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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 6, 2023 10:13:18 GMT
Rook could be what the PC is known by? DA:O was Warden, DA2 was Hawk, DA:I Herald and DA:D could very well be Rook? The problem I have with this as a name is that unless a very tenuous connection with the game of chess, there is no real relevance to it. The Warden was a Grey Warden; Hawke was their family name; the Herald is what people started calling us from the very beginning because they thought we were part of an old prophesy about the return of Andraste. Unless they are returning to having only one race/background for the PC, Rook cannot be their family name. Since we are meant to be someone "they never see coming", I would have thought a name symbolic with being an unseen/unexpected assailant would be more appropriate as our code name than simply "Rook". May be a Latin name because we originated in Tevinter. Arcanus means mysterious, so that would work and sounds a lot better than Rook, or Quaesitor, meaning Seeker. Or since we are likely to be searching/hunting for Solas, how about simply Hunter?
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Post by mattjamho on Feb 6, 2023 10:32:43 GMT
Since weisshaupt appears to be in the midst of a full on siege from darkspawn i suppose the survivors might have to flee the keep to Tevinter. I'll be very interested to know if the darkspawn are acting on behalf of an archdemon, a sidereel magister, Solas, or something else.
I hope Davrin is a veteran. We got newbies in dao/a and a fake in dai (oh and i guess a deserter too in Anders, forgot about him). So an experienced grey warden would be most interesting to me now, particularly one privy to weisshaupts secrets since they might other wise be lost in it's destruction if the grey wardens don't successfully repell it. Agreed. I'm playing through DAI again, and taking Blackwall through any warden/darkspawn related quests feels pointless since any comments he has are all so empty. 'How many darkspawn can we expect, Blackwall?' 'Hmm, hard to say' If we do get a real Warden companion, I'd like them to occasionally call out if they sense darkspawn nearby in gameplay, it'd be some neat immersion.
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Post by Pon.ee on Feb 6, 2023 11:30:37 GMT
Rook could be what the PC is known by? DA:O was Warden, DA2 was Hawk, DA:I Herald and DA:D could very well be Rook? The problem I have with this as a name is that unless a very tenuous connection with the game of chess, there is no real relevance to it. The Warden was a Grey Warden; Hawke was their family name; the Herald is what people started calling us from the very beginning because they thought we were part of an old prophesy about the return of Andraste. Unless they are returning to having only one race/background for the PC, Rook cannot be their family name. Since we are meant to be someone "they never see coming", I would have thought a name symbolic with being an unseen/unexpected assailant would be more appropriate as our code name than simply "Rook". May be a Latin name because we originated in Tevinter. Arcanus means mysterious, so that would work and sounds a lot better than Rook, or Quaesitor, meaning Seeker. Or since we are likely to be searching/hunting for Solas, how about simply Hunter? Maybe it's short for Rookie since we're an unknown ? Could be a code name like Leliana gave to all her agents; Charter for example. It was just a thought, I like to try and consider all angles for funsies. For all we know its an NPC we know for 10 minutes.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Feb 6, 2023 16:13:28 GMT
I hope Davrin is a veteran. We got newbies in dao/a and a fake in dai (oh and i guess a deserter too in Anders, forgot about him). So an experienced grey warden would be most interesting to me now, particularly one privy to weisshaupts secrets since they might other wise be lost in it's destruction if the grey wardens don't successfully repell it. Well with the one of two known Davrin dialogues its safe to assume that he isn´t a deserter like Anders. Also we already have to many recruits already. Another fake ok why again? So the only interesting story left for new grey warden companion is him in his prime. I can imagine that went with Davrin especially after Rainiers romanticized version of a fake Grey Warden. Why not another Duncan in tone? Davrin could be interesting but its bother me a bit that he is another Shield guy after Alistair and Rainier. I would prefer a Grey Warden Archer for some variety.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 6, 2023 17:02:29 GMT
Do we really need to use "Spoiler" when talking about Davrin, since he has been around since 2020 Behind the Scenes video. I think there is no doubt if he is confirmed as a companion, he will be an honest to goodness genuine Grey Warden. Remember his speech in the extract from 2020 was "Nobody dies on my watch. For the Wardens!". At the time I imagined it accompanying that image of a Grey Warden protecting a woman and child from dragon fire. Hmm, the latest leak had a dragon attacking the Keep as well as darkspawn. Could that be connected in any way with that earlier concept art? It also seemed that the Grey Wardens were going to feature from this image that was released later on. ![](https://www.gamespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Dragon-Age-4-Shares-Grey-Warden-Concept-Art.jpg)
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Feb 6, 2023 17:10:56 GMT
Do we really need to use "Spoiler" when talking about Davrin, since he has been around since 2020 Behind the Scenes video. I think there is no doubt if he is confirmed as a companion This is a question for a mod. But you are not wrong Davrin should surprise no one. He is similiar to Cassandra who shocked nobody. What Cassandra is a DAI companion i didn´t see that coming!
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Post by Pon.ee on Feb 6, 2023 19:07:28 GMT
I wonder if whatever that big ass warden door is not going to hold is related to anything in The Horror's of Hormak? ![:?](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/kuVkfH0oDPF0fVQukBvv.png)
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Post by warden on Feb 6, 2023 21:11:05 GMT
Do we really need to use "Spoiler" when talking about Davrin, since he has been around since 2020 Behind the Scenes video. I think there is no doubt if he is confirmed as a companion, he will be an honest to goodness genuine Grey Warden. Remember his speech in the extract from 2020 was "Nobody dies on my watch. For the Wardens!". At the time I imagined it accompanying that image of a Grey Warden protecting a woman and child from dragon fire. Hmm, the latest leak had a dragon attacking the Keep as well as darkspawn. Could that be connected in any way with that earlier concept art? It also seemed that the Grey Wardens were going to feature from this image that was released later on. ![](https://www.gamespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Dragon-Age-4-Shares-Grey-Warden-Concept-Art.jpg) Cool armor, I remember it appeared in old trailers from DAO, would be nice if it got repurposed, perhaps they use them on the Anderfels.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 7, 2023 8:47:40 GMT
I wonder if whatever that big ass warden door is not going to hold is related to anything in The Horror's of Hormak? I don't know about the one in the leak but there is was one in the concept art that I thought might be. I'd assumed it was more likely associated with the Deep Roads or Kal-Sharok but may be it is connected with Weisshaupt in some way. Did the Grey Wardens actually build Weisshaupt or did they just occupy and re-purpose some much older structure? According to WoT, the order was founded at Fortress Weisshaupt, so it sounds like it was already an outpost of the Tevinter Imperium and the Wardens just took it over. That being the case, Tevinter built a lot of their structures on the top of old elven foundations and ruins, so it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that something very old and evil was underneath them just waiting to be released. ![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ff7lBMGaEAANpMo?format=jpg&name=large) The article also suggested some sort of major incident had occurred which meant the backdrop would later be developed to show something like the Breach. When this concept art was released, it was speculated at the time that some sort of rift had occurred in the Veil at Grey Warden HQ. If the leak material makes it into the final game, this could be the case. ![](https://www.iamag.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Dragon-Age-4-Concept-Art-17.jpg)
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Post by Pon.ee on Feb 7, 2023 13:26:01 GMT
I wonder if whatever that big ass warden door is not going to hold is related to anything in The Horror's of Hormak? I don't know about the one in the leak but there is was one in the concept art that I thought might be. I'd assumed it was more likely associated with the Deep Roads or Kal-Sharok but may be it is connected with Weisshaupt in some way. Did the Grey Wardens actually build Weisshaupt or did they just occupy and re-purpose some much older structure? According to WoT, the order was founded at Fortress Weisshaupt, so it sounds like it was already an outpost of the Tevinter Imperium and the Wardens just took it over. That being the case, Tevinter built a lot of their structures on the top of old elven foundations and ruins, so it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that something very old and evil was underneath them just waiting to be released. snip The article also suggested some sort of major incident had occurred which meant the backdrop would later be developed to show something like the Breach. When this concept art was released, it was speculated at the time that some sort of rift had occurred in the Veil at Grey Warden HQ. If the leak material makes it into the final game, this could be the case. snip With how focused the Grey Warden plot in DAI was on demons and how inherently tied to that the breach is I'm hoping we get a little more deep roads and Darkspawn action from them this time around. A lot of concept art tends to be to try and feel out the game and isn't always directly related to plot so I'm hoping if there are any veil tears in DAD it's not a rinse and repeat of DAI. We already did the Grey Wardens barricaded in a fortress with demons and a dragon it'd be a bit lame to do it again. I am however incredibly bias, I wasn't the biggest on the deep roads and darkspawn in the first 2 games but The Descent is probably my favourite DA content to date and there's all that unused potential with the harvesters in the Golems of Amgarak. It really put scale and awe into what the deep roads actually are which I hadn't felt before and I really hope the Grey Wardens get to take me there again. On a side note if your Warden died killing the Archdemon and isn't a Dwarf they get a fancy coffin in Weisshaupt next to Garahel so it'd be neat to see a reference to it if that is your world state.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Feb 7, 2023 22:37:10 GMT
I wonder if the Red Lyrium Darkspawn Attack is there also enough for another grey warden topic well the civil war or is this not longer a problem between Weisshaupt and Orlais? Also how many known characters aka grey warden will be meet at Weisshaupt again? I don´t think that those from Last Flight count so maybe 1 or 2? I would love to see Nathaniel Howe again and maybe Merin ![:lol:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/qUctXNjCPgwPaLsZeKry.png) (i know this has been cut, this quest is pretty obscure because its the quest for dead Nathaniel and Merin could also be dead and let´s face most players and also Bioware have already forgotten that he exists, but still it be a cool surprise)
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Post by helios969 on Feb 8, 2023 6:51:13 GMT
I'll go with Qunari since I have no recollection of examples of Qunari Grey Wardens.
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Post by thecommandershepard on Feb 8, 2023 7:58:23 GMT
I hope they won't involve an archdemon in this game where there is already an established main villain/antagonist, i.e. Solas. Archdemon and resulting from it blights are big enough of a threat to fill a plot of entire game and make it a focus of it. Dealing with an extremely powerful maniac mage trying to blow up the world, the Qunari invasion, and blight at the same time seems like too much to handle within a single game, and those are not issues that should be easily hand-waved and dealt with in one or two main quests by the protagonist.
Albeit, the return of The Seeker could be interesting, as we never encounter, catch, or kill him. That's unless he is one of those awakened darkspawn that gray wardens supposedly caught after the darkspawn civil war.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 8, 2023 8:52:15 GMT
I hope they won't involve an archdemon in this game where there is already an established main villain/antagonist, i.e. Solas. Archdemon and resulting from it blights are big enough of a threat to fill a plot of entire game and make it a focus of it. Even so, the 2020 trailer did make a point of saying our foes would include "Demons, dragons, darkspawn, even the Dread Wolf", so even if it isn't an actual Blight, they did seem to be planning on making darkspawn a feature of the game, whilst the Qunari didn't even merit a mention. Of course, when you going for alliteration for effect, as they appeared to be in that phrase, the Qunari don't fit the theme but, even so, it didn't look as though the Qunari were going to be one of the main threats we were going to be faced with, whilst red lyrium has featured a lot in associated media,concept art and the animation from 2020 and now the darkspawn seem to have been powered up with it.
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Post by thecommandershepard on Feb 8, 2023 12:55:34 GMT
I hope they won't involve an archdemon in this game where there is already an established main villain/antagonist, i.e. Solas. Archdemon and resulting from it blights are big enough of a threat to fill a plot of entire game and make it a focus of it. Even so, the 2020 trailer did make a point of saying our foes would include "Demons, dragons, darkspawn, even the Dread Wolf", so even if it isn't an actual Blight, they did seem to be planning on making darkspawn a feature of the game, whilst the Qunari didn't even merit a mention. Of course, when you going for alliteration for effect, as they appeared to be in that phrase, the Qunari don't fit the theme but, even so, it didn't look as though the Qunari were going to be one of the main threats we were going to be faced with, whilst red lyrium has featured a lot in associated media,concept art and the animation from 2020 and now the darkspawn seem to have been powered up with it. Facing demons, dragons and darksapwn as enemies in itself is not an issue to me. We were fighting demons, darkspawn, and dragons in every single main game. Naturally, because the games were set outside of the blight, we only encountered darkspawn under very specific conditions, and they were far less dangerous than blights.Considering that what we faced could be reasonably allocated to a relatively small segment of the overall game, rather than the entire game like DAO, I'm not sure how they'll deal with Qunari, given that it appears they invaded at least two countries, if I'm not mistaken. It would be difficult to sweep them under the rug (unless it is resolved, only a temporary alliance will be formed to take down Solas), and Qunari on their own are a threat worthy of a book or game plot (with time skips likely required). Having said that, I'm not sure Qunari War fits as the main plot for a game in this franchise. It would be much more down to earth in terms of conflict and plot, more like the second act of DA 2, as opposed to some ancient evil or threat threatening the entire world.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 8, 2023 13:31:34 GMT
I'm not sure how they'll deal with Qunari, given that it appears they invaded at least two countries, if I'm not mistaken. It would be difficult to sweep them under the rug (unless it is resolved, only a temporary alliance will be formed to take down Solas), and Qunari on their own are a threat worthy of a book or game plot (with time skips likely required). I think we are most likely to encounter them if we go to Antiva City, as according to the latest short story they were working their way down the coast, or possibly in Arlathan Forest, as they have been shown to be active there in both comics and short stories. However, aside from perhaps brokering a temporary truce, I think it may be something going on in the background that is taking the attention of rulers and other people in charge, but we do not get involved in directly because we have a bigger problem to solve. I'm not sure Qunari War fits as the main plot for a game in this franchise. It would be much more down to earth in terms of conflict and plot, more like the second act of DA 2, as opposed to some ancient evil or threat threatening the entire world. As you say, likely a problem for people at a local level and may prevent them from helping us but it is not something we have to deal with, unless they cross paths with us and actively get in the way of our mission. It is entirely possible we could recruit companions from both sides because of the knowledge needed to deal with Solas and there is a degree of tension in the party as a result but they will learn to put aside their differences for the greater good of saving the world.
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Feb 8, 2023 23:39:11 GMT
I've updated the poll to reflect the change of tone since we now have Red Lyrium invading Weisshaupt. I wonder how this will play in during the course of the game for the First Warden He was well aware of Red Lyrium pools by the time of DA2, holy hell, could there be a connection between him and it?
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Mar 4, 2024 22:56:26 GMT
I was going to put this in the crazy theory thread, but I wonder if a storyline in DA4 involves overthrowing the First Warden and the current old guard at Weisshaupt?
I'd imagine it would be someone backing the player that has come into conflict with the Wardens - either a faction in the GWs, the Weisshaupt royal family or potentially even Tevinter themselves, looking to further gain power during these troubling times.
That means either the player or another party member could become First Warden to lead the GWs afterwards.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Mar 4, 2024 23:44:08 GMT
I was going to put this in the crazy theory thread, but I wonder if a storyline in DA4 involves overthrowing the First Warden and the current old guard at Weisshaupt? I'd imagine it would be someone backing the player that has come into conflict with the Wardens - either a faction in the GWs, the Weisshaupt royal family or potentially even Tevinter themselves, looking to further gain power during these troubling times. That means either the player or another party member could become First Warden to lead the GWs afterwards. We do often choose the leaders in these games. Eg the warden with the throne of Orzammar and Ferelden respectively, the Inquisitor with the orlesian one, Ryder with the sloane vs reyes. It wouldn't surprise me if we had the option to either support the current First Warden or help a different candidate take power.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 5, 2024 8:17:41 GMT
I was going to put this in the crazy theory thread, but I wonder if a storyline in DA4 involves overthrowing the First Warden and the current old guard at Weisshaupt? That would tie back nicely to the epilogue of DAI concerning the Wardens, which was pretty much ignored in Trespasser if Hawke survived the Fade. If you ask Varric he just does his usual yarn spinning, so that wasn't helpful. Then in the epilogue Hawke was back in Kirkwall, so clearly was not affected by the situation at Weisshaupt. Honestly, I never understood the point of Hawke going there in the first place. They weren't a Grey Warden so why would the First Warden be that concerned with their opinion? I have to admit, though, that the novel Last Flight was frustrating as well because it definitely seemed as though Weisshaupt was oblivious to what was going on down south. Clearly, there were limits to the False Calling, although we were given the impression there was no limit to the range, at least where the south was concerned. However, the First Warden was getting reports from Denerim as though nothing was wrong, no mysterious disappearance of all the Wardens in Ferelden and Orlais, just Clarel hadn't checked in recently, which can be normal if they are undertaking a major campaign in the Deep Roads. However, they did seem to have an ongoing project researching blood magic in their archives, so that might be significant. It may well be the Grey Warden plot does result in some sort of challenge to the First Warden. There was some hint of it in the dialogue in the latest trailer. Was that voice the First Warden or someone objecting to their orders? In WoT the First Warden is said to be very mixed up in the politics of the Anderfels, implying that perhaps they have lost their focus on their prime objective. If our heroes are tasked with addressing those problems that those in power ignore, this would fit with the First Warden no longer fulfilling their role properly. I wonder what the gathering storm could be referring to. It seems an actual physical threat, not just analogy. However, since the Fade is often equated with the sky in ancient lore, could the storm be the result of some tear in the Veil? That would fit with the concept art showing what appears to be a Grey Warden standing in Weisshaupt with a green swirling vortex just beyond: ![](https://www.iamag.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Dragon-Age-4-Concept-Art-17.jpg) The line in the 2020 trailer: "Demons, dragons, darkspawn" could refer to a triple threat in the case of Weisshaupt. It is interesting that the world view and concept art for Antiva and Rivain, seemed to show a fairly normal landscape, even if there were ruins by the sea in Rivain, but the one for the Anderfels was dark and menacing in the trailer, with what appeared to be a dust storm in the concept art, plus also traces of red lyrium. Could the First Warden have done a "Meredith" and found a deposit of red lyrium that they were using and it warped their mind even more than the taint normally would over time, perhaps accelerating it? How long have they been First Warden? Could it be related to the old 2013 trailer in any way: ![](https://hips.hearstapps.com/digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/13/26/gaming-dragonageinquisition.jpg?crop=0.75xw:1xh;center,top&resize=1200:*) This is one of the scenes that never made it into DAI and that rock formation looks like something we might find in the Anderfels. The Grey Wardens have been around for a very long time, way longer than the Chantry and, as I suggested in an earlier post, may have taken over an old Tevinter fortress that was built over even older ruins, so there could well be hidden secrets in its foundations or simply its archives. They might well explain an attack because there is something there that either Solas or his enemies among the Old Gods, need. Judging by the dragon, it could well be the latter.
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Mar 5, 2024 16:34:15 GMT
Looking over the whole First Warden being a magister thing - I thought of how that might impact Hawke/Warden contact's fate from DAI
If the First Warden is magister 6 and could boy hop like Corypheus - then potentially Hawke/Warden could be a host for Magister 7. Meaning Hawke could be an antagonist the player must face during Dreadwolf
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 5, 2024 16:50:49 GMT
Meaning Hawke could be an antagonist the player must face during Dreadwolf Hawke isn't tainted though. The reason Cory could soul jump to Wardens is because they were tainted and he controlled them, so removing any resistance to the transfer. Hawke wouldn't qualify unless they were forced to take the joining. Strangely enough, the new recruits in Last Flight weren't being hurried into the Joining, almost like those in charge knew that there might be a problem with it, so perhaps they were aware of the threat of Corypheus. It is possible that if it was Stroud/Alistair/Loghain who survived in DAI that they could end up being possessed but to be honest, I think that is unlikely. I think like Hawke they will have returned south to rebuild there (which was meant to be the whole point in saving them) and there will just be a codex to that effect. However, the First Warden being taken over is more plausible. That could even account for their undue interest in politics, which was against the rules of the Order. It might also account for Weisshaupt being under invasion because he was attracting them..
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Mar 7, 2024 1:26:10 GMT
Why would the Wardens not immediately kill the Archdemons if they knew their whereabouts? I remember reading this in WoT somewhere that the resting places of the Archdemons are known to them - so why not kill them instead of letting another Blight begin anew?
Unless there was a serious reason why the First Warden would not want that - maybe he's aware of a repercussion that the Grey Wardens wouldn't know about?
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Mar 7, 2024 5:23:09 GMT
More importantly - how did they learn of of the whereabouts in the first place?
If the First Warden WAS a Magister Sidereal, did he swap notes with the other 6? Or was it through an Old God Baby who'd have knowledge of it? Or archives leftover from the days of Tevinter?
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 7, 2024 7:48:19 GMT
Why would the Wardens not immediately kill the Archdemons if they knew their whereabouts? I remember reading this in WoT somewhere that the resting places of the Archdemons are known to them - so why not kill them instead of letting another Blight begin anew? You will recall that was the whole motivation behind Clarel and the demon army in DAI. Essentially, in order to get to the Old God, they would have to fight through an army of darkspawn. Then they would have to dig their way into the prison. It is far more likely the Wardens would perish before ever reaching their goal. Then there is also the problem of actually aiding the darkspawn by attempting to reach the Old God; far better to leave it buried where it is. There is also the fact of what would happen next? Without the Arch-demon keeping them underground, would the darkspawn swarm back to the surface and overwhelm it? Unless there was a serious reason why the First Warden would not want that - maybe he's aware of a repercussion that the Grey Wardens wouldn't know about? Exactly, as I explain above. Also, I am not convinced that the Old God is not already an Arch-demon when the darkspawn break through. How come the darkspawn and Wardens can hear its song if it is not already tainted? In which case, if they kill it, the soul will simply jump either to the nearest darkspawn or a Warden. I am also not convinced this actually kills the Old God soul but simply releases it back into either the Fade or more likely the Void, since that is likely the source of the taint. I think that Legion of the Dead commander (I forget his name) in the Descent had the right idea. To end the Blights they need to find the broodmothers, particularly the original broodmothers that are likely deep within the earth, and kill them. That way there would be no more darkspawn. So, even if the Arch-demon manages to break out of its prison independently, it will have no army to lead. The problem with the Blights is the sheer numbers of darkspawn and the fact that they corrupt the land where they go and people they come into contact with. This threat would be considerably lessened if there is just one Arch-demon to deal with. More importantly - how did they learn of of the whereabouts in the first place? So we have been given to understand, the Wardens know where the Old Gods are located because they hear their song, just the same as the darkspawn do. I think in the novel the Calling there was one specific Grey Warden who seemed to be particularly sensitive to their exact location, so perhaps it varies from individual to individual Grey Warden. There was also a curious codex in the Descent, which is also reproduced in WoT2, concerning the finding of a vacated Arch-demon prison in the Deep Roads, likely the one occupied by Urthemiel under Ferelden, since it was said to be in that location. There seemed evidence that the darkspawn were worshiping the Arch-demon when they found the prison and it also seemed to confirm my suspicion that the Old God was already corrupted before they broke through because the prison itself had an aura of evil and corruption, which would be strange if the Old God had been merely held there and only corrupted at the very end. I think, therefore, that we are going to find out that part of the need to imprison them was because they were already corrupted. Now if the Old Gods are the same as the Evanuris, that would account for Solas being so concerned about the Grey Wardens releasing the last two Old Gods and messing with powers with the Joining that they do not truly understand. He maintained he had to take the action he did because otherwise they would have destroyed the world. Seven corrupted Arch-demon Evanuris would likely have done that. Mythal tried to stop them, probably when the corruption was in its early stages, but the others killed her, so Fen'Harel, probably seeing that they were way too powerful for him and his band of rebels to overcome in the usual way, devised a plan for imprisoning them. Whatever the precise details, it would seem he tricked them into acting at the same time by suggesting he knew of a new even more powerful weapon they could use. Naturally none of them wanted the others to get it first, so they all left at the same time, presumably through specific eluvians which took them to pocket realms in the Deep Roads, which he then shut off. So they couldn't escape that way and instead had to call out for rescue from creatures similarly tainted. That resulted in the long term plan of speaking to human mages, who were the only ones who could hear them, getting them to the level of ability they could break into the Black City, etc. Meanwhile, Fen'Harel needed to take a long nap to recover his strength, only to discover his plan had gone badly wrong as not only had one set of stupid human mages broken into the Black City but another set had decided the best way to deal with the Arch-demons was to become tainted as well and then kill them. This is why I don't think a Grey Warden killing them is a good idea and they don't really understand what the consequences are for the Old God soul. Also, according to the Core Rule Book, the individual who came up with the idea of the Joining was an elf and was drawing on some ancient elven ritual. That sounds really dodgy to me and suggests that perhaps he was an awakened ancient elf of the Evanuris faction. Now the First Warden may well know some of the history to this because it was either handed down as an oral tradition from one First Warden to the next or was recorded somewhere in the Archives. Incidentally, also according to the Core Rule Book, there are some Wardens who agree with the dwarves that the darkspawn were already there in the depths before the Magisters entered the Black City and that the location of Dumat was already known to the High-priests and it was him specifically who guided them in the ritual to break in. That would seem to fit with the memory of Corypheus' slaves to some extent because he says Cory was increasingly troubled by the voice in his dreams and started only listening to that and nothing else. The place where he was imprisoned by the Grey Wardens also had a Temple to Dumat in it, so could that have been the location of the actual ritual and why they placed the corpse of Dumat there specifically in order to entrap him? It is also not that far from the Silent Plains, where Dumat arose and later died.
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