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Post by Ahriman on Oct 25, 2016 8:53:45 GMT
So I've stumbled upon this guy's video
And I think he actually makes a valid point. With a premise like this we don't even need this traditional ancient evil/good/whatever trope. A simple fact of being intergalactic invaders could give enough story fuel for an entire trilogy. So why and where do you think Bioware is going with Remnants?
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Post by SofaJockey on Oct 25, 2016 9:20:21 GMT
Video propositions: - MEA may suck
- CD Projekt are slave-labor developers
- Legal action against publishers is fine
Specifically about MEA, to say there might be issues with the main plot are as true as to say there might be issues over anything. Based on what we have seen, I think is far too early to say.
Whether any individual is worried, probably says more about that person's own perspective on life as it does objectively on BioWare or MEA.
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Post by Ahriman on Oct 25, 2016 9:23:58 GMT
Should have put a disclaimer to stop watching after 3:37.
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Post by Sartoz on Oct 25, 2016 9:31:44 GMT
So I've stumbled upon this guy's video And I think he actually makes a valid point. With a premise like this we don't even need this traditional ancient evil/good/whatever trope. A simple fact of being intergalactic invaders could give enough story fuel for an entire trilogy. So why and where do you think Bioware is going with Remnants? ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸ Hm... sorry. I cannot see a rag-tag fleet of 12 ARK ships( four shown in video) full of colonists, fleeing the MW, invade anything, let alone being Intergalactic Invaders.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 15:47:53 GMT
How is showing up in a star system in Andromeda, that has not seen any of your species before, any different than ...
Showing up in a star system in the Milky Way, that has not seen any of your species before?
Bueller? Anyone?
*who are you, strange species we've never seen before?*
*we are fellow Andromedans from a star cluster ... way ... over ... there*
*oh, right then, carry on*
As opposed to ...
*who are you?*
*we are from the Milky Way galaxy ... way ... way ... way ... way ... way ... well, a very long way ... over ... there*
*aliens from another galaxy, invaders, we must kill you naow*
If all but 1% of the MWG is unexplored, 99% of the MWG inhabitants would perceive the "Council Races" being just as alien as 100% of the Andromeda inhabitants.
A distinction without a difference.
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Post by TheGodlyFist on Oct 25, 2016 17:19:44 GMT
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Oct 25, 2016 18:59:25 GMT
MEA may suck if the main quest is only about the RemnantsFixed it for you. I find myself agreeing with the video. The Ark and the potential for conflict internal and external is plenty enough a hook for the whole SP campaign. The "ancient influence" trope is getting pretty tired. How many times have we seen this trope in DA and ME combined? You could say that DA and ME are pretty much solely about "ancient influence". Andromeda is a chance at a fresh start with no ancient influence. We'll have to see just how much they embrace that new framework, versus falling back on old cliches.
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Post by Innocent Bystander on Oct 26, 2016 1:13:44 GMT
*aliens from another galaxy, invaders, we must kill you naow* This totally needs to be put in the game as a part of main storyline. [X] Biower pls!
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Post by PCthug on Oct 26, 2016 1:43:15 GMT
I'm keeping my expectations for the main story low, mostly because it seems like they never replaced the previous lead writer (who came from Halo so...bleh).
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Post by Element Zero on Oct 26, 2016 2:38:26 GMT
I'm keeping my expectations for the main story low, mostly because it seems like they never replaced the previous lead writer (who came from Halo so...bleh). Chris Schlerf? He left quite a while back to work on Destiny. I believe John Dombrow has taken over lead duties. His popularity with fans remains largely intact, to this point, since his work has often been seen as some of "the high points" of the series. All that said, I wouldn't put too much into Mr. Schlerf's presence or departure. It's not like the Lead Writer shows up and tells everyone which story they will be telling in the coming game. My understanding is that he or she is supposed to ensure that the various other writers are collaborating smoothly, in addition to taking on some individual writing himself. The Lead Writer makes sure the story is being told effectively, but doesn't dictate what that story is. I'd bet Mr. Schlerf's departure didn't change a lot, in terms of the final product. That said, having Mr. Dombrow in the position does inspire confidence. He definitely "knows" Mass Effect, having written so many of the key characters and pivotal story arcs that define the Mass Effect experience to date. As to the OP topic, I saw the video in the Twitter thread where Fogg had shared it. I enjoyed it, and feel like the points are solid. BioWare loves to tell bigger than life, apocalyptic stories. I hope that they integrate the Remnant plot and the colonization plot well. We don't have enough info about MEA itself to be worried. Any concern one might have is based upon past experience with BioWare, much as the vid-maker says. Time will tell. Hopefully, MEA will be BioWare's best game yet.
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Post by RoboticWater on Oct 26, 2016 3:38:43 GMT
I'm not willing to hold my breath on this one. I don't think BioWare have ever been especially competent at their main narratives. I think the older games have been successful despite that by either offloading the brunt of the plot to the side arcs or focus their storytelling on a character like Saren. I don't think I've ever played a BioWare with the sort of complex, interweaving plot points of an Obsidian game. Certainly not one that pulled it off as successfully (if at all).
It's odd, despite a wealth of weird and interesting lore, Mass Effect has largely played it safe with the kinds of narratives it tells. Wacky premises ripe for cool stories like the virtual aliens are left almost exclusively on the periphery. If BioWare want to compete with CDPR, they'll need to start bringing those concepts to the forefront. Andromeda is a great excuse to do that, but everything we've heard thus far doesn't inspire me with confidence. Politics on the Arks is still a potential wild card, but I don't think I've seen BioWare ever get politics right. They're so obsessed with the surface level drama and archetypes that they often seem to forget complexity and nuance. That simply can't happen in a plot about political factions.
It is unfortunate though that BioWare will probably be compared to CDPR for foreseeable future. If an American developer is held to the standards of a Polish developer with a constant cash stream from GOG and a smaller financial obligation to their workforce, that couldn't possibly be work out for the American employees.
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Post by Element Zero on Oct 26, 2016 4:25:44 GMT
I'm not willing to hold my breath on this one. I don't think BioWare have ever been especially competent at their main narratives. I think the older games have been successful despite that by either offloading the brunt of the plot to the side arcs or focus their storytelling on a character like Saren. I don't think I've ever played a BioWare with the sort of complex, interweaving plot points of an Obsidian game. Certainly not one that pulled it off as successfully (it at all). It's odd, despite a wealth of weird and interesting lore, Mass Effect has largely played it safe with the kinds of narratives it tells. Wacky premises ripe for cool stories like the virtual aliens are left almost exclusively on the periphery. If BioWare want to compete with CDPR, they'll need to start bringing those concepts to the forefront. Andromeda is a great excuse to do that, but everything we've heard thus far doesn't inspire me with confidence. Politics on the Arks is still a potential wild card, but I don't think I've seen BioWare ever get politics right. They're so obsessed with the surface level drama and archetypes that they often seem to forget complexity and nuance. That simply can't happen in a plot about political factions. It is unfortunate though that BioWare will probably be compared to CDPR for foreseeable future. If an American developer is held to the standards of a Polish developer with a constant cash stream from GOG and a smaller financial obligation to their workforce, that couldn't possibly be work out for the American employees. I agree, for the most part. I've never played an Obsidian game, since they don't feature the stories and experiences I'm seeking, so I can't speak to their strengths. I agree on BioWare's weaknesses, though. BioWare writes amazing characters. They continue to get better and better at this. If one can figure out how to enjoy DAI, which is not easy for all, the depth of the character interactions and relationships is their best work yet. I think they tend to be successful with smaller story arcs and "side content" because these same talented writers are putting those arcs together, at times weaving these characters and relationships into the arcs themselves. BioWare is not strong with main plots, on a game to game basis. They tend to go to the same old well, every single time. Personally, I don't think they are willing to try anything new. They tell the same story, in assorted sanitized, "fantasy" worlds, and the strength of their character writing keeps us coming back. It is frustrating, because I'd love something a bit different from them. Even as they work on this new IP, though, I'm confident it will involve saving the world; and that world will be some ideologically idealized world -- in other words, more of the same. If it's a good SP RPG, I'll likely be playing it one day, but that doesn't mean I won't rue what it could've been with a bit more dirt under its nails and a few scuffs on its pads. CDPR does seem to have a leg up, so to speak. It's amazing how polished TW3 is, given how huge it is. That game is damn impressive, whether one likes it or not. (To be clear, I did like it quite a bit. I own all of the novels and stories concerning Geralt, so it was great to see his tale concluded in a top-shelf RPG like this.)
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Post by Ahriman on Oct 26, 2016 7:32:41 GMT
I'm not willing to hold my breath on this one. I don't think BioWare have ever been especially competent at their main narratives. Pretty sure BG2 has reputation of having one of best plots in RPG industry. Though mostly this statement is true, for some reason shorter side-stories end up more complex and coherent than actual storyline. Perhaps it has something to do with main plot being collective creation, which kinda pulls it in different directions simultaneously. You have failed me completely and utterly You should really give KOTOR2 a chance then. Just don't forget to install Restored Content mod.
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Post by Element Zero on Oct 26, 2016 14:01:59 GMT
I'm not willing to hold my breath on this one. I don't think BioWare have ever been especially competent at their main narratives. Pretty sure BG2 has reputation of having one of best plots in RPG industry. Though mostly this statement is true, for some reason shorter side-stories end up more complex and coherent than actual storyline. Perhaps it has something to do with main plot being collective creation, which kinda pulls it in different directions simultaneously. You have failed me completely and utterly You should really give KOTOR2 a chance then. Just don't forget to install Restored Content mod. Let me correct myself. I have not played an Obsidian game aside from the unfinished, retail release of KotOR 2. I have always wanted to play the restored game. It's something I might eventually get around to doing. I got as far as pricing the game and reading up on potential issues recently, so it's likely to happen, someday.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 26, 2016 15:01:08 GMT
I'm not willing to hold my breath on this one. I don't think BioWare have ever been especially competent at their main narratives. Pretty sure BG2 has reputation of having one of best plots in RPG industry. Though mostly this statement is true, for some reason shorter side-stories end up more complex and coherent than actual storyline. Perhaps it has something to do with main plot being collective creation, which kinda pulls it in different directions simultaneously. You have failed me completely and utterly You should really give KOTOR2 a chance then. Just don't forget to install Restored Content mod. Or Pillars of Eternity
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Post by RoboticWater on Oct 26, 2016 15:12:51 GMT
Pretty sure BG2 has reputation of having one of best plots in RPG industry. Though mostly this statement is true, for some reason shorter side-stories end up more complex and coherent than actual storyline. Perhaps it has something to do with main plot being collective creation, which kinda pulls it in different directions simultaneously. You have failed me completely and utterly You should really give KOTOR2 a chance then. Just don't forget to install Restored Content mod. Or Pillars of Eternity Pillars isn't their best work. In fact, I'd say that it leans too almost heavily on the plot to the point where individual characters fall flat. The exact opposite of BioWare.
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Post by Element Zero on Oct 26, 2016 15:32:30 GMT
A quick Google search revealed the barrier that has always lay between me and Obsidian's games. It appears that all of their games that I'd have been interested in playing were PC games, and I have always chosen to restrict my gaming to consoles. There are several good reasons for that, but it has definitely denied me access to many good games, over the years, and to mods.
As I mentioned above in the case of KotOR 2, I always have PC gaming in the back of my mind. I think my current console may be my last. I will likely go with a dedicated gaming PC in the future, as much as I've avoided that over the years. It just makes too much sense, at this point. Time will tell, I guess.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 26, 2016 15:33:12 GMT
Pillars isn't their best work. In fact, I'd say that it leans too almost heavily on the plot to the point where individual characters fall flat. The exact opposite of BioWare. Wait, I thought you don't play Obsidian games aside from KOTOR 2? Anyway, for some characters, like Grieving Mother, perhaps. But others, like Eder, Durance, Pallegina (and Zahua from the White march expansion) are awesome. But if you're looking for a more character focused Obsidian game, try Alpha Protocol.
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Post by Element Zero on Oct 26, 2016 15:41:48 GMT
Pillars isn't their best work. In fact, I'd say that it leans too almost heavily on the plot to the point where individual characters fall flat. The exact opposite of BioWare. Wait, I thought you don't play Obsidian games aside from KOTOR 2? Anyway, for some characters, like Grieving Mother, perhaps. But others, like Eder, Durance, Pallegina (and Zahua from the White march expansion) are awesome. But if you're looking for a more character focused Obsidian game, try Alpha Protocol. That was me that has only played KotOR 2. You've gotten us mixed up as each of you attempts to steer me toward the path of gaming enlightenment. There is a huge library of games for me to experience for the first time, should I decide to tackle them. I've always been careful about my gaming, since I have a lot of other this going on, and I could easily become too involved.
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Post by RoboticWater on Oct 26, 2016 16:51:49 GMT
Pillars isn't their best work. In fact, I'd say that it leans too almost heavily on the plot to the point where individual characters fall flat. The exact opposite of BioWare. Wait, I thought you don't play Obsidian games aside from KOTOR 2? Anyway, for some characters, like Grieving Mother, perhaps. But others, like Eder, Durance, Pallegina (and Zahua from the White march expansion) are awesome. But if you're looking for a more character focused Obsidian game, try Alpha Protocol. I may have a DVD case of KoTOR II hanging like a crucifix on the wall behind my computer, but that doesn't mean that's all I play. It's not that I'm looking for a more character focused game ( KoTOR II is the perfect balance for me), but that I thought Pillars just seemed so distant. While Eder, Durance, Hiravias, and others were cool characters, each of their narrative arcs were essentially one side mission that involved going to 2-3 places, gathering tiny tidbits, and then ultimately ruminating on how pointless and/or depressing life is. I always enjoy a good nihilistic conversation (though the sheer number of them in Pillars sort of wore thin on me after a while), but the overall character arcs all felt very short and inconsequential. Say what you will about ME2's daddy issue side quests, I still think they were more gripping than the ones in Pillars. More superficial certainly, but more of a perceivable arc to get caught up in. I thought Durance and the Grieving Mother had the most fleshed out side quests, simply because they seemed to have the most dialog. I really enjoyed how the complex history of these characters unfurled gradually. Overall, it might have helped if the companions interacted more with the main quest. They say stuff occasionally, but I feel like all of them were replaceable. That's probably because they literally are (permadeath is a bitch), but it left me without a character context to hold onto. I felt essentially the same for most NPCs. There were a lot of characters like Raedric who were definitely interesting but had all their character development happen before you came into the picture. All that's left is a bloody scene, a conversation, and a choice. It's all too distant to really sink your teeth into it. I really like the concept that everything's already gone wrong, and you can just mop up, but I think there needed to be more extended interaction with my character in these plots.
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Post by MrR40 on Oct 26, 2016 17:46:38 GMT
Pretty sure BG2 has reputation of having one of best plots in RPG industry. Though mostly this statement is true, for some reason shorter side-stories end up more complex and coherent than actual storyline. Perhaps it has something to do with main plot being collective creation, which kinda pulls it in different directions simultaneously. I agree but when playing Throne of Bhaal I felt there were similarities with Highlander ( The Gathering where they will be irresistably drawn towards a distant land and fight for the Prize ) I will wait till N7 Day before making any assumptions on plot tropes and all that. I might as well call it Pocahontas in Space where Ryder gets to bang the first (fe)male of a friendly indigenous " alien " race. We're more like immigrants/refugees/settlers with a one way ticket, rather than invaders as I doubt the ARK fleet is fully equipped for all-out interplanetary warfare. As for the Remnants they should remain what they are, remnants ;and not Reapers 2.0. The foundation on which to build a new civilization.
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Post by Element Zero on Oct 26, 2016 19:01:48 GMT
Pretty sure BG2 has reputation of having one of best plots in RPG industry. Though mostly this statement is true, for some reason shorter side-stories end up more complex and coherent than actual storyline. Perhaps it has something to do with main plot being collective creation, which kinda pulls it in different directions simultaneously. I agree but when playing Throne of Bhaal I felt there were similarities with Highlander ( The Gathering where they will be irresistably drawn towards a distant land and fight for the Prize ) I will wait till N7 Day before making any assumptions on plot tropes and all that. I might as well call it Pocahontas in Space where Ryder gets to bang the first (fe)male of a friendly indigenous " alien " race. We're more like immigrants/refugees/settlers with a one way ticket, rather than invaders as I doubt the ARK fleet is fully equipped for all-out interplanetary warfare. As for the Remnants they should remain what they are, remnants ;and not Reapers 2.0. The foundation on which to build a new civilization. Agreed on the Remnant. I'm sure they're going to make a fun game, regardless. It's Mass Effect, after all. I would like the conflicts to be against "clear and present dangers", for a change, rather than an ancient evil that awakens just as we arrive or because we awaken it with our meddling. We've already played that plot. I liked the leak that suggested an arms race fueled by Remnant tech. It would be interesting if we, as the new arrivals, serve as the fulcrum upon which a pre-existing or building conflict can turn. Maybe an anti-Khet Alliance already exists, but it didn't have much traction until the new arrivals started stealing Remnant tech out from under the Khet? Maybe things change for everyone when we join this alliance? It still makes us special Mary Sues, but at least there's no space-Cthulu. Again, we've already played that story.
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Post by Arcian on Oct 26, 2016 20:27:19 GMT
So I've stumbled upon this guy's video And I think he actually makes a valid point. With a premise like this we don't even need this traditional ancient evil/good/whatever trope. A simple fact of being intergalactic invaders could give enough story fuel for an entire trilogy. So why and where do you think Bioware is going with Remnants? ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸ Hm... sorry. I cannot see a rag-tag fleet of 12 ARK ships( four shown in video) full of colonists, fleeing the MW, invade anything, let alone being Intergalactic Invaders.
Stop the presses! Sartoz just made a logical argument!
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