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Post by mtheillusive on Dec 22, 2020 3:53:02 GMT
I was looking at the trailer, and thinking of whether or not the next game will have a playable Shepard or Ryder, and whether it will take place right after the Reaper War or in the far future like Andromeda. I also was thinking of all the speculation going on...is the ice planet the same one the SSV Normandy SR1 crashed on? What Mass Relay is that? Ark 6? Etc. Then I thought about how Andromeda's initial scene (boarding and leaving) takes place in 2185 (either before or early into Mass Effect 2). AND THEN IT HIT ME.... There is a small time period that stands out: the events AFTER Mass Effect 2 but BEFORE Shepard goes back to Earth to be put in the brig (so after a certain Relay was destroyed and before the Quarian or other extra Arks left out). What if the new Mass Effect were to start with a mission (or a few missions) with Shepard and Liara and crew, taking place BEFORE Shepard returns to Earth. As a game theres a character creator to start if off for new players, or (depending on the remaster) a carry over import with the same look. Or just a choice between male or female. This is for Shepard. At the end of that/those missions, which is basically an intro to the game, after a series of events that (whether shown or not) will lead to Shepard finally turning himself in... A SECOND character creator shows up...with choices. This will determine the main game. These choices include whether or not you chose the Destroy, Control, Synthesis, or even Refuse endings (perhaps even more if the remaster data, or even the original saves if you have an Xbox, are imported). And this second character creator is basically for Ryder (and possibly the sibling as well). If you choose Destroy and Shepard lives, perhaps he/she may go into cryo sleep to help out in the future (Milky Way and/or Andromeda). Perhaps they need to put them into said cyro for Shepard to survive after the Crucible firing. If you choose Control, Reaper God Shepard heads to Andromeda to help out and solve bigger mysteries/problems? Perhaps becomes THE problem? Etc.etc with potential possibilities with Synthesis or Refuse (through no Shepard at all in those choices post the initial mission) Basically the primary story in the future will be affected by what you decided, but in a way where any ending and the choices can fit. Also, lets say in your ME Trilogy decisions Liara dies. Even THAT can be recognized, with someone else (possibly someone she was a mentor to) taking her role (if she was otherwise alive) in the future. From a gameplay standpoint as well, starting with Shepard and whatever singular class you choose (Soldier, Sentinel, Adept, Vanguard, Infiltrator, Engineer) will be an introductory gameplay to the individual fighting classes, while Ryder will of course be on their "I can do em all" mode when they how up. In the end, all player decisions will still be relevant in the new game. ME Trilogy fans get their sequel, ME Andromeda fans get their sequel, and BioWare and EA make A LOT of money
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Post by mgsmsc on Dec 22, 2020 9:38:12 GMT
I quite like the idea of a sort of an origin story to flesh out something happening in Andromeda. I'm not sure how much the original characters should be involved though - honestly I feel the trilogy is better left alone. Perhaps they could begin or flashback to events surrounding the benefactor and try to build on that story.
I like your ideas about building flexible gameplay and storylines but in the end I think it would be too much of an undertaking to create such a varied universe in a meaningful way. Call me cynical but I think its more likely that decisions might be contrived away. The genophage cure could fail no matter what you chose, owing to Reaper involvement or those crafty Pyjak-Salarians having a plan B,C,D etc. The Quarians/Geth can be gotten rid off by virtue of them being a long way away (galactically speaking) and broken relays. Not that I am endorsing anything of that nature. From what I have read the destroy ending is the one garnering the most interest to be built on, apparently it was a popular choice.
It would be a shame to write off the other endings though. I find myself leaning towards a bit of synthesis these days.
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Post by Spectr61 on Dec 22, 2020 14:33:52 GMT
Ever heard of Rube Goldberg?
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 22, 2020 15:43:43 GMT
This approach would turn me off for it is too much like the approach they took with Andromeda where they wanted to give everyone what they wanted and missed the mark on what made BioWare games work.
I think the main story needs to be kept simple and straight forward so won't hit the messiness of trying to do everything at once and this sounds like there are going to be major alterations to how the main story would work out based on the endings of the Shepard Trilogy. Which is something BioWare has never done, they have done everything they could to minimize the impact of the major choices from the prior games. The other problem is this is only really directed at the people that have finished Mass Effect 3 and care about the endings so I doubt that is a majority of players.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Dec 27, 2020 8:13:02 GMT
Ever heard of Rube Goldberg? Yes.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Dec 27, 2020 8:13:32 GMT
What if the new Mass Effect were to start with a mission (or a few missions) with Shepard and Liara and crew, taking place BEFORE Shepard returns to Earth. As a game theres a character creator to start if off for new players, or (depending on the remaster) a carry over import with the same look. Or just a choice between male or female. This is for Shepard. At the end of that/those missions, which is basically an intro to the game, after a series of events that (whether shown or not) will lead to Shepard finally turning himself in... A SECOND character creator shows up...with choices. This will determine the main game. These choices include whether or not you chose the Destroy, Control, Synthesis, or even Refuse endings (perhaps even more if the remaster data, or even the original saves if you have an Xbox, are imported). And this second character creator is basically for Ryder (and possibly the sibling as well).If you choose Destroy and Shepard lives, perhaps he/she may go into cryo sleep to help out in the future (Milky Way and/or Andromeda). Perhaps they need to put them into said cyro for Shepard to survive after the Crucible firing. If you choose Control, Reaper God Shepard heads to Andromeda to help out and solve bigger mysteries/problems? Perhaps becomes THE problem? Etc.etc with potential possibilities with Synthesis or Refuse (through no Shepard at all in those choices post the initial mission) Basically the primary story in the future will be affected by what you decided, but in a way where any ending and the choices can fit. Also, lets say in your ME Trilogy decisions Liara dies. Even THAT can be recognized, with someone else (possibly someone she was a mentor to) taking her role (if she was otherwise alive) in the future. From a gameplay standpoint as well, starting with Shepard and whatever singular class you choose (Soldier, Sentinel, Adept, Vanguard, Infiltrator, Engineer) will be an introductory gameplay to the individual fighting classes, while Ryder will of course be on their "I can do em all" mode when they how up. In the end, all player decisions will still be relevant in the new game. ME Trilogy fans get their sequel, ME Andromeda fans get their sequel, and BioWare and EA make A LOT of money I find this idea... interesting. Though it would be a lot of programming for TWO character creators and TWO playable characters... Not to mention modders will eventually figure out how to use Shepard through the main game... I would modify only five things: 1. Do as you suggest with an intro mission but make it be for another N7 character that you control instead of Shepard.
2. Make the character creator be FOR this character -THIS will be our character and not a second CC for Shepard. 3. Have Shepard in the mission as voice only or as a NPC but with full armor -including helmet -don't want to offend customizers.
4. Make the mission dialog create the choices of the galaxy state including Shepard gender if necessary -if not in the CC. 5. Maybe have your N7 character be a renegade who believes Shepard's story and wants to break him out of jail or any other intro story-lines.
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Post by Spectr61 on Dec 27, 2020 11:44:40 GMT
Ever heard of Rube Goldberg? Yes.
Perfect.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 28, 2020 13:41:39 GMT
Frankly it's sloppy and cheap and I would hate it, but I doubt BioWare could do any better after the massive hole they've written themselves into, and there's a lot of people who just want Shepard and friends back and don't care how it happens, so... whatever.
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Post by cptdata on Dec 28, 2020 22:47:29 GMT
Frankly it's sloppy and cheap and I would hate it, but I doubt BioWare could do any better after the massive hole they've written themselves into, and there's a lot of people who just want Shepard and friends back and don't care how it happens, so... whatever. Do it right or don't do it at all.
I don't see any chance Shepard'n'Co will come back, due the fact there are three endings (four, if you consider "Refusal" as a viable ending) - Bioware can't do it, period. The ONLY option they MIGHT to it is to retcon the entire final section of ME3 - not in ME5, but in that Legendary Edition. Read: the endings won't be there anymore. The game ends, and it does end with a victory of the Citadel species, but HOW it ends isn't set in stone yet.
Now it's up to you if you like that idea.
Again: do it right or don't do it at all. In worst case, the endings are cut and somehow the fleet can deal with the Reaper armada alone, the ground forces are able to take down anything below - you get it. If the Reapers can be defeated by conventional means, they never were a massive threat to begin with.
A bit of "space magic" may be required to deal with them. And now it's up to Bioware if they remove the final decision and pick one of three which then gets altered by your war score. I think "Control" is right out, but "Synthesis" and "Destruction" are valid picks for them.
Most likely, however, Bioware won't touch ME!Legendary endings and do the retcon in ME5, which is, in my eyes, a wasted opportunity to set things right.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Dec 31, 2020 13:25:32 GMT
The other problem is this is only really directed at the people that have finished Mass Effect 3 and care about the endings so I doubt that is a majority of players. True. The majority of players don't seem to care about Mass Effect at all.
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Post by mtheillusive on Dec 31, 2020 15:34:39 GMT
I definitely understand mixed opinions about it, but it's literally the only way I could think of to keep all choices canon to the respective player. I think making ANY one ending the "canon" one ruins the trilogy as an RPG. There is no TRUE canon (endings, Male Shep vs Fem Shep, etc), the canon is what the player decides it is through their choices. This was a way to work with that while still keeping things fresh, regardless as to if we start with Shepard, Ryder, or a new character altogether...or even all three. Also, there are hints an Andromeda and beyond that this may have potentially been in the works for awhile. We know that there is some sort of "Create/Share Your Story" thing on either the website or some app made by Bioware/EA (I haven't used it but I know it exists). And Liara is pretty prevalent in Andromeda through the logs: So connecting the two galaxies in the future seemed to be the natural progression of the story. Question is how? I think if they take their time, and with the Xbox Series and PS5 out, they may be able to make something amazing that will both blow everyone's minds away AND still give way for all endings to be taken into consideration. It may seem difficult. May seem impossible to some. But it is only impossible until it isn't And knowing that this is THE game that may likely single handedly decide the fate of Bioware...I think they are going to put out the best game they can. If they don't...they die in the EA wastelands. So I'm optimistic
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Cyberstrike on Dec 31, 2020 16:05:46 GMT
I definitely understand mixed opinions about it, but it's literally the only way I could think of to keep all choices canon to the respective player. I think making ANY one ending the "canon" one ruins the trilogy as an RPG. There is no TRUE canon (endings, Male Shep vs Fem Shep, etc), the canon is what the player decides it is through their choices. This was a way to work with that while still keeping things fresh, regardless as to if we start with Shepard, Ryder, or a new character altogether...or even all three.
Ubisoft finally had a female and male protagonist in Assassin's Creed: Odyssey and while they never said which one was the canon going forward in that game in Assassin's Creed: Valhalla they state unambiguously in game and later on social media that it's Kassandra the female character that is the canon Eagle Bearer in the series.
Canon is decided by the creators and/or owner of media and NOT BY THE FANS!
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Post by mtheillusive on Dec 31, 2020 16:58:12 GMT
I definitely understand mixed opinions about it, but it's literally the only way I could think of to keep all choices canon to the respective player. I think making ANY one ending the "canon" one ruins the trilogy as an RPG. There is no TRUE canon (endings, Male Shep vs Fem Shep, etc), the canon is what the player decides it is through their choices. This was a way to work with that while still keeping things fresh, regardless as to if we start with Shepard, Ryder, or a new character altogether...or even all three.
Ubisoft finally had a female and male protagonist in Assassin's Creed: Odyssey and while they never said which one was the canon going forward in that game in Assassin's Creed: Valhalla they state unambiguously in game and later on social media that it's Kassandra the female character that is the canon Eagle Bearer in the series.
Canon is decided by the creators and/or owner of media and NOT BY THE FANS!
I'm well aware....and Assassin's Creed also isn't a RPG in the same sense of Mass Effect or Saint's Row In an RPG canon IS decided by the player's choices in game. Take that away and there is literally no point in making it an RPG. Hell the ending (snow planet with the kid) pretty much has the adult say there is no true canon and that all options are equally viable (not those exact words though). You get rid of that and Mass Effect is no longer Mass Effect in spirit. Its just another action game.
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Post by mtheillusive on Jan 1, 2021 14:26:18 GMT
What if the new Mass Effect were to start with a mission (or a few missions) with Shepard and Liara and crew, taking place BEFORE Shepard returns to Earth. As a game theres a character creator to start if off for new players, or (depending on the remaster) a carry over import with the same look. Or just a choice between male or female. This is for Shepard. At the end of that/those missions, which is basically an intro to the game, after a series of events that (whether shown or not) will lead to Shepard finally turning himself in... A SECOND character creator shows up...with choices. This will determine the main game. These choices include whether or not you chose the Destroy, Control, Synthesis, or even Refuse endings (perhaps even more if the remaster data, or even the original saves if you have an Xbox, are imported). And this second character creator is basically for Ryder (and possibly the sibling as well).If you choose Destroy and Shepard lives, perhaps he/she may go into cryo sleep to help out in the future (Milky Way and/or Andromeda). Perhaps they need to put them into said cyro for Shepard to survive after the Crucible firing. If you choose Control, Reaper God Shepard heads to Andromeda to help out and solve bigger mysteries/problems? Perhaps becomes THE problem? Etc.etc with potential possibilities with Synthesis or Refuse (through no Shepard at all in those choices post the initial mission) Basically the primary story in the future will be affected by what you decided, but in a way where any ending and the choices can fit. Also, lets say in your ME Trilogy decisions Liara dies. Even THAT can be recognized, with someone else (possibly someone she was a mentor to) taking her role (if she was otherwise alive) in the future. From a gameplay standpoint as well, starting with Shepard and whatever singular class you choose (Soldier, Sentinel, Adept, Vanguard, Infiltrator, Engineer) will be an introductory gameplay to the individual fighting classes, while Ryder will of course be on their "I can do em all" mode when they how up. In the end, all player decisions will still be relevant in the new game. ME Trilogy fans get their sequel, ME Andromeda fans get their sequel, and BioWare and EA make A LOT of money I find this idea... interesting. Though it would be a lot of programming for TWO character creators and TWO playable characters... Not to mention modders will eventually figure out how to use Shepard through the main game... I would modify only five things: 1. Do as you suggest with an intro mission but make it be for another N7 character that you control instead of Shepard.
2. Make the character creator be FOR this character -THIS will be our character and not a second CC for Shepard. 3. Have Shepard in the mission as voice only or as a NPC but with full armor -including helmet -don't want to offend customizers.
4. Make the mission dialog create the choices of the galaxy state including Shepard gender if necessary -if not in the CC. 5. Maybe have your N7 character be a renegade who believes Shepard's story and wants to break him out of jail or any other intro story-lines.
Technically they had a double character creator in Andromeda (brother and sister, with the sibling being playable in one mission. This is that but on a bigger scale. It just wasn't two separate creators though). I do like your idea though! There's a lot of way to approach ME5
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 2, 2021 19:44:24 GMT
Doing that would class the remaster into a remake though.
What would most likely happen is that MENext will completely avoid telling you which ending is canon and just handwave the dead Reapers you'll find as ones that were destroyed in the war.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 2, 2021 19:47:20 GMT
MENext will completely avoid telling you which ending is canon It might not avoid it.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 2, 2021 19:50:07 GMT
MENext will completely avoid telling you which ending is canon It might not avoid it. Sure, if Bio wants to dig deeper into that pit that they've been digging themselves into.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 2, 2021 19:55:23 GMT
Sure, if Bio wants to dig deeper into that pit that they've been digging themselves into. I think people would have to see it for themselves, in this case. This is a move that, I believe, will create some controversy, before launch, from a certain crowd and once the game releases, people will just forget it ever happened. They're free to do it.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 2, 2021 19:59:31 GMT
Sure, if Bio wants to dig deeper into that pit that they've been digging themselves into. I think people would have to see it for themselves, in this case. This is a move that, I believe, will create some controversy, before launch, from a certain crowd and once the game releases, people will just forget it ever happened. They're free to do it. That's one way of how it'll play out. The other... well, you can probably guess how it'll play out.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 2, 2021 20:01:29 GMT
That's one way of how it'll play out. The other... well, you can probably guess how it'll play out. It might be more palatable than people think.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 2, 2021 20:03:59 GMT
That's one way of how it'll play out. The other... well, you can probably guess how it'll play out. It might be more palatable than people think. Maybe, maybe not. All I know is I'm staying as far away from the backlash while seating in the best seats to watch it. 😉
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jan 2, 2021 20:10:36 GMT
Maybe, maybe not. All I know is I'm staying as far away from the backlash while seating in the best seats to watch it. 😉 I think a lot of people will be on board with it.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 2, 2021 20:12:58 GMT
Maybe, maybe not. All I know is I'm staying as far away from the backlash while seating in the best seats to watch it. 😉 I think a lot of people will be on board with it. Come 2020 whenever, we'll see. (At least that'll give me plenty of time to stock up on popcorn and vodka 😉).
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Post by Phantom on Jan 2, 2021 20:50:30 GMT
I think a lot of people will be on board with it. Come 2020 whenever, we'll see. (At least that'll give me plenty of time to stock up on popcorn and vodka 😉). can i join you?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 2, 2021 20:56:26 GMT
Come 2020 whenever, we'll see. (At least that'll give me plenty of time to stock up on popcorn and vodka 😉). can i join you? Of course! There's plenty of seating for the ME slapfest show of MENext. 😁 But be sure to book soon, 'cause booking a seat will go quickly!😉
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