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Post by The Elder King on May 11, 2021 6:39:14 GMT
The problem I have with Synthesis (on top of the overall problems with the last segment of the game), is that, personally, it feels…dumb, in the way they achieve the merging. At least with Control and Destroy, what happens makes sort of sense; Destroy is auto-explication be, and Control basically switches an old AI with a new one, in control of the Reapers. Synthesis affecting organics and synthetics, making them a mix of the two is…weird.
It’s not really about which endings is best (arguably, Synthesis is on par with Control with the Reapers helping rebuilding the galaxy, without an AI in charge of them, and theorically no divergence between them and the other races in the galaxy), or the philosophy behind the choices, but really on how the whole result happens. It just doesn’t make sense to me.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on May 11, 2021 7:15:11 GMT
Thats why its better to end in ME1 and continue to MEA For me personally I dont think I want to play ME2 terminator baby or ME3 Asari horror at end of the games anymore. I'll play most of them but leave the endings of both to past. The games (2 and 3) feel a bit like side missions of ME1 to me nowadays.
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Post by The Elder King on May 11, 2021 7:46:03 GMT
Thats why its better to end in ME1 and continue to MEA For me personally I dont think I want to play ME2 terminator baby or ME3 Asari horror at end of the games anymore. I'll play most of them but leave the endings of both to past. The games (2 and 3) feel a bit like side missions of ME1 to me nowadays. It’s a fair approach. I don’t hate or dislike Andromeda as others in the forum, but personally, the highest points in those games aren’t comparable to the highest points of the OT. Perhaps the biggest problem I had with MEA is that it gives me a feel of deja-vu, a bit like (but not to that extent)The Force Awakens gave me a feel of deja-vu. It might’ve been different if they worked on the version of the game that was released more, and not for a lot of its development on the NMS-like that it was supposed to be, but that’s what I got. And there are many great moments in both ME2 and ME3 (the Genophage arc is the best arc of both OT and Andromeda to me) that aren’t personally worth skipping by focusing only on ME1. Which has its fair share of problems. I get why the endings could ruin the whole trilogy for a lot of people, but for me, the good and high moments beat the bad moments overall, and I am still attached to it.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on May 11, 2021 7:56:55 GMT
And there are many great moments in both ME2 and ME3 (the Genophage arc is the best arc of both OT and Andromeda to me) that aren’t personally worth skipping by focusing only on ME1. Which has its fair share of problems. I get why the endings could ruin the whole trilogy for a lot of people, but for me, the good and high moments beat the bad moments overall, and I am still attached to it. For me its not the ending OT, its the part just before ending, the stupid boss fights, especially in 2... no man, no more of that terminator baby plz. I dont much care for 2 but there are some nice parts, and in 3 when not glooming about reapers all the time / the constant combat. That actually reminds me; I hope we could have less combat and more different ways of solving things depending on different things done or not done before (yeah I'm playing Fallout 2 atm. ) - constant combat in 2 and 3 really wear me down nowadays.
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
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Post by helios969 on May 11, 2021 9:07:28 GMT
The problem I have with Synthesis (on top of the overall problems with the last segment of the game), is that, personally, it feels…dumb, in the way they achieve the merging. At least with Control and Destroy, what happens makes sort of sense; Destroy is auto-explication be, and Control basically switches an old AI with a new one, in control of the Reapers. Synthesis affecting organics and synthetics, making them a mix of the two is…weird. It’s not really about which endings is best (arguably, Synthesis is on par with Control with the Reapers helping rebuilding the galaxy, without an AI in charge of them, and theorically no divergence between them and the other races in the galaxy), or the philosophy behind the choices, but really on how the whole result happens. It just doesn’t make sense to me. I hate Synthesis mostly because of the way it is executed (never mind forcing it on every sentient)...well all the execution is poor, e.g. shooting a tube, grabbing control rods, jumping into the energy source...none of it makes any kind of sense. But the synthesis presentation is ridiculous...the whole new DNA thing requiring Shep's molecular makeup and then giving everyone glowing circuitry was just plain dumb. If it was really rewriting organics at the DNA level there shouldn't have been any visual difference. Of course since synthetics don't have a DNA make up it wouldn't have even worked on them. It's not even plausible if you view ME wholly as a piece of fantasy. The science fiction writers forgot the science part of it. Besides the mission from the start was to destroy the Reapers regardless that some want to argue semantics and claim it was to stop them...but people read into things however they want.
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Post by The Elder King on May 11, 2021 9:21:49 GMT
The problem I have with Synthesis (on top of the overall problems with the last segment of the game), is that, personally, it feels…dumb, in the way they achieve the merging. At least with Control and Destroy, what happens makes sort of sense; Destroy is auto-explication be, and Control basically switches an old AI with a new one, in control of the Reapers. Synthesis affecting organics and synthetics, making them a mix of the two is…weird. It’s not really about which endings is best (arguably, Synthesis is on par with Control with the Reapers helping rebuilding the galaxy, without an AI in charge of them, and theorically no divergence between them and the other races in the galaxy), or the philosophy behind the choices, but really on how the whole result happens. It just doesn’t make sense to me. I hate Synthesis mostly because of the way it is executed (never mind forcing it on every sentient)...well all the execution is poor, e.g. shooting a tube, grabbing control rods, jumping into the energy source...none of it makes any kind of sense. But the synthesis presentation is ridiculous...the whole new DNA thing requiring Shep's molecular makeup and then giving everyone glowing circuitry was just plain dumb. If it was really rewriting organics at the DNA level there shouldn't have been any visual difference. Of course since synthetics don't have a DNA make up it wouldn't have even worked on them. It's not even plausible if you view ME wholly as a piece of fantasy. The science fiction writers forgot the science part of it. Besides the mission from the start was to destroy the Reapers regardless that some want to argue semantics and claim it was to stop them...but people read into things however they want. I don’t mind the fact that they introduced characters like TIM that want to control the Reapers. But the fact that they had to insert the destruction of all synthetic life forms in Destroy, after making (at least some of them) players interact and care with some, like EDI or Legion, is telling. They knew they had to add a huge con (for those that consider it as such) to Destroy, to make the other endings more viable.
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N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 11, 2021 11:00:46 GMT
Which ending is everyone going to pick in MELE? I'm still kind of split between Destroy & Synthesis. With Destroy, the ultimate goal is achieved. The Reapers are defeated. It's a huge victory, but not without sacrifice. I know a lot of people don't like Synthesis, but I'd like to think of it in a more philosophical way. The key word is evolution. You witness the birth of new life: the evolution of both organics & synthetics. Two merging into one, and Shepard sacrifices her/his life in the process to make this happen. For FemShep, she becomes like the "mother" of this new form of life and future. It's like something from Kubrick or Arthur C. Clarke. Deep sci-fi stuff. Depends o nthe Shep I'm playing tbh asI'v epicked al of them and likel ywill again. M yParagons tend t ogo with conrtol o rSynthesis my Renegades are the ones tha ttend to go destroy. Because my first Shep is likely to be Paragon it'll probably be Symthesis.
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Post by themikefest on May 11, 2021 11:39:04 GMT
I always have, and always will choose the red. The game gives me no reason to choose the green or blue.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 11, 2021 11:52:55 GMT
Dan Stapleton @danstapleton FYI, do not expect full reviews of Mass Effect Legendary Edition this week. EA's waiting on a big patch to send it out, so nobody's gotten copies yet.
Considering there's a lot of game there, it might take a while.
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Post by The Elder King on May 11, 2021 12:04:18 GMT
On Resetera, it appears one person got the review copy, although it might’ve been an isolated case, and he doesn’t know yet if he’d be able to post a review before release. I wonder if this is a good move or not. Not having a review before release could sound a bit suspicious, but I guess that the patch is going to fix a lot of bugs and glitches, so without it the reviews would be quite negative on that front.
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Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on May 11, 2021 12:22:28 GMT
Mass Effect Legendary LIARA Edition
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Post by Ascend on May 11, 2021 12:24:27 GMT
Besides the mission from the start was to destroy the Reapers regardless that some want to argue semantics and claim it was to stop them...but people read into things however they want. So... Perspectives should not change in light of new information? One of the reasons I cannot choose destroy is because the Leviathans are still there, and controlling the reapers gives a better line of defense against them. They will take over the galaxy without the reapers as a line of defense, and if it wasn't for Shepard reaching an agreement with the, Shepard would have died at the bottom of the ocean. And yes... The mission was indeed to stop the reapers, not destroy them. Those two things are not the same, just like stopping a phone call is not the same as destroying the phone, or god forbid, killing the caller. The way of stopping them was never specified. In fact, an even more accurate description would be to avoid getting destroyed by the reapers. Or another one; avoid being harvested by the reapers. Or... Surviving the reapers and achieving peace. There are multiple ways to skin a cat. Destroy is simply the most violent shallow way to do it. It is the renegade option for a reason. Destroy is generally the choice taken by players due to the hatred of the starchild. They want that thing eliminated. It's an emotional, impulsive and stubborn one, not a rational well-thought-out one. If I was BioWare, I would have made the destroy ending having a small post-story, where all organics are indeed wiped out by synthetics in the far future. I would love to see the faces of all the angry destroy fanatics.
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ruthlesskhan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by ruthlesskhan on May 11, 2021 12:26:07 GMT
I guess I never liked Destroy because it felt so generic to me. I never liked Mass Effect when it's presented on a generic level - "Hey, evil aliens are trying to destroy humanity! Time to kill some evil aliens!" Yawn. I hate that kind of cliched story.
Sure, Synthesis doesn't make sense, and sure, it does forcibly alter the DNA of every living creature against their consent... but it still feels like a lot more interesting and unique ending than "Kill evil dictator aliens!"
Even the Control ending was more unique and special. Too bad we could never find out what happens if we get a Reaper-Shepard.
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Post by The Elder King on May 11, 2021 12:45:32 GMT
I guess I never liked Destroy because it felt so generic to me. I never liked Mass Effect when it's presented on a generic level - "Hey, evil aliens are trying to destroy humanity! Time to kill some evil aliens!" Yawn. I hate that kind of cliched story. Sure, Synthesis doesn't make sense, and sure, it does forcibly alter the DNA of every living creature against their consent... but it still feels like a lot more interesting and unique ending than "Kill evil dictator aliens!" Even the Control ending was more unique and special. Too bad we could never find out what happens if we get a Reaper-Shepard. I’d take generic over illogical any time…if the former didn’t add the destruction of all synthetics. Besides, it’s not like a fusion of organics and synthetic is really that novel of an idea, and neither is controlling machines. I get the reasoning behind preferring the other two compared to Destroy, but it’s not really something I share when role playing. The fact that a choice is generic doesn’t affect my decision.
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Post by ruthlesskhan on May 11, 2021 13:03:11 GMT
I guess I never liked Destroy because it felt so generic to me. I never liked Mass Effect when it's presented on a generic level - "Hey, evil aliens are trying to destroy humanity! Time to kill some evil aliens!" Yawn. I hate that kind of cliched story. Sure, Synthesis doesn't make sense, and sure, it does forcibly alter the DNA of every living creature against their consent... but it still feels like a lot more interesting and unique ending than "Kill evil dictator aliens!" Even the Control ending was more unique and special. Too bad we could never find out what happens if we get a Reaper-Shepard. I’d take generic over illogical any time…if the former didn’t add the destruction of all synthetics. Besides, it’s not like a fusion of organics and synthetic is really that novel of an idea, and neither is controlling machines. I get the reasoning behind preferring the other two compared to Destroy, but it’s not really something I share when role playing. The fact that a choice is generic doesn’t affect my decision. Yeah, I get that. Roleplaying is always about character over story after all. And I agree that Synthesis isn't really that novel either... but I'll take what I can get. Better something that's remotely unique than something that's completely generic IMO. Frankly speaking though, I don't give a crap about any of the three endings to really feel that passionate and defend any of them. They're all kinda "okay" and don't really resonate a strong feeling in me. Sure, I picked Synthesis, but I wouldn't have any qualms picking the Blue and Red ending either. They might've added details to the tri-color ending in the Extended Cut, but it still feels kinda meh. I don't really care, unfortunately. The journey is still much more satisfying to me than the endings. The ending just feels like some writer was forced to end the story out of obligation, the kind of ending Chris Carter would be forced to come up with after suffering for nine seasons of X-Fillers.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2021 13:20:21 GMT
Eh, to each their own.
I dislike and have abandoned Sony now, for their exclusives. I am tired of this exclusivity stuff, and so there's my reason. Nobody has to agree with that.
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Pro vobis omne periculum.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by jrpN7 on May 11, 2021 13:23:20 GMT
Destroy is the one for me. It aligns with the soul of the game and Shepard's mission to end the Reapers.
Synthesis has the better music and the narration by EDI is fantastic. It does fill me with a sense of wonder- until I actually think about the consequences of synthesis and how undeniably disturbing it all is.
Control never appealed to me at all. Such a waste of an ending.
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Post by Radec on May 11, 2021 13:33:50 GMT
Ethics and science of it aside, Synthesis is bonkers and doesn't work as an ending to the story told for the previous 90 hours. It's like Mac played Deus Ex for the first time and thought it was really neat, then tried to insert the Helios ending into a Space Cthulu story where the only transhumans up to this point have been evil robot zombies.
I'd have been less taken out of the story if Revolver Ocelot showed up in place of the brat and started a 45 minute monologue about how the Reapers were actually the Patriots/La Le Lu Le Lo.
Control might have worked if ME3 hadn't derailed TIM into a crazy evil guy who tries to do it, fails at every turn and gets indoctrinated. Oh but you can do it now because....you're the player character and not the villain? Dumb. You can't tell an entire story with a theme and then invert it at the last second.
Destroy is the least dumb. Predictable, but it's at least thematically cogent and has been the actual goal of all characters in the narrative(other than the heel) since the beginning. Remove the brat and the tackred on robot holocaust penalty (obviously designed to make the other shitty endings more appealing, not by improving them but attempting to make this ending arbitrarily "worse") and it'd be fine
If you lack the talent to actually pull off a twist ending without twisting your story, themes and characters into a pretzel to try and justify it, you should stick to the KISS principle and accept your B+, rather than going off script, trying to be pretentious and getting an F.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on May 11, 2021 13:34:05 GMT
Guess we should get ready for a new wave of these memes:
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 11, 2021 13:37:39 GMT
On Resetera, it appears one person got the review copy, although it might’ve been an isolated case, and he doesn’t know yet if he’d be able to post a review before release. I wonder if this is a good move or not. Not having a review before release could sound a bit suspicious, but I guess that the patch is going to fix a lot of bugs and glitches, so without it the reviews would be quite negative on that front. I'd just like to say that, if we're talking about 3 games, even as big as they are, that were already done, for a remaster that has been in the work for a over a year, apparently, that has gone gold a month ago, which Bioware was quite enthusiastic about it, to stall because of a "big day 1 patch", that shouldn't be needed in the first place ... I'm not going to say it. I'm sure it'll all be fine and I'm just being a big spoilsport.
Just thank whatever divine power exists above that they didn't try porting it over to UE4, is all I'm going to say.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 11, 2021 13:41:25 GMT
I'd have been less taken out of the story if Revolver Ocelot showed up in place of the brat and started a 45 minute monologue about how the Reapers were actually the Patriots/La Le Lu Le Lo. I'd have been less taken out if the Crucible "Instant Transmissioned" Goku from Dragon Ball and he Kamehameha'd the entire Reaper fleet into oblivion. Fits what Hackett described the Crucible would do, far better than what we got.
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Post by The Elder King on May 11, 2021 13:44:27 GMT
On Resetera, it appears one person got the review copy, although it might’ve been an isolated case, and he doesn’t know yet if he’d be able to post a review before release. I wonder if this is a good move or not. Not having a review before release could sound a bit suspicious, but I guess that the patch is going to fix a lot of bugs and glitches, so without it the reviews would be quite negative on that front. I'd just like to say that, if we're talking about 3 games, even as big as they are, that were already done, for a remaster that has been in the work for a over a year, apparently, that has gone gold a month ago, which Bioware was quite enthusiastic about it, to stall because of a "big day 1 patch", that shouldn't be needed in the first place ... I'm not going to say it. I'm sure it'll all be fine and I'm just being a big spoilsport.
Just thank whatever divine power exists above that they didn't try porting it over to UE4, is all I'm going to say.
The gold-patch bit is, unfortunately, just another example on the bad habit the industry took for a few years now. I’d really like if things would be different, but I don’t expect them to change anytime soon. IF the LE is fine with the patch, I won’t have much problems with this situation. It’ll be quite bad if the games are afflicted by bugs and glitches even post-patch, though. The reviewer I mentioned did say he didn’t find really problems, technically, so there’s hope on that front. Would porting to UE4 really work, in the context of a remaster? Even if the content would remain the same, I think it’d still qualify as a remake, similar to Demon Souls.
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Post by The Elder King on May 11, 2021 13:50:31 GMT
Ethics and science of it aside, Synthesis is bonkers and doesn't work as an ending to the story told for the previous 90 hours. It's like Mac played Deus Ex for the first time and thought it was really neat, then tried to insert the Helios ending into a Space Cthulu story where the only transhumans up to this point have been evil robot zombies. I'd have been less taken out of the story if Revolver Ocelot showed up in place of the brat and started a 45 minute monologue about how the Reapers were actually the Patriots/La Le Lu Le Lo. Control might have worked if ME3 hadn't derailed TIM into a crazy evil guy who tries to do it, fails at every turn and gets indoctrinated. Oh but you can do it now because....you're the player character and not the villain? Dumb. You can't tell an entire story with a theme and then invert it at the last second. Destroy is the least dumb. Predictable, but it's at least thematically cogent and has been the actual goal of all characters in the narrative(other than the heel) since the beginning. Remove the brat and the tackred on robot holocaust penalty (obviously designed to make the other shitty endings more appealing, not by improving them but attempting to make this ending arbitrarily "worse") and it'd be fine If you lack the talent to actually pull off a twist ending without twisting your story, themes and characters into a pretzel to try and justify it, you should stick to the KISS principle and accept your B+, rather than going off script, trying to be pretentious and getting an F. I quite agree with the bit on Control. Ironically, with ME2 they set up perfectly TIM to fit that role. They just had to make Cerberus an opposite side to the Alliance that could support Shepard in defeating the Reapers. To be fair though, unless I remember incorrectly, Shepard’s situation with Control is a bit different then TIM’s. Shepard doesn’t get to control the Reapers. The new AI that controls them in Control is just based on his personality and values. TIM wanted to control the Reapers directly. Shepard knows he’s going to die, and that he wouldn’t really control the Reapers. You can debate why Shepard would believe that this is going to work, but then again, all endings except Refuse requires Shepard to trust the Catalyst…which is, in my opinion, part of the problem with the endings.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Ascend on May 11, 2021 13:51:39 GMT
Ethics and science of it aside, Synthesis is bonkers and doesn't work as an ending to the story told for the previous 90 hours. It's like Mac played Deus Ex for the first time and thought it was really neat, then tried to insert the Helios ending into a Space Cthulu story where the only transhumans up to this point have been evil robot zombies. I'd have been less taken out of the story if Revolver Ocelot showed up in place of the brat and started a 45 minute monologue about how the Reapers were actually the Patriots/La Le Lu Le Lo. Control might have worked if ME3 hadn't derailed TIM into a crazy evil guy who tries to do it, fails at every turn and gets indoctrinated. Oh but you can do it now because....you're the player character and not the villain? Dumb. You can't tell an entire story with a theme and then invert it at the last second. Destroy is the least dumb. Predictable, but it's at least thematically cogent and has been the actual goal of all characters in the narrative(other than the heel) since the beginning. Remove the brat and the tackred on robot holocaust penalty (obviously designed to make the other shitty endings more appealing, not by improving them but attempting to make this ending arbitrarily "worse") and it'd be fine If you lack the talent to actually pull off a twist ending without twisting your story, themes and characters into a pretzel to try and justify it, you should stick to the KISS principle and accept your B+, rather than going off script, trying to be pretentious and getting an F. I generally agree. The main issue is that since ME1, the reapers were supposed to be beyond our comprehension, and ultimately, BioWare decided to give us some sort of "comprehension" that makes little sense. They downgraded the reapers from a powerful unknown, to machines harvesting organics for reproduction that whine a lot, to an overly rational (or irrational if you will) AI trying to save organics by killing them to create a giant squid storage museum. The reapers' motivations should have remained unknown. The reproduction part is still fine, except for giant baby terminator. They simply wrote themselves into a corner without knowing how to end it. That's why when you plan a large overarching story, you decide the start and end from the beginning and fill in the details afterwards. BioWare didn't plan past the 1st game in terms of overall overarching plot. That's why we got giant terminator baby and starchild.
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May 19, 2024 11:09:50 GMT
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Hanako Ikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 11, 2021 14:08:19 GMT
I guess I never liked Destroy because it felt so generic to me. I never liked Mass Effect when it's presented on a generic level - "Hey, evil aliens are trying to destroy humanity! Time to kill some evil aliens!" Yawn. I hate that kind of cliched story. Sure, Synthesis doesn't make sense, and sure, it does forcibly alter the DNA of every living creature against their consent... but it still feels like a lot more interesting and unique ending than "Kill evil dictator aliens!" Even the Control ending was more unique and special. Too bad we could never find out what happens if we get a Reaper-Shepard. I’d take generic over illogical any time…if the former didn’t add the destruction of all synthetics. Besides, it’s not like a fusion of organics and synthetic is really that novel of an idea, and neither is controlling machines. I get the reasoning behind preferring the other two compared to Destroy, but it’s not really something I share when role playing. The fact that a choice is generic doesn’t affect my decision. Destroy is just as illogical. You activate it by damaging the thing you helped build to stop them, because the leader of the Reapers told you to?
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