Or they could make some grand 200 hour epic and just deal with ALL of this now. Edit: Of course if DA was going to have a five game plan starting with Dragon Age 2 as well, IE more Babylon 5 then Star Wars, then we'll get DA games up to DA 6 in...*does mental math in head for worse case scenario...* 2034?
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 12, 2020 4:45:45 GMT
Don't overthink Anthem. As you said its now being worked on at the BioWare Austin studio so any work on the game will be independent of BioWare Edmonton just like when BioWare Austin was given The Old Republic, after the game moved to Austin BioWare Edmonton did nothing with it again.
With Dragon Age "4" I am expecting a 2022/2023 release and after that is too far into the future for any BioWare product. What BioWare adds or doesn't add really seems to depend on what the online community is demanding of them instead of what the studio thinks is good for their games. So even if you think its a bad idea, if enough people are demanding that BioWare do something I wouldn't be surprised if they make a drastic change to implement it or that major changes happen to the games based on that feedback. The problem BioWare Edmonton has had since they were purchased by EA is that they seem to fall into the category of having "eyes bigger then their stomachs" so they have massive elaborate plans and have to rush and make massive cuts to the game to get it to ship on time. So I would hope the next games are going to be scaled back a little so they don't have to make such drastic changes from their initial vision.
With "live service" nobody really knows what it means, BioWare has said that every Dragon Age game (and all but Mass Effect 1 in that IP) will have qualified as a "live service" game and their vision of what "live service" means is that its content that can be added or changed to the game without having to download the new content. So don't have the hopes of more DLC or other content like that, it would be probably multiplayer weekends or having rotating missions for a mission table type of content where its just game variables being rotated.
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Post by telanadas on Oct 12, 2020 5:04:02 GMT
I hate to say it but I think DA4 will be a make or break game for Bioware...I don't even mind the cliffhangers or hanging plot threads. Actually, that's kind of what makes the game interesting and keeps people invested. I'm just worried about their 'live service' and if that will impede on the enjoyability aspect of the game in any way. I would be much more optimistic if they were just upfront and honest about their intentions and say exactly what they mean, whether the online aspect is for saving the game (to do with the keep) or if it's to do with the actual story...
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Post by colfoley on Oct 12, 2020 5:06:47 GMT
I hate to say it but I think DA4 will be a make or break game for Bioware...I don't even mind the cliffhangers or hanging plot threads. Actually, that's kind of what makes the game interesting and keeps people invested. I'm just worried about their 'live service' and if that will impede on the enjoyability aspect of the game in any way. I would be much more optimistic if they were just upfront and honest about their intentions and say exactly what they mean, whether the online aspect is for saving the game (to do with the keep) or if it's to do with the actual story... I mean they did say already that the game was going to be just like your typical...Dragon Age game in terms of companions and SP in a blog post but as far as the speicifics they almost have to tell us once the marketing kicks in so...2021 we should know.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 12, 2020 11:05:11 GMT
Can't remember if it was David Gaider or Mike Laidlaw who brought this up, but one of them talked about the troubles of having the DLC's be the point to which teases for the next game are revealed. On one hand, you have the potential of generating hype and speculation about what's to come, but on the flip-side, you also make it so that players don't truly get the REAL story unless they buy said DLC. While I can see DA4 ending various plotlines (such as the one with Solas), I also wouldnt be shocked if it created new ones; maybe even in DLC. I mean I just never seen it as much of an issue? I mean if you love the setting enough to buy the DLC you are, of course, going to buy the DLC and want more adventures in your setting...but by and large you aren't missing out at the end of the day. Witch Hunt (Origins tease for 2 in some ways) was just a 'fun' little side adventure which hinted at a few developing plot lines. We met Corypheus in Legacy but it wasn't like the Inquisitor (Or Hawke for that matter) lost anything by the player not playing it, everything was explained to the Inquisitor and Corypheus was their threat to deal with. Legacy just ended up being a fun little tease. Same thing with Tresspasser. Whilst Solas and his plan to end the world for the next game is certainly an omnipresent threat (assuming the plot does go in that direction) when we get our grubby little hands on DA 4...that will be the threat. It will have to be explaiend again anyways for the benefit of new players and potentially a new protagonist. Whilst you lose out on a lot of fun lore and a great story by not playing Tresspasser the real story for Inquisition was...the base game. The game ended, story/ plot wise, with the defeat of Corypheus. ME3 never explained what happened between it and the previous title but made a lot of remarks and references. The most glaring thing was right at the start when it was never explained why Shepard was held in custody. You had to piece it together that he somehow was involved in some ops in a Batarian system.
While DAI did quite OK with the overall world state narration (might be that DA2 doesn't have much effect on the world state - never finished it) it ended with a fricken cliffhanger and not playing DLC will likely just end you up clueless in DA4 like it was in ME2-ME3 the case.
Furthermore, it's now 3 games and I don't feel the Veil or wossname and the whole thing with Archdemons and the Darkspawn have been satisfyingly explained. I rather feel they lost the plot in favour of serialising the franchise trying to perpetuate what maybe doesn't have enough material to be perpetuated on.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Oct 12, 2020 13:09:58 GMT
I call mid-late 2023, the last game for Bioware before closure. At least until then I have BG3 to keep me company.
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Post by NUM13ER on Oct 12, 2020 14:31:59 GMT
I actually can't believe it's been 10 years and they wasted all that time and talent just to produce something as lacklustre as Anthem. Who knows if it'll ever really get back on track. We should have had two sequels by now. Instead it might be years before we even see DA4.
And if it falls flat, that's the end of Dragon Age as well. If not BioWare as a whole by then.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 12, 2020 15:01:48 GMT
Realistically, think DA4 will release next year but it will probably fail to live up to expectations and the Franchise will die. I expect the next DA game will have replay value like the previous da games and the ME trilogy. That is the #1 reason why I like those games. I get my $60 worth and then some. It's also the reason why I have so many playthroughs. As far as when the next da game releases and future da games? If the rumors of an ME trilogy remaster are true, and it's released in 2021, I would say the next da game might release late 2022. If a remaster doesn't happen, then I guess the next da game would release late 2021. For future da games, I would say 2030/31 and beyond.
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Post by Captain Obvious on Oct 12, 2020 15:22:46 GMT
Realistically, think DA4 will release next year but it will probably fail to live up to expectations and the Franchise will die. I expect the next DA game will have replay value like the previous da games and the ME trilogy. That is the #1 reason why I like those games. I get my $60 worth and then some. It's also the reason why I have so many playthroughs. As far as when the next da game releases and future da games? If the rumors of an ME trilogy remaster are true, and it's released in 2021, I would say the next da game might release late 2022. If a remaster doesn't happen, then I guess the next da game would release late 2021. For future da games, I would say 2030/31 and beyond.
It will be released in 2022 due to complications done by the Covid-19 virus. SO I can see it being pushed back. 2022/2023 is likely, in my book.
And yes, DA games are good because of the replay value. Speaking of which, I have yet to play the ME games...
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Post by wickedcool on Oct 16, 2020 3:38:57 GMT
I think da4 will be the last da for good
I believe sales will be good and reviews solid but the competition will be stronger
Say it comes out in 3 years. That’s 3 more years where we are looking at games costing 70+. There’s no sign that income for most will match the cost increase
If it goes up against Witcher 4, elder scrolls it gets wiped out on name recognition. BioWare has a great fan base but it’s dwarfed by those and there’s going to be other players (I fully expect the dungeons and dragons franchise to have something to rival da. I’m seeing it more mainstream than ever before or something unexpected (Harry Potter, stranger things, game of thrones etc)
Do we really think ea will keep BioWare going another 7+ years after da4. I got the impression After the ea showcase that BioWare is just another toy and may not be as highly regarded by ea as we think
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Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 18, 2020 3:07:34 GMT
*Ideally* it would have come out 3-4 years ago.
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Post by biggydx on Oct 18, 2020 4:18:17 GMT
Anthem, so far as I can tell, will continue to be solely in the hands of BioWare Austins at this point. That leaves the Edmonton studio working on the other big name titles (primarily Mass Effect and Dragon Age). We've already gotten some speculation from both Jason Schreier, and even one of Anthems producers (I can't remember his name, though I think it started with Mike), that BioWare has a few people prototyping the next Mass Effect game. So my guess would be that they'll probably oscillate between both franchises, with maybe 5-6 years in between each title.
As I've said before, I think these types of games are slowly moving towards being generational titles, rather than yearly/bi-yearly titles akin to Assassins Creed or CoD. Considering that it's mostly the Edmonton studio pulling the weight, this is probably a realistic expectation at this point.
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