Waiting for Mass Effect - Legendary Edition. ME3 ending. A possibile, logical explanation?
Dec 2, 2020 15:47:29 GMT
jamiecotc, SirSourpuss, and 2 more like this
Post by kalreegar on Dec 2, 2020 15:47:29 GMT
After a nice and intense discussion with some users in the past days, I decided to collect and organize in a single post what was written and discussed.
Hoping that it could be interesting and maybe useful for someone, in view of the upcoming publication of the Remaster
THE CATALYST
The catalyst is an advanced AI. It was created by the Leviathans in order to be “the catalyst of peace” between organics and synthetics and to solve the “chaos problem”. The created will always rebel against their creators: conflict between synthetics and organics seemed to always arise. The catalyst goal is to prevent the so called "technological singularity": without us to stop it, synthetics would destroy all organics.
The reapers are its current solution to the Chaos problem (cyclically harvest advanced civilizations; a sort of "galactic reset". We harvest advanced civilizations, leaving the younger ones alone)
Let's remember that, as an IA, a construct, the catalyst is strictly bound to its starting axioms. The truths and purposes that Leviathans have given him.
The assumption that "The created will always rebel against their creators... and synthetics would destroy all organics." could be true, or this could be bullshit. Irrelevant. The leviathans thought it was true, and they transmitted this information to the catalyst.
So, the catalyst was created to bring balance. To preserve organic life. To be "the catalyst for peace between organics and synthetics".... I was first created to oversee the relations between synthetic and organic life. To establish a connection....
But this means that... until the organics begin to create synthetics (AI) its intervention is not required! It is bound (by its own axioms, by its internal logic and by his own goals) to wait for the organic species to evolve and progress until they can create synthetics AI, and for the (inevitable) conflict to arise.
Only in that moment the catalyst can intervene (because without organics + synthetics in conflict, he cannot perform his function as a "catalyst of peace", and to "oversee their relations").
Until that moment, the catalyst leaves organic civilizations alone, lets them develop peacefully, and studies them. It continues to accumulate data and information, hoping to find the final solution to the "Chaos Problem".
When a powerful AI are created and rebel against their creators, when conflict finally arise, the reapers intervene, fast and lethal.
The mass relay network, the Citadel trap, everything is planned for programmed to make the harvest fast and efficient and, in doing so, the catalyst fulfills its purpose.
The catalyst controls the reapers. I control the reapers. They are my solution.
Probably it's not the same form of "direct" control (like for example Harbinger vs Collector's leader). The catalyst says that it embodies the collective intelligence of the reapers.
So, even if the Catalyst can of course influence and direct the reapers, every reaper retains, within certain limits, a specific individuality.
As Sovereign said, each of them is an independent nation.
Collective intelligence is a different concept than direct control, it’s not a master vs slaves, puppeteer vs puppets relationship.
The catalyst probably does not directly and fully control the Citadel. At least not the arms and the mass-relay (the relevant parts), and surely not during the event of ME1 and until ME3 -Cerberus Base/Priority Earth.
Maybe it used to fully control the Citadel through the keepers (we know there is a strong connection between the keepers and the citadel/reapers, and that the keepers were responsive to the reapers signals), but we also know that the Prothean scientists from Ilos somehow broke this connection.
As Vigil said: before each invasion, a signal is sent through the station, compelling the Keepers to activate the Citadel relay; after decades of feverish study, the scientists found a way to alter this signal. Using the Conduit, they gained access to the Citadel and made the modification.
When the Protheans altered the Citadel’s signals, they broke Sovereign’s hold over the keepers.
The Keepers are no longer directly controlled by Sovereign or its ilk
So
if the Prothean scientist altered the Citadel's Signals (Vigil)
and
if the Citadel is (part of) the Catalyst (Catalyst)
thus-> The Prothean scientist altered (at least part of) the Catalyst’s Signals.
and consequently -> the reapers (and the catalyst) lost their hold over the keepers and the Citadel.
Additionally, we never see the catalyst directly controlling anything until ME3 ending (a simple elevator and the three platforms), even when it would have been useful for its purposes.
The catalyst needed the Reapers, the Sovereign, Cerberus, indoctrinated Tim and finally even Shepard to perform “material” operations.
Nothing forbids that after the reapers have regained control of the citadel, the catalyst has been reinstated in all its past skills and functions. But during ME1? Nope.
The catalyst is very likely unable to fully control the Crucible, too. Referring to new possibilities that the Crucible created, it says "I can't make them happen"
So we can summarize the previous point in one general statement: the Catalyst surely is incapable of direct control over the Citadel (at least from ME1 to ME3 ending); probably he cannot fully interact and control the Crucible; it can "somehow" influence/control” the reapers (via collective intelligence)
THE CRUCIBLE
The crucible is, according to the catalyst, little more than a rude power source (from the catalyst point of view, at least), but in combination with the citadel it is capable of releasing a huge amount of energy.
We don't know who designed the Crucible; surely not the Leviathans, because the catalyst says, referring to the crucible designers, "you wouldn't know them" (and Shepard knows the Leviathans).
We only know that its design evolved many times.
THE CRUCIBLE DOCKING
This is the crucial moment. Once the crucible docked, Shepard is brought in front of the catalyst. The crucible is not working, and it needs to be activated.
And the catalyst needs Shepard to do that (because as we see it can't activate/use the crucible by itself).
The 1 million dollars question is: why the catalyst doesn't shut off the crucible or, if it can't do that personally, why doesn't it wait until the crucible run out of energy (the Crucible seems to be limited durability) or order to the reapers to destroy it, and then continue the harvest?
In other words: why does the catalyst seem to strongly desire that the crucible is preserved and activated?
The answer to this question is resumable in one sentence: THE VARIABLES HAVE BEEN ALTERED.
More specifically:
1. the catalyst's solution (the reapers) won't work anymore.
The organics of this cycle have proved to be quite exceptional. No one before them had gone so far, had managed to build and dock the crucible, and come so close to victory.
You have hope, more than you think. The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever proves it. But it also proves my solution won’t work any more.
It has been proven that it is possible not only to conceive, but also realize the crucible, and dock it on the citadel. The crucible is now a real threat: its existence as a tangible weapon of mass destruction - and not just as a dreamy/abstract project - changes everything.
The fact that the technology behind the Crucible has been mastered, and its project are now scattered all over the Galaxy (see Liara's beacon), means that the Reapers are now vulnerable.
Organic species now possess is a weapon that can instant-kill all the reapers, and all synthetic life in the galaxy.
No matter what, one day the Reapers will be defeated by it (and refusal ending proves it -> we see Liara’s message and than the alien stargazer confirms that the reapers are no longer a threat to them).
Even if the crucible is not used here and now, the reapers glorious days are done.
The crucible docking, from the catalyst point of view, can be seen as the famous "last straw" (the catalyst finally acknowledge that the process, started with the "blitz" of prothean scientist of Ilos, is no longer reversible). Something very close to what legion say about the heretics ""An equation with a result of 1.33382 returns as 1.33381. This changes the result of all higher processes. We will reach different conclusions".
A little difference, but with huge consequences.
So, if its current solution (reapers) won't work anymore, the catalyst needs to find another solution.
And luckily...
2. The crucible changed the catalyst... created new possibilities.
The catalyst original solution won't work anymore, but new solutions are now available.
The crucible changed me, created new... possibilities.
All of these new solutions are better than the reapers. Why?
- Synthesis: do I really need to explain why this is the perfect solution from the catalyst point of view?
The conflict between organic and synthetic is solved forever, by changing the deep "nature" of both of them, by “combining all synthetic and organic life into a new framework”. The solution is definitive.
- Control: the reapers can now be "controlled" by a new, upgraded catalyst 2.0, the so called Sheparlyst. And this time maybe, thanks to the blue wave of energy, not through collective intelligence, but true, direct control: “We will be yours to control and direct as you see fit.”)
Thanks to Shepard's memories and thoughts, the reapers can be readapted to a new task: be a force of “peace-keeping”, the guardian of the galaxy.
- Destroy: this cycle has proven itself worthy/ready, somehow special, and since crucible is a weapon that can destroy every single synthetic organism in the galaxy in few minutes, the organics of this “exceptional” cycle have proven that they can effectively deal with the synthetics threat (or, at least, we can assume better and longer than the reapers and/or other less special cycles).
3. It appears organics are more resourceful than we thought.
The catalyst considers this cycle special, and Shepard to be even more special. It clearly stated that several times.
Clearly organics are more resourceful than we realised
You have hope, more than you think. The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever proves it. But it also proves my solution won't work any more.
You are ready and you may choose it.
(plus the insight about the reapers being interested in Shepard since ME2)
This is very important to keep in mind.
Shepard is special. Shepard is the avatar of this cycle (as Javik called him), the first organic ever to stand in front of the catalyst... we could even say that he embodies the collective will and strength and readiness of this cycle.
Shepard willingness to make a difficult choice (one of the main themes of the trilogy, btw) is the key ingredient now.
If there must be a new solution, a new path to walk, this depends entirely on Shepard.
Why?
Synthesis can't work without Shepard.
It is not something that can be... forced. You are ready. And you may choose it.
"You" is of course referred to Shepard, because he is the only one who can make a choice in that situation; and he's the only one that can be somehow "ready" (he is a cyborg, partially synthetic, he has successfully dealt with several synthetics, the geths, established a relationship of trust with a true AI - EDI etc).
Synthesis is here and now, with a ready Shepard, willing to spread through the galaxy his " organic energy, the essence of who and what you are".. or never.
Any other “essence”, and the "green wave" won't work.
Same with control: it can't work without Shepard. - the Sheparlyst.
"your corporeal form will be dissolved. But your thoughts and even your memories will continue."
It must be Shepard to take the place of the catalyst. Not TIM, not a servant of the reapers, not just anyone.
What about destroy? Same thing, more or less. But we have to think it over a little more deeply here.
If control or synthesis are discarded by Shepard (or are not available due very low EMS) the Catalyst is still willing to entrust the future of the galaxy to this cycle, and allow the destruction of the reapers (and of itself, as an AI).
As we have seen, organics now can somehow deal with the chaos problem. The crucible is a tech that can instant-kill every single synthetic in the galaxy, in the hand of a special cycle that has almost defeated the greatest synthetic force ever... not a bad starting point, I would say. Way more effective than the reapers, surely.
But.
But this cycle (and Shepard, its avatar) have yet to prove that they have "what it takes".
To have "the balls" and the will to kill all the geths, all the useful AI and IV (the technology you rely on), to blow up the mass relays... and with low ems, to kill billions of their kind in the process, and leave the galaxy devastated.
To accept a big sacrifice.
If Shepard not only reject the catalyst's "good" solutions, but also hesitates and refuse to unleash a genocidal, apocalyptic red wave on his enemies, on synthetics and (possibly) on his own people... than this means that he was not really ready.
This cycle, however exceptional, fell on the finish line. Shepard, the avatar of this cycle, the best the galaxy has to offer... proved to be weak in the decisive moment. Incapable to take on the burden of of handling the Chaos problem.
It is now in your power to destroy us. But be warned, others will be destroyed as well. The crucible will not discriminate.
"if there is to be a new solution, you must act"
Your time is at an end, you must decide.
If Shepard refuse to act and decide, the cycle and harvest will continue, to the bitter end.
This is why the catalyst helps Shepard, gives him information, offers him several choices, doesn't shut off /destroy the crucible or simply surrender, back off and leaves this cycle alone.
The variables have been altered, and both Shepard and the catalyst need the crucible to be activated if they want to achieve their respective goals.
But it must happen right here, right now, with Shepard. Shepard must choose. He must act. He must decide.
Only Shepard can concretize the new possibilities: without an act of free will from Shepard, the catalyst won't accept destroy, and synthesis/control wouldn’t work.
In conclusion:
I) IF the catalyst is incapable of direct, material actions (at least from ME1 to ME3-priority earth)
and
II) IF the docking of the crucible has
a. demonstrated to the catalyst that the reapers-cycles solution won't work anymore
b. provided better solutions (with “Shepard last free choice” as key factor to realize each of them)
THAN the catalyst actions (and me3 ending, and the whole trilogy) make sense.
From a strictly logical point of view, at least.
Certainly the trilogy has many other flaws, and criticism is legitimate .
Of course we can argue that there is still a lot of bad writing around, artistical and ethical problems, far-fetched things, dark spots and too many things not explained or taken for granted or left implied... but in my opinion that's a whole different thing than violate the law of non-contradiction.
If we keep in mind the above listed elements, we will be able to approach and replay the upcoming Legendary Edition without being stucked in a loop of logical contradictions.
And enjoy, once more, this wonderful saga.
Because it is wonderful.
Or, at least, that's what I will do!
Hoping that it could be interesting and maybe useful for someone, in view of the upcoming publication of the Remaster
THE CATALYST
The catalyst is an advanced AI. It was created by the Leviathans in order to be “the catalyst of peace” between organics and synthetics and to solve the “chaos problem”. The created will always rebel against their creators: conflict between synthetics and organics seemed to always arise. The catalyst goal is to prevent the so called "technological singularity": without us to stop it, synthetics would destroy all organics.
The reapers are its current solution to the Chaos problem (cyclically harvest advanced civilizations; a sort of "galactic reset". We harvest advanced civilizations, leaving the younger ones alone)
Let's remember that, as an IA, a construct, the catalyst is strictly bound to its starting axioms. The truths and purposes that Leviathans have given him.
The assumption that "The created will always rebel against their creators... and synthetics would destroy all organics." could be true, or this could be bullshit. Irrelevant. The leviathans thought it was true, and they transmitted this information to the catalyst.
So, the catalyst was created to bring balance. To preserve organic life. To be "the catalyst for peace between organics and synthetics".... I was first created to oversee the relations between synthetic and organic life. To establish a connection....
But this means that... until the organics begin to create synthetics (AI) its intervention is not required! It is bound (by its own axioms, by its internal logic and by his own goals) to wait for the organic species to evolve and progress until they can create synthetics AI, and for the (inevitable) conflict to arise.
Only in that moment the catalyst can intervene (because without organics + synthetics in conflict, he cannot perform his function as a "catalyst of peace", and to "oversee their relations").
Until that moment, the catalyst leaves organic civilizations alone, lets them develop peacefully, and studies them. It continues to accumulate data and information, hoping to find the final solution to the "Chaos Problem".
When a powerful AI are created and rebel against their creators, when conflict finally arise, the reapers intervene, fast and lethal.
The mass relay network, the Citadel trap, everything is planned for programmed to make the harvest fast and efficient and, in doing so, the catalyst fulfills its purpose.
The catalyst controls the reapers. I control the reapers. They are my solution.
Probably it's not the same form of "direct" control (like for example Harbinger vs Collector's leader). The catalyst says that it embodies the collective intelligence of the reapers.
So, even if the Catalyst can of course influence and direct the reapers, every reaper retains, within certain limits, a specific individuality.
As Sovereign said, each of them is an independent nation.
Collective intelligence is a different concept than direct control, it’s not a master vs slaves, puppeteer vs puppets relationship.
The catalyst probably does not directly and fully control the Citadel. At least not the arms and the mass-relay (the relevant parts), and surely not during the event of ME1 and until ME3 -Cerberus Base/Priority Earth.
Maybe it used to fully control the Citadel through the keepers (we know there is a strong connection between the keepers and the citadel/reapers, and that the keepers were responsive to the reapers signals), but we also know that the Prothean scientists from Ilos somehow broke this connection.
As Vigil said: before each invasion, a signal is sent through the station, compelling the Keepers to activate the Citadel relay; after decades of feverish study, the scientists found a way to alter this signal. Using the Conduit, they gained access to the Citadel and made the modification.
When the Protheans altered the Citadel’s signals, they broke Sovereign’s hold over the keepers.
The Keepers are no longer directly controlled by Sovereign or its ilk
So
if the Prothean scientist altered the Citadel's Signals (Vigil)
and
if the Citadel is (part of) the Catalyst (Catalyst)
thus-> The Prothean scientist altered (at least part of) the Catalyst’s Signals.
and consequently -> the reapers (and the catalyst) lost their hold over the keepers and the Citadel.
Additionally, we never see the catalyst directly controlling anything until ME3 ending (a simple elevator and the three platforms), even when it would have been useful for its purposes.
The catalyst needed the Reapers, the Sovereign, Cerberus, indoctrinated Tim and finally even Shepard to perform “material” operations.
Nothing forbids that after the reapers have regained control of the citadel, the catalyst has been reinstated in all its past skills and functions. But during ME1? Nope.
The catalyst is very likely unable to fully control the Crucible, too. Referring to new possibilities that the Crucible created, it says "I can't make them happen"
So we can summarize the previous point in one general statement: the Catalyst surely is incapable of direct control over the Citadel (at least from ME1 to ME3 ending); probably he cannot fully interact and control the Crucible; it can "somehow" influence/control” the reapers (via collective intelligence)
THE CRUCIBLE
The crucible is, according to the catalyst, little more than a rude power source (from the catalyst point of view, at least), but in combination with the citadel it is capable of releasing a huge amount of energy.
We don't know who designed the Crucible; surely not the Leviathans, because the catalyst says, referring to the crucible designers, "you wouldn't know them" (and Shepard knows the Leviathans).
We only know that its design evolved many times.
THE CRUCIBLE DOCKING
This is the crucial moment. Once the crucible docked, Shepard is brought in front of the catalyst. The crucible is not working, and it needs to be activated.
And the catalyst needs Shepard to do that (because as we see it can't activate/use the crucible by itself).
The 1 million dollars question is: why the catalyst doesn't shut off the crucible or, if it can't do that personally, why doesn't it wait until the crucible run out of energy (the Crucible seems to be limited durability) or order to the reapers to destroy it, and then continue the harvest?
In other words: why does the catalyst seem to strongly desire that the crucible is preserved and activated?
The answer to this question is resumable in one sentence: THE VARIABLES HAVE BEEN ALTERED.
More specifically:
1. the catalyst's solution (the reapers) won't work anymore.
The organics of this cycle have proved to be quite exceptional. No one before them had gone so far, had managed to build and dock the crucible, and come so close to victory.
You have hope, more than you think. The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever proves it. But it also proves my solution won’t work any more.
It has been proven that it is possible not only to conceive, but also realize the crucible, and dock it on the citadel. The crucible is now a real threat: its existence as a tangible weapon of mass destruction - and not just as a dreamy/abstract project - changes everything.
The fact that the technology behind the Crucible has been mastered, and its project are now scattered all over the Galaxy (see Liara's beacon), means that the Reapers are now vulnerable.
Organic species now possess is a weapon that can instant-kill all the reapers, and all synthetic life in the galaxy.
No matter what, one day the Reapers will be defeated by it (and refusal ending proves it -> we see Liara’s message and than the alien stargazer confirms that the reapers are no longer a threat to them).
Even if the crucible is not used here and now, the reapers glorious days are done.
The crucible docking, from the catalyst point of view, can be seen as the famous "last straw" (the catalyst finally acknowledge that the process, started with the "blitz" of prothean scientist of Ilos, is no longer reversible). Something very close to what legion say about the heretics ""An equation with a result of 1.33382 returns as 1.33381. This changes the result of all higher processes. We will reach different conclusions".
A little difference, but with huge consequences.
So, if its current solution (reapers) won't work anymore, the catalyst needs to find another solution.
And luckily...
2. The crucible changed the catalyst... created new possibilities.
The catalyst original solution won't work anymore, but new solutions are now available.
The crucible changed me, created new... possibilities.
All of these new solutions are better than the reapers. Why?
- Synthesis: do I really need to explain why this is the perfect solution from the catalyst point of view?
The conflict between organic and synthetic is solved forever, by changing the deep "nature" of both of them, by “combining all synthetic and organic life into a new framework”. The solution is definitive.
- Control: the reapers can now be "controlled" by a new, upgraded catalyst 2.0, the so called Sheparlyst. And this time maybe, thanks to the blue wave of energy, not through collective intelligence, but true, direct control: “We will be yours to control and direct as you see fit.”)
Thanks to Shepard's memories and thoughts, the reapers can be readapted to a new task: be a force of “peace-keeping”, the guardian of the galaxy.
- Destroy: this cycle has proven itself worthy/ready, somehow special, and since crucible is a weapon that can destroy every single synthetic organism in the galaxy in few minutes, the organics of this “exceptional” cycle have proven that they can effectively deal with the synthetics threat (or, at least, we can assume better and longer than the reapers and/or other less special cycles).
3. It appears organics are more resourceful than we thought.
The catalyst considers this cycle special, and Shepard to be even more special. It clearly stated that several times.
Clearly organics are more resourceful than we realised
You have hope, more than you think. The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever proves it. But it also proves my solution won't work any more.
You are ready and you may choose it.
(plus the insight about the reapers being interested in Shepard since ME2)
This is very important to keep in mind.
Shepard is special. Shepard is the avatar of this cycle (as Javik called him), the first organic ever to stand in front of the catalyst... we could even say that he embodies the collective will and strength and readiness of this cycle.
Shepard willingness to make a difficult choice (one of the main themes of the trilogy, btw) is the key ingredient now.
If there must be a new solution, a new path to walk, this depends entirely on Shepard.
Why?
Synthesis can't work without Shepard.
It is not something that can be... forced. You are ready. And you may choose it.
"You" is of course referred to Shepard, because he is the only one who can make a choice in that situation; and he's the only one that can be somehow "ready" (he is a cyborg, partially synthetic, he has successfully dealt with several synthetics, the geths, established a relationship of trust with a true AI - EDI etc).
Synthesis is here and now, with a ready Shepard, willing to spread through the galaxy his " organic energy, the essence of who and what you are".. or never.
Any other “essence”, and the "green wave" won't work.
Same with control: it can't work without Shepard. - the Sheparlyst.
"your corporeal form will be dissolved. But your thoughts and even your memories will continue."
It must be Shepard to take the place of the catalyst. Not TIM, not a servant of the reapers, not just anyone.
What about destroy? Same thing, more or less. But we have to think it over a little more deeply here.
If control or synthesis are discarded by Shepard (or are not available due very low EMS) the Catalyst is still willing to entrust the future of the galaxy to this cycle, and allow the destruction of the reapers (and of itself, as an AI).
As we have seen, organics now can somehow deal with the chaos problem. The crucible is a tech that can instant-kill every single synthetic in the galaxy, in the hand of a special cycle that has almost defeated the greatest synthetic force ever... not a bad starting point, I would say. Way more effective than the reapers, surely.
But.
But this cycle (and Shepard, its avatar) have yet to prove that they have "what it takes".
To have "the balls" and the will to kill all the geths, all the useful AI and IV (the technology you rely on), to blow up the mass relays... and with low ems, to kill billions of their kind in the process, and leave the galaxy devastated.
To accept a big sacrifice.
If Shepard not only reject the catalyst's "good" solutions, but also hesitates and refuse to unleash a genocidal, apocalyptic red wave on his enemies, on synthetics and (possibly) on his own people... than this means that he was not really ready.
This cycle, however exceptional, fell on the finish line. Shepard, the avatar of this cycle, the best the galaxy has to offer... proved to be weak in the decisive moment. Incapable to take on the burden of of handling the Chaos problem.
It is now in your power to destroy us. But be warned, others will be destroyed as well. The crucible will not discriminate.
"if there is to be a new solution, you must act"
Your time is at an end, you must decide.
If Shepard refuse to act and decide, the cycle and harvest will continue, to the bitter end.
This is why the catalyst helps Shepard, gives him information, offers him several choices, doesn't shut off /destroy the crucible or simply surrender, back off and leaves this cycle alone.
The variables have been altered, and both Shepard and the catalyst need the crucible to be activated if they want to achieve their respective goals.
But it must happen right here, right now, with Shepard. Shepard must choose. He must act. He must decide.
Only Shepard can concretize the new possibilities: without an act of free will from Shepard, the catalyst won't accept destroy, and synthesis/control wouldn’t work.
In conclusion:
I) IF the catalyst is incapable of direct, material actions (at least from ME1 to ME3-priority earth)
and
II) IF the docking of the crucible has
a. demonstrated to the catalyst that the reapers-cycles solution won't work anymore
b. provided better solutions (with “Shepard last free choice” as key factor to realize each of them)
THAN the catalyst actions (and me3 ending, and the whole trilogy) make sense.
From a strictly logical point of view, at least.
Certainly the trilogy has many other flaws, and criticism is legitimate .
Of course we can argue that there is still a lot of bad writing around, artistical and ethical problems, far-fetched things, dark spots and too many things not explained or taken for granted or left implied... but in my opinion that's a whole different thing than violate the law of non-contradiction.
If we keep in mind the above listed elements, we will be able to approach and replay the upcoming Legendary Edition without being stucked in a loop of logical contradictions.
And enjoy, once more, this wonderful saga.
Because it is wonderful.
Or, at least, that's what I will do!
