theascendent
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: The Ascendent
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Post by theascendent on Jan 31, 2022 22:18:33 GMT
Been playing the new Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous game and a thought occurred to me as I was playing. Dragon Age is heavily inspired by Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, games that use the D&D setting and world to establish their classes. Pathfinder follows a similar line in its world building and class system. As I imagine how the next Dragon Age will be like, I wonder how they will implement Magi as a class. I also wonder lore wise how you would classify Magi as an Arcane caster. Are they Wizards, who learn and study magic. Sorcerers, who were born with magic. Or Warlocks/Witches who were given magic by their patron? Or are they none of the above and while taking inspiration from these classes are separate enough to be unique. I ask this because I want to see more variety in how magic is implemented in Dragon Age. Social and utility spells make for a more enjoyable game. Seeing how other RPG's handle their own magic systems is fascinating. At least for me.
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Post by necrowaif on Feb 1, 2022 5:55:19 GMT
Well, since their abilities are innate, that’s one point in the Sorceror column. However, sorcerers in D&D have draconic heritage, which mages in Dragon Age don’t have (unless they’re Qunari … maybe). Plus, they have to study how to use their gifts, so I would say they lean more towards being Wizards.
The only mage that would truly count as a witch/warlock is a blood mage, and that’s only if they got their magic via a deal with a demon or some other higher power (cough cough Flemeth cough cough).
Of course, given how all magic comes from the Fade, which is a psychic dimension, you could also make the argument that DA mages are actually psionics flavoured with a dash of wizard.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Feb 1, 2022 8:38:54 GMT
Sorcerers don't only gain their power from dragon ancestry in dnd 5th edition. They have 7 different sorcerous origins to choose from that form their subclasses.
Mages power is innate, they're born with it, and while they use study and practise to learn how to control it - hedge mages exist whom have had no training and can still use their power in different ways. So I'd say a circle of magi mage is like if you take your first level or two as sorcerer and then multiclass to wizard for the rest of your levels. Where as a hedge mage is more like a straight sorcerer. Blood mages would choose the new blood magic subclass for wizards when they multiclass over, since I think they learn how to use blood magic from the demon rather then making them more powerful per se (unless they're being possessed, there isn't really a class for that in dnd, thats a hand your character sheet to the dm situation.)
The closest thing to warlocks (aswell as paladins and clerics, classes who are given power by other entities) in dragon age would be spirit warriors, who are not mages but are granted magical powers by a spirit/s.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 1, 2022 19:45:07 GMT
The mages do not really approximate to any of the magical classes in D&D. This is because they have never really clarified what exactly is the difference between one source of magic and another in terms of where they derive their power but all seem to have natural ability to a greater or lesser degree and you do not need a spell book to do magic. Instruction seems merely useful in helping defend the mind against demon possession and making the individual aware of the possibilities open to them. So they are really Sorcerers, at least if they are deriving their power from the Fade.*
There are different ways in which mages draw their power. This was mentioned in discussions between Solas and Vivienne in DAI. She remarked how Corypheus was drawing from 3 sources of magic: his own; the Blight and the orb (elven). The Last Flight also seemed to suggest that there are 3 different places from which magical beings can draw their power: the Fade, blood magic and (presumably) the Void or the Blight itself, seeing as the Archdemon appeared to draw its power from somewhere other than the Fade. There is some sort of cross-over as well seeing as we now know that lyrium is actually organic and derives from the blood of titans, whilst red lyrium is tainted with the blight. So in some ways, if you are using lyrium, normal or red, to augment your natural mana, it is really all just blood magic.
So I will be happy if they can finally explain how these alternative power sources to the Fade work, particularly blood magic. Does it require a deal with a demon or not? Does the sacrificial element just refer to the fact that you are giving up one source of energy, the life force of blood, in order to acquire another? If so, how does that work? If not, and the demon pact is essential, is the blood some sort of sacrificial offering to them? Surely the spirit/demon is in the Fade though, so why is it apparent to another mage that you are not drawing your power from there? Why does blood magic thin the Veil and make it easier for demons or morals to pass through it, yet Solas says it interferes with his connection to the Fade? Why is the Veil thinner in places where there have been prolonged levels of magical activity or a very large concentration of it (such as a magical explosion)? Why did Solas suggest that the explosion at the Temple of Sacred Ashes may have been what caused the red lyrium to be present there?
*EDIT: Of course in addition to everything else there are the Spirit Healers who are definitely said to be aided by benign spirits of the Fade but how exactly is that power channeled? Not to mention Seekers who are not even mages and yet have powers granted by a spirit that seem magical in nature. Some Seekers have the ability to ignite the lyrium in the blood of a mage in much the same way that a blood mage can boil the blood of their victims, which suggests both are using a similar source of power.
The other difference in D&D is of course that gods can grant power to their faithful. The only similar thing in Thedas is the beliefs of the Avvar (and possibly also Rivain) but that is only because they recognise the fact that their "gods" are simply spirits of the Fade, so really obtaining power in much the same way as a spirit healer I presume. The Old Gods taught humans magical theory but I don't think they granted power in any way different to that of the Avvar.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Feb 2, 2022 6:31:44 GMT
People are sent to circles when their innate magic is discovered, typically by accident. One can't study to become a mage in DA. You're either a mage or you're not.
Sorceror.
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Post by xerrai on Feb 3, 2022 16:52:45 GMT
People are sent to circles when their innate magic is discovered, typically by accident. One can't study to become a mage in DA. You're either a mage or you're not. Sorceror. What about Spirit Warriors? Or Seekers? Or whatever Valta became at the end of the Decent DLC? I guess those guys would be closer to Warlocks/Clerics since they typically derive their power from what they perceive as a 'god'. And what about Templar abilities? They can call it whatever they want due to religious dogma, but at the end of the day I'd argue they use a form of magic derived from lyrium (or the Maker, if the Chantry is to be believed). It's just that, much like Blight magic, their magic doesn't originate from the fade.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 3, 2022 19:29:43 GMT
And what about Templar abilities? Basically it would seem it is just another sort of blood magic. The whole Chantry attitude to blood magic is highly hypocritical, although I suppose to be fair they didn't know that lyrium is in fact blood. How exactly do non mages derive their power with this though? Solas talked about reinforcing reality by pushing back against the Fade but that still doesn't explain why it works or how it derives its power. However, look at the way Spirit Healers and Seekers (and likely Spirit Warriors too) get their power through interacting with spirits and in the latter case would actually seem to be possessed in some way without knowing it because otherwise how on earth do they derive their powers considering they aren't even mages? Now an Avvar Augur would likely call it a gift of the gods and may be a Rivaini Seer would too but they have no illusions that the person with the gift is possessed. Since the spirit originates in the Fade, presumably it still derives its power from there in some way. After all, didn't Karl say that Justice had effectively brought a piece of the Fade across with him? As for Valta, she derived her power through making a direct connection with a titan. Which makes me wonder, what did the elves do to the dwarves that cut them off from the titans because in some ways it was a form of tranquility. Is that why dwarves don't dream? Yet the old rhyme we found in Trespasser seemed to suggest that Mythal was the one who gave the dwarves dreams they didn't previously have. Did Solas raising the Veil screw over everyone and not just the elves? Since every race seems to have some sort of amnesia or at least selective memory, when it comes to history pre-Veil, was it the Veil that did this?
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theascendent
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: The Ascendent
Posts: 623 Likes: 824
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theascendent
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by theascendent on Feb 4, 2022 17:25:37 GMT
When in doubt, blame Solas.
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