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Post by githcheater on Apr 24, 2021 20:26:28 GMT
Based on his frequent waxing nostalgic about Dragon Age on Twitter, it seems that he was not burned out on Bioware and Dragon Age when he left Bioware.
Was EA unhappy with the progress made on DA4?
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 24, 2021 22:32:15 GMT
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 24, 2021 22:33:36 GMT
I think it would be too simplistic to really point at one thing over another. Here is an article from AskAGameDev about BioWare specifically. Link. I do think BioWare needed a management shakeup to correct some of the systematic issues that have been part of their internal culture for years probably existing long before EA and sadly a management shuffling might have been what EA decided to do. The problem also with being at the top if if you don't like or tired of your specific job even if you like the company there is nowhere to really go but out. Edit: If you want to hear him talk about his experiences here is his YouTube channel. The only catch is he has a background of walking so it can trigger motionsickness for it does do that to me. Link
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Apr 25, 2021 2:49:35 GMT
I don’t know but I wish him the best.
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shaqfu
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Post by shaqfu on Apr 25, 2021 5:13:59 GMT
Probably never know the full story. But you can totally still love the content you help create, but get burned out on the process involved to create it.
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 25, 2021 12:34:19 GMT
I don't think it's fair to give anyone side-eye if after more than two decades they decide to do something else.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 25, 2021 14:14:49 GMT
I don't really care, unless it was because he did something awful, or something awful was done to him.
BioWare is basically the only developer I ever heard of where people leaving is "big news". I rarely see articles on the various game news outlets about staff of other places leaving, unless it involved scandal or abuse. Amy Hennig from Naughty Dog is about the only example I can think of, and that was forever ago.
According to the AskAGameDev post linked above, BioWare isn't experiencing an "unusual" rate of turnover for the industry, which is what I always suspected.
The BioWare fandom is the only fandom where I've encountered this ridiculous paranoia about people leaving the company (as if all the game dev talent was born in 1970-75 and there will never be any more good game developers ever again), and I have to conclude journalists are deliberately milking it for clicks.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 25, 2021 14:53:27 GMT
Based on his frequent waxing nostalgic about Dragon Age on Twitter, it seems that he was not burned out on Bioware and Dragon Age when he left Bioware.
Was EA unhappy with the progress made on DA4?
From what I understand, Mark leaving alongside Casey was not accidental. Nor was it something that was decided last minute. I also understand that "Anthem NEXT" was never going to be a thing. Let's just say that there was a lot of discontent from Bioware and EA about how some things were being handled and how often Bioware devs went rogue on things. The problem with going rogue on things is that what transpires on that level is also above my paygrade. Mark and Casey were going to leave regardless and it had been a long time coming. NEXT was more of a testing ground for Christian, than an actual project EA intended to realize, hence the small team and limited funding it got. With Mark leaving, Christian was put in charge, having earned some confidence from EA in his leadership skills. As far as I am aware and understand, this was the EA plan as of Q3 2019 regarding Bioware.
This is a condensed and simplified version of events, and therefore somewhat inaccurate, some of it, no doubt, intentionally so.
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Post by river82 on Apr 25, 2021 21:44:31 GMT
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 25, 2021 23:44:03 GMT
Congratulations. You proved that if you scour the internet, you can find a whole five or so articles about high profile departures from other companies. That doesn't disprove my material point about the BioWare fandom being paranoid, and if anything it just proves that this kind of turnover is common, and nothing to freak out about.
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Post by river82 on Apr 26, 2021 2:51:21 GMT
Congratulations. You proved that if you scour the internet, you can find a whole five or so articles about high profile departures from other companies. That doesn't disprove my material point about the BioWare fandom being paranoid, and if anything it just proves that this kind of turnover is common, and nothing to freak out about. "Scour the internet" lol. Jeff Kaplan has only been really huge news over the past couple of days, it was even discussed on BSN's Gaming News thread which has to be pretty big news to get mentioned usually. The people leaving has only been talked about by MMO and Blizz fans over the past year or so. But sure, I "scoured the internet" to find the hidden news that Blizz has lost most of its founders, and people are scared Activision is taking over (I don't agree with this). Hidden news. I had to go to the dark web to find this!
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Post by river82 on Apr 26, 2021 2:56:29 GMT
But yes, turnover by Bioware on its own isn't something to fret over. There's plenty of reasons people can leave. You really need more information than that to start forming conclusions imo.
Also I think the turnover at Blizzard will help them. Blizz has been stagnating for a while, there's studios at Activision that used to help Bungie with Destiny that suddenly have some free time and I think Blizz will benefit from them having more outside help. Also turnover can lead to fresh ideas. We'll see
I think it's time though that Bioware fans drop the mentality that they're being treated unfairly in the gaming media. That shtick got old a while ago
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 26, 2021 3:56:18 GMT
I didn't say BioWare fans were being treated unfairly in media, I'm not aware of that being a common complaint.
I said journalists exploit their paranoia for clicks. If anything, it's BioWare fans who need to get their shit together and stop crying over every little thing.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 26, 2021 4:04:47 GMT
But yes, turnover by Bioware on its own isn't something to fret over. There's plenty of reasons people can leave. You really need more information than that to start forming conclusions imo. Also I think the turnover at Blizzard will help them. Blizz has been stagnating for a while, there's studios at Activision that used to help Bungie with Destiny that suddenly have some free time and I think Blizz will benefit from them having more outside help. Also turnover can lead to fresh ideas. We'll see I think it's time though that Bioware fans drop the mentality that they're being treated unfairly in the gaming media. That shtick got old a while ago I think its more of the YouTubers that are the problem now instead of the articles. I think most places have cleaned up their reporting to remove a lot of the baseless speculation on when a developer leaves which was my problem. Now just looking at things on YouTube with the departure of Andrzej Zawadzki from CDPR there isn't the online feast like there was when Mark Darrah left BioWare. I don't know what Andrzej Zawadzki did at CDPR with the title of Lead Designer, but to me that would have been a significant departure from the studio. I just shows that internet journalism is more about what attracts the eyes so they pick and choose stories that will get people interested for I didn't see many places cover Andrzej Zawadzki departure as they did with Mark Darrah.
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Post by river82 on Apr 26, 2021 4:37:05 GMT
But yes, turnover by Bioware on its own isn't something to fret over. There's plenty of reasons people can leave. You really need more information than that to start forming conclusions imo. Also I think the turnover at Blizzard will help them. Blizz has been stagnating for a while, there's studios at Activision that used to help Bungie with Destiny that suddenly have some free time and I think Blizz will benefit from them having more outside help. Also turnover can lead to fresh ideas. We'll see I think it's time though that Bioware fans drop the mentality that they're being treated unfairly in the gaming media. That shtick got old a while ago I think its more of the YouTubers that are the problem now instead of the articles. I think most places have cleaned up their reporting to remove a lot of the baseless speculation on when a developer leaves which was my problem. Now just looking at things on YouTube with the departure of Andrzej Zawadzki from CDPR there isn't the online feast like there was when Mark Darrah left BioWare. I don't know what Andrzej Zawadzki did at CDPR with the title of Lead Designer, but to me that would have been a significant departure from the studio. I just shows that internet journalism is more about what attracts the eyes so they pick and choose stories that will get people interested for I didn't see many places cover Andrzej Zawadzki departure as they did with Mark Darrah. Yeah with Youtube there's no regulation like you would have at a company so there's a much wider variation in quality. I find you really have to know which people you're looking for. Like, if you know which people to look at you can find some really good information but if you don't you can also get some really poor quality videos also, which is a shame. Regarding Andrzej, he did work on Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk. I'm not really a fan of either of those games so eh. Also CDProjekt Red doesn't really have the pedigree behind them that a company like Blizzard does so they don't really have rockstar devs. Kaplan is the face of the company and we're all sad, CD Projekt had one big game and a poor launch of Cyberpunk. So... I wish Andrzej all the best but *shrugs*. It's like Bethesda, they don't have the pedigree of a company like Blizzard, they had ONE huge game, they didn't redefine like 4 different genres. So if people leave it's eh imo.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 26, 2021 4:58:35 GMT
I think its more of the YouTubers that are the problem now instead of the articles. I think most places have cleaned up their reporting to remove a lot of the baseless speculation on when a developer leaves which was my problem. Now just looking at things on YouTube with the departure of Andrzej Zawadzki from CDPR there isn't the online feast like there was when Mark Darrah left BioWare. I don't know what Andrzej Zawadzki did at CDPR with the title of Lead Designer, but to me that would have been a significant departure from the studio. I just shows that internet journalism is more about what attracts the eyes so they pick and choose stories that will get people interested for I didn't see many places cover Andrzej Zawadzki departure as they did with Mark Darrah. Yeah with Youtube there's no regulation like you would have at a company so there's a much wider variation in quality. I find you really have to know which people you're looking for. Like, if you know which people to look at you can find some really good information but if you don't you can also get some really poor quality videos also, which is a shame. Regarding Andrzej, he did work on Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk. I'm not really a fan of either of those games so eh. Also CDProjekt Red doesn't really have the pedigree behind them that a company like Blizzard does so they don't really have rockstar devs. Kaplan is the face of the company and we're all sad, CD Projekt had one big game and a poor launch of Cyberpunk. So... I wish Andrzej all the best but *shrugs*. It's like Bethesda, they don't have the pedigree of a company like Blizzard, they had ONE huge game, they didn't redefine like 4 different genres. So if people leave it's eh imo. Yeah, I have started to have a very low tolerance for gaming channels on YouTube so I am slow to subscribe and quick to unsubscribe. Yeah, I do agree that Kaplan is the bigger loss to one studio versus the others. In fact I would say his loss could be the same as when the Doctors left BioWare. I do agree that his leaving isn't the biggest news, but I think one of the Cyberpunk leads leaving the company would have had some newsworthiness because of all the work going on. Going back to BioWare I think it would have been about the same as when Chris Schlerf left BioWare Montreal for Destiny 2 for it was months before people really found out. Its just odd that nobody seemed to care that someone who worked eight years at CDPR has left, but just someone leaving BioWare demonstrates something such as the standard turnover. One of my favorite things to remember when someone leaves BioWare is what happened when Christina Norman left BioWare. When she was promoted to Lead Gameplay designer for Mass Effect 2 the negativity around her promotion was the typical "BioWare is doomed", "Mass Effect is doomed", "the gameplay will suck because the guy from Mass Effect 1 is gone" style. Then when she left for Riot Games it was the reverse and that "BioWare was doomed" etc because she left. To me its the circle of narrative people want to say about BioWare while in reality normally people that take over have worked with the leads for years. The only real exception is with Chris Schlerf for he was hired for Andromeda and then left and I think the story in Andromeda tells that story pretty well.
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Black Magic Ritual
N3
Samus Aran, your heart is fine <3
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 405 Likes: 365
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Apr 26, 2021 10:40:08 GMT
I think the best way to resolve this question would be to shoot him a tweet on the Twittah
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 26, 2021 14:23:07 GMT
I think the best way to resolve this question would be to shoot him a tweet on the Twittah If he's smart, he'll ignore any such queries. Saying anything negative about his former employers will only burn bridges and make other companies he might want to work with in future think twice. If he says there were no problems, and that he parted with BioWare amicably for personal reasons, basically nobody who cares will believe him.
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Samus Aran, your heart is fine <3
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 405 Likes: 365
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Samus Aran, your heart is fine <3
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Apr 26, 2021 14:45:53 GMT
I think the best way to resolve this question would be to shoot him a tweet on the Twittah If he's smart, he'll ignore any such queries. Saying anything negative about his former employers will only burn bridges and make other companies he might want to work with in future think twice. If he says there were no problems, and that he parted with BioWare amicably for personal reasons, basically nobody who cares will believe him. I get that, but it's still has a bigger chance of success then posing the question on a Fanforum with a host of other marks speculating in his place.
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Post by lk13 on Apr 26, 2021 19:42:09 GMT
I don't really care, unless it was because he did something awful, or something awful was done to him. BioWare is basically the only developer I ever heard of where people leaving is "big news". I rarely see articles on the various game news outlets about staff of other places leaving, unless it involved scandal or abuse. Amy Hennig from Naughty Dog is about the only example I can think of, and that was forever ago. According to the AskAGameDev post linked above, BioWare isn't experiencing an "unusual" rate of turnover for the industry, which is what I always suspected. The BioWare fandom is the only fandom where I've encountered this ridiculous paranoia about people leaving the company (as if all the game dev talent was born in 1970-75 and there will never be any more good game developers ever again), and I have to conclude journalists are deliberately milking it for clicks. For some reason the internet has this thing with BW devs leaving, where people will link articles for validation and scream "See! I told you! X developer is leaving! BW is truly dead and gone now!" It's a phenomenon that's been going on since at least Andromeda came out, and something that I haven't seen people worried\angry about for any other dev studio (aside from the biggest names, like Kojima leaving Konami for example). Aside from the fact that the games industry (unfortunately) already has things like mass layoffs of hundreds of devs, I've always been of the opinion that a "healthy" studio should be able to replace the old guard with new people at some point, otherwise studios wouldn't survive more than one generation. Whatever problems current BW has can't be simply attributed to old devs leaving, but many people seem to think so.
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 26, 2021 20:41:32 GMT
I assumed it was just EA cutting costs / rejigging direction.
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