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Post by fairdragon on Jun 15, 2021 10:13:08 GMT
I know EA want more money so here my question to you.
Let me explain: With bioware mod i mean: that you have a kind of shop were you can buy more hairstyles and colours . Like mods many gamers use. No game content and no better weapons, only cosmetics. And nobody has to buy anything.
So the shop is kind of bioware mod.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 15, 2021 10:20:08 GMT
Sorry, "What will you chose" shouldn't be a select option.
It would be interesting what you would like to have "more", if they insert the shop.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 15, 2021 16:58:33 GMT
One question: If you chose "What will you chose" i belive you don't want Dragon age as it is and you don't want a shop. How should the production costs then be paid? Do you want to pay more for the game? or should the worker work for free(sarcasm)?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 15, 2021 17:47:18 GMT
I'd be fine with cosmetic dlc (I think that's what this thread is about?)and might even partake, if any of it was any good. I already play plenty of games with that feature, and if it means BioWare might actually produce hair that doesn't look like ABSOLUTE SHIT, all the better.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 15, 2021 18:06:13 GMT
I know EA want more money so here my question to you.
Let me explain: With bioware mod i mean: that you have a kind of shop were you can buy more hairstyles and colours . Like mods many gamers use. No game content and no better weapons, only cosmetics. And nobody has to buy anything.
So the shop is kind of bioware mod.
You're talking about a cosmetic shop, like Anthem, only instead of armours and helmets, you're talking about hairstyles and eyebrows and lips and eye colours etc.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 15, 2021 19:21:57 GMT
I know EA want more money so here my question to you.
Let me explain: With bioware mod i mean: that you have a kind of shop were you can buy more hairstyles and colours . Like mods many gamers use. No game content and no better weapons, only cosmetics. And nobody has to buy anything.
So the shop is kind of bioware mod.
You're talking about a cosmetic shop, like Anthem, only instead of armours and helmets, you're talking about hairstyles and eyebrows and lips and eye colours etc. Year but not in game. like the multiplayer in DAI, it would be an option to go or not to get extra thing for the character creator. Then you go back and start a new game.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 15, 2021 19:30:02 GMT
I have the feeling Bioware need more money to not run after trends. DA2 action game, DAI skrym open world and DA4 online games. I know they are creative why did they do that, because someone think that brings money.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 15, 2021 19:34:06 GMT
I have the feeling Bioware need more money to not run after trends. DA2 action game, DAI skrym open world and DA4 online games. I know they are creative why did they do that, because someone think that brings money. Absolutely. They need to prove they can raise some revenue. I don't think there will be a cash shop. The game will likely either be feature complete on release, meaning no additional content, or will be single player live service, with cosmetics. I don't know about the DA:I MP you mentioned earlier. I never played the MP. But as I said in the other thread, Gary is the kind of guy to make small production, limited scope games. Bioware has a lot to prove, in the near and far future, but I don't see DA4 being transaction free like, say, Jedi: Fallen Order.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 15, 2021 19:36:54 GMT
Sorry, "What will you chose" shouldn't be a select option. It would be interesting what you would like to have "more", if they insert the shop. For me a shop wouldn't disturb me, as long as it is only cosmetic. I can buy or not as i like. But i want choices and consequences, a good CC and good Companions (9) with romance (6). DA2 and DAI neglected one or the other.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 15, 2021 19:46:18 GMT
I have the feeling Bioware need more money to not run after trends. DA2 action game, DAI skrym open world and DA4 online games. I know they are creative why did they do that, because someone think that brings money. Absolutely. They need to prove they can raise some revenue. I don't think there will be a cash shop. The game will likely either be feature complete on release, meaning no additional content, or will be single player live service, with cosmetics. I don't know about the DA:I MP you mentioned earlier. I never played the MP. But as I said in the other thread, Gary is the kind of guy to make small production, limited scope games. Bioware has a lot to prove, in the near and far future, but I don't see DA4 being transaction free like, say, Jedi: Fallen Order. I don't like live service because it means more online. DAI was okay, because the game wasn't online if you know what i mean. I want the game have so many consequences that it brings replayability and there for we need more cosmetic. In the keep we have 10 slots but i can't fill all because we haven't enough good cosmetics. I would like them to bring good cosmetic afterwards, when there is more time for little things. I don't want content aferwards. The game should be finish at launch.
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Post by adonniel on Jun 16, 2021 2:45:50 GMT
If they do this sort of nugcrap like making us pay for the features that should be a normal part of the game in a single player game, I'll wait 10 years until the game significantly drops in price and releases an edition that has ALL the features before buying it. I got fed up with multiplayer games and next to stopped paying them due to this sort of greed.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 16, 2021 6:23:05 GMT
If they do this sort of nugcrap like making us pay for the features that should be a normal part of the game in a single player game, I'll wait 10 years until the game significantly drops in price and releases an edition that has ALL the features before buying it. I got fed up with multiplayer games and next to stopped paying them due to this sort of greed. Then a question for you: If you do that and they go bankrupt, you won't get any games. Is that what you want?
Bioware were bankrupt bevor EA bought it. That mean they didn't get enough money from the games that were a success.
I would rather have the option to pay something when I want and can than don't get any games at all. these are companies they need profit. and these days it looks like you don't make so much money with the old concepts. everything need to be online, open world or have other things i don't like at all.
I like to have a game which have a normal price and you can pay for cosmetics rather then the price of the game is so high i must wait before i can buy it.
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Post by adonniel on Jun 16, 2021 13:35:48 GMT
Then a question for you: If you do that and they go bankrupt, you won't get any games. Is that what you want? Or you could think about why people start developing such practices in the first place? I'm sick and tired of the half-shady practices of the gaming industry these days where everyone releases unfinished, bug riddled, with not even half the content it should have products and then installs a shop in addition to a massive start off prices and charges for each little thing individually. AND to top it off - these games create a massive hype for an initial cash grab, only to never bother fixing the most important issues, for several years releasing more game shop items instead of fixing their game breaking bugs, then they dump the never finished game. Why don't I sell you a t-shirt and then start selling each button separately at the price that's higher than the t-shirt itself? The game developers should learn how to properly manage their budget. Which is what I'm doing with my money and my personal budget by investing into games carefully. The fact that I've developed such practice, points out the industry problems. Bioware were bankrupt bevor EA bought it. That mean they didn't get enough money from the games that were a success. While I am sympathetic, I don't want them going the wrong way. DA games are on top of my list. I recommend them to as many people as I know. In addition, I bought every sequel and every item of all three games <- I feel I've done my civil duty and my best to show them support within my own budget limits. But, I can't help them with their management. That is not my mistake to pay for. And I will not support the practice I've listed above.
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Post by adonniel on Jun 16, 2021 16:41:59 GMT
I believe this is what will happen if Bioware releases cosmetic shop separate from the main game.
1. Players will complain bitterly that after 4 games, the base game still didn't offer a single decent haircut. All the good haircuts will obv be in the cosmetic shop. 2. Players will create their own mods to fix the lousy base game cosmetics. 3. No one will buy anything from the cosmetic shop because you can get something free and better from the player mods. 4. In order to promote their unpopular cosmetic shop, Bioware will likely implement some kind of harsh feature to combat those player mods that will most likely infuriate their player base. For example, release a graphics game patch in order to 'better' the graphics, while this patch would break player mods. 5. Sad end. Most loyal players get screwed again.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 16, 2021 17:50:30 GMT
Then a question for you: If you do that and they go bankrupt, you won't get any games. Is that what you want? Or you could think about why people start developing such practices in the first place? I'm sick and tired of the half-shady practices of the gaming industry these days where everyone releases unfinished, bug riddled, with not even half the content it should have products and then installs a shop in addition to a massive start off prices and charges for each little thing individually. AND to top it off - these games create a massive hype for an initial cash grab, only to never bother fixing the most important issues, for several years releasing more game shop items instead of fixing their game breaking bugs, then they dump the never finished game. Why don't I sell you a t-shirt and then start selling each button separately at the price that's higher than the t-shirt itself? The game developers should learn how to properly manage their budget. Which is what I'm doing with my money and my personal budget by investing into games carefully. The fact that I've developed such practice, points out the industry problems. Bioware were bankrupt bevor EA bought it. That mean they didn't get enough money from the games that were a success. While I am sympathetic, I don't want them going the wrong way. DA games are on top of my list. I recommend them to as many people as I know. In addition, I bought every sequel and every item of all three games <- I feel I've done my civil duty and my best to show them support within my own budget limits. But, I can't help them with their management. That is not my mistake to pay for. And I will not support the practice I've listed above. You understand me wrong. I meant a finish game, like all other Dragon age. The shop would have little extras and is a choice. You don't have to buy and still a finished game.
And you are correct they should manage their money, but i am afraid that Dragon age would be the half of what it is now. Less of everythig and the most gamers want more without paying.
I only want to show that if you want something, you have to give somethig back.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 16, 2021 17:54:00 GMT
I believe this is what will happen if Bioware releases cosmetic shop separate from the main game. 1. Players will complain bitterly that after 4 games, the base game still didn't offer a single decent haircut. All the good haircuts will obv be in the cosmetic shop. 2. Players will create their own mods to fix the lousy base game cosmetics. 3. No one will buy anything from the cosmetic shop because you can get something free and better from the player mods. 4. In order to promote their unpopular cosmetic shop, Bioware will likely implement some kind of harsh feature to combat those player mods that will most likely infuriate their player base. For example, release a graphics game patch in order to 'better' the graphics, while this patch would break player mods. 5. Sad end. Most loyal players get screwed again. Why don't people try to understand each other? If you met in the middle everything would be fine. We want all the same a good game which will be a success.
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Post by adonniel on Jun 16, 2021 19:07:06 GMT
You understand me wrong. I meant a finish game, like all other Dragon age. The shop would have little extras and is a choice. You don't have to buy and still a finished game. Oh you mean like DA2 All class item pack? (400 bio points) or DA2 All class item pack 2 (400bio points more) or all those class packs that are already sold for additional prices? The Emporium Pack? In that case, this already exists or are there more pay for additional features in your plan? Why don't people try to understand each other? If you met in the middle everything would be fine. We want all the same a good game which will be a success. Too bad your meeting in the middle sounds a lot like willingly trying on the sucker shoes.
That's a big and important issue I've raised regarding the professional mods clashing with player made mods that will instantly come up. And your response is to complain that I'm not willing to understand you.
I only want to show that if you want something, you have to give somethig back. Yea, and I've been giving that something in the form of my wallet and recommendations to other players who bought DA games because of me for a long time. That pay for mods tactics has been tried before by other games and never led to anything but scandals. You understand me wrong. I meant a finish game, like all other Dragon age. The shop would have little extras and is a choice. You don't have to buy and still a finished game. I simply don't trust this assessment to be realistic for a reason that current industry practices speak to the contrary with literally thousands of examples. I don't trust the base game not to offer three shades of bold haircuts and then stick everything good into the cosmetics shop.
You can theoretically find proper balance between what's fair to include in the base game without stripping it to the bare bones. Except, in practice that's how it's going to end up because that's what's been happening for a long time.
We have an example within DA franchise. DA2 'full' game was more bare than the Hanged Man after the boozing festival. Legacy was an integral part of Hawke's story that shouldn't have been skipped by the base game, yet, I paid separately for it.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 17, 2021 6:30:26 GMT
You understand me wrong. I meant a finish game, like all other Dragon age. The shop would have little extras and is a choice. You don't have to buy and still a finished game. Oh you mean like DA2 All class item pack? (400 bio points) or DA2 All class item pack 2 (400bio points more) or all those class packs that are already sold for additional prices? The Emporium Pack? In that case, this already exists or are there more pay for additional features in your plan? Why don't people try to understand each other? If you met in the middle everything would be fine. We want all the same a good game which will be a success. Too bad your meeting in the middle sounds a lot like willingly trying on the sucker shoes.
That's a big and important issue I've raised regarding the professional mods clashing with player made mods that will instantly come up. And your response is to complain that I'm not willing to understand you.
I only want to show that if you want something, you have to give somethig back. Yea, and I've been giving that something in the form of my wallet and recommendations to other players who bought DA games because of me for a long time. That pay for mods tactics has been tried before by other games and never led to anything but scandals. You understand me wrong. I meant a finish game, like all other Dragon age. The shop would have little extras and is a choice. You don't have to buy and still a finished game. I simply don't trust this assessment to be realistic for a reason that current industry practices speak to the contrary with literally thousands of examples. I don't trust the base game not to offer three shades of bold haircuts and then stick everything good into the cosmetics shop.
You can theoretically find proper balance between what's fair to include in the base game without stripping it to the bare bones. Except, in practice that's how it's going to end up because that's what's been happening for a long time.
We have an example within DA franchise. DA2 'full' game was more bare than the Hanged Man after the boozing festival. Legacy was an integral part of Hawke's story that shouldn't have been skipped by the base game, yet, I paid separately for it.
I am sorry if you feel assaulted or uncomfortable with my words, that was not my intention. And i am hearing what you saying. Maybe i have played to less games to judge that. I just feel a little helpless, waiting for a game that if it really comes maybe be a bad game, because someone think we must go with this trend to get more money.
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Post by mattjamho on Jun 17, 2021 9:45:53 GMT
I'm happy to pay for bonus cosmetic content, as long as it's good.
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Post by adonniel on Jun 17, 2021 12:29:22 GMT
I just feel a little helpless, waiting for a game that if it really comes maybe be a bad game, because someone think we must go with this trend to get more money. I am presenting a pessimistic view of it, but also do have hope for the game. I hope it succeeds and I will enjoy it as much as I like three others. This idea to separate the cosmetics is very much similar to what DA already has in practice. We do have separate armour packs, which can be identified as cosmetic items as well (they're also more powerful). I don't see that many enormous complaints about these packs being worth additional price, so, essentially the cosmetics have a chance to work as well. However, multiple issues will need to be balanced and approached diplomatically. One is how much will it be fair to implement in the base game to give the players a satisfactory selection while still giving the players an incentive to buy cosmetics. Players have been asking for decent hair since Origins. Telling them with a happy face, congratulations we have your hair, thirty more bucks please! will insult them. The second issue will be the competition between player mods and the cosmetics shop. Players don't create mods to screw the game over. They're genuine fans and create those things out of good will and love for the game. But, this will also undermine the cosmetic shop sales. How the game will manage this factor will be a very very big deal.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 18, 2021 4:04:19 GMT
I've never seen a game offering cosmetic dlc where the items on sale were of a higher graphical quality than what is available for free, I can't imagine how that would even be acheived, but then again I don't understand game development very well.
But, if it were to be done, the cosmetics available to buy would definitely be unique, with no attainable in-game equivalent. IE, it might come in a colour that is not available in the game, or you might be able to buy the iconic looks of NPCs that are not normally available.
EG: the skins available to buy in the Avengers game often have more detail/accessories, (or less in the case of stuff that makes Captain America and Hawkeye shirtless >__> ), or come in crazy, fun colours and patterns that aren't available in game and aren't canon to any appearance of the characters in any media (eg, the 'steampunk' designs currently available, which are really just old designs with some gold trim and shit on them), but I wouldn't say they're "better" than the stuff available in-game, and my favourite outfit for Black Widow is still the default one she has when you recruit her, I think most of her shop stuff is really awful.
If BioWare were to do a cosmetics shop, I would expect to see stuff like Morrigan's iconic Witch of the Wilds outfit, or her Orlesian Ballgown (Celene's too), Alistair's king armour, Cullen's lion armour... stuff that fans of the series would recognize and want to wear.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 18, 2021 7:46:11 GMT
I've never seen a game offering cosmetic dlc where the items on sale were of a higher graphical quality than what is available for free, I can't imagine how that would even be acheived, but then again I don't understand game development very well. But, if it were to be done, the cosmetics available to buy would definitely be unique, with no attainable in-game equivalent. IE, it might come in a colour that is not available in the game, or you might be able to buy the iconic looks of NPCs that are not normally available. EG: the skins available to buy in the Avengers game often have more detail/accessories, (or less in the case of stuff that makes Captain America and Hawkeye shirtless >__> ), or come in crazy, fun colours and patterns that aren't available in game and aren't canon to any appearance of the characters in any media (eg, the 'steampunk' designs currently available, which are really just old designs with some gold trim and shit on them), but I wouldn't say they're "better" than the stuff available in-game, and my favourite outfit for Black Widow is still the default one she has when you recruit her, I think most of her shop stuff is really awful. If BioWare were to do a cosmetics shop, I would expect to see stuff like Morrigan's iconic Witch of the Wilds outfit, or her Orlesian Ballgown (Celene's too), Alistair's king armour, Cullen's lion armour... stuff that fans of the series would recognize and want to wear. Thank you, for your post.
I also don't know how to implement this technically, but if they implement it is importen that: 1. player mods work as well. 2. Bioware mods are as good as the stuff in game. 3. It is something extra, but not something that should be in the game from beginning.
And nothing that is more powerful than the stuff in game.
To 3: In game are for each race a number of unique hairs and not all bold. In the shop i would put hairstyls from loved characters like Daenerys Targaryen or Yennefer von Vengerberg (i know they must look for kosts and copyrights). Or they put extra hairstyls as exemple for the wedding with alistair. They put cosmetic which doesn't fit into the narrative as exemple human blue hair. And if they are really good they put a request button in, so fans can ask for some stuff.
Maybe i'm asking too much. But i think it can work well, if they wait and don't think gamers will pay huge sums.
And another important think all bioware mods can be saved in keep so you have it in the next game as well.
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