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Post by garrusfan1 on Dec 18, 2021 22:52:33 GMT
In the codex in DAO it says the qunari showed up in what sounded like plate armor. The qunari in DA2 wore no shirts and used basic spears. In DAI we saw them wear light armor at most during tresspasser dlc. Even the qunari warriors seemed to be wearing lighter armor. Maybe it talks about it in the comics but did they decide what to go with?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 18, 2021 22:58:52 GMT
The comics has them as kind of a mix. Some are like how they are in DA2, some in what seems to be full armor, and most like how they looked in Trespasser.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 19, 2021 7:41:24 GMT
So far as the Qunari in DA2 were concerned, they had been in a shipwrecked, so any heavy armour had to be abandoned when the ship went down. However, they do seem to have persisted with the lack of armour in DAI, including the spoils of the Qunari item pack. I suppose it could be argued that this is because most of the Qunari we encounter down south are not engaging in a major assault as part of a war effort but covertly behind the scenes for the most part and the emphasis is on speed. The Iron Bull mentioned something about this, I think, and seemed to hint we might see something different if the Qun started a major offensive again. That said, it would seem from the comics that whilst they have armour, it is not the shining silver armour described in the codex in DAO.
However, since then they have introduced the idea of vitaar, that they paint on their skins that would seem to harden it or something and it is already meant to be tougher than human skin, so someone suggested on these boards that maybe the silver sheen that the enemies took to be metal armour was some sort of special vitaar. I don't subscribe to that myself because they were at war with the Qunari for long enough in earlier ages that I think people would have realised if it wasn't shining metal armour. So I think we may have to accept that the designers just changed their mind on that one.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 19, 2021 7:44:00 GMT
The Codex was also about a war from centuries ago. It’s not unlikely that since then the Qun changed their defensive methods.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 19, 2021 7:50:35 GMT
That could also be an explanation. In fact, since we hadn't heard about vitaar before, it is possible that this was developed by the Qun since coming to Thedas specifically to reduce the need for heavy armour.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Dec 19, 2021 14:06:43 GMT
The Codex was also about a war from centuries ago. It’s not unlikely that since then the Qun changed their defensive methods. So the qunari are stupid then. The only reason plate armor went out of fashion in the real world was because gunpowder made it pointless. There is a reason people spent fortunes on armor in the real world and it was because it provided a large advantage. Armor didn't make you slow like so many think. The heavy plate armor that was worn actually weighed about the same as the gear and body armor that a modern soldier carries around. However you either had to use a heavy bludgeon weapon to get through it, or rather negate it and break bones and such, or stab tiny holes in the gaps. Meanwhile if your not wearing armor he can stab anywhere and isn't gonna stand still to let you aim at those places. I am not directing this rant at you since you are probably right. It just makes no sense to me. since the qunari army is a standing army full of proffesional soldiers and yet they won't be well equipped? I mean I get them not wearing a helmet since the horns would get in the way but the rest...
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Post by garrusfan1 on Dec 19, 2021 14:10:08 GMT
That could also be an explanation. In fact, since we hadn't heard about vitaar before, it is possible that this was developed by the Qun since coming to Thedas specifically to reduce the need for heavy armour. Armor also negates some of the force that a weapon hits with. Unless they are gonna say the qunari are far stronger and far more durable then humans to an extremem level then it won't work. A sword that hits you hard will hurt and even if it doesn't cut into you it will still hurt. Axes,maces,warhammers,and spears would be even worse. But why let common sense get in the way of a cool design. Again this rant is not directed at you. I love history and history has shown that armor was only abandoned when gunpowder weapons became dominate over everything else and rendered armor obsolete for centuries. Now we have kevlar and such.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 19, 2021 16:32:00 GMT
But why let common sense get in the way of a cool design. Again this rant is not directed at you. To be honest I was one of the first to question to design change when I saw the Spoils of Qunari designs, which seemed to confirm they had totally dropped the idea of the Qunari using superior metal armour in favour of something clearly inferior just so they could show lots of bulging muscles and bare flesh. They were using rope cords for goodness sake! Still, since they clearly had decided to go with design over function, I was just trying to come up with an explanation for why it changed. I've never understood why painting some substance on yourself is going to reduce the need for full armour but that's what they seemed to be saying. Incidentally, I didn't like using Bull precisely because he didn't seem properly protected to me and kept getting himself either knocked out or badly injured enough that he kept knocking back and using up my healing potions. This was particularly true of dragon fights which he so loved. May be I had the wrong build or something but I found Cassandra far better in a dragon fight, which lore-wise made sense considering her family.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Dec 19, 2021 18:13:00 GMT
Incidentally, I didn't like using Bull precisely because he didn't seem properly protected to me and kept getting himself either knocked out or badly injured enough that he kept knocking back and using up my healing potions. This was particularly true of dragon fights which he so loved. May be I had the wrong build or something but I found Cassandra far better in a dragon fight, which lore-wise made sense considering her family. Yeah, I also experienced a full 2h Bull making indiscriminate use of most of his health-draining Reaver stuff to be about as squishy as a rogue. Built into more Weapon&Shield style, it's okay though. Funny thing is, while default Bull's armour pretty much looks like qunari Obelix, some higher-tier pieces have him sport a leather chestpiece or a metal chestplate which might come with pauldrons.
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Post by bear on Dec 20, 2021 9:53:06 GMT
Incidentally, I didn't like using Bull precisely because he didn't seem properly protected to me and kept getting himself either knocked out or badly injured enough that he kept knocking back and using up my healing potions. This was particularly true of dragon fights which he so loved. May be I had the wrong build or something but I found Cassandra far better in a dragon fight, which lore-wise made sense considering her family. Yeah, I also experienced a full 2h Bull making indiscriminate use of most of his health-draining Reaver stuff to be about as squishy as a rogue. Built into more Weapon&Shield style, it's okay though. Funny thing is, while default Bull's armour pretty much looks like qunari Obelix, some higher-tier pieces have him sport a leather chestpiece or a metal chestplate which might come with pauldrons. I always make sure to use the plate-ish looking armor for IB precisely the reason that IB's "pillowy manbusom" just wouldn't make sense as being as good at deflecting axes as plate armor. Otoh, you can stab people through plate armor (as in, through the actual plate with non-magical weapons) in the DA universe, so realism on that count is perhaps too much to wish for.
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Post by mattjamho on Dec 20, 2021 11:14:06 GMT
I usually get Iron Bull in this armour set, I wonder if actual Qunari Plate mail is similar?
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Post by Beerfish on Dec 20, 2021 16:42:44 GMT
Just how is Iron Bull supposed to flash his pecs in plate armor? Tell me that!
Woman complain of chain mail bikinis and boob armor and yet we men are expected to have nothing covering our chest regions!
It's all some kind of unfair grand conspiracy!
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Post by Iakus on Dec 23, 2021 16:08:56 GMT
Incidentally, I didn't like using Bull precisely because he didn't seem properly protected to me and kept getting himself either knocked out or badly injured enough that he kept knocking back and using up my healing potions. This was particularly true of dragon fights which he so loved. May be I had the wrong build or something but I found Cassandra far better in a dragon fight, which lore-wise made sense considering her family. Yeah, I also experienced a full 2h Bull making indiscriminate use of most of his health-draining Reaver stuff to be about as squishy as a rogue. Built into more Weapon&Shield style, it's okay though. Funny thing is, while default Bull's armour pretty much looks like qunari Obelix, some higher-tier pieces have him sport a leather chestpiece or a metal chestplate which might come with pauldrons. I would ONLY equip him in armor with a metal chestplate.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 23, 2021 16:10:22 GMT
Yeah, I also experienced a full 2h Bull making indiscriminate use of most of his health-draining Reaver stuff to be about as squishy as a rogue. Built into more Weapon&Shield style, it's okay though. Funny thing is, while default Bull's armour pretty much looks like qunari Obelix, some higher-tier pieces have him sport a leather chestpiece or a metal chestplate which might come with pauldrons. I always make sure to use the plate-ish looking armor for IB precisely the reason that IB's "pillowy manbusom" just wouldn't make sense as being as good at deflecting axes as plate armor. Particularly since there's a banter where he compliments Cassandra for being smart enough not to wear Boob Plate.
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Post by bear on Dec 23, 2021 18:28:25 GMT
I always make sure to use the plate-ish looking armor for IB precisely the reason that IB's "pillowy manbusom" just wouldn't make sense as being as good at deflecting axes as plate armor. Particularly since there's a banter where he compliments Cassandra for being smart enough not to wear Boob Plate. Who needs Boob Plate when Red Vitaar gives you Plate Boobs?
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 24, 2021 7:48:23 GMT
I was re-reading a passage from Tevinter Nights and it would seem that the writers are going with the idea that Vitaar makes the skin ultra hard so it is actually stronger than armour. From "Genetivi Dies in the End" about the appearance of Rasaan:
"The paint, vitaar, hardened the skin and was toxic to non-Qunari, meaning the armour was actually the weaker link in her defense."
However, that said, the armour she was using was leather armour held together by red ropes, as in the Qunari armour pack, so there probably wouldn't be much difference between the two. There also seems to be the implication that the toxicity of the vitaar is what makes it superior to the leather armour. Whether this is because it gives off some sort of smell that affects the enemy or because it harms them if they touch it is unclear but, if the latter, then that advantage would likely be offset by the fact that most enemies would also be wearing armour and gauntlets that would protect them from it.
I still think that proper plate armour would be superior to using leather armour combined with vitaar over the bare portions of skin and this does seem borne out by my experience with the Iron Bull.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Dec 28, 2021 20:50:14 GMT
There is an exchange between The Iron Bull and Dorian where Bull tells Dorian that if ever saw a qunari warrior in full armor to run because that would mean full scale war and he also IMPLIES that this is really the only time when wear full armor. It can also be that qunari have different armors for say warriors and say archers that would normally be in the back.
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Post by Iakus on Dec 29, 2021 0:16:25 GMT
There is an exchange between The Iron Bull and Dorian where Bull tells Dorian that if ever saw a qunari warrior in full armor to run because that would mean full scale war and he also IMPLIES that this is really the only time when wear full armor. It can also be that qunari have different armors for say warriors and say archers that would normally be in the back. Qunari always seemed more pragmatic than that...
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 29, 2021 8:20:58 GMT
There is an exchange between The Iron Bull and Dorian where Bull tells Dorian that if ever saw a qunari warrior in full armor to run because that would mean full scale war and he also IMPLIES that this is really the only time when wear full armor. The trouble is no one seems to have told the illustrator of the comics because the Qunari there are now engaged in full scale war and yet still seem to have armour based on the Spoils of the Qun armour pack. Also see what is said about the Qunari we find in the Winter Palace: So that is meant to be a Qunari warrior in full armour and yet it still seems to be based around leather and ropes with areas of bare flesh, such as the midriff, probably the most vulnerable area on a fighter that doesn't use a shield. I think they have definitely abandoned the idea that the Qunari were technologically ahead of the rest of Thedas and producing superior metal armour even back in the Steel Age, let alone 300 years later. If they were wearing superior metal armour back then, they seem to have regressed in the intervening period.
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