The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 13, 2021 23:07:34 GMT Phantom likes this

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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Mar 13, 2021 23:07:34 GMT

Mar 13, 2021 21:49:47 GMT samurailink said:

So an epilogue slide (which we're told to take as rumors because so many were retconned) wouldn't be enough to put down the dwarf.

You are right that Bioware could ignore his death and retcon his survival again but i always hated the epilogues are just rumors.

For me its still lazy writing. And then there is option to deny Oghren to become a Grey Warden.

I know Bioware also ignore that what is the point? Oghren was needed in DAA as returning companion because they wanted someone familiar in the DAA party and who wasn´t that of a quantum character in DAO. Also they save the dog for Witch Hunt.

So no i don´t believe that Oghren from all the major Origins character will make a big return.
Sten as new Arishok and maybe Shale are more likely than Oghren.

Last Edit: Mar 13, 2021 23:07:49 GMT by cuthbertbeckett

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 13, 2021 23:18:04 GMT

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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Mar 13, 2021 23:18:04 GMT

What about The Messanger from Awakening as the Grey Warden companion?
I mean he technically does fit the criteria since he has both Darkspawn AND Grey Warden blood, he isn't a quantum character AND as far as we know he's trying to do good since the events of Awakening on

The problem for him is that he spreads the Taint, but they could always retcon it that for a Darkspawn the Grey Warden blood simply cancels that out over slowly overtime

Last Edit: Mar 13, 2021 23:20:38 GMT by Black Magic Ritual

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 13, 2021 23:30:11 GMT

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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Mar 13, 2021 23:30:11 GMT

Mar 13, 2021 23:18:04 GMT Black Magic Ritual said:

What about The Messanger from Awakening as the Grey Warden companion?
I mean he technically does fit the criteria since he has both Darkspawn AND Grey Warden blood, he isn't a quantum character AND as far as we know he's trying to do good since the events of Awakening on

Sorry he is a quantum character. He can be killed in DAA.

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 13, 2021 23:30:38 GMT

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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2021 23:30:38 GMT

It's not like BioWare hasn't done something similar before … the "Awakened Collector" in ME3MP.

An "Awakened" Darkspawn from DAO Awakening … who at the end of DA4 hears the calling … goes to the deep roads and …

Slaughters dwarves.

:hue:

Last Edit: Mar 13, 2021 23:31:58 GMT by Deleted

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 13, 2021 23:58:26 GMT

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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Mar 13, 2021 23:58:26 GMT

Mar 13, 2021 23:30:11 GMT cuthbertbeckett said:

Mar 13, 2021 23:18:04 GMT Black Magic Ritual said:

What about The Messanger from Awakening as the Grey Warden companion?
I mean he technically does fit the criteria since he has both Darkspawn AND Grey Warden blood, he isn't a quantum character AND as far as we know he's trying to do good since the events of Awakening on

Sorry he is a quantum character. He can be killed in DAA.

Not really?
At least I don't see anything that references him in the DA Keep, so they could always just go with the Warden keeping him alive when they meet in Amaranthine

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 14, 2021 0:35:50 GMT

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Post by samurailink on Mar 14, 2021 0:35:50 GMT

Mar 13, 2021 23:07:34 GMT cuthbertbeckett said:

Mar 13, 2021 21:49:47 GMT samurailink said:

So an epilogue slide (which we're told to take as rumors because so many were retconned) wouldn't be enough to put down the dwarf.

You are right that Bioware could ignore his death and retcon his survival again but i always hated the epilogues are just rumors.

For me its still lazy writing. And then there is option to deny Oghren to become a Grey Warden.

I know Bioware also ignore that what is the point? Oghren was needed in DAA as returning companion because they wanted someone familiar in the DAA party and who wasn´t that of a quantum character in DAO. Also they save the dog for Witch Hunt.

So no i don´t believe that Oghren from all the major Origins character will make a big return.
Sten as new Arishok and maybe Shale are more likely than Oghren.

Nevermind you were right. I had forgotten he could be denied becoming a Warden.

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 14, 2021 11:23:21 GMT

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Post by Noxluxe on Mar 14, 2021 11:23:21 GMT

Mar 13, 2021 23:07:34 GMT cuthbertbeckett said:

Sten as new Arishok and maybe Shale are more likely than Oghren.

*looks at the giant, heavily armored, slumped-over corpse lying next to his campfire and the pile of crystal-studded rubble left by Branka's anvil in the bowels of the Earth beyond the Dead Trenches*

Uh, sure.

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 14, 2021 13:13:41 GMT

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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Mar 14, 2021 13:13:41 GMT

Mar 13, 2021 23:58:26 GMT Black Magic Ritual said:

Not really?
At least I don't see anything that references him in the DA Keep, so they could always just go with the Warden keeping him alive when they meet in Amaranthine

Yes he can be killed and the fact that he is no reference of him in the DA Keep is not a good sign.

Generell speaking beside the Architect i don´t expect any DAA character to return with the current DAA situation in the Dragon Age Keep.

Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT Noxluxe said:

*looks at the giant, heavily armored, slumped-over corpse lying next to his campfire and the pile of crystal-studded rubble left by Branka's anvil in the bowels of the Earth beyond the Dead Trenches*

Uh, sure.

Sten can easily be freed from one else and somehow found his sword by himself. So i don´t see any problem with him.

And Shale she is a golem. Can you really kill a Golem that easy. Make no mistake Caradin is after his Java jump dead but Shale survival could explain with many things like magic.

Last Edit: Mar 14, 2021 13:18:28 GMT by cuthbertbeckett

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 14, 2021 15:56:02 GMT

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Post by Noxluxe on Mar 14, 2021 15:56:02 GMT

Mar 14, 2021 13:13:41 GMT cuthbertbeckett said:

Sten can easily be freed from one else and somehow found his sword by himself. So i don´t see any problem with him.

And Shale she is a golem. Can you really kill a Golem that easy. Make no mistake Caradin is after his Java jump dead but Shale survival could explain with many things like magic.

I was referring to an instance in which the player killed Sten him/herself, in camp. And yes, you kill many even larger golems even more easily in the same quest as the one you can kill Shale in. Remember the 'I'll be a pile of rubble, not a bloody smear' conversation?

I'm just poking fun at the idea that Oghren showing up as a Grey Warden is more implausible because the player might have chosen not to make him one than Sten or Shale, or for that matter Leliana, showing up even though the player killed them. You can also give Anders over to Rylock to be executed or Tranquilized, and he'll still show up as a runaway Grey Warden in DAII to escalate the main conflict and be the catalyst for a war.

Clearly Bioware has no issue retconning the events of previous games in your playthrough if the decisions made were unlikely and unpopular enough. Such as not making Oghren a Grey Warden, which has never seriously occurred to me even after ten years and about as many playthroughs.

Last Edit: Mar 14, 2021 15:59:07 GMT by Noxluxe

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 14, 2021 16:18:00 GMT

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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Mar 14, 2021 16:18:00 GMT

Mar 14, 2021 15:56:02 GMT Noxluxe said:

I was referring to an instance in which the player killed Sten him/herself, in camp.

I don´t remember that this possible and i couldn´t find any videos about it. I only remember the Haven entrance scene.

And yes, you kill many even larger golems even more easily in the same quest as the one you can kill Shale in. Remember the 'I'll be a pile of rubble, not a bloody smear' conversation?

Like i said are those golems really dead?

I'm just poking fun at the idea that Oghren showing up as a Grey Warden is more implausible because the player might have chosen not to make him one than Sten or Shale, or for that matter Leliana, showing up even though the player killed them.

You have forgotten the most important character for your argument Oghren himself in DAO.

"If the Warden killed him during the events of Origins while attempting to leave the party at -100 disapproval, the Warden-Commander can ask him about it. He will claim that he woke up with nothing on and compliment the Commander on trying to kill him."
dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Oghren

Of course its possible that Bioware she still retconed Oghren death again but it (well atleast for me) seems very unlikely.

Clearly Bioware has no issue retconning the events of previous games in your playthrough if the decisions made were unlikely and unpopular enough. Such as not making Oghren a Grey Warden, which has never seriously occurred to me even after ten years and about as many playthroughs.

I would argue that times have changed. I mean how many people hated that they brought a dead (and possible beheaded) Leliana back.

There are dozens of threads with this topic.

And that´s why you can´t really kill besides The Iron Bull no other character in DAI. Even a Thom Rainer / Blackwall could be brought back but it would hard to explain that.

Last Edit: Mar 14, 2021 16:18:31 GMT by cuthbertbeckett

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 14, 2021 17:15:42 GMT

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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 14, 2021 17:15:42 GMT

Mar 14, 2021 16:09:27 GMT cuthbertbeckett said:

Like i said are those golems really dead?

I seem to recall a whole squadron of golems was destroyed at some point, which is why they stopped sending them out but even so there are very few left now it seems, so when they are struck down one must assume that, yes, they are "dead". The reason for this has not been explained but presumably it is something to do with the magic that keeps the spirit of the dwarf confined within the body, likely some special sort of rune that was produced only by the Anvil of the Void. If you hit the golem enough to topple it, maybe that damages the rune sufficiently that the spirit is freed. Then all you have is a pile of rocks or mangled metal.

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 14, 2021 17:22:04 GMT Hanako Ikezawa and Walter Black like this

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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 14, 2021 17:22:04 GMT

Mar 14, 2021 16:09:27 GMT cuthbertbeckett said:

I would argue that times have changed. I mean how many people hated that they brought a dead (and possible beheaded) Leliana back.

Didn't they say they would not do this again because of the trouble it caused? I'm sure it was said somewhere that from now on they would not bring back characters who could potentially be killed in game. Of course this hasn't stopped bringing back characters in the novels and comics, which is why these media shouldn't really be regarded as "canon" but just one person's world view. So for this reason I don't expect to see any previous Warden characters that could die in the game except, perhaps, as a cameo if they weren't left in the Fade in DAI, the alternative being Hawke or possibly no one. That depends on how much continuity they want with the epilogue to DAI/Trespasser.

Besides I don't want old characters forced on me, who I'm then expected to bond with simply because they are from a previous game. If we are going to have a Warden, let it be an entirely new character, with different backstory and motivations to any that we have met previously.

Last Edit: Mar 14, 2021 17:25:07 GMT by gervaise21

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 14, 2021 18:01:39 GMT

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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Mar 14, 2021 18:01:39 GMT

Mar 14, 2021 17:15:42 GMT gervaise21 said:

I seem to recall a whole squadron of golems was destroyed at some point, which is why they stopped sending them out but even so there are very few left now it seems, so when they are struck down one must assume that, yes, they are "dead". The reason for this has not been explained but presumably it is something to do with the magic that keeps the spirit of the dwarf confined within the body, likely some special sort of rune that was produced only by the Anvil of the Void. If you hit the golem enough to topple it, maybe that damages the rune sufficiently that the spirit is freed. Then all you have is a pile of rocks or mangled metal.

I still won´t rule it out that Bioware could explain a "dead" Shale. Maybe she was brought by some Mortalitasi or Tevinter Magic who knows.

The important question isn´t the how but does Bioware want Shale to be in DA 4 or not.

Didn't they say they would not do this again because of the trouble it caused? I'm sure it was said somewhere that from now on they would not bring back characters who could potentially be killed in game.

I think they said it severall times mainly with the explanation what the meaning of quantum characters are.

Besides I don't want old characters forced on me, who I'm then expected to bond with simply because they are from a previous game. If we are going to have a Warden, let it be an entirely new character, with different backstory and motivations to any that we have met previously.

Also we already have enough Ferelden and to a lesser extent Orlais Warden. If DA 4 really has a grey warden companion it should be someone from Andersfels or Tevinter.

I still like returning characters if they make sense. Like you i don´t like the idea of Varric´s return again but in DAI it was fine.

Also the most important point i don´t think that Bioware will bring any previous companion. Well i hope that because i don´t want Varric again.
It seems more likely (before the latest trailer) that Bioware promoted the secondary NPCs from DAI and maybe 1-2 from other media like the comics.

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 17, 2021 1:32:25 GMT via mobile samurailink likes this

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Post by Ameridan on Mar 17, 2021 1:32:25 GMT

Here’s me hoping we get some big earth shattering revelations from the Avernus research plot line that I suspect has been left to die.

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Mar 18, 2021 15:05:04 GMT fairdragon likes this

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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 18, 2021 15:05:04 GMT

Mar 17, 2021 2:48:11 GMT duskwanderer said:

I see no need for them in a battle against ancient elves.

That depends on whether the Blight was caused originally by ancient elves. Also whether Warden blood may be needed to counteract it in some way. The origin of the Blight is definitely going to feature in the next game from the clues given thus far and the trailer promised darkspawn, so there is a reason for the Wardens to be involved.

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Feb 4, 2023 23:02:49 GMT

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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Feb 4, 2023 23:02:49 GMT

Thread Necro :wizard:

SPOILER: Click to show

Well the Grey Warden companion is surprise surprise Davrin. I guess human male and perhaps with a darker skin.

Also with Weisshaupt some known characters could show up. Some if not all of the surviving Last Flight characters Reimas, Valya, and Caronel, Antoine & Evka Ivo and of course the first Warden to make an appearance. It would rule out the fate survivor so no Hawke, Stroud, Alistair or Loghain because there so quantum.
Also i highly doubt that we will see Major Gregory Dedrick, Ser Ruth, Avernus, Fiona, Sigrun or even Warden Bethany / Carver again.
But Nathaniel, Oghren or even Velanna why not?

And of course the Hero of Ferelden won´t show up of course. Like DA2 and DAI before just a codex entry.

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Feb 4, 2023 23:04:23 GMT cuthbertbeckett and fairdragon like this

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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 4, 2023 23:04:23 GMT

Feb 4, 2023 23:02:49 GMT cuthbertbeckett said:

Thread Necro :wizard:

Good necro.

Looks like this is more topical.

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Feb 4, 2023 23:11:23 GMT Hanako Ikezawa and fairdragon like this

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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Feb 4, 2023 23:11:23 GMT

Feb 4, 2023 23:04:23 GMT SofaJockey said:

Good necro.

Looks like this is more topical.

Thanks why create a new one when one already exists?

I am well aware that mods / admins in other forum don´t like necro threads but there is new stuff to discuss.

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Feb 5, 2023 13:15:46 GMT Absafraginlootly, cuthbertbeckett, and 1 more like this

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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 5, 2023 13:15:46 GMT

Feb 5, 2023 13:03:23 GMT cuthbertbeckett said:

there is new stuff to discuss.

SPOILER: Click to show

Apart from being really excited that it looks like we are definitely going to Weisshaupt and that Davrin is likely a companion character, it seems that red lyrium darkspawn are a major thing (as indicated by the concept art and 2020 trailer). However, the other thing I picked up on was the presence of a dragon. Now I assume this is probably a regular dragon but I wonder if there is more to it, bearing in mind it is attacking the Keep along with the darkspawn. Could we be correct in thinking that we are going to get some sort of Blight? Is it an Arch-demon and are they telling us to chain the dragon because the Wardens no longer think killing it would be a good idea? Or is it a false Arch-demon under control of some other Magister like Corypheus did with his dragon.

Or is it an Old God without the taint but still able to summon darkspawn? I've often questioned how it is that the song of the Old God attracts the darkspawn if it isn't already tainted before they get there. Likewise, how do the Wardens hear the call before it becomes an Arch-demon? So, this could be a new development if the Old God managed to free itself (or was freed as a result of some other activity) before becoming tainted.

Last Edit: Feb 5, 2023 13:16:29 GMT by gervaise21

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Feb 5, 2023 21:47:48 GMT

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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Feb 5, 2023 21:47:48 GMT

SPOILER: Click to show

Is it possible Davrin and Evka could be temporary companions instead of full-fledged companions?
And who the hell is rook?

Honestly though, I'm incredibly excited at the thought of learning who the First Warden's true identity is now that we've arrived at Weisshaupt.
IT'S FINALLY TIME TO UNMASK HIM

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Feb 5, 2023 23:00:28 GMT Absafraginlootly and fairdragon like this

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Post by Pon.ee on Feb 5, 2023 23:00:28 GMT

Feb 5, 2023 21:47:48 GMT Black Magic Ritual said:

SPOILER: Click to show

Is it possible Davrin and Evka could be temporary companions instead of full-fledged companions?
And who the hell is rook?

Honestly though, I'm incredibly excited at the thought of learning who the First Warden's true identity is now that we've arrived at Weisshaupt.
IT'S FINALLY TIME TO UNMASK HIM

SPOILER: Click to show

Rook could be what the PC is known by? DA:O was Warden, DA2 was Hawk, DA:I Herald and DA:D could very well be Rook?

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Feb 6, 2023 5:10:31 GMT via mobile mattjamho, cuthbertbeckett, and 1 more like this

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Post by Absafraginlootly on Feb 6, 2023 5:10:31 GMT

SPOILER: Click to show

Since weisshaupt appears to be in the midst of a full on siege from darkspawn i suppose the survivors might have to flee the keep to Tevinter. I'll be very interested to know if the darkspawn are acting on behalf of an archdemon, a sidereel magister, Solas, or something else.

I hope Davrin is a veteran. We got newbies in dao/a and a fake in dai (oh and i guess a deserter too in Anders, forgot about him). So an experienced grey warden would be most interesting to me now, particularly one privy to weisshaupts secrets since they might other wise be lost in it's destruction if the grey wardens don't successfully repell it.

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The Role of the Grey Wardens in Veilguard/Tevinter Feb 6, 2023 7:58:22 GMT

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Post by fairdragon on Feb 6, 2023 7:58:22 GMT

SPOILER: Click to show

what if what we see is:
1. The beginning and non of the people we see are Companions. (see Origins)
2. later and this is one chioce. Then Davrin would be like Cullen only joining temporarily.

I am very interessted what happening in DAD

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