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Post by Ahriman on Oct 31, 2016 13:54:47 GMT
What happened to him being creative director? If he's filling both roles, ME:A will be Foundation-levels of bad, story-wise. It's not the marketing hype-train, but the "anti-hype train" that's running off the rails around here. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." (c) Some deadly English dude.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2016 14:05:17 GMT
It's not the marketing hype-train, but the "anti-hype train" that's running off the rails around here. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." (c) Some deadly English dude. True in science... but when it comes to people, there is also a long-known concept of "overreacting." www.wikihow.com/Avoid-Overreacting(Note in Step 2 - the description of "catastrophising").
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 31, 2016 14:12:00 GMT
Mac Walters gets a ton of hate, and I for one just don't understand it. Because he gets the brunt of the blame for the ending. In truth a lot of what Walters does has been positive, mostly characterization direction. His big problem is overly logical knot tying...think 2001-style, deep thinking stuff.
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XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
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Post by Arcian on Oct 31, 2016 14:23:14 GMT
I'm no fan of Walters, not going to lie. When the project started, his official role was that of "Creative director". If he has become lead writer, I'm not really happy about it, but we have no control over those decisions. On the bright side, after Schlerf's departure, they brought back John Dombrow to the company, and he has been writing for MEA for a long time. For those who don't remember Dombrow, he joined Bioware at the time of ME 2 production. He wrote or co-wrote Garrus and Grunt in ME2, Garrus and Javik in ME 3, he was in charge of the Tuchanka storyline (including the salarian home plannet), the Ardat Yakshi temple and Thessia. He was one of the main writers of the Leviathan DLC (while Walters claimed responsibility over Omega.... ) John Dombrow is very good friends with Patrick Weekes, one of the best writers left in the company, sadly no longer working for the Mass Effect franchise. If Mordin is not alive in ME 3, there's a salarian scientist called Padok Wiks. Padok Wiks is a joke name based on Patrick Weekes. P.s: It's really good reading Linkenski's posts again. Good to see you here, brother! I didn't know about Padok Wiks' name was a reference of Patrick Weekes name! Great to know I really love Dombrow's work, so it's good to have him back Fun fact, Weekes named the salarian spectre Jondum Bau after John Dombrow.
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Post by Vortex13 on Oct 31, 2016 14:52:51 GMT
Mac Walters gets a ton of hate, and I for one just don't understand it. Because he gets the brunt of the blame for the ending. In truth a lot of what Walters does has been positive, mostly characterization direction. His big problem is overly logical knot tying...think 2001-style, deep thinking stuff. My main gripe with Mac is his dismantling of an (arguably) nuanced setting to make more room for his pet creations (namely Cerberus and general human centricity) and preferred depictions of characters. While he is not named specifically, I am fairly certain it was Walters that Chris L'Etoile was butting heads with over Legion and the Geth in ME 2. The whole hero worshiping/creepy stalker bit with Shepard's armor was to paraphrase Chris' words: "Forced on him by someone higher paid than himself". The fact that after L'Etoile departed BioWare, and Mac Walters, as lead writer, green-lit the whole Pinocchio bot transformation of the Geth in ME 3 would seem to indicate as much at any rate.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Oct 31, 2016 15:20:09 GMT
I remember Casey Hudson getting too hands-on with ME3's ending being more to blame than Mac.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Oct 31, 2016 15:58:22 GMT
Mac Walters gets a ton of hate, and I for one just don't understand it. Try to read the comics and think about what happens instead of gushing over it just because it's your favorite characters doing "cool" things.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Oct 31, 2016 16:11:50 GMT
What happened to him being creative director? If he's filling both roles, ME:A will be Foundation-levels of bad, story-wise. This is different. He's lead writer now which has happened since Schlerf left, because he WAS lead writer for at least 2-3 years while Mac was Creative Dir. but now he is filling both roles but his role as Lead probably doesn't involve coming up with a plot... only accounting for changes if they decided to reiterate on Schlerf's draft, kinda like how Drew K wrote the basic plot of ME2, a lot of dialogue for specific missions and characters but drastic parts of the plot were just his outlines and Mac became the one to execute on those, hence Arnold Schwarzenegger Reaper and stuff I think. Oh and Drew K admitted on Twitter he hasn't written a single line or note for the character of "Harbinger" Going back to the "I semi-like Mac" what I like about him is that out of all the writers, even the revered ones like John D. Mac does not really care for nostalgia pandering in the same extent as other BioWare writers. He's always trying to do what he wants to happen rather than doing what fans want, which is why I think he wrote James in ME3 which was the only non-established character outside of Javik. I also think his stance on the ending is good in the sense that he's pretty much implied he knows it sucks according to many people but he just wants to move on because the damage has been done. He has made a few bad excuses like blaming the hate on a certain character's survival when that's not really the main gripe I saw or experienced myself, but I think it's telling when he says "We learn from it and move forward" that he does not see meaning in dabbling further in salvaging something that didn't work. I also think James is a fantastic character in ME3. Not all of it was intentional, but Shepard is such a mighty prick in the game and James is one of the only really grounded squadmates that show that not everyone acts like Shepard is their jesus; Mac does not care as much for player-fulfillment or RPG tropes. He also said for Andromeda he wanted to push for making squadmate story progression that feels natural and not "Thanks for beating my quest, now let's make love", whereas in DA:I Mike Laidlaw's view of what characters or the player's role should be is really, really misguided; essentially thinking that characters exist to "empower the player"
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Post by pdomi on Oct 31, 2016 16:59:58 GMT
I posted this ina different thread, but besides having some joke names based on co-workers: Padok Wiks (Patrick Weekes) and Jondum Bao (John Dombrow). There is also a Salarian STG officer probably named after Chris L'Etoile. You only find him in Sur'Kesh if Kirrahe died in Virmire. His name is Lieutenant Tolan, and I really think this was for L'Etoile, who was no longer employed by Bioware. Sources:
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Padok_Wiks
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Jondum_Bau
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Lieutenant_Tolan
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Oct 31, 2016 19:15:25 GMT
That's a nice observation and it could be the case. I never thought Tolan was anything but now that you mention it I can see how it is slightly reminiscent of Lieutenant E'Toile
I love the name plays too. They sound like a baby trying to say either name.
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Post by Artemis on Oct 31, 2016 20:36:53 GMT
Some of his story writing leaves a lot to be desired though. And I don't just mean ME3. He also wrote Arrival, which sucked. I really enjoyed Arrival lol Tis all a matter of prospective...
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Post by Artemis on Oct 31, 2016 20:39:31 GMT
Because he gets the brunt of the blame for the ending. In truth a lot of what Walters does has been positive, mostly characterization direction. His big problem is overly logical knot tying...think 2001-style, deep thinking stuff. My main gripe with Mac is his dismantling of an (arguably) nuanced setting to make more room for his pet creations (namely Cerberus and general human centricity) and preferred depictions of characters. While he is not named specifically, I am fairly certain it was Walters that Chris L'Etoile was butting heads with over Legion and the Geth in ME 2. The whole hero worshiping/creepy stalker bit with Shepard's armor was to paraphrase Chris' words: "Forced on him by someone higher paid than himself". The fact that after L'Etoile departed BioWare, and Mac Walters, as lead writer, green-lit the whole Pinocchio bot transformation of the Geth in ME 3 would seem to indicate as much at any rate. LOL This becoming kind of hilarious. See, I loved that about Legion. His (Its?) hero-worship of Shepard made it a unique entity and made it stand out from the mindless enemies we'd faced before. It also gave Legion a personality, in essence made them/it/him... a person. That really matters. I'll add "in my opinion" which precious few people in the ME forums seem capable of doing lol Very my-way-or-the-highway circle jerk mentality in these forums! Not everybody likes and dislikes the same things.
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Post by hammerstorm on Oct 31, 2016 20:51:32 GMT
I have never cared about who is lead writer, designer or things like that. I look at the game when it is done and out. Getting hyped, or in this case anti-hyped because someone is in a specific position, just seems like a waste of energy and time. I mean, why even bother with anything that is connected with EA in that case? Is it not better to wait until we have something MORE concrete about the game then who is doing what?
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Post by straykat on Oct 31, 2016 20:56:50 GMT
Some of his story writing leaves a lot to be desired though. And I don't just mean ME3. He also wrote Arrival, which sucked. I really enjoyed Arrival lol Tis all a matter of prospective... I guess it's just too much straight corridor shooting to me, and doesn't play to Bioware's strengths with character based story/dialogue. Neither did Overlord, I guess, but the action there was a little more unique. That and it didn't have much followup. The artifact zapping Shep seems major, but turned out to be pretty ho-hum, waved off as a non-issue.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Oct 31, 2016 21:14:04 GMT
Some of his story writing leaves a lot to be desired though. And I don't just mean ME3. He also wrote Arrival, which sucked. I really enjoyed Arrival lol Tis all a matter of prospective... Same as the ending. Nobody is gonna decide for you what you can enjoy or not, but it's objectively bad storytelling. Perhaps if BioWare had reinvented the wheel for narrative structure with a new form of internally consistent method of plotting and planning it would be good, but they are actually trying to fit their narratives into the Hero's Journey or at least a 3-act structure most of the time, and that's why it's easy to objectively point out where they go wrong. Arrival is shorter, so maybe that has no 3-act style, but what does it have for structure then? Not really anything. There's no arc to it. It's just "this happened" and it randomly features a new Reaper gateway and some idiot scientists that brought a Reaper artifact in and housed it in a central room of their station, and there's no arc to any of this. It's just another strange plot-development and it doesn't even bridge the plot to ME3 because they decided to back out of that "for newcomers" so there isn't even any trial for Shepard after Arrival. It's a narrative mess. I like Mac for certain things, but he's the god damn M. Night Shyamalan of game writing. On a bad day maybe even Roland Emmerich
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Post by guanxi on Oct 31, 2016 21:49:04 GMT
I will always respect him for his early contributions (Wrex, Garrus, etc.) and resent him for latter ones as lead writer. For better or worse he's made the series his own, dedicated his life to it for nearly 10 years now, didn't quit at the first sign of trouble and took personal responsibility for bringing the series back from the brink of death. Despite everything, if they can pull this off... he's aces in my book.
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Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Oct 31, 2016 22:13:22 GMT
"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." (c) Some deadly English dude. True in science... but when it comes to people, there is also a long-known concept of "overreacting." www.wikihow.com/Avoid-Overreacting(Note in Step 2 - the description of "catastrophising"). A rational counsel for people in this thread.
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Post by dalinne on Oct 31, 2016 23:02:12 GMT
Some of his story writing leaves a lot to be desired though. And I don't just mean ME3. He also wrote Arrival, which sucked. I really enjoyed Arrival lol Tis all a matter of prospective... Thank the goddess I'm not the only one! My only complain about the Arrival it would have been better playing alongside the Virmire Survivor. I love that DLC! It's so underapreciated...
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XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
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Post by Arcian on Oct 31, 2016 23:03:02 GMT
What happened to him being creative director? If he's filling both roles, ME:A will be Foundation-levels of bad, story-wise. If the writing was basically done when Schlerf left and Bioware just decided to hand his title off to Walters because they didn't want to hire someone else, I think "filling both roles" shouldn't have a huge impact on the story. There is also the possibility that the article writer just made a mistake and got Walters' title wrong. That's not how writing works. Writing changes all throughout the development process, all the way to the end, as we saw in the November leaks before the release of ME3. That's the reason why so much cut content is left in the game files. People are just so intent on panning this story before they even get a chance to read the Prologue. It's not the marketing hype-train, but the "anti-hype train" that's running off the rails around here. Are you really surprised people are anti-hype when the dumbass premise of this game screams "We were more willing to contradict our own writing than we were having to deal with the shitty endings we wrote for ME3." All throughout the original trilogy we're told time and time again that the Mass Relay network is the key to long-distance interstellar travel. They spell out in no uncertain terms how difficult non-relay travel is even with plenty of planets to discharge near and refuel on. ME3, which is set AFTER the big Andromeda Ark exodus, shows absolutely no sign of the kind of technology that would make a trip to Andromeda possible, such as a multi-century long core charge capacity, ultra-efficient fuel cells that can last centuries or an FTL drive efficient enough to attain Normandy-level of FTL speeds for a vessel the size and mass of the Crucible. Even in the war setting of ME3 where no intergalactic journeys take place, this technology would be immensely useful because it would massively reduce the length of supply lines and prevent vessels from being sitting ducks while discharging their drives. There's basically no credible excuse for the galactic civilization to shelter this technology and prevent it from being used in the war. Yet now we are being told that the same galactic civilization who for 2,500 years has bemoaned their inability to efficiently navigate galactic space without the use of Mass Relays suddenly have developed technology that allows them to make a 600 year journey to another galaxy without refueling, without discharging and with such an efficiency that they can allow a ship as gigantic and massive as an Ark to travel as fast as the Normandy (4380 x speed of light/12 light years a day). Where was this magical technology in ME3? Can you not see the giant, cosmological plot void here? This is the Mass Effect equivalent of 1960s NASA engineers bemoaning the fact that they lack the technology to send people to Mars 56 million kilometers away, right before sending a crew of astronauts to Alpha Centauri 42.5 trillion kilometers away. In what reality does that make any sense? Let's be real here for once. BioWare hasn't shown you anything that could remotely be used as basis for hype. On the contrary, everything they've shown reinforces the idea that they've learned fucking nothing from ME3.
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Post by Vortex13 on Oct 31, 2016 23:44:02 GMT
My main gripe with Mac is his dismantling of an (arguably) nuanced setting to make more room for his pet creations (namely Cerberus and general human centricity) and preferred depictions of characters. While he is not named specifically, I am fairly certain it was Walters that Chris L'Etoile was butting heads with over Legion and the Geth in ME 2. The whole hero worshiping/creepy stalker bit with Shepard's armor was to paraphrase Chris' words: "Forced on him by someone higher paid than himself". The fact that after L'Etoile departed BioWare, and Mac Walters, as lead writer, green-lit the whole Pinocchio bot transformation of the Geth in ME 3 would seem to indicate as much at any rate. LOL This becoming kind of hilarious. See, I loved that about Legion. His (Its?) hero-worship of Shepard made it a unique entity and made it stand out from the mindless enemies we'd faced before. It also gave Legion a personality, in essence made them/it/him... a person. That really matters. I'll add "in my opinion" which precious few people in the ME forums seem capable of doing lol Very my-way-or-the-highway circle jerk mentality in these forums! Not everybody likes and dislikes the same things. I've never said that my view on this matter was gospel; opinions vary from person to person after all. I do feel though that Legion had a personality separate from that very humanizing element, and it was that lack of familiarity that made it more compelling as a character. The idea that here is something that doesn't immediately conform to our human perspectives is an element that is in incredibly short supply in this setting and I personally don't care for lead writer Mac's demonstrated systematic removal of those 'alien' elements.
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Post by straykat on Nov 1, 2016 1:26:22 GMT
If the writing was basically done when Schlerf left and Bioware just decided to hand his title off to Walters because they didn't want to hire someone else, I think "filling both roles" shouldn't have a huge impact on the story. There is also the possibility that the article writer just made a mistake and got Walters' title wrong. That's not how writing works. Writing changes all throughout the development process, all the way to the end, as we saw in the November leaks before the release of ME3. That's the reason why so much cut content is left in the game files. People are just so intent on panning this story before they even get a chance to read the Prologue. It's not the marketing hype-train, but the "anti-hype train" that's running off the rails around here. Let's be real here for once. BioWare hasn't shown you anything that could remotely be used as basis for hype. On the contrary, everything they've shown reinforces the idea that they've learned fucking nothing from ME3. Well, they've learn that they can insult our intelligence and still get away with it. Hell, when I first played ME2, it was the dumbest premise I'd seen in awhile.. executed in an equally dumb way.. Where I lived and was resurrected all in 5 minutes. But yet, it turned out to be my favorite game. Go figure.
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Post by hivemind on Nov 1, 2016 6:33:05 GMT
In an interviews Walters appears as an unimaginative and uneducated man. Im not sure if that's just him trying to appear on the same level as the audience that he aiming at.
In ME2 and 3 i can clearly see which pieces of content he wrote and which he didn't. Basically, everytime when characters start talking by clishes and very pretentiously - that's him alright.
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Post by Ahriman on Nov 1, 2016 7:44:07 GMT
If the writing was basically done when Schlerf left and Bioware just decided to hand his title off to Walters because they didn't want to hire someone else, I think "filling both roles" shouldn't have a huge impact on the story. There is also the possibility that the article writer just made a mistake and got Walters' title wrong. That's not how writing works. Writing changes all throughout the development process, all the way to the end, as we saw in the November leaks before the release of ME3. That's the reason why so much cut content is left in the game files. That's exactly how it should work. If story gets rewritten last minute, it's a catastrophe not a "development process". Cut content is typical problem, because some things always get underestimated and cannot be done in time, you can minimize it, but never negate completely.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2016 8:21:53 GMT
If the writing was basically done when Schlerf left and Bioware just decided to hand his title off to Walters because they didn't want to hire someone else, I think "filling both roles" shouldn't have a huge impact on the story. There is also the possibility that the article writer just made a mistake and got Walters' title wrong. That's not how writing works. Writing changes all throughout the development process, all the way to the end, as we saw in the November leaks before the release of ME3. That's the reason why so much cut content is left in the game files. People are just so intent on panning this story before they even get a chance to read the Prologue. It's not the marketing hype-train, but the "anti-hype train" that's running off the rails around here. Are you really surprised people are anti-hype when the dumbass premise of this game screams "We were more willing to contradict our own writing than we were having to deal with the shitty endings we wrote for ME3." All throughout the original trilogy we're told time and time again that the Mass Relay network is the key to long-distance interstellar travel. They spell out in no uncertain terms how difficult non-relay travel is even with plenty of planets to discharge near and refuel on. ME3, which is set AFTER the big Andromeda Ark exodus, shows absolutely no sign of the kind of technology that would make a trip to Andromeda possible, such as a multi-century long core charge capacity, ultra-efficient fuel cells that can last centuries or an FTL drive efficient enough to attain Normandy-level of FTL speeds for a vessel the size and mass of the Crucible. Even in the war setting of ME3 where no intergalactic journeys take place, this technology would be immensely useful because it would massively reduce the length of supply lines and prevent vessels from being sitting ducks while discharging their drives. There's basically no credible excuse for the galactic civilization to shelter this technology and prevent it from being used in the war. Yet now we are being told that the same galactic civilization who for 2,500 years has bemoaned their inability to efficiently navigate galactic space without the use of Mass Relays suddenly have developed technology that allows them to make a 600 year journey to another galaxy without refueling, without discharging and with such an efficiency that they can allow a ship as gigantic and massive as an Ark to travel as fast as the Normandy (4380 x speed of light/12 light years a day). Where was this magical technology in ME3? Can you not see the giant, cosmological plot void here? This is the Mass Effect equivalent of 1960s NASA engineers bemoaning the fact that they lack the technology to send people to Mars 56 million kilometers away, right before sending a crew of astronauts to Alpha Centauri 42.5 trillion kilometers away. In what reality does that make any sense? Let's be real here for once. BioWare hasn't shown you anything that could remotely be used as basis for hype. On the contrary, everything they've shown reinforces the idea that they've learned fucking nothing from ME3. I never said anything about being surprised by it... it's just people overreacting and/or pushing their own agenda of dislike for a game and story that hasn't been released yet. I'm not surprised by it in the least, but that doesn't make it any less a premature overreaction on their part or any less an excessive carrying on about endings to a game that's 4 years old. They shouldn't be surprised that their venom is getting just as old by now.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,288 Likes: 50,642
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Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,642
Iakus
21,288
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Nov 1, 2016 14:51:56 GMT
Mac Walters gets a ton of hate, and I for one just don't understand it. Try to read the comics and think about what happens instead of gushing over it just because it's your favorite characters doing "cool" things. I read the free comic book day one about Joker. A piece of my soul died. Seriously if the rest were at that level of quality...
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