azarhal
N6
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 7,957 Likes: 21,967
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Post by azarhal on Mar 22, 2021 15:16:09 GMT
Took my new friend Goro to meet a little old lady friend. Street kid background told me that Wakako's grandson was killed by Arasaka. Sad. So that's why the parade info comes for free! Yes and you can only learn the reason if you play Street kid.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 23, 2021 3:46:34 GMT
I was thinking about trying Cyberpunk again since GoG has it for 20% off right now, but after reading the recent patch notes I am still going to pass for now.
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seven
N6
All the things.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 5,624 Likes: 13,884
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All the things.
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seven
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by seven on Mar 23, 2021 9:34:53 GMT
Some various pictures from last night's travels. Yeahhhhhh....that is not gonna buff out... Inset bad boys theme here -> When V said she wanted to get into River's pants...this is not quite what she meant... Is that a bullet in your chamber...or are you just happy to see me? Someone needs to take the black and white filter away from me. Space magic in action! Floating streetlights!
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Party like it's 2023!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 23, 2021 18:20:25 GMT
Interesting that the bullet is actually in the chamber of the gun. If you have delayed rendering, you might see the clip and bullet appear before the gun loads in around it.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 27, 2021 5:01:25 GMT
Being about halfway through my second character....I've come to a realization. That I was wrong. I was very wrong about some aspects of this game, and didn't fully notice until this second go around. This is a real, meaty RPG. Once I accepted and moved past CD's blatant lies and false promises (which they don't get a pass for.) This guy really sums up my new, updated thoughts.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 27, 2021 11:14:53 GMT
Yeah i don't see myself wanting to do further playthroughs unless there's post game expanions that deal with the pathetic railroaded garbage that is the current endings.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2021 15:42:14 GMT
Yeah i don't see myself wanting to do further playthroughs unless there's post game expanions that deal with the pathetic railroaded garbage that is the current endings. You do realize it's a Cyberpunk game right? as in the genre? You do understand what that entails right? Happy endings don't exist. The ending is exactly what anyone whos familiar with the genre should have expected.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 28, 2021 16:19:46 GMT
Yeah i don't see myself wanting to do further playthroughs unless there's post game expanions that deal with the pathetic railroaded garbage that is the current endings. You do realize it's a Cyberpunk game right? as in the genre? You do understand what that entails right? Happy endings don't exist. The ending is exactly what anyone whos familiar with the genre should have expected. I know the genre and personal failure in every ending isn't what Ponsmith's vision of Cyberpunk is about based on my understanding.
Had no expectations of sunshine and bunnies but even excluding the last second plot cancer, there's nothing expected about having your character completely rewritten on the basis that they chose not to kill some Nomads. From a company who's reputation has been built on choice that's terrible.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2021 16:31:44 GMT
You do realize it's a Cyberpunk game right? as in the genre? You do understand what that entails right? Happy endings don't exist. The ending is exactly what anyone whos familiar with the genre should have expected. I know the genre and personal failure in every ending isn't what Ponsmith's vision of Cyberpunk is about based on my understanding.
Had no expectations of sunshine and bunnies but even excluding the last second plot cancer, there's nothing expected about having your character completely rewritten on the basis that they chose not to kill some Nomads. From a company who's reputation has been built on choice that's terrible.
Re-written how exactly? V is a pretty blank character, with little development in general. Do you mean the Arasaka ending? If so, that is exactly how that ending should go. You valued your life more than anything else, and that is the price that is paid. Remember the PUNK part of Cyberpunk. Or do you mean Johnny's ending where he takes the body? Again it coincides with the genre, V realizes they are already basically dead, why bother going back? Just let johnny get his second chance at life. This ending is V embracing the nihilism of their situation ending the torment. Or do you mean the what I call "Big Shot" ending, where V ultimately achieves the goal they started the game trying to reach? Becoming a Legend in Night City, surpassing even Morgan Blackhand (Pondsmiths own character). With an implication that Mr Blue Eyes will help V look for a "cure" in exchange for the Casino job? I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, I honestly don't understand what mean when you say V was re-written last minute. Every ending is a logical end point, depending on how the player might feel about the journey along the way.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 28, 2021 16:59:48 GMT
I know the genre and personal failure in every ending isn't what Ponsmith's vision of Cyberpunk is about based on my understanding.
Had no expectations of sunshine and bunnies but even excluding the last second plot cancer, there's nothing expected about having your character completely rewritten on the basis that they chose not to kill some Nomads. From a company who's reputation has been built on choice that's terrible.
Re-written how exactly? V is a pretty blank character, with little development in general. Do you mean the Arasaka ending? If so, that is exactly how that ending should go. You valued your life more than anything else, and that is the price that is paid. Remember the PUNK part of Cyberpunk. Or do you mean Johnny's ending where he takes the body? Again it coincides with the genre, V realizes they are already basically dead, why bother going back? Just let johnny get his second chance at life. This ending is V embracing the nihilism of their situation ending the torment. Or do you mean the what I call "Big Shot" ending, where V ultimately achieves the goal they started the game trying to reach? Becoming a Legend in Night City, surpassing even Morgan Blackhand (Pondsmiths own character). With an implication that Mr Blue Eyes will help V look for a "cure" in exchange for the Casino job? I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, I honestly don't understand what mean when you say V was re-written last minute. Every ending is a logical end point, depending on how the player might feel about the journey along the way. Making it big was Jackie's goal. So for starters deciding to not risk friends leading to V becoming a depressed Mr Big of Afterlife who treats his friends and loved ones like garbage.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 28, 2021 17:16:30 GMT
Yeah i don't see myself wanting to do further playthroughs unless there's post game expanions that deal with the pathetic railroaded garbage that is the current endings. You do realize it's a Cyberpunk game right? as in the genre? You do understand what that entails right? Happy endings don't exist. The ending is exactly what anyone whos familiar with the genre should have expected. This isn’t true. There are many cyberpunk stories that have happy endings. And many more that are at least more hopeful than this game was.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2021 17:40:10 GMT
Re-written how exactly? V is a pretty blank character, with little development in general. Do you mean the Arasaka ending? If so, that is exactly how that ending should go. You valued your life more than anything else, and that is the price that is paid. Remember the PUNK part of Cyberpunk. Or do you mean Johnny's ending where he takes the body? Again it coincides with the genre, V realizes they are already basically dead, why bother going back? Just let johnny get his second chance at life. This ending is V embracing the nihilism of their situation ending the torment. Or do you mean the what I call "Big Shot" ending, where V ultimately achieves the goal they started the game trying to reach? Becoming a Legend in Night City, surpassing even Morgan Blackhand (Pondsmiths own character). With an implication that Mr Blue Eyes will help V look for a "cure" in exchange for the Casino job? I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, I honestly don't understand what mean when you say V was re-written last minute. Every ending is a logical end point, depending on how the player might feel about the journey along the way. Making it big was Jackie's goal. So for starters deciding to not risk friends leading to V becoming a depressed Mr Big of Afterlife who treats his friends and loved ones like garbage.
It was their mutual goal, as friends. Never at any point when Dex asks you if you wanna go out in a blaze of glory, can you say otherwise. The best you can do is say "No such thing as a peaceful end in this city", which is not a rejection, simply a cynical doubt.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 28, 2021 17:44:16 GMT
Making it big was Jackie's goal. So for starters deciding to not risk friends leading to V becoming a depressed Mr Big of Afterlife who treats his friends and loved ones like garbage.
It was their mutual goal, as friends. Never at any point when Dex asks you if you wanna go out in a blaze of glory, can you say otherwise. The best you can do is say "No such thing as a peaceful end in this city", which is not a rejection, simply a cynical doubt. I completely disagree with your interpretation. By your logic their should be no other endings but Sun.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2021 17:50:25 GMT
You do realize it's a Cyberpunk game right? as in the genre? You do understand what that entails right? Happy endings don't exist. The ending is exactly what anyone whos familiar with the genre should have expected. This isn’t true. There are many cyberpunk stories that have happy endings. And many more that are at least more hopeful than this game was. That is true, some are. I stand corrected on that. However, I don't really understand what you people expected, when the whole plot is your neurons literally being devoured by nanomachines. That is so far beyond the power of medicine to solve. The one complaint I will agree with, is vic giving us "two weeks to live" when you can run around for in game months doing random crap, and nothing bad happening. A plot like "you're dying, do something quick!" is better suited to a smaller game, where logically, the devs can add a timer to the main quest, counting down to "you die at zero". Like Pathfinder Kingmaker. It's a risky, somewhat unpopular choice to be sure, but I feel it's the only choice you can make without it getting silly. So if your making a big sandbox game like this, where the whole point is the take your time and enjoy the experience, you cant have the main plot holding a Sword of Damocles over you the whole time. However, I can't really can't honestly see the issue with the actual writing, aside from what I said above. I don't feel like V was re-written at all, because V is so blank and generic there isn't anything to change, any of those outcomes seem logical, depending on the mental state of the player and or how you're RPing V to feel.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2021 17:52:35 GMT
It was their mutual goal, as friends. Never at any point when Dex asks you if you wanna go out in a blaze of glory, can you say otherwise. The best you can do is say "No such thing as a peaceful end in this city", which is not a rejection, simply a cynical doubt. I completely disagree with your interpretation. By your logic their should be no other endings but Sun. You can disagree all you want, but V never expresses any other desire, of any kind, other than "Not dying". So you really can't say V was re-written, because V had no stated goals for there to be a contradiction.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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1,632
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 28, 2021 18:04:18 GMT
I completely disagree with your interpretation. By your logic their should be no other endings but Sun. You can disagree all you want, but V never expresses any other desire, of any kind, other than "Not dying". So you really can't say V was re-written, because V had no stated goals for there to be a contradiction. Don't agree that characterisation options force alll V's to want that. Even if i did V's clearly allowed not to come the depressed scumbag A-hole of afterlife in Star ending just from getting off on killing some nomads
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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1,632
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
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wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 28, 2021 18:14:38 GMT
This isn’t true. There are many cyberpunk stories that have happy endings. And many more that are at least more hopeful than this game was. That is true, some are. I stand corrected on that. However, I don't really understand what you people expected, when the whole plot is your neurons literally being devoured by nanomachines. That is so far beyond the power of medicine to solve. Well i would say that's the writers fault. They wrote a character and only allowed them a single goal, survival, which they snatched away at the last minute in all endings after offering options. First and foremost that doesn't enthuse me to jump back into their massive sandbox (even exlcuding fact i consider the endings atrociously railroaded from a character POV). They could have given V other motivations(smash arasaka & die etc) and just how to use their remaining time but they didn't.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2021 19:22:36 GMT
That is true, some are. I stand corrected on that. However, I don't really understand what you people expected, when the whole plot is your neurons literally being devoured by nanomachines. That is so far beyond the power of medicine to solve. Well i would say that's the writers fault. They wrote a character and only allowed them a single goal, survival, which they snatched away at the last minute in all endings after offering options. First and foremost that doesn't enthuse me to jump back into their massive sandbox (even exlcuding fact i consider the endings atrociously railroaded from a character POV). They could have given V other motivations(smash arasaka & die etc) and just how to use their remaining time but they didn't.
I think the message of the game was very obvious. Sometimes you just can't win. Period. They all but spelled it out for you in the last scene with Vicktor. You ask him why he keeps watching that old recorded boxing match. He says he keeps looking at it, wondering where his guy went wrong. He determined his only mistake, was getting into the ring with a bigger opponent. That is CD's analogy for the entire story. You stepped into a world beyond your ken, and you pay the price for it. That is the message. You can like or dislike that, but you not liking the point of the story is not a writing mistake. Their under no obligation to write a story that you personally enjoy.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2021 19:37:32 GMT
You can disagree all you want, but V never expresses any other desire, of any kind, other than "Not dying". So you really can't say V was re-written, because V had no stated goals for there to be a contradiction. Don't agree that characterisation options force alll V's to want that. Even if i did V's clearly allowed not to come the depressed scumbag A-hole of afterlife in Star ending just from getting off on killing some nomads There is no characterization options my guy. That is my point. V is a blank character, with no goals at all. So you complaining that V is being re-written somehow is just ridiculous, because that would require V to have an original goal in order for it to be changed.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 28, 2021 19:52:48 GMT
This isn’t true. There are many cyberpunk stories that have happy endings. And many more that are at least more hopeful than this game was. That is true, some are. I stand corrected on that. However, I don't really understand what you people expected, when the whole plot is your neurons literally being devoured by nanomachines. That is so far beyond the power of medicine to solve. The one complaint I will agree with, is vic giving us "two weeks to live" when you can run around for in game months doing random crap, and nothing bad happening. A plot like "you're dying, do something quick!" is better suited to a smaller game, where logically, the devs can add a timer to the main quest, counting down to "you die at zero". Like Pathfinder Kingmaker. It's a risky, somewhat unpopular choice to be sure, but I feel it's the only choice you can make without it getting silly. So if your making a big sandbox game like this, where the whole point is the take your time and enjoy the experience, you cant have the main plot holding a Sword of Damocles over you the whole time. However, I can't really can't honestly see the issue with the actual writing, aside from what I said above. I don't feel like V was re-written at all, because V is so blank and generic there isn't anything to change, any of those outcomes seem logical, depending on the mental state of the player and or how you're RPing V to feel. I was mainly just saying that bad endings is t universal to the cyberpunk genre. Also I’ve mostly come to terms with the endings, at least the Devil and Temperance ones. V achieves their goal in surviving, either living in Mikoshi (and killing Johnny) or living in cyberspace, which as a Netrunner seems fine. the only downside to that ending is Johnny getting a body, and potentially the Alt thing but that’s left pretty vague so I don’t think she nom nom noms you up like the others. Mainly I want a post-main story expansion with a new ending simply because I think there is tons of potential with V even after the main story that can apply to all endings (bar Suicide).
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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1,632
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 28, 2021 20:04:30 GMT
Well i would say that's the writers fault. They wrote a character and only allowed them a single goal, survival, which they snatched away at the last minute in all endings after offering options. First and foremost that doesn't enthuse me to jump back into their massive sandbox (even exlcuding fact i consider the endings atrociously railroaded from a character POV). They could have given V other motivations(smash arasaka & die etc) and just how to use their remaining time but they didn't.
I think the message of the game was very obvious. Sometimes you just can't win. Period. They all but spelled it out for you in the last scene with Vicktor. You ask him why he keeps watching that old recorded boxing match. He says he keeps looking at it, wondering where his guy went wrong. He determined his only mistake, was getting into the ring with a bigger opponent. That is CD's analogy for the entire story. You stepped into a world beyond your ken, and you pay the price for it. That is the message. You can like or dislike that, but you not liking the point of the story is not a writing mistake. Their under no obligation to write a story that you personally enjoy. I'm allowed to hold the opinion that it is a writing mistake. They as devs are of course free to think grimdark where every choice lead to a message of the futility of playing said game is message they wanted. Just as Bioware could have ignored the ME3 ending hatred completely. As a consumer my sole power is over future money and my feedback.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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1,632
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 28, 2021 20:11:15 GMT
Don't agree that characterisation options force alll V's to want that. Even if i did V's clearly allowed not to come the depressed scumbag A-hole of afterlife in Star ending just from getting off on killing some nomads There is no characterization options my guy. That is my point. V is a blank character, with no goals at all. So you complaining that V is being re-written somehow is just ridiculous, because that would require V to have an original goal in order for it to be changed. There are dialogue choices and mission choices in the game so there clearly is characterization options. If they wanted no characterization they should have removed them as well as removing the silly rooftop ending mechanic and had just a single epilogue for the single version of V wanting only to be a legend that you pretend there is.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 28, 2021 20:12:58 GMT
I completely disagree with your interpretation. By your logic their should be no other endings but Sun. You can disagree all you want, but V never expresses any other desire, of any kind, other than "Not dying". So you really can't say V was re-written, because V had no stated goals for there to be a contradiction. You can choose to reject that goal through dialogue by dismissing it as being nothing but a fantasy when you speak to the doll at Clouds. I always considered it a moment where you can basically change your character’s motivation.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 29, 2021 4:27:47 GMT
I think the message of the game was very obvious. Sometimes you just can't win. Period. They all but spelled it out for you in the last scene with Vicktor. You ask him why he keeps watching that old recorded boxing match. He says he keeps looking at it, wondering where his guy went wrong. He determined his only mistake, was getting into the ring with a bigger opponent. That is CD's analogy for the entire story. You stepped into a world beyond your ken, and you pay the price for it. That is the message. You can like or dislike that, but you not liking the point of the story is not a writing mistake. Their under no obligation to write a story that you personally enjoy. I'm allowed to hold the opinion that it is a writing mistake. They as devs are of course free to think grimdark where every choice lead to a message of the futility of playing said game is message they wanted. Just as Bioware could have ignored the ME3 ending hatred completely. As a consumer my sole power is over future money and my feedback.
It's not a mistake. Your opinion is you don't like it. Opinion does not = fact. A mistake would be a factual problem, like the 2 weeks to live thing.
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Mar 15, 2017 23:07:06 GMT
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therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 29, 2021 4:29:50 GMT
You can disagree all you want, but V never expresses any other desire, of any kind, other than "Not dying". So you really can't say V was re-written, because V had no stated goals for there to be a contradiction. You can choose to reject that goal through dialogue by dismissing it as being nothing but a fantasy when you speak to the doll at Clouds. I always considered it a moment where you can basically change your character’s motivation. Yes, you can reject it, but your given no real options, in character, to replace it with. V is a blank.
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