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So far 2024 is the same as the previous three years...
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Feb 26, 2022 12:40:44 GMT
So I have an old photograph that has been transposed onto a wooden plaque....I've always thought it would make an amazing painting. Through work, I"ve been put in touch with two high school students who want to do this painting for me as a favour. I am insistent that I pay for materials....But I would also like to give them (or him/her, a single student....whomever I choose) a little something extra for the gesture. I don't want to be totally cheap and just throw 20.00 or even 50.00 dollars at them......But I'm also not going to be insanely lavish and say "here. Here's 650.00 dollars" (I could buy a professional painting for that much).
I want to be generous with my offer....But I also want to be fair and reasonable (with an amount they would be comfortable accepting). I have spoken with a colleague of mine and they have said "painting a piece like this takes a LOT of time and effort....I mean I've had instances in the past where people just give students 100 or 200 dollars and that is cheap and takes advantage."
If you use the simple formula of say 3.00 dollar per inch at 16x20 (300 inches total) that comes to 960.00 dollars. There's no way I'm giving a 15 year old nearly 1000 dollars! I could buy a professional painting (by Car Brenders or Joh Sierrey-Lester) for that much.
I want to be generous but also fair. If I had a painting that was at least 16x 20......How much should I offer that is fair but also generous?
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Post by rewindbutton on Feb 26, 2022 13:35:19 GMT
Artists are so unappreciated. But yeah, that's a tough one. Mu gut instinct would be USD $200 plus expenses, depending on the outcome. I'm no artist, but I did do a fully illustrated technical manual once. The manual was 40 pages long, and had several detailed CAD illustrations. I offered to do it for (inflation adjusted) $18 000 and they accepted. After four months the manual was done, and I've never felt so robbed in my life! It was a lot of work, lot more than I had anticipated. In retrospect I should've probably charged them double.
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✜ The Bunny Chaser
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Member is Online
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Energizer Bunny 211
So far 2024 is the same as the previous three years...
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Feb 26, 2022 14:33:05 GMT
Artists are so unappreciated. But yeah, that's a tough one. Mu gut instinct would be USD $200 plus expenses, depending on the outcome. I'm no artist, but I did do a fully illustrated technical manual once. The manual was 40 pages long, and had several detailed CAD illustrations. I offered to do it for (inflation adjusted) $18 000 and they accepted. After four months the manual was done, and I've never felt so robbed in my life! It was a lot of work, lot more than I had anticipated. In retrospect I should've probably charged them double. you got 18 THOUSAND dollars for doing a tech manual?
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Post by Serza on Feb 26, 2022 15:27:05 GMT
What is the highest price this piece is worth to you?
You don't have to answer me. Ask and answer yourself.
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✜ The Bunny Chaser
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Energizer Bunny 211
So far 2024 is the same as the previous three years...
5,875
Jan 15, 2017 18:43:23 GMT
January 2017
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Feb 26, 2022 16:06:41 GMT
What is the highest price this piece is worth to you? You don't have to answer me. Ask and answer yourself. Materials ++.....I'm thinking my absolute ceiling is about 400. However, knowing my parents they wouldn't even want this as a gift. Heck, I have a hard time convincing them to let me buy them a gift or gifts at Christmas so if they even had an inkling of an idea tht I was considering doing this for them....they would squash it in a second: "don't waste your money. We don't need it. We have enough artwork in the house and we never hang it. We don't want anymore." More than that as soon as they look at it they would ask me "why did you do this? You obviously spent money to have this done....But why?" So given that....I'm now wondering if I should even bother. I mean to me, the photograph in question would make a beautiful painting....But never in my life have I ever heard either of my parents comment anything close to the same that would lead me to believe they might like it if it were given to them as a gift.
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Post by Serza on Feb 26, 2022 16:19:17 GMT
What is the highest price this piece is worth to you? You don't have to answer me. Ask and answer yourself. Materials ++.....I'm thinking my absolute ceiling is about 400. However, knowing my parents they wouldn't even want this as a gift. Heck, I have a hard time convincing them to let me buy them a gift or gifts at Christmas so if they even had an inkling of an idea tht I was considering doing this for them....they would squash it in a second: "don't waste your money. We don't need it. We have enough artwork in the house and we never hang it. We don't want anymore." More than that as soon as they look at it they would ask me "why did you do this? You obviously spent money to have this done....But why?" So given that....I'm now wondering if I should even bother. I mean to me, the photograph in question would make a beautiful painting....But never in my life have I ever heard either of my parents comment anything close to the same that would lead me to believe they might like it if it were given to them as a gift.
Well, is this for you, or do you wish to gift it to your family?
Do you have your own place, or do you still live with them?
If you want it for yourself and live by yourself, I'd say, it doesn't matter what they want as long as you want it. On the other hand, if this is intended as a gift, then yes, it may end up being underappreciated.
Of course, if you're not comfortable answering at any point, don't. I don't need to know the answer, the questions I pose are what I think you should ask yourself.
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Add a cookie for just $1.99 (plus tax)!
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Post by dragontartare on Feb 26, 2022 21:18:31 GMT
Artists are so unappreciated. But yeah, that's a tough one. Mu gut instinct would be USD $200 plus expenses, depending on the outcome. I'm no artist, but I did do a fully illustrated technical manual once. The manual was 40 pages long, and had several detailed CAD illustrations. I offered to do it for (inflation adjusted) $18 000 and they accepted. After four months the manual was done, and I've never felt so robbed in my life! It was a lot of work, lot more than I had anticipated. In retrospect I should've probably charged them double. you got 18 THOUSAND dollars for doing a tech manual? $18000 for four months of work is hardly outlandish
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N7
Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
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Posts: 15,035 Likes: 35,856
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Post by Beerfish on Feb 26, 2022 22:14:45 GMT
Always tough to know what to offer in cases like this for sure. You want to pay something that will make them feel it is worth it but not too much. You do not want them to conclude that being an artist pays..... I will offer this one up to anyone on this site only $499, this week only.
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✜ The Bunny Chaser
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Energizer Bunny 211
So far 2024 is the same as the previous three years...
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Feb 26, 2022 22:21:46 GMT
Always tough to know what to offer in cases like this for sure. You want to pay something that will make them feel it is worth it but not too much. You do not want them to conclude that being an artist pays..... I will offer this one up to anyone on this site only $499, this week only. THat's a lot better than I can do!
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Feb 27, 2022 1:34:18 GMT
Why would you think it would make an amazing painting? Have you seen anything that these kids have done?
You will pay for materials, you say. Do you know what that will mean, exactly? What materials? Acrylics? While there are quite cheap acrylics available, if they go out and buy high grade artist paints, it'll cost $8 to $30 per tube, depending upon pigment, for the smallest size. For 8 colors, that may end up to be more than $100. That's crazy of course, for a couple of 15y olds, to paint with. My point is you better be on top of these material costs.
Here's a series of reasons why you shouldn't pay them: You put a burden on them. If they want to do it for fun and to do you a favor, fine. But if you pay them, they have to perform, and they'll never be sure of that you were a satisfied customer.
I had more reasons, which were various inversions of that reasoning, but on second thought I won't bother.
If you get happy with the results, there's nothing stopping you from giving them some money to show your appreciation, but don't hint at such things in advance.
Finally, are you sure your photograph will survive their copying attempt unscathed?
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So far 2024 is the same as the previous three years...
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Jan 15, 2017 18:43:23 GMT
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Feb 27, 2022 2:40:51 GMT
Why would you think it would make an amazing painting? Have you seen anything that these kids have done? You will pay for materials, you say. Do you know what that will mean, exactly? What materials? Acrylics? While there are quite cheap acrylics available, if they go out and buy high grade artist paints, it'll cost $8 to $30 per tube, depending upon pigment, for the smallest size. For 8 colors, that may end up to be more than $100. That's crazy of course, for a couple of 15y olds, to paint with. My point is you better be on top of these material costs. Here's a series of reasons why you shouldn't pay them: You put a burden on them. If they want to do it for fun and to do you a favor, fine. But if you pay them, they have to perform, and they'll never be sure of that you were a satisfied customer. I had more reasons, which were various inversions of that reasoning, but on second thought I won't bother. If you get happy with the results, there's nothing stopping you from giving them some money to show your appreciation, but don't hint at such things in advance. Finally, are you sure your photograph will survive their copying attempt unscathed? I have seen some of the work from these students. And I agree with your point about cost for materials. I do also see your point(s) about paying them. I honestly don't know if I am going to follow through with this idea. I told them from the start it was just something I was tossing around, I hadn't settled on it yet. If I was going to....*this* would be my vision my end goal, but I would need to give it some thought and other considerations (ie materials). I would let them know by next week. I may very well end up writng them and saying "sorry to get your hopes up, but after careful consideration and looking into cost of materials etc....I've realized it was more expensive than I first thought, and so as much as I may want to do this...there's a lot of reasons why I can't. Thank you for your willingness and offer to take this on on your own time; the gesture alone means a lot to me."
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Post by rewindbutton on Feb 27, 2022 12:55:10 GMT
you got 18 THOUSAND dollars for doing a tech manual? See? There's that lack of appreciation again. $18000 for four months of work is hardly outlandish Exactly. And it was more like five months of work done in four.
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Post by rewindbutton on Feb 27, 2022 12:56:48 GMT
I will offer this one up to anyone on this site only $499, this week only. An original Beerfish for under $500? That's a steal.
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Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Feb 27, 2022 14:54:21 GMT
Why would you think it would make an amazing painting? Have you seen anything that these kids have done? You will pay for materials, you say. Do you know what that will mean, exactly? What materials? Acrylics? While there are quite cheap acrylics available, if they go out and buy high grade artist paints, it'll cost $8 to $30 per tube, depending upon pigment, for the smallest size. For 8 colors, that may end up to be more than $100. That's crazy of course, for a couple of 15y olds, to paint with. My point is you better be on top of these material costs. Here's a series of reasons why you shouldn't pay them: You put a burden on them. If they want to do it for fun and to do you a favor, fine. But if you pay them, they have to perform, and they'll never be sure of that you were a satisfied customer. I had more reasons, which were various inversions of that reasoning, but on second thought I won't bother. If you get happy with the results, there's nothing stopping you from giving them some money to show your appreciation, but don't hint at such things in advance. Finally, are you sure your photograph will survive their copying attempt unscathed? I have seen some of the work from these students. And I agree with your point about cost for materials. I do also see your point(s) about paying them. I honestly don't know if I am going to follow through with this idea. I told them from the start it was just something I was tossing around, I hadn't settled on it yet. If I was going to....*this* would be my vision my end goal, but I would need to give it some thought and other considerations (ie materials). I would let them know by next week. I may very well end up writng them and saying "sorry to get your hopes up, but after careful consideration and looking into cost of materials etc....I've realized it was more expensive than I first thought, and so as much as I may want to do this...there's a lot of reasons why I can't. Thank you for your willingness and offer to take this on on your own time; the gesture alone means a lot to me." Well, I didn't intend to say that materials would be expensive, just that they can be. I don't paint acrylics, haven't for decades. I hate the medium, but it's apparently what's mainly used in schools these days, because it requires no rules, no knowledge, and dries fast. Anyway, the market is organized in the same way as I described for WaterColors in the Art&Crafts thread (and it's also the same for Oil). Still speaking acrylic paints, sets of tubes, hobby art quality, can be had for around $20. Or there are larger sets of smaller tubes, still hobby quality, for as little as $10. Smaller sets, limited to 6 tubes or so, then you can have even 'budget artist quality', like Grumbacher Academy or W&N Galeria, for $20-$30. I'm very confident that Galeria and Academy are excellent quality, comfortably way beyond just usable, suitable also for professional art. The fact that they're not in the top, high grade segment doesn't matter. If you've seen work they've done, then they have used something already. What? Provided by the school? Due to later years technical developments and mass production/cost reduction of originally exotic pigment classes, what I characterize as 'hobby art paints' are not necessarily always crap either. Look for the 'C.I. generic name' aka “pigment code” PR101, PB15, PW6, PY3, PR9 etc., appearing on the tubes and some kind of lightfastness rating (even if its just the brands own standard, it at least reveal they have some level of ambition at all). Some brands that seem to get around (though I know nothing about them) are Myartscape, Arteza, Gotidal, Monte Marte, Castle Art. Wouldn't surprise me if some of them are made in the exact same Chinese factory, or even is the same, in different packaging.
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✜ The Bunny Chaser
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Energizer Bunny 211
So far 2024 is the same as the previous three years...
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Jan 15, 2017 18:43:23 GMT
January 2017
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Feb 27, 2022 21:23:24 GMT
Thanks Hieronymous....I'll keep that in mind
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Post by Phantom on Feb 28, 2022 3:33:16 GMT
Well Labor and Material will cost so much.
Ask this student how much he normal charges by the hour then what is the material cost. Unless you are planning to buy the material yourself, you need to include the material costs as well as the labor cost.
so if they are asking for $10.00 per hour and gets done with 3 hours, then expect to shell out at least 30 dollars. Talk to this student what is reasonable.
This is personal experience due to working in the construction field, working with various clients to get them bids and getting them a proper scope of work cover their area of constructions with a reasonable budget and profit for our clients and company I work for.
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Post by nanotm on Mar 3, 2022 23:12:10 GMT
unless they ask you to purchase the materials then offer them a split price, pay 20% up front so they can source the materials if necessary
as to the total price if you like the finished work enough then give them full price ($600+) if you dont pay the bare minimum or dont pay anything...
art is subjective if you want a guaranteed minimum price for them doing the work tell them you will give them $50 up front for the supplies and a minimum of $50 for hte job but if they do it well give a decent amount
some of the best art I've ever seen has been done by kids before "professionals" start giving them critique and tips, but thats my perspective....
if you want a cookie cutter bland experience go to a professional and get a factory looking output (you can commission art from places advertising on facecrap who will 3d print your "perfect art" for prices from $100)
honestly dont give them false hope, give them options, they might actually need the work for food or tuition, so really just go into it with an open mind if you dont like it they pay the minimum level and if you really like it then pay what you feel its worth making sure they have a photo for their portfolio and give them printed &signed review for it as well... there is no right answer as to what its worth until after you see the finished article /
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