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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by theascendent on Apr 2, 2021 22:27:53 GMT
Never trust any Qunari. That does double, nay triple for Ben-Hassrath. They think Thedas is in Star Trek, but it is really in Star Wars. more like Westeros but your point still stands. My point is they try to apply logical arguments to a setting that is inherently illogical. In Star Trek almost everything is explained via 'science' while in Star Wars 'science' exists but next to the power and influence of the Force (magic) it is irrelevant.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 2, 2021 22:56:28 GMT
Honest to a fault? They allied with the Inquisition and then used that partnership to infiltrate the organization and carry out the Dragon’s Breath operation. They also signed the Llomerryn Accords knowing full well that they would one day break the truce. The Qunari think nothing of lying to bas because the end goal is all that matters. Never trust any Qunari. That does double, nay triple for Ben-Hassrath. They think Thedas is in Star Trek, but it is really in Star Wars. They actually are kinda like Romulans, albeit with more of a religious motivation. The Ben-Hassrath are not unlike the Tal Shiar. The alliance was to defeat Corypheus, which we did without betrayal from them. They honored that alliance. The events of Trespasser were after the alliance was concluded, so at that point the continuing to work together was a courtesy not an obligation. When did they ever straight up lie?
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Post by necrowaif on Apr 3, 2021 0:21:18 GMT
When the Arishok told the Viscount of Kirkwall that a ship was coming to get them. There was no ship coming; the Arishok was stranded until he recovered the Tome of Koslun.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 3, 2021 0:33:54 GMT
When the Arishok told the Viscount of Kirkwall that a ship was coming to get them. I don’t see how that was a lie, since once he retrieved the tone they would have a ship get them. They are certainly tricky with their words, but that’s not the same as lying. They remind me of myths like the Jinn, where you have to be very careful with your words.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Apr 3, 2021 0:50:32 GMT
When the Arishok told the Viscount of Kirkwall that a ship was coming to get them. I don’t see how that was a lie, since once he retrieved the tone they would have a ship get them. They are certainly tricky with their words, but that’s not the same as lying. They remind me of myths like the Jinn, where you have to be very careful with your words. I mean, it may not be a lie, but it certainly deceptive.
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Post by ellehaym on Apr 3, 2021 1:05:41 GMT
The Qun has the name "Hissrad" Meaning keeper of illusions or liar. I supposed one of their roles is to keep the illusion that the Qunari are keeping their promises. Outside of being spies, maybe Hissrads are responsible for political correspondence as it is their role within the Qun.
When the Arishok attacked Kirkwall he really went rogue and 2 of the remaining Triumvirate went to neutral place in Rivain where they made a formal apology.
Compare that to what happened in after Trespasser where there was no mention of either of them apologizing for Viddasala's actions outside of that letter claiming they were rogue.
Also in DAO Sten says that the Qun don't believe in treaties with bas and only signed the Llomeyn accord (a piece of paper to them) to pacify the south and I don't think it was ever said that any Triumvirate signed it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 3, 2021 8:32:28 GMT
When did they ever straight up lie? I would say when they wrote the letter to Josephine concerning the actions of the Viddasala not being approved by them. Although I will admit that there is a degree of equivocation in the reply which means they are not outright lying. Here is what they wrote if you failed to save the dreadnought in DAI and Iron Bull went Tal'Vashoth: To Ambassador Josephine Montilyet of the Inquisition,
The Triumvirate of the Qunari people wishes to assure you that despite the loss of the dreadnought Berethlok and its crew of one hundred souls in a failed joint mission with the Inquisition two years past, military action has not been approved against the Inquisition. No one in Par Vollen has authorized actions of any kind involving the Exalted Council. Nor will they.
We are seeking out the Ben-Hassrath priest who appears to be leading this operation without our consent. Once she is located, we assure you that these hostile actions will cease.Notice how here they first emphasise the treachery of the Inquisition in that joint operation, essentially making the point that the Inquisition were the first to break faith with the Qun. Then note how they say that "military action" has not been approved against the "Inquisition" or "Exalted Countil". That is of course true. This is a covert operation by a branch of the Ariqun, not the Arishok. Had it been successful, that is when the military action would have begun. Also the Gaatlok in the Winter Palace was intended to kill the Orlesian leadership, just as the Gaatlok in other palaces across the south and so it wasn't specifically directed at the Inquisition or Exalted Council but rather using them to aid their plan. Now look at the letter they sent if you were still in an alliance with them (apparently Salasari is the official Qunari term for the Triumverate): The Salasari have no knowledge of any operations occurring in Halamshiral, and are investigating your claims of gaatlok being used in the South. We regret that we are unable to divulge any information regarding current Ben-Hassrath activities at this time, but we hasten to assure you that our partnership with the Inquisition is one we value highly.This is even more of an equivocation. It is highly likely that having originally approved the actions of the Viddasala, back when the breach originally occurred, the leadership did leave it up to her to operate as she saw fit on the ground. However, I have repeatedly pointed out on these boards that the Dragon's Breath plot to take over the south could never have advanced as far as it did without leadership approval because its success depended on acting swiftly to take over whilst the various countries were in turmoil having had their leadership removed. This would not have been possible if the army was only mobilised and moved into place after the event. Once again, though, the leadership only mention the specific location of Halamshiral rather then the overall plan. Note they also refuse to divulge any information about current Ben-Hassrath activities, yet it is a branch of the Ben-Hassrath that is responsible for the Dragon's Breath, and unlike the alternative letter, they do not actually disown the Viddasala at all. I do not doubt they value their partnership with the Inquisition when it has been so useful in furthering their own aims. So, personally, I would always read between the lines of any declaration made by the Qun, no matter whether we are dealing with a specific branch or the Salasari. They may not outright lie as such but they equivocate like crazy and go to great lengths to avoid saying anything that could be perceived as a lie. Strangely enough they remind me a lot of Solas in this respect. They only truly respect their own; they use non-People when it suits them and then discard them when they are no longer useful; and they cleverly manipulate words so they make the listener appear to be in the wrong for mistrusting them. I think that could be part of the reason he so loathes them. It is not just the denial of freedom but that their thoughts and actions are so very close to his own that it is like looking in a mirror and seeing a distorted reflection of himself.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 3, 2021 9:15:29 GMT
That letter has always confused me, since you make good points yet on the other hand it is noted that letter was intercepted by Viddasala before reaching Josephine, and once intercepted was not received well since it was crumpled up and thrown away which suggests a genuineness to it. Could even be a cause of this split among the Triumverate, since now put into this position some see it as may as well launch the war while others see that as a mistake and instead the focus should be on Solas. But that’s giving them too much credit under the new boss’s views on the group so no reason to humor such thoughts since come DA4 they’ll all be genocidal monsters massacring civilians to make precious Tevinter look nice.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 3, 2021 10:43:57 GMT
it is noted that letter was intercepted by Viddasala before reaching Josephine, and once intercepted was not received well since it was crumpled up and thrown away which suggests a genuineness to it. It is also possible that she was sent a copy of the letter sent to Josephine, possibly by someone in the Ben-Hassrath sympathetic to her position. Actually it seems odd that Josephine's letter to Par Vollen was also intercepted by the Viddasala, in which case they would never have received it either. So it does seem as though she was always included in communications that were taking place but if she was not acting with their approval, why would they still allow the messages to be transmitted via her group? If they knew where she was in order to send messages via her officially, surely they would monitor what happened to those messages after she had read them? Was the message itself their instruction to her to cease her operation before passing it on to Josephine? I do have a tendency to overthink things but that particular incident did have a lot of holes in it, as Merrill would say.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 3, 2021 11:05:41 GMT
Could even be a cause of this split among the Triumverate, since now put into this position some see it as may as well launch the war while others see that as a mistake and instead the focus should be on Solas. I still don't believe this idea of a split. Maybe that is the story the Salasari are putting out to confuse their enemies, particularly Solas, but I cannot believe the Antaam, in other words the Arishok, is acting totally independently of the rest of the leadership. After the previous debacle with the former Arishok in Kirkwall, you would think they would be extra careful not to allow such a situation to repeat itself. I'm particularly curious about Rasaan. Not only did it seem odd she was not with the Arishok in Kirkwall and didn't attempt to join him, even though her role is to be his adviser on behalf of the Ariqun, but in Tevinter Nights she was once again off doing something independently of the Arishok. However, her markings indicated that she was still part of the Antaam. So had she gone rogue along with the Arishok or does this indicate that in fact their whole operation is a carefully coordinated effort to counter the Dread Wolf? But that’s giving them too much credit under the new boss’s views on the group so no reason to humor such thoughts since come DA4 they’ll all be genocidal monsters massacring civilians to make precious Tevinter look nice. I doubt that they will do that. After all, the fact that we are being sold the idea of a split in the Qun, with the Antaam acting independently of the rest, suggests that even if the military are going to be depicted as ruthless and brutal, the alternative view of the Qun is also going to be presented by those aligned with Par Vollen and that includes the majority of the Ben-Hassrath. Saabrak did not approve of Bas-Taar's actions, Gatt seemed to present a very civilised and merciful attitude towards the citizens of Tevinter involved in his story and I have no doubt that should Tallis turn up again, she will also be demonstrating the better traits of the Qun. I'm still with those who consider that the current writers are trying to soften the impression of the mainstream Qun on Par Vollen, so that they do present an attractive alternative to Tevinter and in fact Solas as well. Clearly there are many Tevinter mages who would probably welcome unrestricted access to the Fade and are arrogant enough to think they could avoid or deal with the negative aspects of Solas plan, whereas the Qun do seem to be on the side of those who think that it would be a totally bad idea and in fact if anything it would be better if the Veil was strengthened. Personally, I think both extremes would likely have bad results for large swathes of the population and thus it would be better to maintain the status quo.
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Post by Solas on Apr 6, 2021 12:23:04 GMT
[walks in late with starbucks] GREAT ISSUE
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Post by Rascoth on Apr 6, 2021 12:37:44 GMT
[walks in late with starbucks] GREAT ISSUE Just replace "queen" with "egg"
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Post by Iddy on Apr 8, 2021 19:09:18 GMT
I don't know about you guys, but I'm always getting Tessa and Vaea mixed up. Then I realize, "Oh, no pointed ears".
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Post by necrowaif on Apr 8, 2021 19:33:16 GMT
Between the similar hairstyles and skin colour, it's an easy mistake to make. However, Tessa wears a headband.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 8, 2021 19:51:08 GMT
They have different color schemes in their outfits, so I never had an issue even when they’re super far away so can’t see all the details in the outfits or faces.
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Post by samurailink on Apr 8, 2021 22:41:10 GMT
The shot where Tessa is riding on a horse and says she's going off for info I did have to re-read thinking it was Vaea. But I think that's partially because after Knight Errant Tessa doesn't do anything for ages so I just assumed it's Vaea without looking at each picture for super long.
There was also that one slave in Blue Wraith who looks exactly like Calix.
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Post by necrowaif on Apr 8, 2021 23:04:40 GMT
There was also that one slave in Blue Wraith who looks exactly like Calix. Correction: he looked exactly like Calix. Now he more closely resembles a bowl of chunky salsa.
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Post by Solas on Apr 14, 2021 0:14:46 GMT
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Apr 16, 2021 14:58:49 GMT
I have a feeling Ser Aaron isn't getting out of this comic book series alive
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Post by Solas on Apr 16, 2021 15:32:10 GMT
wonder if there will also be a preview for DF#2
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Post by necrowaif on Apr 16, 2021 15:46:42 GMT
If there is, it will likely come out the week before release.
Interestingly, they haven’t even shown the cover art for Issue 3, which suggests it’ll be a spoiler.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Apr 16, 2021 16:29:35 GMT
I have a feeling Ser Aaron isn't getting out of this comic book series alive Isn´t this an old & boring cliché that this kind of character have to die?
Maybe i am cruel and maybe i want a Calpernia romance but i still prefer that Marius is the who dies.
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Apr 16, 2021 17:01:04 GMT
I have a feeling Ser Aaron isn't getting out of this comic book series alive Isn´t this an old & boring cliché that this kind of character have to die?
Maybe i am cruel and maybe i want a Calpernia romance but i still prefer that Marius is the who dies. Aaron as a character is an old and boring cliché though - a distant, closed off to the world drunk going on about past glories much to the embarrassment of his squire. Maybe it's because I think Vaea is a cutie but I much prefer it when the series is focsed around her - helps too that's she around the same age range of the other characters outside of Fenris.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 16, 2021 17:06:02 GMT
I suspect Aaron is going to sacrifice himself to save them, just like he tried to do with Cailan. This in turn will make Vaea a darker character seeing her father/support figure die, making her more broody, drop her no killing rule, etc.
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Post by necrowaif on Apr 16, 2021 17:09:05 GMT
"Well, as an older mentor figure, the most likely scenario is that I'd return only to be randomly killed by an enemy of yours so that you can cradle my dying body while swearing revenge — so don't take it personally if I say that I sincerely hope we never cross paths again." -Julio Scoundrel, Order of the Stick (Mind you, this got subverted. Julio did show up again in defiance of the trope and actually did survive.)
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