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Post by bloodmagereaver on Sept 12, 2021 16:53:33 GMT
Well... I've already mentioned in the wishlist thread that I want a crafting system where one does not need to grab mineral nodes out of the ground and that critical crafting is not random but instead gives increased bonuses based on tier, however, this thread is where I discuss which materials should a new crafting system have and how they should be applied. First I want to discuss wood, Inquisition made bows out of metal which made no sense in lore hence I want wood to come back as a major crafting element for bows, shields and staves in the next game: | Name | Tier | Primary slot | Utility slot | Offense slot | Defense slot | | Elm | 1 | Low armor rating / damage (staff damage type: physical) | +1 Constitution | +2% armor penetration | +10 health | | Ash | 1 | Low armor rating / damage (staff damage type: nature) | +1 Willpower | +1% attack | +2.5% nature resistance | | Yew | 1 | Low armor rating / damage (staff damage type: physical) | +1 Constitution | +2% damage to guard | +10 health | | Cypress | 1 | Low armor rating / damage (staff damage type: nature) | +1 Willpower | +1.5% heal on kill | +2% healing from all sources | | Aspen | 1 | Low armor rating / damage (staff damage type: physical) | +1 Constitution | +2% armor penetration
| +10 health
| | Cedar | 1 | Low armor rating / damage (staff damage type: nature) | +1 Willpower | +1% attack
| +2.5% nature resistance
| | Whitewood | 2 | Medium armor rating / damage (staff damage type: physical) | +1.5 Constitution | +2.5% armor penetration | +13 health | | Birch | 2 | Medium armor rating / damage (staff damage type: nature) | +1.5 Willpower | +1.5% attack | +3% nature resistance | | Oak | 2 | Medium armor rating / damage (staff damage type: physical) | +1.5 Constitution | +2.5% damage to guard | +13 health | | Hickory | 2 | Medium armor rating / damage (staff damage type: nature) | +1.5 Willpower | +1.75% heal on kill | +2.5% healing from all sources | | Cherry | 2 | Medium armor rating / damage (staff damage type: physical) | +1 Constitution / +0.5 Willpower | 1.5% chance to weaken target on hit | 1.5% chance to weaken attacker on being hit | | Maple | 2 | Medium armor rating / damage (staff damage type: nature) | +1 Constitution / +0.5 Willpower | 1.5% chance to weaken target on hit
| 1.5% chance to weaken attacker on being hit
| | Ironbark | 3 | High armor rating / damage (staff damage type: physical) | +1.75 Constituition | +3% armor penetration | +15 health | | Sylvanwood | 3 | High armor rating / damage (staff damage type: nature) | +1.75 Willpower | +1.75% attack | 3.5% nature resistance | | Dragonthorn | 3 | High armor rating / damage (staff damage type: physical) | +1.75 Constitution | +3% damage to guard | +15 health | | Vhenadahl | 3 | High armor rating / damage (staff damage type: nature) | +1.75 Willpower | +2% heal on kill | +3% healing from all sources | | Stoneroot | 3 | High armor rating / damage (staff damage type: physical) | +1 Constitution / +0.75 Willpower | 1.75% chance to weaken target on hit | 1.75% chance to weaken attacker on being hit | | Giantwood | 3 | High armor rating / damage (staff damage type: nature) | +1 Contitution / +0.75 Willpower | 1.75% chance to weaken target on hit | 1.75% chance to weaken attacker on being hit | | Heartwood | 4 | Very high armor rating / damage (staff damage type: physical) | +2 Constitution | +3.5% armor penetration | +16 health | | Varterral Bone | 4 | Very high armor rating / damage (staff damage type: nature) | +2 Willpower | +2% attack | +4% nature resistance | | Titanwood | 4 | Very high armor rating / damage (staff damage type: physical) | +1 Constitution / +1 Willpower | +2% chance to weaken target on hit | +2% chance to weaken attacker on being hit |
I will add more posts with further materials and changes to existing ones. |
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Post by bloodmagereaver on Sept 13, 2021 1:44:02 GMT
The next thing I would modify are the metals to accomodate for spirit damage as well as change what bonuses they are associated with: | Name | Tier | Primary slot | Utility slot | Offense slot | Defense slot | | Blue Vitriol | 1 | Low armor rating / damage (staff damage type: cold) | +1 Strenght | +1% attack | +1% melee defense | | Drakestone | 1 | Low armor rating / damage (staff damage type: fire)
| +1 Constitution | +2% armor penetration | +10 health | | Iron | 1 | Low armor rating / damage (staff damage type: electricity)
| +1 Strenght | +1% chance to stagger target on hit | +1% chance to stagger attacker on being hit | | Onyx | 1 | Low armor rating / damage (staff damage type: spirit)
| +1 Constitution | +2% armor penetration | +10 health | | Serpentstone | 1 | Low armor rating / damage (staff damage type: electricity) | +1 Strenght | +1% chance to stagger target on hit
| +1% chance to stagger attacker on being hit | | Summer Stone | 1 | Low armor rating / damage (staff damage type: fire) | +1 Constitution | +2% damage to guard | +10 health | | Bloodstone | 2 | Medium armor rating / damage (staff damage type: spirit)
| +1.5 Constitution | +2.5% armor penetration | +13 health | | Lazurite | 2 | Medium armor rating / damage (staff damage type: cold)
| +1.5 Strenght | +1.5% attack | +1.5% melee defense | | Obsidian | 2 | Medium armor rating / damage (staff damage type: cold)
| +1.5 Strenght | +1.5% attack | +1.5% melee defense | | Paragon's Luster | 2 | Medium armor rating / damage (staff damage type: electricity)
| +1 Strenght / +0.5 Constitution | +1.5% chance to stagger target on hit
| +1.5% chance to stagger attacker on being hit
| | Phyrophite | 2 | Medium armor rating / damage (staff damage type: fire) | +1.5 Constitution | +2.5% damage to guard | +13 health | | Veridium | 2 | Medium armor rating / damage (staff damage type: spirit)
| +1.5 Constitution | +2.5% armor penetration | +13 health | | Dawnstone | 3 | High armor rating / damage (staff damage type: fire)
| +1.75 Constitution | +3% armor penetration | +15 health | | Everite | 3 | High armor rating / damage (staff damage type: electricity)
| +1 Strenght / +0.75 Constitution | +1.75% chance to stagger target on hit | +1.75% chance to stagger attacker on being hit
| | Nevarrite | 3 | High armor rating / damage (staff damage type: cold)
| +1.75 Strenght | +1.75% attack | +1.75% melee defense | | Silverite | 3 | High armor rating / damage (staff damage type: spirit) | +1.75 Constitution | +3% armor penetration | +15 health | | Stormheart | 3 | High armor rating / damage (staff damage type: electricity)
| +1 Strenght / +0.75 Constitution | +1.75% chance to stagger target on hit | +1.75% chance to stagger attacker on being hit
| | Volcanic Aurum | 3 | High armor rating / damage (staff damage type: fire) | +1.75 Constitution | +3% damage to guard | +15 health | | Fire Dragon Bone | 4 | Very high armor rating / damage (staff damage type: fire)
| +2 Constitution | +3.5% armor penetration | +16 health | | Ice Dragon Bone | 4 | Very high armor rating / damage (staff damage type: cold) | +2 Strenght | +2% attack | +2% melee defense | | Thunder Dragon Bone | 4 | Very high armor rating / damage (staff damage type: electricity)
| +1 Strenght / +1 Constitution | +2% chance to stagger target on hit | +2% chance to stagger attacker on being hit
| | Veil Quartz | 4 | Very high armor rating / damage (staff damage type: spirit)
| +2 Constitution | +3.5% armor penetration | +16 health |
I would only change tier 4 materials of clothing: | Name | Tier | Primary slot | Utility slot | Offense slot | Defense slot | | Dragon Webbing | 4 | Very high armor rating | +2 Willpower | +2% attack | +4% spirit damage resistance | | Lyrium Weave | 4 | Very high armor rating
| +1 Magic / +1 Willpower | +2.25% chance to heal on kill | +3.5% healing from all sources | | Silken Nether Cloth | 4 | Very high armor rating
| +2 Magic | +3.5% barrier damage bonus | +2% magic defense |
I would also change only tier 4 materials of leather: | Name | Tier | Primary slot | Utility slot | Offense slot | Defense slot | | Dragon Scales | 4 | Very high armor rating | +2 Cunning | +3.5% critical damage | +2% ranged defense | | Fire Dragon Hide | 4 | Very high armor rating
| +1 Dexterity / +1 Cunning
| +2% chance to sunder target on hit
| +4% fire damage resistance | | Ice Dragon Hide | 4 | Very high armor rating | +2 Dexterity | +2% critical chance | +4% cold damage resistance | | Thunder Dragon Hide | 4 | Very high armor rating
| +2 Willpower | +2% attack | +4% electricity damage resistance | | White Wyvern Hide | 4 | Very high armor rating | +1 Dexterity / +1 Cunning | +2% chance to sunder target on hit | +2% chance to sunder attacker on being hit |
Then I would introduce the new critical masterwork materials which raise stats by a certain percentage rather than by chance: | Name | Tier | Critical power | | Halla's Horns | 1 | 5% | | Great Bear Claws | 1 | 5% | | Fusing Agent | 2 | 10% | | Paragon's Stone | 2 | 10% | | Varterral's Heart | 3 | 15% | | Dragon's Tooth | 3 | 15% | | Essence of Perfection | 4 | 20% |
Finally there is the issue with ability masterwork materials which I cannot predict because I don't know which abilities and spells will be in the next game, the only thing I say about that is that they should not be random drops but instead be rewards from quests and possibly created through a separate crafting system involving essences. For example, you get in a quest an essence of guard which when mixed with a tier 1 material gives 2 guard on hit, when mixed with a tier 2 material gives 3 guard on hit, when mixed with a tier 3 material gives 5 guard on hit and when mixed with a tier 4 material gives 6 guard. In essence this system shoul stimulate players to judge best when to spent limited resources wheter to gain an early advantage with a lower tier masterwork or save up essences to make stronger masterwork materials later on. |
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Sept 13, 2021 3:14:32 GMT
The one thing I didn't like about dai's crafting system was that the power of your armour/weapons was determined by both the tier of the materials AND the tier of the schematic. You needed the highest tier of both to get the highest armour etc.
In future I'd prefer if only one of them had tiers, such as
1. The crafted items bonus types are determined by materials but the strength/power of the bonuses are determined by schematic tier
Or
2. The materials and their tier completely control the crafted items bonuses and their strength. The schematics affect the appearance of the items.
I would prefer the later as it would allow me to have my character look how I want them to while still crafting the best bonuses I can. As opposed to feeling like I have to equip a particular schematic even if I don't like it because it's the most powerful one i have (or equip looted items i don't like for the same reason). And crafting materials will make for good loot from various beasts and monsters.
I also think it would be good if when you recieve a cool and powerful loot/reward you also got the schematic. Or else could take it to your crafting table for study to acquire the schematic. That way if you're given a super cool item steeped in story significance but lacking in useful stats you can still use the schematic to equip a version that is useful.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 13, 2021 3:41:13 GMT
My biggest request in a crafting system would be transmog.
And if they decide to go with a large number of crafting mats again, having more sorting options would be helpful as well.
The specific handling of crafting, crafting bonuses, etc., I'm assuming will change anyway with combat being revised.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Sept 13, 2021 3:46:34 GMT
My biggest request in a crafting system would be transmog. And if they decide to go with a large number of crafting mats again, having more sorting options would be helpful as well. The specific handling of crafting, crafting bonuses, etc., I'm assuming will change anyway with combat being revised. What is transmog? I'm not familiar with the term. |
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 13, 2021 3:51:56 GMT
My biggest request in a crafting system would be transmog. And if they decide to go with a large number of crafting mats again, having more sorting options would be helpful as well. The specific handling of crafting, crafting bonuses, etc., I'm assuming will change anyway with combat being revised. What is transmog? I'm not familiar with the term. It's just being able to change the appearance of your gear (to any other gear you own) without changing its stats.
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Post by cribbian on Sept 13, 2021 8:43:01 GMT
Crafting is one thing I wouldn't mind if they scrapped
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Post by bloodmagereaver on Sept 13, 2021 14:52:52 GMT
Well... My biggest request in a crafting system would be transmog. And if they decide to go with a large number of crafting mats again, having more sorting options would be helpful as well. The specific handling of crafting, crafting bonuses, etc., I'm assuming will change anyway with combat being revised. Having more cosmetic option regardless of stats would be very welcome. On that side I wish they brought back the 4 independent pieces of clothing set rather than the upgrade slots we have in Inquisition. Being able to craft only head gear and full armor with only the latter accepting masterworks was a downgrade from all the bonuses we could stack in previous games. In my opinion they should also ditch class restrictions for armor and go back to stats requirements besides level. As for how many options of armor schematics we should have I believe that 48 are enough. In that regard I consider 4 tiers of schematics for 4 pieces of equipment in 3 categories of weight. When it comes to crafting slots I think we should be able to choose between utility and defense at leisure instead of being forced into a pre determined combination. I'll later post a hypothetical example of how the new system should work. |
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Post by bloodmagereaver on Sept 14, 2021 13:29:28 GMT
The idea I have is that armors should let you choose between mutually exclusive benefits to defense or utility whereas weapons should let you choose between mutually exclusive benefits to offense or utility. An example of armors: | Name | Tier | Armor slot | Utility slot / Defense slot | Utility slot / Defense slot
| Utility slot / Defense slot | | Apprentice Armor | 1 | 10 cloth | 4 cloth |
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| | | 4 leather |
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| | | | 4 metal |
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| 4 wood |
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| | Mage Armor | 2 | 17 cloth | 4 cloth | 4 cloth |
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| 4 leather | 4 leather |
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| 4 metal | 4 metal |
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| 4 wood | 4 wood |
| | Enchanter Armor | 3 | 21 cloth | 5 cloth | 4 cloth | 4 cloth |
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| 5 leather | 4 leather | 4 leather |
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| 5 metal | 4 metal | 4 metal |
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| 5 wood | 4 wood | 4 wood | | Archmage Armor | 4 | 23 cloth | 6 cloth | 5 cloth | 5 cloth |
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| 6 leather | 5 leather | 5 leather |
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| 6 metal | 5 metal | 5 metal |
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| 6 wood | 5 wood | 5 wood |
An example of weapons: | Name | Tier | Damage slot | Utility slot / Offense slot | Utility slot / Offense slot | Utility slot / Offense slot | | Apprentice Staff | 1 | 12 metal | 6 cloth |
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| 12 wood | 6 leather |
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| | | Mage Staff | 2 | 18 metal | 6 cloth | 6 cloth | |
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| 18 wood | 6 leather | 6 leather | |
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| 6 metal | 6 metal | |
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| 6 wood | 6 wood | | | Enchanter Staff | 3 | 24 metal | 8 cloth | 6 cloth | 6 cloth |
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| 24 wood | 8 leather | 6 leather | 6 leather |
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| 8 metal | 6 metal | 6 metal |
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| 8 wood | 6 wood | 6 wood | | Archmage Staff | 4 | 26 metal | 10 cloth | 8 cloth | 8 cloth |
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| 26 wood | 10 leather | 8 leather | 8 leather |
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| 10 metal | 8 metal | 8 metal |
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| 10 wood | 8 wood | 8 wood |
Instead of attribute presets per schematics, each schematic per tier is just cosmetic with materials being mutually exclusive per slot except for the armor class. In this fashion you can better mix and match materials to maximize stats the way you want it rather than being forced into a determined path. |
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Post by themikefest on Sept 14, 2021 14:34:24 GMT
I like to be able to disassemble crafted items to use those materials, not all materials since some wouldn't be reusable again, to craft something better.
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Post by xerrai on Sept 14, 2021 16:48:43 GMT
The tint table, fade-touched effects (or something similar), and a wide variety of armors are what I primarily want. Oh, and at least one method of bypassing class armor restrictions. I know that silverite bypass was probably a bug or exploit, but I really effin loved it! It allowed my elvhen knight enchanter put on some elf warrior armor that just looked so nice...
And for Maker's sake, either drop sigils entirely or revamp them. I never used those things after a few tries. If Bioware is trying to come up with new ways to customize, they can just make sigils similar to enchantment spells in DAO--able to confer a specific effect to a piece of armor but only for a limited time. You can even make them expensive to boot so player's aren't always using them. But I was never able to justify a sigil's purportedly beneficial effects given the severe tradeoff.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 14, 2021 17:07:52 GMT
The tint table, fade-touched effects (or something similar), and a wide variety of armors are what I primarily want. Oh, and at least one method of bypassing class armor restrictions. I know that silverite bypass was probably a bug or exploit, but I really effin loved it! It allowed my elvhen knight enchanter put on some elf warrior armor that just looked so nice... I'd very much say it is intended. Dales Loden Wool and Snoufleur skin do the same for cloth/leather items respectively. That's how my elven mage ended up with a Merrill-style medium armour. And I did use Silverite to put Varric into the dwarven/LoD amour. 
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Post by catcher on Sept 15, 2021 21:31:39 GMT
Call me crazy (you wouldn't be the first, fiftieth, five hundredth or so on  ) but I think any crafting system in a game like Dragon Age needs to be simpler with far fewer parts instead of more items and more complex. If you want it to be a valuable part of the game, the barrier to entry needs to be lower. There will be a smallish group that will craft anyway, but getting more Players to try and enjoy it is made more difficult if you have a list of 20 plus materials for each category with even more categories than before and multiple component slots. Perhaps a better path would be a DA2 crafting approach. fewer materials but more need to combine multiple ones in particular recipies. The game could leverage combination principles to get certain enhanced effects from a combination of certain materials that would have the effect of a whole new material, like certain metals are combined to make better alloys. I would also grab the DA2 concept of finding a resource and making it a permanent part of your allocation instead of mining/gathering/hunting/chopping? repetitively at certain sites. Grind should really not be a word ever associated with crafting in this type of game. finally, crafting should be a way to get some unique looking, neat stuff, but it should only VERY rarely equal the best gear that can be purchased at any tier. Dagna may be special, but she should not be able to easily and repeatedly best the greatest artificers of the Ages. If the best gear is either rare or very expensive, like in DA:O then crafted gear will have a better draw but those rare finds will be special as well. Thanks for offering the thoughts.  |
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Post by bloodmagereaver on Sept 16, 2021 14:41:44 GMT
Well... Call me crazy (you wouldn't be the first, fiftieth, five hundredth or so on ) but I think any crafting system in a game like Dragon Age needs to be simpler with far fewer parts instead of more items and more complex. If you want it to be a valuable part of the game, the barrier to entry needs to be lower. There will be a smallish group that will craft anyway, but getting more Players to try and enjoy it is made more difficult if you have a list of 20 plus materials for each category with even more categories than before and multiple component slots. Perhaps a better path would be a DA2 crafting approach. fewer materials but more need to combine multiple ones in particular recipies. The game could leverage combination principles to get certain enhanced effects from a combination of certain materials that would have the effect of a whole new material, like certain metals are combined to make better alloys. I would also grab the DA2 concept of finding a resource and making it a permanent part of your allocation instead of mining/gathering/hunting/chopping? repetitively at certain sites. Grind should really not be a word ever associated with crafting in this type of game. finally, crafting should be a way to get some unique looking, neat stuff, but it should only VERY rarely equal the best gear that can be purchased at any tier. Dagna may be special, but she should not be able to easily and repeatedly best the greatest artificers of the Ages. If the best gear is either rare or very expensive, like in DA:O then crafted gear will have a better draw but those rare finds will be special as well. Thanks for offering the thoughts. If it were for me I would ditch tiers 1 and 2 while only keeping tiers 3 and 4 materials and instead of several tiered schematic I would have a unique armor and a unique weapon crafted by Wade and Sandal together in a way that it's stats are determined by what materials I bring them. It would be incredibly fun to have another quest chain of crafting legendary itens like Vigilance but with more room for variety. However, since the crafting system of Inquisition is already tested and robust I take they'll just port it to the next game with minor changes and different schematics. As for surpassing previous smiths and artificers, the Wade+Sandal combination covers that department. Wade is the ultimate blacksmith of all ages and Sandal is the ultimate enchanter so anything they make together is gonna surpass the paragons, evanuris or whoever came previously. |
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Post by catcher on Sept 21, 2021 18:29:05 GMT
Well... If it were for me I would ditch tiers 1 and 2 while only keeping tiers 3 and 4 materials and instead of several tiered schematic I would have a unique armor and a unique weapon crafted by Wade and Sandal together in a way that it's stats are determined by what materials I bring them. It would be incredibly fun to have another quest chain of crafting legendary itens like Vigilance but with more room for variety. However, since the crafting system of Inquisition is already tested and robust I take they'll just port it to the next game with minor changes and different schematics. As for surpassing previous smiths and artificers, the Wade+Sandal combination covers that department. Wade is the ultimate blacksmith of all ages and Sandal is the ultimate enchanter so anything they make together is gonna surpass the paragons, evanuris or whoever came previously. I'm going to have to disagree with you on the last statement. That's nothing against Wade or Sandal (even though neither one was actually involved in making you crafts in DA:I except maybe one War Table item). I just think that it's highly likely that there have been plenty of Wades and Dagnas (Sandals notsomuch but odd ducks like him? almost definitely) during the thousands of years of history. Beyond that, there's a straight gameplay argument. Loot won during adventure or paid for at stores should (generally) be more powerful than objects that can be crafted at the same time. Otherwise, they become trivial objects (like most did in DA:I after you learned the crafting system), losing their potential as reward. Crafting should be used to allow a Player to customize some things; combine perks in ways they would prefer over what is available or apply effects to items that don't normally carry them. That way, each path offers a positive reward and Players don't have to feel like they are missing out even if they don't want to deal with crafting. That doesn't mean that everything crafted should be less powerful than what you can find or buy. Just that the requirements should be a little higher than running up and down a tunnel with a bunch of Siverite and Dawnstone deposits once you get the Tier III schematic. Think in terms of some of the assembled weapons from Baldur's Gate 2, where you had widely scattered items (like the Equalizer or the Flail of Ages) or objects that had power of their own that you had to sacrifice to obtain the single, powerful weapon (like Crom Faeyr). Very few of these components were easily available and most were attached to significant adventures. Just some thoughts. Good to talk with you. 
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) but I think any crafting system in a game like Dragon Age needs to be simpler with far fewer parts instead of more items and more complex. If you want it to be a valuable part of the game, the barrier to entry needs to be lower. There will be a smallish group that will craft anyway, but getting more Players to try and enjoy it is made more difficult if you have a list of 20 plus materials for each category with even more categories than before and multiple component slots. Perhaps a better path would be a DA2 crafting approach. fewer materials but more need to combine multiple ones in particular recipies. The game could leverage combination principles to get certain enhanced effects from a combination of certain materials that would have the effect of a whole new material, like certain metals are combined to make better alloys. I would also grab the DA2 concept of finding a resource and making it a permanent part of your allocation instead of mining/gathering/hunting/chopping? repetitively at certain sites. Grind should really not be a word ever associated with crafting in this type of game. finally, crafting should be a way to get some unique looking, neat stuff, but it should only VERY rarely equal the best gear that can be purchased at any tier. Dagna may be special, but she should not be able to easily and repeatedly best the greatest artificers of the Ages. If the best gear is either rare or very expensive, like in DA:O then crafted gear will have a better draw but those rare finds will be special as well. Thanks for offering the thoughts. 
