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Post by biggydx on Feb 28, 2022 6:05:47 GMT
So we're coming up on eight years removed from DA:I's release, and with this game having switched up multiple times in its design goals, it's probably a certainty that gameplay and narrative elements had to be changed. What I think might be a more interesting conversation is what systems in DA4 might have benefited from the longer development time, as no changes might have been necessary. Not all gameplay systems of importance are solely restricted to narrative design, combat, progression, and post-launch content. There are other systems like character creation, inventory management, UI and HUD elements, sound effects, etc, that might not have needed to change to fit the new SP-focused design goal.
As an example, this game was likely going to launch with a character creator but in terms of how robust and expansive it would have been, we don't know. With the additional time to develop DA4, would it be reasonable to suggest that we might have more options to play with under the current iteration of the game? Could it lead to significant improvements in inventory management and UI presentation? Or, alternatively, does having that additional development time (and the reshift in design goals) lead to them having conversations about revisiting these very systems?
I would hope that not everything needed to be brought back to the drawing board with the various iterations of the game, but I'm curious what you all think.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 28, 2022 6:45:49 GMT
I think the main change and result from the...well no let me actually think about this for a second.
First off a specific change I could see BioWare having to make (assuming the game was more heavily focused on MP in the first place) was in terms of combat. MMOs and stuff of that nature tend to want to get their players to play it longer for new content and expansions so the combat does tend to be a little more grindy at times. Like TOR was pretty much a boring slug fest.
Other then that though I do not see a lot of the systems needing to change per se. Except maybe the Character creator though more on that in a bit. The big change and 'benefit' from all this extra time is hopefully the updated trends, technology, and customer response data that BioWare can view from over the last eight years to give us a truly updated game. Because that is really the big problem with gaming is that sometimes games release and they are still using yesterday's big mechanics. But with more time and more delay Bio could see what works and what doesen't. Games like the Witcher, God of War, Horizon, and the Assassins Creeds could offer them a huge variety of stuff to learn from in everything from side quests to combat to story to character animations to writing to role playing mechanics and...well a lot.
I think the biggest positive trend from this could be in terms of combat namely. Games of late that have released in this head space have been getting just plain fun to me. The 'action' RPG elements which could make combat fast and brutal rather then slow and meandering is a definite plus.
The biggest negatives however is in lack of CC. A lot of so called RPGs have released without one especially with the push to more realstic mo cap...I could see BioWare forgoing one entirely since really not a lot of the big franchises seem to be doing one anymore.
The wild card in this is the side quests. And it figures just when I was starting to get used to better side quest design with Assassins Creed Odyssey the industry then really seemed to back slide with the whole random encounter stranger thing from Red Dead infecting other games that I have been playing. Again the ideal for side quests should follow Witcher/ ACOD/ Origins. While optional the side quests should still be worth doing.
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 28, 2022 13:59:25 GMT
The way I am looking at the restarts from the game and because it seemed both were early in the development phases that it would be like just moving from one game to another. So the underlying code and systems are already there, but any of the more polished versions would have still been on paper in the concept stages. So they might have made tweaks to how movement works, clipping potentially the initial design of our base of operations, but I doubt they had menus or inventory near a point that could be carried forward.
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Post by ClarkKent on Feb 28, 2022 16:20:17 GMT
I'm skeptical Bioware will ever completely do away with with the CC. The inclusivity of being able to play and represent whoever you ever is a big plus point of Bioware games.
I very much hope they won't anyway.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 28, 2022 17:40:37 GMT
I'm skeptical Bioware will ever completely do away with with the CC. The inclusivity of being able to play and represent whoever you ever is a big plus point of Bioware games. I very much hope they won't anyway. Even if the game were to be slated as an MMO (to meet live service), many of them also include character creators.
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Cyberstrike
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Post by Cyberstrike on Mar 6, 2022 16:00:43 GMT
I think the story and characters in DA2 is the best in the series so far, maybe because the writers didn't overthink it to the point where it's original plot makes no sense or so boring with long dialogues info dumps to be used as world building (which is a HUGE problem BioWare has always has and it's especially a big problem in both of the prologues in DAI and MEA the time you should be trying to get the player hooked into your story). Now DA2 it's intentions are/were great but the execution left a lot to be desired. Isabela leaving the group after Hawke kills the qunari leader at the end of act 2 feels like something that should've seen and heard, especially if Hawke is in a romantic relationship with her, and not just a codex entry, and IMHO it also doesn't make some her and Hawke's line any sense especially about her leaving broke Hawke's heart (again if they're in a romance). IMHO the use of the codex basically to explain what should be major character and plot details is NOT what the codex should be used for. I know why it was done due to rushed development time. But something like the player should've see and heard Hawke and Isabela's argument and not read a vague codex entry about it.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 6, 2022 17:18:18 GMT
I think the story and characters in DA2 is the best in the series so far, maybe because the writers didn't overthink it to the point where it's original plot makes no sense or so boring with long dialogues info dumps to be used as world building (which is a HUGE problem BioWare has always has and it's especially a big problem in both of the prologues in DAI and MEA the time you should be trying to get the player hooked into your story). Now DA2 it's intentions are/were great but the execution left a lot to be desired. Isabela leaving the group after Hawke kills the qunari leader at the end of act 2 feels like something that should've seen and heard, especially if Hawke is in a romantic relationship with her, and not just a codex entry, and IMHO it also doesn't make some her and Hawke's line any sense especially about her leaving broke Hawke's heart (again if they're in a romance). IMHO the use of the codex basically to explain what should be major character and plot details is NOT what the codex should be used for. I know why it was done due to rushed development time. But something like the player should've see and heard Hawke and Isabela's argument and not read a vague codex entry about it. I think part of the problem is also the expanse of the games. Just like ME1 it is a much shorter game then what people want it seems now for I am just remembering the "only 30 hours" for the critical path for Inquisition complaints and the games that have time wasters seem to sell much higher numbers. Back when I was playing ME every now for I had the time I could finish ME1 in five hours or less. Part of the problem I have had with Inquisition and Andromeda is that there is at least how I play a bad narrative flow. It comes across to me they put a big version of the map on the wall and threw darts to figure out where objectives where and then insisted you return to the base of operations to finish it. I am nearing the end of my Inquisition replay I started back in September and there are times when trying to complete a quest the majority of my time is travelling. So when that happens I think the desired outcome is to get the player hooked early because if they aren't hooked by a certain point early its going to fall apart because there is so much lack of progress when you reach the big open maps like Hinterlands.
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Cyberstrike
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Post by Cyberstrike on Mar 16, 2022 17:58:22 GMT
I think the story and characters in DA2 is the best in the series so far, maybe because the writers didn't overthink it to the point where it's original plot makes no sense or so boring with long dialogues info dumps to be used as world building (which is a HUGE problem BioWare has always has and it's especially a big problem in both of the prologues in DAI and MEA the time you should be trying to get the player hooked into your story). Now DA2 it's intentions are/were great but the execution left a lot to be desired. Isabela leaving the group after Hawke kills the qunari leader at the end of act 2 feels like something that should've seen and heard, especially if Hawke is in a romantic relationship with her, and not just a codex entry, and IMHO it also doesn't make some her and Hawke's line any sense especially about her leaving broke Hawke's heart (again if they're in a romance). IMHO the use of the codex basically to explain what should be major character and plot details is NOT what the codex should be used for. I know why it was done due to rushed development time. But something like the player should've see and heard Hawke and Isabela's argument and not read a vague codex entry about it. I think part of the problem is also the expanse of the games. Just like ME1 it is a much shorter game then what people want it seems now for I am just remembering the "only 30 hours" for the critical path for Inquisition complaints and the games that have time wasters seem to sell much higher numbers. Back when I was playing ME every now for I had the time I could finish ME1 in five hours or less. Part of the problem I have had with Inquisition and Andromeda is that there is at least how I play a bad narrative flow. It comes across to me they put a big version of the map on the wall and threw darts to figure out where objectives where and then insisted you return to the base of operations to finish it. I am nearing the end of my Inquisition replay I started back in September and there are times when trying to complete a quest the majority of my time is travelling. So when that happens I think the desired outcome is to get the player hooked early because if they aren't hooked by a certain point early its going to fall apart because there is so much lack of progress when you reach the big open maps like Hinterlands.
Some of it is not clearly stating what the most important priorities should be for player and the player character to focus on instead of giving you a list of things to do and trying to figure out what would be the most important thing to do. Do you help the people at the Crossroads, kill bandits, rouge templars, and rouge mages, try to stop a cult worshiping the Rift, or putting up various camps? This is a problem with open world games in general either you focus on the main quest to point where most of side quests tie back into the main quest and you fill like you're on a rail and can't explore the world beyond certain areas like the TLoU games and HZD or you allow the player to pretty much go and do whatever they want but you have a weaker main quest. And you get criticized and roasted by players and critics either way.
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