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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 23:05:14 GMT
Iakus , I quibble over nothing … I objected to the original post, which posited that PTSD was a cause of heavily invested fans' reaction to the ending. I built a strawman using that assertion, rejected that strawman and offered no other mental illness as an explanation. Now you seem to be accepting there was indeed a post on PTSD prior to my original post. I thought that was something not mentioned a full six pages back from my post. Curiouser and curiouser. As far as tagging you … stop with your gaslighting, dissembling and obfuscations and I'll have nothing to tag. You only objected the specific term "PTSD". The only mistake I made is not calling out paulomedi as well. But I've long since stopped paying attention to him. And let me put this in as nice a way as possible: tag me again I start reporting you for harassment. I know you're buddies with the mods, but there need to be SOME standards here. Oh my gosh … you engaged me, I exposed your deceptions and now, you want me to go away. Dude, that is just lame.
As far as only objecting to PTSD … that was the entire point of my original post. I posited no other mental health issue, I built a strawman explicitly about PTSD and explicitly rejected it.
I'm still betting you didn't read my entire post before you posted your take.
Later, you realized your mistake makes you look silly, so now, you evade, you deflect, you obfuscate and try to rewrite history.
Here's a pro tip … if you don't want someone to engage you, then don't engage them first. QED.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 0:21:57 GMT
I would say to you both "just kiss already!" But I don't know how much bad blood exists between you two.
And Iakus stopped paying attention to me.
Notice me senpai...
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 23, 2021 0:26:26 GMT
If it is that good, how come it killed the franchise? Yes it killed the franchise that is why....
-Checks notes-
- Mass Effect Andromeda exists
- Mass Effect 5 is in production
Clearly the franchise has been killed and never existed since Mass Effect 3 was released. a 5 year period between 3 and Andromeda isn't all that surprising given BioWare is a mid size studio.
- Mass Effect 3- 2012
- Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heros- canceled 2013
- Command and Conquer: Generals 2- canceled 2013
- Dragon Age: Inquisition- 2014
- Shadow Realms- canceled 2015
- Mass Effect Andromeda- 2017
- Anthem- 2019
- Dragon Age 4- TBA
- Mass Effect 5- TBA
That is debatable. I've found that people like to hypocritically scream some variation of "THAT IS JUST HEAD CANON!" when you explain it which is contradicted by their own personal head canon existing. It is a wonderfully blatant and amusing attempt at deflecting and avoiding having to address someone's argument when it might just prove the person wrong. Radec is a great example of this with the whole "When fire burns is it at war? Is it in conflict? Or is it simply doing what it was created to do? We are no different."
Because I like the ending. Because I find the contradictory logic, the sheer ability to selectively give weight to details based on their own personal views, the sheer lack of imagination and the some times pathetic attempt to validate their opinions and arguments by comparing it to how many other people agree with them simply fascinating in how people can come to these conclusions. And the only way to understand such vastly different opinions is to have discussions. To break down their arguments and logic and see how they respond to these counter arguments.
And of the (ultimately) infinitesimal number of people who I have talked to out of the millions of players. I've noticed trends that start to develop. Trends that like if people consistently applied some of their complaints about ME3 to the entire trilogy they wouldn't have even picked up the 2nd game let alone the 3rd game. What I can only see as deliberately picking the most idiotic reasons to fill in the blanks of anything not specifically spelled out simply so they can complain about how stupid it is.
And largest of all the fact Mass Effect 2 is generally considered by those same people who complain about ME3 as the best game in the trilogy. Even though the narrative doesn't make any sense and does nothing to advance the plot outside of a single DLC. Along with the whole suicide mission aspect which can result in characters dying which will often have those same people complain about how the ME2 characters get nothing but cameos in ME3. Which is a direct result of the fact they can die and they need to be easily written out of the plot.
ME2 is the only game in the trilogy that literally render's it's self redundant. As had Harbinger started the Reapers heading to the galaxy as soon as they confirmed Sovereign ailed and the Collectors attacked the Normandy they would have arrived at the Alpha Relay before Cerberus could even bring Shepard back. Wrapped right into the Citadel and taken it over by over whelming force and then continued on as normal. Seriously the moment you realize ME2 is so fucked up that it literally renders it self as pointless ME3 literally can not ever fuck up as badly as that. Yet people will regularly excuse this new tier of stupidity while not excusing any stupidity in ME3 and claim that ME2 is a superior game.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 23, 2021 0:28:53 GMT
Just give it up, already.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 23, 2021 0:32:34 GMT
Because I like the ending.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 23, 2021 0:38:50 GMT
Just give it up, already. Why? Because you opened your mouth and put your foot so far down it that you are technically standing on one leg when you sit down? There is literally a game already developed and a new game in development and you tried to claim that ME3 killed the franchise. Something so easily disproved that I actually can't believe you tried to pull that card out.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 23, 2021 0:42:27 GMT
Just give it up, already. Why? Because you opened your mouth and put your foot so far down it that you are technically standing on one leg when you sit down? There is literally a game already developed and a new game in development and you tried to claim that ME3 killed the franchise. Something so easily disproved that I actually can't believe you tried to pull that card out. No. Because you bore me. Go shout at a wall.
Here's a hint: the reason why nobody defends the endins, is because they are indefensible, not because they were some sort of high art that nobody understood. As much as you "artistically" appreciate them, they're rubbish.
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Post by Blast Processor on Feb 23, 2021 2:05:51 GMT
Remember when we used to talk about Miranda's butt...
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Post by regack on Feb 23, 2021 2:17:46 GMT
Remember when we used to talk about Miranda's butt... There's always Quarian Jiggly Bum Bum... or... not... since there's no MP
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Post by clips7 on Feb 23, 2021 2:26:31 GMT
Remember when we used to talk about Miranda's butt... lol...... ...Are you on PS3?...i think i might have played with you a few times...your name looks familiar.....
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Post by Blast Processor on Feb 23, 2021 3:08:05 GMT
Remember when we used to talk about Miranda's butt... lol...... ...Are you on PS3?...i think i might have played with you a few times...your name looks familiar..... Nah. I was an XBOX 360 guy.
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Post by aglomeracja on Feb 23, 2021 9:17:32 GMT
lol
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 23, 2021 13:51:34 GMT
Why? Because you opened your mouth and put your foot so far down it that you are technically standing on one leg when you sit down? There is literally a game already developed and a new game in development and you tried to claim that ME3 killed the franchise. Something so easily disproved that I actually can't believe you tried to pull that card out. No. Because you bore me. Go shout at a wall.
Here's a hint: the reason why nobody defends the endins, is because they are indefensible, not because they were some sort of high art that nobody understood. As much as you "artistically" appreciate them, they're rubbish.
I thought I was shouting at a wall?
So because you were bored you made the completely and blatantly disingenuous statement that ME3 killed the franchise even though Andromeda exists and there is an untitled mass effect game in production. On top of the general positive reaction to the legendary edition.
No one defend the ending because honestly trying to talk to people who say the ending is bad is like trying to shout at a wall. So most don't waste their time. I however am just a bull headed and stubborn as they are. So we find out what happens when an immovable object (you) meets and unstoppable force (me) and the result is you say something really stupid while trying to validate it with boredom.
It isn't artistically although any developer that tries to do something that isn't a main stream cliche "and they lived happily ever after" does get bonus points from me. It is because a trend I've noticed is people are unable to look at it from any other perspective but their own. And their own perspective is this really weird mix of in universe and meta game reasoning. Were they use video game logic to argue one point and then stick to a strictly in game reasoning to complain about another part.
Meta gaming is defined by me as the knowledge of the person sitting at home playing the game. Were they know it is a video game and will use video game logic.
In universe is defined by me as the knowledge of the character(s) that exist in the video game and have no knowledge that it is a video game.
Hence why people will use 1 of 3 possible endings were you make a truce with Geth and Quarians to fight the Reapers using meta gaming logic. The game tells them that they are getting along so they use the meta knowledge that this is a video game to extend that getting along as the final state of these two factions. When the Catalyst shows up later and explicitly states that such peaceful states never last the long term they do not equally apply the meta gaming logic that the game is now telling me that such peaceful state is no permanent. They try to use in universe reasoning to support their meta gaming logic that the Geth and Quarians are now best buddies forever. Even though the Krogan Rebellions exist as a shining example of peace during wars against mutual enemies doesn't necessarily equate to long term peace once the enemy is gone and there is no uniting force.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Feb 23, 2021 15:22:14 GMT
Soooo... anything else new? No new pics released? No new tidbit about the gameplay of ME1?
And most importantly, still no shirtless Garrus?
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Post by mrfixit on Feb 23, 2021 16:16:36 GMT
Here's a hint: the reason why nobody defends the endins, is because they are indefensible, not because they were some sort of high art that nobody understood. Here, I like the endings too. Whatever shall we do now?
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Feb 23, 2021 18:44:17 GMT
Soooo... anything else new? No new pics released? No new tidbit about the gameplay of ME1? And most importantly, still no shirtless Garrus? not that I know of
and nope...sorry, no shirtless Garrus, that'd require a new scene and there's not going to be any new scenes...sadly I mean if there was going to be new content...I'd have asked they put back some of the cut content *cough* save Ashley + Kaidan on Virmire for example *cough*
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 18:55:03 GMT
Soooo... anything else new? No new pics released? No new tidbit about the gameplay of ME1? And most importantly, still no shirtless Garrus? It'll be on the DLC, with unmasked quarians!
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 23, 2021 19:10:33 GMT
I thought I was shouting at a wall?
So because you were bored you made the completely and blatantly disingenuous statement that ME3 killed the franchise even though Andromeda exists and there is an untitled mass effect game in production. On top of the general positive reaction to the legendary edition.
No one defend the ending because honestly trying to talk to people who say the ending is bad is like trying to shout at a wall. So most don't waste their time. I however am just a bull headed and stubborn as they are. So we find out what happens when an immovable object (you) meets and unstoppable force (me) and the result is you say something really stupid while trying to validate it with boredom.
It isn't artistically although any developer that tries to do something that isn't a main stream cliche "and they lived happily ever after" does get bonus points from me. It is because a trend I've noticed is people are unable to look at it from any other perspective but their own. And their own perspective is this really weird mix of in universe and meta game reasoning. Were they use video game logic to argue one point and then stick to a strictly in game reasoning to complain about another part.
Meta gaming is defined by me as the knowledge of the person sitting at home playing the game. Were they know it is a video game and will use video game logic.
In universe is defined by me as the knowledge of the character(s) that exist in the video game and have no knowledge that it is a video game.
Hence why people will use 1 of 3 possible endings were you make a truce with Geth and Quarians to fight the Reapers using meta gaming logic. The game tells them that they are getting along so they use the meta knowledge that this is a video game to extend that getting along as the final state of these two factions. When the Catalyst shows up later and explicitly states that such peaceful states never last the long term they do not equally apply the meta gaming logic that the game is now telling me that such peaceful state is no permanent. They try to use in universe reasoning to support their meta gaming logic that the Geth and Quarians are now best buddies forever. Even though the Krogan Rebellions exist as a shining example of peace during wars against mutual enemies doesn't necessarily equate to long term peace once the enemy is gone and there is no uniting force.
Uhuh. Yeah. I'm not reading any of that.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 23, 2021 19:13:52 GMT
Here, I like the endings too. Whatever shall we do now? I never said you can't like them. You can like something and still think it's bad. And you can like it, think it's good, when it's actually bad and refuse to believe it can possibly be bad and write a wall of text trying to defend an opinion that can be shot down because it is paper thin and has been broken down a million times by now. Regardless of what people believe was feasible for ME3 or not, it clearly was not enough.
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Post by Sharable Horizon on Feb 23, 2021 20:00:51 GMT
No. Because you bore me. Go shout at a wall.
Here's a hint: the reason why nobody defends the endins, is because they are indefensible, not because they were some sort of high art that nobody understood. As much as you "artistically" appreciate them, they're rubbish.
No one defend the ending because honestly trying to talk to people who say the ending is bad is like trying to shout at a wall. So most don't waste their time. I however am just a bull headed and stubborn as they are. So we find out what happens when an immovable object (you) meets and unstoppable force (me) and the result is you say something really stupid while trying to validate it with boredom. Nailed it!
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Post by mousestalker on Feb 23, 2021 20:31:15 GMT
Kindly refrain from personal attacks and insults.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2021 21:16:11 GMT
[/quote] So just like Star Wars. There are people who have seen the movies and don't know anything beyond that. People who have seen the movies and TV shows and people who memorized the extended lore of every planet before Disney nuked it and started building their own extended lore. Last I checked the new trilogy's very mixed reviews didn't stop The Mandalorian from being a massive hit.
SW didnt took a "severe" hit as ME did in its infancy (original trilogy).
Vanilla ME2 has little body horror until the scene you mentioned. Overlord is a DLC, and Arrival was the last DLC, made way into ME3 production. ME3 is body horror since the beggining. ME2 there's a sense of overcoming impossible odds (you are ressurrected, you survive a suicide mission), much like ME1. In ME2, you have more direct agency in what happens, like in ME1. In ME3, since the beggining you are told its a losing war, and all is bet in the Crucible, something you don't have direct agency. So, I'll have to partially disagree on this one.
You are right, it doesn't. Again, it's not mental illness. It can exarcebate it, but on itself, it's a natural brain process. That's why you and sirpetrakus (and many others) can debate this until the heat death of the universe, and you will get nowhere. It's not just an intellectual debate. It's a debate on why this game gave some people a visceral reaction of disgust and abhor on its ending, and some people it didn't. Then the intellect takes over and try to rationalize each position to oblivion. ME2 is hot garbage from an intellectual standpoint, I agree. But it doesn't disgust people to their core, as ME3 does. Regarding SW, I'll have to believe in you on that.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 23, 2021 21:25:01 GMT
I kind of hope they fix the bad camera angles and dissapearing companion thing.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 24, 2021 1:02:45 GMT
Return of the Jedi wasn't exactly well received compared to Empire Strikes Back. And the extended universe quickly became a very tangled quagmire with a lot of really stupid stuff and only a few really good bits.
So Praetorians and Scions simply didn't exist in your ME2 game? Praetorian's mouths are literally filled with human skulls and the Scions 3 husks fused together with a massive bulging blue sack that extends out of their side with an entire arm converted into a weapon.
You have so little agency in ME2 that the game literally auto triggers story missions. And the story is so minimum at best that it hardly exists. Particularly compared to the first and 3rd game were the main story take up the bulk of your time. Total main story time in ME2 is maybe 15% of the game at best.
Based on your argument yes. There will always be people who obsess a bit to much over fictional content but trying to base all your long term decisions off this minority is silly. Cognitive dissonance isn't technically a mental illness but it certainly gets close to it when it is apparently that strong that BioWare couldn't hire good writers to make decent stories.
Yea outside of this forum I've found people generally like ME3 even if they don't like the ending. So trying to claim the "bad" writing in ME3 drives people away seems to be entirely limited to this website. As personal experience else where says people like the story and like the writing. At least up to the ending.
And yet this expand did happen. Bad writing is bad writing and it will turn off people no matter how old the franchise is.
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Post by Sharable Horizon on Feb 24, 2021 4:30:53 GMT
I kind of hope they fix the bad camera angles and dissapearing companion thing. I kinda just want my beloved Mattock in every cutscene my Shep is in, rather than le stock Avenger! BROSHEP DESERVES HIS ONE TRUE LOVE DAMMIT!
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