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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 7, 2020 22:50:02 GMT
Because that destroys the entire point of BioWare’s games: Your choices mattering. If they make that canon, what else will they? And then all the “Why didn’t they just do that 10 years ago?” even from those who get the ending they want. Your turn: How will it save the franchise? I strongly disagree that "choices mattering" is the "point" specifically of Bioware games (read their About page: "Creating worlds of adventure, conflict and companionship that inspire you to become the hero of your story."), and I also disagree that it's even about choices really "mattering" rather than being flavor text (that's something I said years ago on the old BSN).
In my opinion it will save the franchise because the franchise needs to move forward past this point in time. Mass Effect isn't about Shepard (and it never was), Mass Effect is about its world, and by staying in the same place they're going to struggle to tell new stories about that world. Just like Disney's attempt to move past the original trilogy in Star Wars - regardless of opinions on the execution, the goal itself is similar.
Other studios do that too. However choices and respecting them is something that sets BioWare apart from the others. They tried doing what you think this will do with Andromeda, with mixed results. So having it post-ME3 with a canon ending will just be Andromeda’s mixed results plus everyone pissed off about what things were made canon (again, a lot more than just the ending will need to be chosen).
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 7, 2020 22:57:00 GMT
They tried doing what you think this will do with Andromeda, with mixed results. So having it post-ME3 with a canon ending will just be Andromeda’s mixed results plus everyone pissed off about what things were made canon (again, a lot more than just the ending will need to be chosen). I'm not going to be mad if Bioware chooses a canon. I am going to be mad that they fed us "artistic integrity" and "we stand by our endings", only to invalidate them in a title that will release 14 years later, at the soonest, wasting everyone's time, about something they didn't respect in the first place, only to use it to not do anything meaningful with that choice, or pleasing the fans. It's the waste of time that pisses me the fuck off.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 7, 2020 22:59:22 GMT
They tried doing what you think this will do with Andromeda, with mixed results. So having it post-ME3 with a canon ending will just be Andromeda’s mixed results plus everyone pissed off about what things were made canon (again, a lot more than just the ending will need to be chosen). I'm not going to be mad if Bioware chooses a canon. I am going to be mad that they fed us "artistic integrity" and "we stand by our endings", only to invalidate them in a title that will release 14 years later, at the soonest, wasting everyone's time, about something they didn't respect in the first place, only to use it to not do anything meaningful with that choice, or pleasing the fans. It's the waste of time that pisses me the fuck off. There’s that reaction too.
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 7, 2020 23:04:52 GMT
That either means prequel, small scale sidequel, or a canon ending. None of which are good. I'd say canon sequel is straight up necessary for the future of the series.
Do you refuse to play KotOR because there's a canon?
I guess a key difference though is that you never really expect any game within the Star Wars franchise to really have much regard for choices a game might allow you to make, since it’s an IP that exists primarily as passive media with a fixed canon. I remember when everyone was all upset over Revan, and all I could think was “The fuck did you expect?” It’s Star Wars. Expect the very worst lol. In any case, I’m not sure if a canonized ending to the trilogy is truly necessary for the future of the franchise as a whole, but the endings do leave the Milky Way in a bit of a bind. If they were to go that route though, they’d have their work cut out for them for sure. It’s guaranteed to piss a lot of players off, but it’s going to have to be damn good for it to be worth it. I guess whether or not I’d consider a canonized conclusion is even good is how well it’s executed. At some point, they must have been playing around with this idea around the time of development before production of Andromeda itself was in full swing, and just decided it wasn’t worth the risk or they just didn’t like any of the ideas they passed around. I’d be curious to see what would finally make them decided to just go that route, other than the critical and commercial failings of Andromeda.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2020 23:05:50 GMT
I don't want MEA2, and highly doubt it'd happen from a business standpoint so I'm not worried about it.
If they go with a story running concurrently with the trilogy I hope they keep things divided, stick to their own story.
Mostly, I want a damn fine Multiplayer... and a lot of Omni-tool options including more melee focused gameplay.
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 7, 2020 23:12:08 GMT
If BioWare decides to go the sidequel route, trapping the setting into a single timeline that ends definitively with that ending, I guess I can just watch from a distance to see if it’s even worth my time.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 7, 2020 23:12:16 GMT
So this is exciting news and yes BioWare can pretty much do whatever and I will still get it. Andromeda was good enough, with a great enough story, great set of characters (Ryder being the highlight), great gameplay and terrific role playing that anything they do with the mass effect label on it pretty much will get a buy and very likely a pre order.
Now from the above commentary I would obviously prefer a MEA 2 sequel with Ryder returning but I understand things happen. As much as I liked MEA I know the game didn't seem to be as popular (I hope BioWare sticks to their guns but regardless), I know that people sometimes move on, that you can't secure the contracts to voice actors, and industry realities might make a direct Andromeda sequel difficult. I have spent enough time observing the entertainment industry to know that...shit happens...and this is the risk when you are making, or enjoying, these types of games. So sequel, prequel, concurrent storyline, set it in ANOTHER galaxy, another game with Shepard, some kind of ME racing simulator, I'm game. Just make it a good one.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 7, 2020 23:48:28 GMT
So this is exciting news and yes BioWare can pretty much do whatever and I will still get it. Andromeda was good enough, with a great enough story, great set of characters (Ryder being the highlight), great gameplay and terrific role playing that anything they do with the mass effect label on it pretty much will get a buy and very likely a pre order. Now from the above commentary I would obviously prefer a MEA 2 sequel with Ryder returning but I understand things happen. As much as I liked MEA I know the game didn't seem to be as popular (I hope BioWare sticks to their guns but regardless), I know that people sometimes move on, that you can't secure the contracts to voice actors, and industry realities might make a direct Andromeda sequel difficult. I have spent enough time observing the entertainment industry to know that...shit happens...and this is the risk when you are making, or enjoying, these types of games. So sequel, prequel, concurrent storyline, set it in ANOTHER galaxy, another game with Shepard, some kind of ME racing simulator, I'm game. Just make it a good one. I don't think EA views Andromeda the same way that people online do. So anything is possible, people like to throw around that six million projection, but there are plenty of other factors as well. The one comment we have from EA is "if you look at Mass Effect, and while there was some polarizing sentiment in that franchise, it's actually performed really well, and player engagement is really strong". Now does that mean it sold six million copies? Probably not, but it must have done something well enough too. You don't want to lie or mislead investors or even make them feel that way for there are more consequences to upsetting investors then players.
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Post by ahglock on Nov 8, 2020 0:05:32 GMT
So this is exciting news and yes BioWare can pretty much do whatever and I will still get it. Andromeda was good enough, with a great enough story, great set of characters (Ryder being the highlight), great gameplay and terrific role playing that anything they do with the mass effect label on it pretty much will get a buy and very likely a pre order. Now from the above commentary I would obviously prefer a MEA 2 sequel with Ryder returning but I understand things happen. As much as I liked MEA I know the game didn't seem to be as popular (I hope BioWare sticks to their guns but regardless), I know that people sometimes move on, that you can't secure the contracts to voice actors, and industry realities might make a direct Andromeda sequel difficult. I have spent enough time observing the entertainment industry to know that...shit happens...and this is the risk when you are making, or enjoying, these types of games. So sequel, prequel, concurrent storyline, set it in ANOTHER galaxy, another game with Shepard, some kind of ME racing simulator, I'm game. Just make it a good one. I don't think EA views Andromeda the same way that people online do. So anything is possible, people like to throw around that six million projection, but there are plenty of other factors as well. The one comment we have from EA is "if you look at Mass Effect, and while there was some polarizing sentiment in that franchise, it's actually performed really well, and player engagement is really strong". Now does that mean it sold six million copies? Probably not, but it must have done something well enough too. You don't want to lie or mislead investors or even make them feel that way for there are more consequences to upsetting investors then players.
I'm not so sure about that when your numbers they are less than what you wanted you go with vague qualitative statements like performed well. Unless it totally tanked its not a lie, because sure it didn't do as well as what they wanted but it did better than the 30 games that did horrible.
And if it was just online backlash you might have a point, but reviewers didn't like it either. So it wasn't just crazy fans looking for something to bitch at. Crazu fan base they might feel free to ignore, fan backlash is backed up by reviewers now it seems like the complaints are legit.
That being said I don't think they have that many other options with the franchise. Sure a sidequel one off, but that does nothing for the franchise as a whole. They could go canon, but I just doubt they will go that route. So odds are it will be Andromeda, but they will probably take some steps to distance it from the first game.(new characters, time jump, some calamity that reshapes the feel of the setting etc.)
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Post by colfoley on Nov 8, 2020 0:06:44 GMT
So this is exciting news and yes BioWare can pretty much do whatever and I will still get it. Andromeda was good enough, with a great enough story, great set of characters (Ryder being the highlight), great gameplay and terrific role playing that anything they do with the mass effect label on it pretty much will get a buy and very likely a pre order. Now from the above commentary I would obviously prefer a MEA 2 sequel with Ryder returning but I understand things happen. As much as I liked MEA I know the game didn't seem to be as popular (I hope BioWare sticks to their guns but regardless), I know that people sometimes move on, that you can't secure the contracts to voice actors, and industry realities might make a direct Andromeda sequel difficult. I have spent enough time observing the entertainment industry to know that...shit happens...and this is the risk when you are making, or enjoying, these types of games. So sequel, prequel, concurrent storyline, set it in ANOTHER galaxy, another game with Shepard, some kind of ME racing simulator, I'm game. Just make it a good one. I don't think EA views Andromeda the same way that people online do. So anything is possible, people like to throw around that six million projection, but there are plenty of other factors as well. The one comment we have from EA is "if you look at Mass Effect, and while there was some polarizing sentiment in that franchise, it's actually performed really well, and player engagement is really strong". Now does that mean it sold six million copies? Probably not, but it must have done something well enough too. You don't want to lie or mislead investors or even make them feel that way for there are more consequences to upsetting investors then players. oh I quite agree and the biggest argument that MEA may get a direct sequel is frankly DA2. Another game which was suspiciously similar to Andromeda, had a similar critical reception, EA even cancelled DLC... And yet we got Inquisition which continued on with the same storylines and themes as 2 and sans Hawke's involvement was pretty much a direct sequel. And yes Inquisition was recieved poorly in certain quarters but the game also sold like hotcakes and still won numerous accolades, enough to warrant another pretty much direct sequel being in development. So yeah they clearly could develop a direct sequel to Andromeda, Ryder could or could not return, but as I noted there are forces beyond their control which could make that difficult.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 8, 2020 0:13:14 GMT
I don't think EA views Andromeda the same way that people online do. So anything is possible, people like to throw around that six million projection, but there are plenty of other factors as well. The one comment we have from EA is "if you look at Mass Effect, and while there was some polarizing sentiment in that franchise, it's actually performed really well, and player engagement is really strong". Now does that mean it sold six million copies? Probably not, but it must have done something well enough too. You don't want to lie or mislead investors or even make them feel that way for there are more consequences to upsetting investors then players.
I'm not so sure about that when your numbers they are less than what you wanted you go with vague qualitative statements like performed well. Unless it totally tanked its not a lie, because sure it didn't do as well as what they wanted but it did better than the 30 games that did horrible.
And if it was just online backlash you might have a point, but reviewers didn't like it either. So it wasn't just crazy fans looking for something to bitch at. Crazu fan base they might feel free to ignore, fan backlash is backed up by reviewers now it seems like the complaints are legit.
That being said I don't think they have that many other options with the franchise. Sure a sidequel one off, but that does nothing for the franchise as a whole. They could go canon, but I just doubt they will go that route. So odds are it will be Andromeda, but they will probably take some steps to distance it from the first game.(new characters, time jump, some calamity that reshapes the feel of the setting etc.)
We don't know how EA was viewing that number either, there are so many different numbers and projections that can change all the time, for even BioWare had a different projection of five million copies lifetime at one point. The projections for Anthem altered multiple times during the beta because of the way people were talking about the game. Its why I think that one six million projection doesn't tell the entire story. That is why I also included misleading for misleading people isn't a lie either, but its leading them to the wrong conclusion. Its why I said I don't think EA views the game as poorly as people online claim they do. Its not me saying the game did gangbusters or that it set records, but I think EA is more positive about the game then people seem to think they are which also doesn't mean they aren't negative about other aspects of the game at the same time.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 8, 2020 0:14:15 GMT
And yes Inquisition was recieved poorly in certain quarters but the game also sold like hotcakes So did Anthem. Games sells great, at the $10 price point. Origin has even given it away for free, several times. It's no more a success than Anthem.
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Post by ahglock on Nov 8, 2020 0:16:06 GMT
And yes Inquisition was recieved poorly in certain quarters but the game also sold like hotcakes So did Anthem. Games sells great, at the $10 price point. Origin has even given it away for free, several times. It's no more a success than Anthem. Eh, inquisition was game of the year I suspect it was popular enough to sell well. I doubt this was just a reviewer thing.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 8, 2020 0:18:26 GMT
Eh, inquisition was game of the year I suspect it was popular enough to sell well. I doubt this was just a reviewer thing. It was on sale for $20 a month after release. I wrote articles on that. And the month after that, it was being given away for free. It sold fantastic. EA paid for it. People have no idea the travesty that is the success of DA:I.
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Post by ahglock on Nov 8, 2020 0:35:22 GMT
Eh, inquisition was game of the year I suspect it was popular enough to sell well. I doubt this was just a reviewer thing. It was on sale for $20 a month after release. I wrote articles on that. And the month after that, it was being given away for free. It sold fantastic. EA paid for it. People have no idea the travesty that is the success of DA:I. Wow, I had not heard that. I didn't pick it up for a while just because DA2 was a let down. I liked hawk and the story but I hated the new combat system. It looked like DAI was more of the same. And it mostly was, they refined it instead of changing it. It still sucks game play wise.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 8, 2020 0:38:29 GMT
Eh, inquisition was game of the year I suspect it was popular enough to sell well. I doubt this was just a reviewer thing. It was on sale for $20 a month after release. I wrote articles on that. And the month after that, it was being given away for free. It sold fantastic. EA paid for it. People have no idea the travesty that is the success of DA:I. Citations needed.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 8, 2020 0:39:13 GMT
Me, writing articles shilling for DA:I for the 3 first months of its release.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 8, 2020 0:41:52 GMT
Me, writing articles shilling for DA:I for the 3 first months of its release. Citations for your evidence. You by yourself are not a credible source.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 8, 2020 0:46:19 GMT
Citations for your evidence. You by yourself are not a credible source. Well, it wouldn't help much. It's not in English. And I would really, really rather I didn't, because it has my actual name on the article. And maybe that won't mean much to you, but it will mean much to certain other people. And that's going to have a negative effect on the people talking to me.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 8, 2020 0:52:12 GMT
Citations for your evidence. You by yourself are not a credible source. Well, it wouldn't help much. It's not in English. And I would really, really rather I didn't, because it has my actual name on the article. And maybe that won't mean much to you, but it will mean much to certain other people. And that's going to have a negative effect on the people talking to me. You could just provide the evidence itself, not your article. I don’t want that.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 8, 2020 1:00:01 GMT
You could just provide the evidence itself, not your article. I don’t want that. The article repository of the website from 6 years ago that I no longer have access to? I don't even know if it will be archived or not, or if I could even lump it on someone to find it for me. I'd probably get told to fuck off at the request alone. Shit, I'd tell me to fuck off. If I do get it, it's not coming in any timely fashion. Have the tenths of times I've recounted the wikipedia article and the excerpts of DA:I sales in its first year period not been enough to prove my point? I guess not. There, I answered myself. I'll send a text. Now is not an appropriate time in my timezone. I will get an answer, negative or positive, whenever.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 8, 2020 1:06:47 GMT
You could just provide the evidence itself, not your article. I don’t want that. The article repository of the website from 6 years ago that I no longer have access to? I don't even know if it will be archived or not, or if I could even lump it on someone to find it for me. I'd probably get told to fuck off at the request alone. Shit, I'd tell me to fuck off. If I do get it, it's not coming in any timely fashion. Have the tenths of times I've recounted the wikipedia article and the excerpts of DA:I sales in its first year period not been enough to prove my point? I guess not. There, I answered myself. I'll send a text. Now is not an appropriate time in my timezone. I will get an answer, negative or positive, whenever. Then until you have evidence to back you up, your claim is worthless and it's better for everyone for you not to share it. And no, Wikipedia is not a valid source since anyone can edit it. Same with Google or other search engines. They're good beginning points for research, but not good end points.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 8, 2020 1:13:11 GMT
Then until you have evidence to back you up, your claim is worthless and it's better for everyone for you not to share it. Sure. It's better to be served corporate lies than be aware what is going on. And no, Wikipedia is not a valid source since anyone can edit it Even when it has citations from industry professionals? Listen, do you really think that the only "credible" source is Andrew Wilson or something? These people are stating facts with a ~3% margin of error, at worst. I would not trust a word about the "success" of any EA title from the mouth of Andrew Wilson, unless they came out with verified numbers.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 8, 2020 1:54:22 GMT
And yes Inquisition was recieved poorly in certain quarters but the game also sold like hotcakes So did Anthem. Games sells great, at the $10 price point. Origin has even given it away for free, several times. It's no more a success than Anthem. And what, exactly, is your point? This is just another example of yet another franchise that still sold well enough to continue getting support from BioWare/ EA. They are continuing to develop 'Anthem 2.0' (again what that means we will just have to see). It may have not been my favorite game and again may not have been critically well recieved in some areas, but it makes absolutely zero sense to continue to work on a game/ franchise that flopped.
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Post by ZaudStorm™ on Nov 8, 2020 1:58:31 GMT
I don't even wanna think of the release date for this... I mean DA4 has to come out first. Calling it now, will be out by late 2024 at latest.
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