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Post by biggydx on Mar 23, 2022 1:40:46 GMT
This is more related to quests where a sense of urgency is highlighted by the situation at hand, or through dialogue. Some of you might remember how, in Mass Effect 3, if you got the message from Jack (at Grissom Academy), but didn't finish her mission after completing a set number of story quests, she would end up being converted into a Cerberus Phantom.
I'm wondering if making quests like these would actually drive player engagement with the tasks they've been given, or make them more aware of how they tackle interactions with NPCs in the over-world. For example, let's say in DA4 your character is approached by a nerve racked NPC, who claims their village is being burned down by bandits. A time sensitive quest structure would require that you immediately go to the village, or you do your own thing and come back to a burnt down village that's been pillaged.
I'm sure one issue that could come about from this is how often the player is forced into these scenarios. Wouldn't want people to feel like they're always being rushed to do something they didn't even expect or anticipate. Might need to be something you have to have a willingness to be prepared for.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Mar 23, 2022 1:48:25 GMT
This is more related to quests where a sense of urgency is highlighted by the situation at hand, or through dialogue. Some of you might remember how, in Mass Effect 3, if you got the message from Jack (at Grissom Academy), but didn't finish her mission after completing a set number of story quests, she would end up being converted into a Cerberus Phantom. I'm wondering if making quests like these would actually drive player engagement with the tasks they've been given, or make them more aware of how they tackle interactions with NPCs in the over-world. For example, let's say in DA4 your character is approached by a nerve racked NPC, who claims their village is being burned down by bandits. A time sensitive quest structure would require that you immediately go to the village, or you do your own thing and come back to a burnt down village that's been pillaged. I'm sure one issue that could come about from this is how often the player is forced into these scenarios. Wouldn't want people to feel like they're always being rushed to do something they didn't even expect or anticipate. Might need to be something you have to have a willingness to be prepared for. Tough one. I have no issue with quests that have a timer once they are started (as long as not every quest has a timer) - meaning, real world ticking minutes. That would be fine in small doses. But I'd want it sign posted in some way (like an hour glass suddenly appearing on screen in the corner and sand filtering down). Ones like Jack where you have 'X numbers of missions/quests before this one expires' are fine, but again there should be some gentle nudging if you get close. Like, if you get within three missions of losing that one, a crew/party member piping up with "hey, we better get to Jack soon, boss". Or something like that. Nothing that breaks the 'fourth wall', just a reminder that your time for this mission is running out. But again, I wouldn't want that to be every quest either, or even every third or fourth one. I'd actually favour something like 'World Events' where a side mission opens up in an area, and if you're around for it, you can do it. But if you choose not to, it's gone. However, if you aren't in the area when it triggers (on an in game day/night cycle of some length) then it pops up again next time.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 23, 2022 2:07:44 GMT
I am not sure if it would add any kind of time sensitivity for players, but if they did add them I have no objection. What I would want is an indicator that there is a timer going on in the background and there not to be a lot of them.
I think what might get a little more urgency involved is if they have one or two times where you pick one of two quests and the other one becomes unavailable much like the Templar/Mage choice in Inquisition. At least for me having a clock ticking in the background just adjusts the order I complete the quests so having a choice between quests I think would have more of an impact on what I am choosing to do or not do.
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 23, 2022 4:06:36 GMT
If it was a one-off game that I never planned on playing again, then... I'm fine with a few of those (as long as they don't have actual timers).
On the other hand, if it's a game I plan to play multiple times... that's another story. Then I'm less inclined to having them.
The reason is, I don't want to have to sit there with a "best quest order" checklist to play the game. They just add unwanted linearity.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Mar 23, 2022 15:02:47 GMT
The problem is that so many quests in all of the DA and ME games have some quests (even small fetch quests/tasks) feel like they should be more important to get done. If done in a way that some quests might mean you have to choose this person or that person that could be interesting. The problem is making sure that not annoy me every 5 minutes "to get to this point and start this quest or lose this person/item/whatever!" but also to at least to tell the player that this quest is time sensitive.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 23, 2022 18:02:05 GMT
If you look back on You Tube at the Alpha Demo of DAI they had in 2013, there were toying with the idea of timed quests. This was when Crestwood was under attack by Red Templars. Not only did you have to make a choice whether to defend Crestwood village or try to take the Keep but the whole thing was going to be timed, so, if you opted for the Keep, if you took too long, it could still not work out for you. Meanwhile, the village was massacred. Because of the timed element, I assume that if you opted to help the villagers then there was no chance of then going on to recover the Keep. For some reason, they decided to drop this entire concept but it was probably to do with complexity and cost, so I don't know how likely it is they will resurrect the idea. I thought it was a pity it wasn't included as I was looking forward to playing it and, of course, having different outcomes did make for replayability.
Of course, we did have a timed element in DAI; on the Templar path. My main gripe with that was that it was difficult to recover items that required you to go off the main path. I didn't even bother looking because I was focused on getting back asap. If they are going to have timed quests, then that should be the sole focus and they should not have any items you have to go looking for on that particular section.
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Post by necrowaif on Mar 23, 2022 18:42:56 GMT
I don't like the idea of quests with a timer (as in you have 2 hours to complete this side quest before it disappears).
I do like the idea of something bad happening if you don't complete a certain quest before a certain point in the story. It shouldn’t be a barrage of such quests, mind you, and the time allowance should be generous, but I do like the idea that if you don't close the rift at Crestwood before completing Doom Upon the World, you can come back and find all of the villagers dead.
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Post by Norstaera on Mar 23, 2022 23:46:49 GMT
"Choices have consequences", how often have we heard that? We already have a history of either/or: Bhelen or Harrowmont, Mages or Templars (all 3 games), Elves or Werewolves, who to leave in the Fade, what we do with/to our companions. Some of those choices matter less in subsequent games, but at the time... Another way for our choices to have consequences might be good.
If it's a timed quest as in an actual timer, then no. A small puzzle with an actual timer, maybe, but not too many of those either. Otherwise I see a lot of reloading earlier saves and it becomes a drudge and frustration rather than roleplay and fun.
If it's timed based on number of missions/sidequests you do, then I can see it - again, not a lot, but a couple of key points in the game? Sure. Not an either/or scenario but a reduced chance of success. I'll use the Crestwood example mentioned before (I was also disappointed that was cut). Instead of saving the villagers but not being able to take the Keep or vice versa, I'd rather if you choose option A, you are decreasing the chance for success in option B. Let's say I choose the villagers. That reduces my chance of taking the Keep by 50%. Maybe I get to a point where it's not total victory but things are quiet. I can leave for the Keep at that point (hoping that will not just get me the Keep but also save the villagers from future attacks), which reduces the overall chance of saving the villagers to 80%. If I stay with the villagers to the end, I only have a 20% chance of taking the Keep. On the other hand, if I choose the Keep, then my chances of saving the villagers drops to 75%. I can take the Keep by frontal assault or by stealth and one of those choices drops the villagers' chance of survival to 40%. If I explore too many areas in the Keep, that drops down to 20%. Now, your choice of party members can move those percentages up or down by 2-10%. By this I mean class, weapons, tactics.
You can't play the game based on 1 or 2 quests, but I think it could be interesting.
Or just take a 'my village is in danger of being wiped out by xxx' scenario. If you go immediately, you have a 90% chance of a perfect ending to that quest. A perfect ending being least amount of lives lost and property destroyed. Any other quests you do or areas you go to reduce your chances of that perfect ending and increase the amount of death and destruction. Ultimately, you could end up with the village's total annihilation.
In any case, there shouldn't be many, and I'm not sure how major they should be. It's an interesting idea, though.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Mar 24, 2022 9:04:51 GMT
I haaaaaaaate timed quests. Really killed Pathfinder: Kingmaker for me - I felt like I never had the opportunity to explore and find out what the game had to offer because I was always rushing around trying not to fail a timer somewhere. (I must give it another shot with kingdom management on auto, one of these days.)
I'm OK with the occasional 'this quest will be easier and/or have more favourable results if you do it fast' like in the Winter Palace, but I don't want the whole game to be like that.
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Post by fluffysmom on Mar 25, 2022 0:19:37 GMT
I don’t mind if it makes sense. The possible assassination of an Empress comes to mind. Yet I can do every possible area and side quest and no attempt on her life is made. It made no sense especially with the urgency talked about during the group meeting. During an important event like that I don’t mind so long as it isn’t forced on me often. As someone who played Kingmaker as well, it can absolutely ruin the fun of playing.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 26, 2022 14:05:56 GMT
I wouldn't be a fan of their widespread use but as a one off i think it can be a very good tool. As well as the grissom one in ME3, I liked that ME2 had consequences for delaying suicide mission after the abduction.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 26, 2022 14:44:21 GMT
I would be ok with it. Imagine the player has a time limit when creating a character? hahaha. After 2 minutes, the screen fades-to-black with whatever the character looked like at that moment. hahaha. Hmmm. I might add that to the wishlist thread. hahaha
Since I enjoy doing speedruns, time sensitive quests wouldn't bother me. To get 100% completion, those quest's might make it tough for that to happen
Since the Grissom mission was mentioned, I wouldn't call that time sensitive. If it's done before curing/sabotaging the genophage, the player can do as many missions as he/she wants without worry. The mission that is time sensitive is the bomb mission. If the player helps the turian platoon, then does the genophage mission, the player can only do one more mission before the bomb goes boom. That mission being the coup. Once done, meet up with little Victus again to disarm the bomb. If player decides to do a different mission, the bomb will go boom. Shepard receives an email from Wreav/Wrex.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2022 18:00:11 GMT
No.
Some quests maybe. Quests in general - hell no, please, no.
If the game is designed to be a pressure cooker, then it fits. No clue who wants to play that, but I am sure they are out there.
Otherwise, you have ME/DA/Witcher/CP2077 issues with quasi-open world design built for exploration, and a timer preventing you from doing what the designers really want you to do, which is look around and ogle their fine works. Or, you have to deal with the mental incongruency that results from the game telling you you need to be urgent, but also encourages you to find a collection of Dwarf Dildos that could take a month of wandering.
In short, if the quest should be more time sensitive, then it should be more time sensitive. Yogi Berra out.
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Post by nopersdeviv on Mar 26, 2022 22:33:36 GMT
If puzzle or race type quest areas are added, sure. But for general gameplay, no thank-you.
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Post by Beerfish on Mar 28, 2022 17:16:00 GMT
What do you mean the world is ending and I have no saves to go back to from long ago? I have not finished collecting the shards! What about the shards!!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2022 17:49:49 GMT
What do you mean the world is ending and I have no saves to go back to from long ago? I have not finished collecting the shards! What about the shards!!! Check your pants. Oh, you said shar ds. One little letter...
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Post by colfoley on Mar 29, 2022 6:30:07 GMT
Whether this is legit or not I went back and I checked on something and well I could be wrong on this but it does give me an idea...
Time sensitive quests that don't fail you. In other words a character could go say 'meet me before the main struggle' and well if you decide to go do side quests you could come and find that they have already started the fight. You don't fail the quest you just miss a time sensitive part.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 30, 2022 5:09:20 GMT
Whether this is legit or not I went back and I checked on something and well I could be wrong on this but it does give me an idea... Time sensitive quests that don't fail you. In other words a character could go say 'meet me before the main struggle' and well if you decide to go do side quests you could come and find that they have already started the fight. You don't fail the quest you just miss a time sensitive part. Going by my experiences with how people react to things there will still be many people that would consider that a failure state because they missed out on something.
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Post by Gilli on Mar 30, 2022 16:45:42 GMT
I heavily dislike quests with timers. I don't mean races, or mini games that must be done in a certain time, those are fine and sometimes even fun, but I hate when important stuff needs to be done in a certain time or someone dies/you get a bad ending/game over. It just stresses me out. That Champions of the Just had a timer, where "If you don't get to Envy really fast, Ser Barris will die" is the main reason why I've only sided with the Templars twice so far. I prefer siding with the Mages personally, but the quests around Calpernia are interesting, I would've liked doing them more often, but I hate feeling rushed in important missions. I can't explore, or take screenshots of funny stuff, because "Oh hey, you took too long, your friend is dead =D" is hanging like the sword of Damocles over my head.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Mar 31, 2022 5:03:36 GMT
If it's something that you could turn on before starting a new playthough (for an extra challenge), then sure why not. (However, you can't turn it off afterwards).
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Post by biggydx on Mar 31, 2022 23:23:42 GMT
If it's something that you could turn on before starting a new playthough (for an extra challenge), then sure why not. (However, you can't turn it off afterwards). Would be an interesting takeaway. Kinda like an Ironman playthrough.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 1, 2022 3:30:20 GMT
If it's something that you could turn on before starting a new playthough (for an extra challenge), then sure why not. (However, you can't turn it off afterwards). Would be an interesting takeaway. Kinda like an Ironman playthrough. That's what I was thinking of. Plus it adds an extra challenge if anyone planned on doing a speed run.
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 1, 2022 17:26:29 GMT
Hell no. Part of any RPG is figuring out in which order it makes the most sense for your main character to decide to do - or not do - various quests.
Rather, I've always enjoyed in games when quests are presented in a way that seems at least potentially non-time-sensitive, and/or the story gives you natural break points in which to explore things outside the (obviously) most urgent main quest at your own pace. An example would be Fable 2, where at one point the main questgiver essentially goes "I'm gonna take this new companion back to base and catch them up on everything they need to know. It might take a little while. Go upgrade your equipment and take care of your own business, and meet us when you're ready."
Don't know how it'd impact other people's immersion or engagement in quests, but I like that it both recognizes that saving the world would probably realistically involve time-intensive processes that don't specifically require the hero present(analyzing ancient scrolls, scouting and gathering information in preparation of the next move, training, mail delivery, lots of people moving around huge landmasses at different speeds on foot or horseback rather than in vehicles, ordinary logistics and admin for any big organization or military) and also frees you to indulge yourself with side quests in an open world without the guilt of apparently down-prioritizing saving the world.
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Post by bierkrug on Apr 2, 2022 12:45:41 GMT
If it's anything like in Pathfinder Kingmaker then no. I don't like timing to be that pressing. I was not impressed when I happily scouted the wilderness and suddenly had "you missed this" messages onscreen. If the storytelling fits in with urging the player to action, then yes.
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Post by Jarovbees on Apr 2, 2022 16:56:31 GMT
No. I have enough difficulty with time management irl (hello, ADHD), so carrying that over to a game wouldn't be fun for me.
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