apollexander
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Post by apollexander on Feb 24, 2022 13:17:22 GMT
Once the blueprint is complete, the Production phase begins. Production is all about executing on the blueprint: taking those ideas and turning them into a working game Our blueprint was completed last year, This is new information because originally we understood that pre-production (the blueprint) was completed around March 2020 (based off a presentation by one of the team that said as much). This also seemed backed up by the fact that they started to release information from Summer 2020 onwards, showcasing actual characters, concept art, game play mechanics, etc. Yet this latest official blog states that the blueprint was only completed last year, in other words 2021. This would explain why we shouldn't expect the game until late 2023 at the earliest. For the next Dragon Age, we are right in the middle of Production, If this is literally true then I would guess that pre-production finalised in Spring 2021 (as opposed to 2020) and thus full production has been underway for around 1 year. This would mean they would be at Alpha stage by around the same time next year, which I assume would fit with a late autumn release date. Am I right? According to one of Mark Darrah's videos, they finished pre-production but later fell into pre-production again. That's part of the reason why he left Bioware. I think that may involve the transition to a single-player focused game. Last year they had completed the latter pre-production.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 24, 2022 14:33:13 GMT
I think that may involve the transition to a single-player focused game. Last year they had completed the latter pre-production. Well that would fit with the timescale I have suggested because it was around this time last year that we got that leak about dropping multi-player, so as you say the blueprint for a single-player focused game wasn't finalised until then. |
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 24, 2022 15:27:02 GMT
"The game’s Production Director is Mac Walters,"URK!
Hm... moved up from lead writer for ME2.
Good luck, then Mac.
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 24, 2022 15:47:24 GMT
This is new information because originally we understood that pre-production (the blueprint) was completed around March 2020 (based off a presentation by one of the team that said as much). This also seemed backed up by the fact that they started to release information from Summer 2020 onwards, showcasing actual characters, concept art, game play mechanics, etc. Yet this latest official blog states that the blueprint was only completed last year, in other words 2021. This would explain why we shouldn't expect the game until late 2023 at the earliest. If this is literally true then I would guess that pre-production finalised in Spring 2021 (as opposed to 2020) and thus full production has been underway for around 1 year. This would mean they would be at Alpha stage by around the same time next year, which I assume would fit with a late autumn release date. Am I right? According to one of Mark Darrah's videos, they finished pre-production but later fell into pre-production again. That's part of the reason why he left Bioware. I think that may involve the transition to a single-player focused game. Last year they had completed the latter pre-production.
OK, let me get this straight. DA4 was in pre-production. Then EA told Bio to remove MP and go strictly to a RPG SP game. Back into-pre-production, followed by a one year delay to get the new blue print stamped for approval.
Reading between the lines, if it took one year to get deep characters, emotional cinematics.. et al, What on earth were we getting with the original live-service MP game? A short 3 hr RPG story to appease the fan base and all MP combat? More nerfed mage spells? A four-man fire-team à la Anthem?
I shudder....
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 24, 2022 16:23:06 GMT
According to one of Mark Darrah's videos, they finished pre-production but later fell into pre-production again. That's part of the reason why he left Bioware. I think that may involve the transition to a single-player focused game. Last year they had completed the latter pre-production.
OK, let me get this straight. DA4 was in pre-production. Then EA told Bio to remove MP and go strictly to a RPG SP game. Back into-pre-production, followed by a one year delay to get the new blue print stamped for approval.
Reading between the lines, if it took one year to get deep characters, emotional cinematics.. et al, What on earth were we getting with the original live-service MP game? A short 3 hr RPG story to appease the fan base and all MP combat? More nerfed mage spells? A four-man fire-team à la Anthem?
I shudder....
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Post by colfoley on Feb 24, 2022 18:07:24 GMT
This is new information because originally we understood that pre-production (the blueprint) was completed around March 2020 (based off a presentation by one of the team that said as much). This also seemed backed up by the fact that they started to release information from Summer 2020 onwards, showcasing actual characters, concept art, game play mechanics, etc. Yet this latest official blog states that the blueprint was only completed last year, in other words 2021. This would explain why we shouldn't expect the game until late 2023 at the earliest. If this is literally true then I would guess that pre-production finalised in Spring 2021 (as opposed to 2020) and thus full production has been underway for around 1 year. This would mean they would be at Alpha stage by around the same time next year, which I assume would fit with a late autumn release date. Am I right? According to one of Mark Darrah's videos, they finished pre-production but later fell into pre-production again. That's part of the reason why he left Bioware. I think that may involve the transition to a single-player focused game. Last year they had completed the latter pre-production. what Darah video? Was this before or after he left bioware? When would this shift supposedly have taken place? Has bioware released any corroborative statements in support of this? The only thing I have seen from them has been 'we are in production' since the BTS video. Has there been any other corrobative sources beyond this? The Scrier article certainly never mentioned this kind of retooling and he would have loved it. Ditto for Jeff Ghub. |
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Post by luketrevelyan on Feb 24, 2022 18:19:18 GMT
According to one of Mark Darrah's videos, they finished pre-production but later fell into pre-production again. That's part of the reason why he left Bioware. I think that may involve the transition to a single-player focused game. Last year they had completed the latter pre-production. what Darah video? Was this before or after he left bioware? When would this shift supposedly have taken place? Has bioware released any corroborative statements in support of this? The only thing I have seen from them has been 'we are in production' since the BTS video. Has there been any other corrobative sources beyond this? The Scrier article certainly never mentioned this kind of retooling and he would have loved it. Ditto for Jeff Ghub. I also remember hearing something similar. It was after he left BioWare but I only have a vague recollection of it and don't know the source. It was something like Mark saying he didn't have it in him to go through another pre-prod phase, which I always thought was weird no one really picked up on it so kind of brushed it aside. But now with the blog post saying prod started in 2021 when previous BTS video from 2020 said they were in early production, it does sound like they must have gone back to pre-prod for at least a short time in there. Probably why 2021 ended up being quiet compared to 2020.
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Post by wickedcool on Feb 24, 2022 18:23:10 GMT
So was the video solas presentation misleading 2 years ago or was that for the cancelled version of the game. Was it unusual to go and make this well before the stage they were at was completed
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Post by colfoley on Feb 24, 2022 18:26:31 GMT
what Darah video? Was this before or after he left bioware? When would this shift supposedly have taken place? Has bioware released any corroborative statements in support of this? The only thing I have seen from them has been 'we are in production' since the BTS video. Has there been any other corrobative sources beyond this? The Scrier article certainly never mentioned this kind of retooling and he would have loved it. Ditto for Jeff Ghub. I also remember hearing something similar. It was after he left BioWare but I only have a vague recollection of it and don't know the source. It was something like Mark saying he didn't have it in him to go through another pre-prod phase, which I always thought was weird no one really picked up on it so kind of brushed it aside. But now with the blog post saying prod started in 2021 when previous BTS video from 2020 said they were in early production, it does sound like they must have gone back to pre-prod for at least a short time in there. Probably why 2021 ended up being quiet compared to 2020. since we are so early in the year (has ea even entered 2022?) 'Last year' could easily mean 2020. |
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Post by luketrevelyan on Feb 24, 2022 18:36:31 GMT
I also remember hearing something similar. It was after he left BioWare but I only have a vague recollection of it and don't know the source. It was something like Mark saying he didn't have it in him to go through another pre-prod phase, which I always thought was weird no one really picked up on it so kind of brushed it aside. But now with the blog post saying prod started in 2021 when previous BTS video from 2020 said they were in early production, it does sound like they must have gone back to pre-prod for at least a short time in there. Probably why 2021 ended up being quiet compared to 2020. since we are so early in the year (has ea even entered 2022?) 'Last year' could easily mean 2020. Yeah I'm not really too concerned either way. They are in the middle of production now and supposedly hitting their targets and milestones, so whatever phases happened in there things seem to be (back) on track.
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Spectr61
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Post by Spectr61 on Feb 24, 2022 18:59:26 GMT
+10 ME3 endings by Mac Walters - fail. MEA dev process by Mac Walters - fail. Anthem dev process by Mac Walters - fail. At least Casey Hudson, with the same type of involvement had the decency to leave. Twice. Blower has had leadership failure after leadership failure for at least the last decade, with "Super Mac" front and center. But, this time will be different....... Andromeda was already in deep shits when Walters was brought in, and if Schreier's article rings true, then all he did was basically pull the devs out of the inane fuckery that was their pre-production and finalize what was up and about. Andromeda's failures cannot, in good faith, be attributed to its time under Walters, because they predate his time as Game Director.
And IIRC, his role in Anthem's actual dev process was quite lesser, compared to his time with Andromeda. Even bigger fuckery abound with that one, and I don't recall any insider account on the game's development lob anything on him in particular.
Quite literally, the only thing you get right is his role in ME3's endings.
Now compare all that to this game, which so far appears to have everything laid down in terms of what it's meant to be and appears to be going pretty well from most accounts. Granted, the final arbiter of all that will be when the game's actually out and in players' hands, but until then, we take insider info and these updates where applicable.
This excessive degree of overgeneralization (bordering on outright misinformation) does no one, including you, any favors.
No excuses, fanboy, just facts. Mac Walters - credits: Mass Effect 3 - Lead Writer. Mass Effect Andromeda - Creative Director. Anthem - IP Director. www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,179405/ To me, those are all leadership roles. And from my perspective, failures are attributed to leadership.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 24, 2022 19:06:48 GMT
Failures are usually not about just one person though in my experience.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 24, 2022 19:20:55 GMT
It should be noted though if the game is set to drop late 2023 to early 2024 then we won't see marketing till the earliest this years game awards or next years ea play. In terms of major marketing anyways.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 24, 2022 20:13:59 GMT
since we are so early in the year (has ea even entered 2022?) 'Last year' could easily mean 2020. If we are going by fiscal years, which is what EA usually work to, then we are in fiscal year 2022. So last year could mean fiscal 2021, which stretched back as far as April 2020, which could fit with the original timeline. However, I think in this case it is more likely they were talking in calendar years, so last year means during 2021. So was the video solas presentation misleading 2 years ago or was that for the cancelled version of the game. Was it unusual to go and make this well before the stage they were at was completed I doubt that was anything to do with the cancelled multi-player element. However, if multi-player had some influence on the outcome of the single player game (as with ME3), there may have needed to be some adjustments to balance the single player and may be even some story aspects carried over so they were not lost entirely. Also, characters used in multi-player may have been dropped entirely from mention in the main game. So they may have had to drop back into pre-production in order to hash out the revisions they needed to make. We did wonder at the time if the dropping of multi-player would have any impact on the release. We shall probably never know whether it did but only that it probably did require setting new milestone targets and these are now being met.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 24, 2022 20:19:16 GMT
since we are so early in the year (has ea even entered 2022?) 'Last year' could easily mean 2020. If we are going by fiscal years, which is what EA usually work to, then we are in fiscal year 2022. So last year could mean fiscal 2021, which stretched back as far as April 2020, which could fit with the original timeline. However, I think in this case it is more likely they were talking in calendar years, so last year means during 2021. So was the video solas presentation misleading 2 years ago or was that for the cancelled version of the game. Was it unusual to go and make this well before the stage they were at was completed I doubt that was anything to do with the cancelled multi-player element. However, if multi-player had some influence on the outcome of the single player game (as with ME3), there may have needed to be some adjustments to balance the single player and may be even some story aspects carried over so they were not lost entirely. Also, characters used in multi-player may have been dropped entirely from mention in the main game. So they may have had to drop back into pre-production in order to hash out the revisions they needed to make. We did wonder at the time if the dropping of multi-player would have any impact on the release. We shall probably never know whether it did but only that it probably did require setting new milestone targets and these are now being met. As I pointed out we are still talking averages though. I only just get used to this even being 2022 and even then maybe still struggling a little.  So I don't think its unreasonable to assume they were talking about 2020 in the blog post and even find it a stretch to assume they did mean 2021...especially when there seems to be no evidence from BioWare itself on the subject.
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Spectr61
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Post by Spectr61 on Feb 24, 2022 20:26:16 GMT
Failures are usually not about just one person though in my experience. Agreed. Though leadership has to have some accountability. At least in my view.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 24, 2022 20:50:06 GMT
I will say it goes back to my own experiences as a grunt worker and that Bill Bellichick coach about coaches loosing games so usually in a situation like this if anything 'management' has to bear the most responsibility for failure. And I think this has a great deal to do with Bios problems.
But then it comes down to two issues.
1. 'Management' in this case for BioWare is a lot of people. They have a whole nother company above them they are answerable to and given the chaotic nature of Anthem's development...and ultimatley short...I think we had managers and leaders coming and going at all times.
2. It is possible to learn from ones mistakes. While I am more then frustrated at the six years of dev time DA 4 will end up getting for my own reasons and my own theories I also have to acknowledge the possibility that this is an indication that EA has also learned its lesson. That maybe with all the issues DA 4 has had maybe EA is willing to give them time to work through them and there was a blog post or something I think years ago at this point which indicates that they recognize that not every one of their games can be developped at the same amount of time, that they will have games coming out large and small, those that take months, and those that take years.
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Post by apollexander on Feb 25, 2022 2:07:59 GMT
According to one of Mark Darrah's videos, they finished pre-production but later fell into pre-production again. That's part of the reason why he left Bioware. I think that may involve the transition to a single-player focused game. Last year they had completed the latter pre-production. what Darah video? Was this before or after he left bioware? When would this shift supposedly have taken place? Has bioware released any corroborative statements in support of this? The only thing I have seen from them has been 'we are in production' since the BTS video. Has there been any other corrobative sources beyond this? The Scrier article certainly never mentioned this kind of retooling and he would have loved it. Ditto for Jeff Ghub. This one: , around 25:00, though his accent sounded a bit vague and I can't get the exact phrase.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 25, 2022 2:16:55 GMT
Failures are usually not about just one person though in my experience. Yeah, it's just something that clickbait Youtubers love to make up because it sounds more dramatic.
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Post by eternalambiguity on Feb 25, 2022 18:58:58 GMT
Failures are usually not about just one person though in my experience. Yeah, it's just something that clickbait Youtubers love to make up because it sounds more dramatic. And gamers piggyback onto because outrage culture is all the rage (heh).
As for the update, good to hear. I'd imagine this means the end of 2023 for the game, likely with a showing at E3 (or whatever online equivalent) this year and next. But we'll see--no need to hang any hats on predictions.
For some reason I felt like we already knew about Walters being on the game, but as someone who took part in the excellent ME3, and the person who wrestled (rescued?) the meandering development of Andromeda into a functional release, I have no real concerns there.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 25, 2022 20:38:15 GMT
what Darah video? Was this before or after he left bioware? When would this shift supposedly have taken place? Has bioware released any corroborative statements in support of this? The only thing I have seen from them has been 'we are in production' since the BTS video. Has there been any other corrobative sources beyond this? The Scrier article certainly never mentioned this kind of retooling and he would have loved it. Ditto for Jeff Ghub. This one: , around 25:00, though his accent sounded a bit vague and I can't get the exact phrase. I got from that that he wasn't talking about the game going back into pre production. What he was talking about there was they were gearing up for production and they were chomping at the bit to be in production but that required its own training and processes to get into...and that is the reason why he decided to leave ultimatley. Yeah, it's just something that clickbait Youtubers love to make up because it sounds more dramatic. And gamers piggyback onto because outrage culture is all the rage (heh).
As for the update, good to hear. I'd imagine this means the end of 2023 for the game, likely with a showing at E3 (or whatever online equivalent) this year and next. But we'll see--no need to hang any hats on predictions.
For some reason I felt like we already knew about Walters being on the game, but as someone who took part in the excellent ME3, and the person who wrestled (rescued?) the meandering development of Andromeda into a functional release, I have no real concerns there.
This is a refreshing spin on things. And I will admit to even though my initial reaction to the news was...mixed...and even though a lot of people including myself have tended to pin the ME 3 endings on him...and that might even have some fairness since he was the lead writer. But on the other hand he is still here. And the public perception of EA is certainly that they do not tolerate failure. Now i do not think that is true in the grand sense of schemes, afterall BioWare itself is still here, but I think if he were a great fuckup and actually responsible for ME 3...and actually responsible for Anthem...and actually responsible for Andromeda. He wouldn't be here. EA would have gotten rid of him either because the pressure would have gotten to him or just straight fired him. So its possible while, still making mistakes, he is a lot more competent then we all give him credit for and is a hard worker and maybe a good leader so this could end up being very good news for Dragon Age long term.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 25, 2022 21:45:20 GMT
And I will admit to even though my initial reaction to the news was...mixed...and even though a lot of people including myself have tended to pin the ME 3 endings on him...and that might even have some fairness since he was the lead writer. Bear in mind that, apart from the endings, I thought that ME3 was generally well received and tied off a lot of the story lines in a satisfying way. The legendary edition was also a success which would also suggest that overall he did a good job as lead writer. If he was responsible for the ending to ME3, presumably he also led the attempt to fix it with the free DLC and probably also learned from that experience and subsequent ones. So, considering he has been around during the events of the last few years, he likely has a better insight into how things should not be done than most. Anyway, this time round he is not lead writer or Creative Director, so not likely to have much input on the actual narrative.
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Post by river82 on Feb 25, 2022 22:52:25 GMT
and the person who wrestled (rescued?) the meandering development of Andromeda into a functional release, I have no real concerns there. This is my view as well. He gets a lot of flak but he's been placed in some really rough situations.
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Post by Adia on Feb 27, 2022 1:32:40 GMT
Regarding Mac Walters - there's no excuse for the Mass Effect 3 endings. They're unforgivable. I just wanted to destroy the reapers and have a Dragon Age epilogue. They really didn't need to do more than that for me to be satisfied.
However, credit where it's due, and I know this is going to ruffle some feathers, but there are things ME:A does better than MET. If he had more time, and a couple more rewrites and editors, I think the story could've been a lot stronger because like it or hate it, there are interesting stuff in ME:A and I'd go back to it in a heartbeat.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 27, 2022 7:24:58 GMT
Regarding Mac Walters - there's no excuse for the Mass Effect 3 endings. They're unforgivable. I just wanted to destroy the reapers and have a Dragon Age epilogue. They really didn't need to do more than that for me to be satisfied. However, credit where it's due, and I know this is going to ruffle some feathers, but there are things ME:A does better than MET. If he had more time, and a couple more rewrites and editors, I think the story could've been a lot stronger because like it or hate it, there are interesting stuff in ME:A and I'd go back to it in a heartbeat. I agree that there were good ideas in Andromeda. I think the problem is between the developer level and EA where BioWare leadership sits, for my experience with projects is that things need to be cut or altered from the vary start if things aren't working out the way you want them to. So BioWare got stuck with a longer then normal crunch cycle because they normally crunch for about a month and then any delays the game has. Which is why I don't think giving them more time would have worked because they would have been just more days of crunch. To me things like procedural content should have been axed quickly if it wasn't working or even if they were just running low on time to get other areas working. I don't have a full grasp of the development, but making decisions like that early is a good approach instead of wasting a month or even more of project time.
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