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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 13, 2022 17:11:09 GMT
A sense of the passage of time. That the events in all of DA games takes years for the characters to get through yet it never feels like it take years it feels like a few weeks. Only DA2 took years. DAO takes place over a year, then six months later Awakening which is a few weeks. DA2 is over seven years (10 if you count the time with Varric and Cassandra), and DAI takes place over a year and a half, then two year jump to Trespasser. Same with Mass Effect games. Each one takes place over only around half a year.
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ewigDunkelheit
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on May 14, 2022 1:01:46 GMT
Player programmable tactics scripts. Does anyone here have a reliable measurement for how many Players actually used these? I mean really utilized them extensively, much less tweaking and shifting with multiple battles? For me, it sounded great until I had to try to do anything and found out I wasn't as great a scripter as I thought I was. Mostly wound up just turning some things off in a default script. I really think this was an overly complex mechanic that wasn't used all that often and took the Player out of the game for too long to utilize well. I also think this ran afoul of balancing issues with those who utilized the expansive tactics scripts making it harder to balance encounter difficulty. Inquisition may have been too simplistic, but it was a step in the right direction in giving a one click way to keep your caster from hitting flaming demons with fire spells, for example. There has to be a better way to manage our party members than a menu of 250+ possibilities. (Yup, fired up an Origins game with a low level character and counted all the options for a blank slot). Surely someone's seen a better system between these two extremes. Number of spells, talents, powers, whatever. I'll just be a voice of caution here. There are a number of powers in Origins that are either only marginally useful, busted, or unintentionally more powerful than higher level talents/spells because of the need to fill slots and the difficulty of testing the number of different powers and combinations across many different scenarios. Again, while Inquisition went too far, it would be much better for there to be a smaller set of well-tested, balanced, capabilities than to simply fill in a bunch of slots. My own take, expand the combinations beyond simply inflict a condition then allow a special with a follow up. For example, there's a passive spell in Inquisition that freezes opponents when the Barrier goes down. That was incredibly useful even if the opponents were cold resistant to slow down a mob and build other combo patterns. Including a few more active combos like that would be far better to me than more stand alone spells/powers. While I completely utilized the tactics scripting (finding it very useful to program my companions so I only needed to control my custom player character), I just assumed that if someone didn't want to bother with it, they would use the default scripts that were added to your companions whenever you chose a new skill during leveling. I was quite happy with the options provided, though there were a few issues in Origins where some spells or abilties couldn't target clusters of enemies, so you had to use two slots for one ability. Bioware improved the system for the sequel though. I thought it was great that, completely avoiding manual control, I was able to program Leliana to switch seamlessly back and forth between melee and ranged weapon sets (I do have her as melee primary, ranged secondary, so that may be easier than the reverse).
I suppose I can see how some spells could be considered filler, though I don't consider there to be anything wasted in the rogue or warrior talent trees. However, playing through an alternate with magic access right now in Origins, I feel like I could definitely build using an entire spell school like Creation or Entropy, utilizing nearly every spell, and enjoying the experience. Dragon Age 2 found a good balance though, just like how they improved on the tactics system. I do feel that a lot of the negative reaction to Inquisition's spells boils down to the fact that they went with three colors of Primal with one school that was a grab-bag of three entire schools plus what used to be a class school of spells and distilled into a tree offering only four options. If they simply separated the spells properly again, I think that would mollify some of the disappointment. But they definitely need to retool the power wheel so we can choose to use more abilities again. Just like the tactics system, if a player wants to only use a handful of abilities, then they can choose to do so without being forced otherwise, but at least the option used to be there for the rest of us.
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Post by cailan33 on May 15, 2022 10:07:30 GMT
- i always liked the specialisation idea. but some specs were way better than others. (take care for balance and maybe introduce interesting new classes)
- i also liked the try of combinations between skills/spells but i always hoped they would improve on that further. (please improve this!)
- i really missed the tactical camera view of DAO in DAI. i REALLY hope they will bring it back in DA4!
- the skilltrees where always a bit too onedimensional with a lack of options (like e.g. reaching X skill not only through Y skill but also through Z skill for example)
- please no barrier (too much focus on barrier stuff in DAI in my honest opinion)
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Post by catcher on May 18, 2022 0:59:50 GMT
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say pretty much everyone - except maybe a handful who turned off tactics and instead chose to manage everything manually. This is because the game automatically used presets that would update as followers leveled up and gained new skills. Players could fiddle with them - or not. Note that this ability was present in both DAO and DA2. It wasn't stripped until DAI.
I'm afraid I have to take issue with your definition of utilize. People who just played with the presets or turned off one spell/talent in the script when forced utilized the menu driven scripting combat control system like someone who just clicks through whatever conversation option is highlighted utilizes the conversation system. Still, I don't wish to split hairs. By your own definition, however, Inquisition didn't strip the AI scripting but greatly simplified the interface which also reduced Player's level of control. That, to, is not the best option in my own opinion, but it's not a stripping either. You always had the option of just using the presets. Here's the thing: Someone, somewhere has to program AI for non-controlled party members. The only real question is whether to allow players any role in that, or leave it entirely to developers. Simply using the presets is equivalent to having the developers program everything for you. And what about the (arguably) larger mass of Players who are in between script goddesses/gods and "just tell me the story"? My point (which I will admit I may have been a little contrarian in making) is that after 12, 13, how ever many years since Origins was released (much more since that interface was designed), isn't there a better path than learning a scripting language to get the mage not to hit Rage Demons with a fireball? There have been dozens of games in the same or near genres that also have to deal with this issue. Is there some new ideas to be learned from them? I hate that I don't have one right now myself, but I'm still chewing on it. It's no different than balancing encounter difficulty for players who strategize well versus those who do not. So only scripters can strategize well? That may not be what you mean but it is what I hear. I would be happy to be told I am mistaken. In any case, I was merely musing as to why the system was changed. Too often we slip into the trope that something we liked was changed because 'they' don't know what they're doing or 'they' aren't considering the real fans which is neither true nor productive. Again, what I ask of a lot of very sharp people here who preferred the power of the scripting approach in Origins and Exodus is to look beyond the interface to imagine something new that is more inviting, while keeping much of the power of the original system. Afte rall, as I pointed out, the topic is about what still hasn't been done well in the series. Thanks for your thoughts.
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ahglock
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Post by ahglock on May 18, 2022 6:26:20 GMT
The combat system as a whole. I think the problem is they are trying to split the difference they have action combat and tactical combat, you choose. But in the end they just have 2 shitty shallow systems. Pick one, do it right.
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Post by TabithaTH on May 18, 2022 7:56:29 GMT
It would be nice if you weren’t punished for not knowing how to optimize character build. In DAI my DW rogue didn’t have any artificer abilities. I ended up wasting a lot of combat time running after enemies because they were constantly moving. Likewise I never felt like I was dealing any propper damage. The numbers always seemed so low.
It felt like you couldn’t experiment and find your own build/style.
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Post by Polka Dot on May 18, 2022 19:28:09 GMT
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say pretty much everyone - except maybe a handful who turned off tactics and instead chose to manage everything manually. This is because the game automatically used presets that would update as followers leveled up and gained new skills. Players could fiddle with them - or not. Note that this ability was present in both DAO and DA2. It wasn't stripped until DAI.
I'm afraid I have to take issue with your definition of utilize. People who just played with the presets or turned off one spell/talent in the script when forced utilized the menu driven scripting combat control system like someone who just clicks through whatever conversation option is highlighted utilizes the conversation system. Still, I don't wish to split hairs. By your own definition, however, Inquisition didn't strip the AI scripting but greatly simplified the interface which also reduced Player's level of control. That, to, is not the best option in my own opinion, but it's not a stripping either. Okay, I'll take another stab at trying to explain it. DAO and DA2's tactics system was used by default. The only players who didn't use it are those who chose to turn it all off and manage everything manually. Both of those games provide preset tactics packages from which the player could choose (Examples: Supporter, Controller, Defender, Scrapper). They automatically update when characters gain new talents/spells via level-up. All you ever needed to do was select which preset package you want each party member to use - or you could ignore it altogether and use the defaults automatically loaded by the games. DAO & DA2 also provided the ability to create custom packages with detailed programming. Players could choose to use that ability or not. Inquisition did strip the ability to create custom packages. You were left with the equivalent of a few presets. The preset packages are designed to serve their needs. It needs to be programmed somewhere by someone. I suppose the developers could program the AI to avoid hitting rage demons with fire, but there may be cases when doing less damage is better than doing none? Other than that, you'd need to provide the player with tactics programming that would be more detailed and complex than that provided in DAO & DA2. That remark was in response to your comment: ... which I interpreted to mean that somehow allowing players to program tactics would impact the balance in encounter difficulty. Devs *always* have to consider difficulty levels in every encounter they design. Allowing players to program tactics doesn't really change that. Some players can program great tactics, others not so much. Some players may manually manage brilliant combat strategies, others don't do as well. The existence of programmable tactics does not change what devs need to do to make the game enjoyable for all players and present consistent difficulty depending on the difficulty level selected by the player. I think it's pretty clear the devs went all-in on more action, less tactics in DAI. And they ended up with this weird sort of hybrid that didn't do either thing very well. OTOH, they went huge with crafting, but since it relies on RNG materials (and schematics) - and since armors look different on every follower and are class limited, I didn't like it at all.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2022 21:31:18 GMT
I would have preferred a continued refinement of the gameplay of DAO in each iteration, rather than the gradual slide to the mass-market design of ARPG.
People may take offense to this, but I don't think I'm lying when I say that DAO was made for DnD nerds that were blown away by the presentation of 3rd person cinematic camera available all the time, with an instant (and still really well-implemented IMO) pause and change to the "classic" isometric perspective and ability to micromanage to your hearts content. Control your team, make combos, have them act according to your design. The game was not made for everybody, and that is a large part of its beauty that is lost on some people here, even if they overall like the game.
This is in no way telling anyone that DAO is best title, or that you are wrong in your thinking if you like it the least. I am simply talking about the motivation for making the game at the time - it was not a cookie cutter made for maximum profit, it was made quite literally as a long labor of love. Success is a dangerous thing, as we have all had the opportunity to see great and terrible things from the result of BioWare's early successes.
So, I guess that is "lingering"? It isn't really, more something that has accumulated. Best I could manage, it is a good question!
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Cyberstrike
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Post by Cyberstrike on May 21, 2022 22:03:07 GMT
A sense of the passage of time. That the events in all of DA games takes years for the characters to get through yet it never feels like it take years it feels like a few weeks. Only DA2 took years. DAO takes place over a year, then six months later Awakening which is a few weeks. DA2 is over seven years (10 if you count the time with Varric and Cassandra), and DAI takes place over a year and a half, then two year jump to Trespasser. Same with Mass Effect games. Each one takes place over only around half a year.
DAO feels like it should take 2-5 years instead of a year.
DA2 feels about right.
DAI feels like it should take at 3-5 years instead of 1.5 years.
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catcher
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Post by catcher on May 23, 2022 19:48:26 GMT
I suppose I can see how some spells could be considered filler, though I don't consider there to be anything wasted in the rogue or warrior talent trees. However, playing through an alternate with magic access right now in Origins, I feel like I could definitely build using an entire spell school like Creation or Entropy, utilizing nearly every spell, and enjoying the experience. Dragon Age 2 found a good balance though, just like how they improved on the tactics system. I do feel that a lot of the negative reaction to Inquisition's spells boils down to the fact that they went with three colors of Primal with one school that was a grab-bag of three entire schools plus what used to be a class school of spells and distilled into a tree offering only four options. If they simply separated the spells properly again, I think that would mollify some of the disappointment. But they definitely need to retool the power wheel so we can choose to use more abilities again. Just like the tactics system, if a player wants to only use a handful of abilities, then they can choose to do so without being forced otherwise, but at least the option used to be there for the rest of us.
As far as Talents in Origins, the Two Handed Sunder Arms line is a good example of what I am talking about. Both Sunder Arms and the third tier Sunder Armor are innocuous enough looking, but both trigger a quick, two attack animation which is crucial, cheap damage for painfully slow two handed attackers. These both far overpower the second and fourth abilities in their own line: Shattering Blows and Destroyer. Shattering Blows only affects a small group of opponents (golems, sylvans, skeletons and corpses) but at least it is passive so no precious stamina lost there. Destroyer probably should win the false advertising award. Assuming you fix it (like Shattering Blows and several other Talents it is bugged), you can remove 5 points of armor from a target for an entire 3 seconds. Given that a two-handed weapon's base attack speed is 2.5 seconds, you are unlikely to get more than one hit is at reduced armor. Sunder Armor give you those two attacks we were talking about AND gives you a whopping -20 armor for 10 seconds (on an opposed resistance roll, noted). The comparison just doesn't look good. There were plenty of other bugged talents, first level talents that outstripped later ones, and higher level talents that were not worth that late slot. Exodus was an improvement in several ways, though it had a puzzling tendency to put more aggression control in the hands of Rogues than Warriors and an obsession with forcing the Player to take multiple, unrelated talents in a tree to enable access deeper. In the end, this isn't just me saying, "No we shouldn't have more spells/talents/abilities than Inquisition." It's only an admonition that such items be carefully chosen and balanced instead of forced in to fit some pre-determined number. Also, I'd like to see more talents that can 'interact' with one another which was slightly explored in Exodus. That's another point: I don't necessarily dislike the control level in Origins. I just wonder (which I think is a good thing for any game and game system), if it can't be done better, at least on an interface level, to offer less of an obstacle to more Players. BTW, what do you consider improvements on the Origins control in Exodus? It would be good to have a closer look. Thanks for your time and thoughts.
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catcher
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Post by catcher on May 23, 2022 23:56:21 GMT
]Okay, I'll take another stab at trying to explain it. <Snip> You don't have to reexplain for me how the first two games worked. I've played them both several times. The important distinction I am trying to make is between an element used and a system utilized. Let me try a different analogy to illustrate. My father-in-law has a well stocked woodshop in his basement with all manners of presses, saws, routers and tools. If I get a hammer out to drive a loose nail back into the deck, I am using his shop, but not utilizing it. When he makes a fretwork clock, he uses several tools, skills, and thus utilizes his shop. What I would like to see are ways to make it easier for more people to do more with the 'wood shop' that is the extensive control of party AI. Is a huge, nested menu system still really the best way for Players to interact with the controls now 11+ years after that design? DAO & DA2 also provided the ability to create custom packages with detailed programming. Players could choose to use that ability or not. Inquisition did strip the ability to create custom packages. You were left with the equivalent of a few presets. Which the Player could choose to alter to his or her heart's content. To me, that is a customizable system . It is not as broad or deep as the Origins/Exodus system, but the Player can pick and choose not only which powers are use or avoided but is one or more are given preference. So, I could certainly understand the criticism "The Inquisition system wasn't as customizable as I would like". I cannot understand the statement that it isn't customizable at all. (That also ignores the fact that you can also control things like when healing potions are or are not consumed and how much stamina/mana reserves each character maintains.) It needs to be programmed somewhere by someone. I suppose the developers could program the AI to avoid hitting rage demons with fire, but there may be cases when doing less damage is better than doing none? Other than that, you'd need to provide the player with tactics programming that would be more detailed and complex than that provided in DAO & DA2. Or you could have a preset where a combo of say Cntl-F3 sets the F3 Spell (Fireball) to Disable, with the appropriate graphical feedback on the actual adventure screen. There's likely even better control methods. The point is the stacked menu interface may not be the best interface for all control options. Is there absolutely, in your mind, no way to entertain other interfaces besides the stacks of menus and scripts? Have you not played any game where you thought, 'That would be good to see in Dragon Age' as far as controls? Or have you never been working on a script and thought, "It would make my life easier if they did this"? If not, then I'm afraid we together don't have much to talk about on this. Nevertheless it has been good to discuss this with you.
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Post by colfoley on May 24, 2022 0:25:19 GMT
I do agree with Catcher on this point. While maybe one could argue they took too much meat off the bone in Inquisition I still found the system overall much preferable to that of the previous two games. On that sort of high level system we shouldn't be a AI character's mommies or daddies telling them when and how to do every little thing, these are supposedly seasoned warriors that should know how to use combat on their own volition. An analogy, if I am in command of a modern military unit and I tell someone to 'hold that bridge' then they should know whether or not they need to use their LMG for the task or a pistol. In other words I want to be able to tell my characters what to do but they should be able to determine how to do it with the resources, abilities, and programming they have at their disposal. Which Andromeda's system seemed to work in this regard as it seems the crew knew intuitively what they had to do to stick within their assigned combat roles and mesh with what I was trying to do. Hopefully DA 4 continues to expand on those options.
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ewigDunkelheit
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on May 24, 2022 16:57:38 GMT
In other words I want to be able to tell my characters what to do but they should be able to determine how to do it with the resources, abilities, and programming they have at their disposal. Which Andromeda's system seemed to work in this regard as it seems the crew knew intuitively what they had to do to stick within their assigned combat roles and mesh with what I was trying to do. Hopefully DA 4 continues to expand on those options.
Why some of us do lament the loss of the more complex tactics scripting system is simply because the A.I just hasn't reached that level of automation yet. There were some improvements after patching, but Inquisition's companions haven't reached the point where they can be autonomous. It is entirely possible that Dragon Age 4 companions will be capable of doing this, however.
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ewigDunkelheit
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on May 24, 2022 17:21:37 GMT
Destroyer probably should win the false advertising award. Assuming you fix it (like Shattering Blows and several other Talents it is bugged), you can remove 5 points of armor from a target for an entire 3 seconds. Given that a two-handed weapon's base attack speed is 2.5 seconds, you are unlikely to get more than one hit is at reduced armor. Sunder Armor give you those two attacks we were talking about AND gives you a whopping -20 armor for 10 seconds (on an opposed resistance roll, noted). BTW, what do you consider improvements on the Origins control in Exodus? It would be good to have a closer look.
I guess I didn't spend enough time with the Two-Handed tree, but I see your point after looking at that tooltip. Even so, I still feel like Destroyer would be the only talent I would skip. In the case of mutually exclusive sustainables, I like being able to choose different approaches and builds, so I am fine with having multiple options in the tree, but it is true that I prefer the branching talent tree system that Exodus started, in which I could choose the sustainable I want, and largely pass over wasting points on the unused choices. Although, I don't know if we will ever see a spell or talent tree that will allow us to one-hundred percent avoid a tax point or two on our way to mastery. So long as it's not excessive (i.e. I have to waste twenty-five percent, or so, of my skill points to reach the abilities I want), I won't mind too much.
It has been a while since I dug realy deep into the systems, though I am replaying right now, but the biggest improvement I remember is the linking feature. In Origins, some actions or abilities are limited in function, or need an additional condition, but you can only tell the system to Jump to Tactic #_ , but this won't prevent the character from simply using that ability on the lower script regardless of circumstances. Exodus reprogrammed the feature to specify the current condition for the immediately following tactic. I had to consult the web to properly identify the other changes, but they include: a Skip Tactics function (admittedly, I haven't found a good use for this), a Party Health identifier, a condition based on quantity of enemies or allies, and a condition based on multiple enemies using a specific attack type.
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Cyberstrike
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Post by Cyberstrike on May 25, 2022 13:28:43 GMT
Honestly some of the stats for weapons, armor, runes, and accessories need to make more sense. DA2 was IMHO the worse offender but the problem was in DAO and DAI that you could equip a rune that would do +587% to enemies or a ring that would protect Hawke with some weird random high number.
If BioWare wants to use a D&D inspired style system at least have stats that make sense to character classes and skills and abilities, along with weapons, armor, runes, accessories, sigils, and not just assign some weird high random number to a weapon, armor, rune, sigil, ring, belt, amulet, and etc to make more powerful when in reality it isn't doesn't make much of change.
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Post by biggydx on May 25, 2022 14:13:37 GMT
Honestly some of the stats for weapons, armor, runes, and accessories need to make more sense. DA2 was IMHO the worse offender but the problem was in DAO and DAI that you could equip a rune that would do +587% to enemies or a ring that would protect Hawke with some weird random high number. If BioWare wants to use a D&D inspired style system at least have stats that make sense to character classes and skills and abilities, along with weapons, armor, runes, accessories, sigils, and not just assign some weird high random number to a weapon, armor, rune, sigil, ring, belt, amulet, and etc to make more powerful when in reality it isn't doesn't make much of change. IIRC, Luke Barrett dropped in here years ago to mention that itemization was one of the aspects that he wanted to see changed in DA4. A lot of that experience, I have to imagine, comes from his time working on DA:Multiplayer. That, and he also mentioned he's a fan of Path of Exile, which is a loot-based game. Doesn't mean we ought to necessarily expect heaps of loot dropping from enemies, but that item stats will - hopefully - be better addressed in the next game.
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Post by wickedcool on May 26, 2022 13:57:30 GMT
All 3 games have parts that you can’t skip and add nothing to the game
Dao-the fade. This is fun but long and you are stuck. Overall it adds very little
Da2-can’t skip the varric tale in begining. It adds nothing to the gameplay. Should be able to skip after first time and go right to character creation
Dai-the aftermath of part 1. The walking in the snowstorm and the song. Love the song but after several times skipping would be nice. Especially the walking in the storm.
Some are cut scenes but others are just tedious. Would love to know the directors thoughts for the dai non skipping over. Why do I have to walk for 2 minutes in a storm just holding a button wishing I could skip this useless
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Polka Dot
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Polka Dot on May 26, 2022 17:16:49 GMT
Okay, I'll take another stab at trying to explain it. <Snip> You don't have to reexplain for me how the first two games worked. I've played them both several times. The important distinction I am trying to make is between an element used and a system utilized. Let me try a different analogy to illustrate. My father-in-law has a well stocked woodshop in his basement with all manners of presses, saws, routers and tools. If I get a hammer out to drive a loose nail back into the deck, I am using his shop, but not utilizing it. When he makes a fretwork clock, he uses several tools, skills, and thus utilizes his shop. What I would like to see are ways to make it easier for more people to do more with the 'wood shop' that is the extensive control of party AI. Is a huge, nested menu system still really the best way for Players to interact with the controls now 11+ years after that design? Okay, so what you're really complaining about is the UI? The tactics programming they provided allowed a lot of leeway for players to prioritize use of talents/spells. The other place we seem to be miscommunicating has to do with language. The simple definition of utilize is "to make use of", so I'm not seeing a difference here. In your analogy, you did use/utilize the shop, you just didn't need very many of the available tools to serve your particular purpose. DAI's system was comparable to selecting a preset package in DAO/DA2. You could have A or B, but not create a C or D or E. It may be fair to say you could "configure" some aspects of follower combat behavior, but the deep customization available in DAO/DA2 was stripped from DAI. And that just gets back to UI presentation. I find it a lot easier to read the specifics in a boolean language than try to memorize or look up keystrokes, but you do you.
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Polka Dot
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 679 Likes: 1,207
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Polka Dot on May 26, 2022 18:09:28 GMT
I do agree with Catcher on this point. While maybe one could argue they took too much meat off the bone in Inquisition I still found the system overall much preferable to that of the previous two games. On that sort of high level system we shouldn't be a AI character's mommies or daddies telling them when and how to do every little thing, these are supposedly seasoned warriors that should know how to use combat on their own volition. Perhaps, but those seasoned warriors did not choose their builds - you did, presumably with some sort of strategy in mind? That sounds a lot like what is known as a strategy game, where you can send squads of units to locations. Regardless, that would still involve being able to command specific units to do a specific thing. Yeah, I found that problematic on multiple occasions. Cora would go charging off and soon be laying in a pile until I figured out how to take out the turret that had dropped her. I vastly prefer the controls afforded me in MET - being able to prime and then detonate 'splosions, strategically positioning squadmates was part of role-playing Shepard as a savvy commander. What I get from a lot of your posts is that you really want hard-core split second action combat and don't really gaf about any sort of team tactics. Team tactical coordination and combat roles have been a staple of party-based RPGs for as long as they've been in existence. Even in MMOs, groups of players form teams with different chars with different abilities tailored for specific combat roles, and often coordinate their efforts by communicating with each other during a raid/battle. Being able to control party members does a couple of things, both of which enhance role-play: 1) It emulates the pre-battle chalk talk the leader would have had with the team, discussing objectives and strategies, and 2) Carries that into the action itself, where the team would be discussing strategies in the moment. You take all of that away when you remove player control of followers.
The bottom line is this: Every character (except the one the player is controlling) in a battle is managed by some AI. The only question is whether and how much of that AI is exposed to the player for possible configuration or customization. I'm always going to favor more player control over less.
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Post by colfoley on May 26, 2022 18:40:08 GMT
I do agree with Catcher on this point. While maybe one could argue they took too much meat off the bone in Inquisition I still found the system overall much preferable to that of the previous two games. On that sort of high level system we shouldn't be a AI character's mommies or daddies telling them when and how to do every little thing, these are supposedly seasoned warriors that should know how to use combat on their own volition. Perhaps, but those seasoned warriors did not choose their builds - you did, presumably with some sort of strategy in mind? That sounds a lot like what is known as a strategy game, where you can send squads of units to locations. Regardless, that would still involve being able to command specific units to do a specific thing. Yeah, I found that problematic on multiple occasions. Cora would go charging off and soon be laying in a pile until I figured out how to take out the turret that had dropped her. I vastly prefer the controls afforded me in MET - being able to prime and then detonate 'splosions, strategically positioning squadmates was part of role-playing Shepard as a savvy commander. What I get from a lot of your posts is that you really want hard-core split second action combat and don't really gaf about any sort of team tactics. Team tactical coordination and combat roles have been a staple of party-based RPGs for as long as they've been in existence. Even in MMOs, groups of players form teams with different chars with different abilities tailored for specific combat roles, and often coordinate their efforts by communicating with each other during a raid/battle. Being able to control party members does a couple of things, both of which enhance role-play: 1) It emulates the pre-battle chalk talk the leader would have had with the team, discussing objectives and strategies, and 2) Carries that into the action itself, where the team would be discussing strategies in the moment. You take all of that away when you remove player control of followers.
The bottom line is this: Every character (except the one the player is controlling) in a battle is managed by some AI. The only question is whether and how much of that AI is exposed to the player for possible configuration or customization. I'm always going to favor more player control over less.
3. I found the controls in the trilogy and Andromeda about the same. You could still position your squad, you could still set up/off combos and the MET squad had FAR worse survivability but then maybe this is to me actively giving orders to my Andromeda squad and working with them. Ryder may not have been that savvy but the opprotunity for RP was there. On the contrary I love tactics and coming up with battle plans for my squad and having them execute I just don't like crawling around in menus to do it. Ghost Recon Breakpoint probably had the best tactical system of any game I've played because it combined the drone system with tactical orders which let me plan out ambushes and assaults. Now it failed in that I had to control the squad as an aggregate and not down to the individual level but hopefully DA4 can adapt that system...even if they give your character a pet bird.
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"Abso-fraggin-lutely!" ~ Captain John Sheridan and Satai Delenn
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September 2016
absafraginlootly
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Absafraginlootly on May 27, 2022 9:51:13 GMT
Something thats in all three games that I'd like them to change/improve is the character build and fighting style variety.
And I don't mean just go classless, because I want more types of abilities, not just more combinations of the same ability trees.
The dragon age class system was already more limited than most in dao, having less classes, skills and weapon options then most class systems I've played. No feats or multi classing etc. Then da2 limited armour, weapons and associated trees by class. Removed skills. And DAI limited the combat styles of mages to primarily blasting primal. Making the da class system even more limited then it started.
I'd like to see more controlling and supporting options to match those AOE, single target damage and DoT spells. And have thematically different options too. The schools were good for this. But if they want to group by something else that's acceptable. Just don't make my every mage an elementalist. If they feel all thats too much for a single class then split the class up. Turn it into 2 or more classes chosen by mages representing the different ways you might have trained to use your magic.
Some more control and support options for other classes would be good to.
I'd like them to add more fighting style trees and weapons to match. Eg • A single weapon duelist style tree: for rapiers and such with off hand options for distraction and diversion. • A Polearm tree: for Spears, Glaives, Halberd, and quarter staffs (it makes no sense that only mages get these) • A Throwing dagger tree: Tallis did this in MotA and it was cool.
I'd like warriors to have a ranged option, a cross bow (regular, not varrics) would be good. But i don't care if they just chuck javelins or hands axes or whatever. I just want them to have a ranged option. Similarily I'd like mages to have a melee option, even if it's just switching from shooting to bonking enemies on the head when they get too close.
I'd also love if mages had more than one item type for focusing their magic. If they keep fighting/weapon style trees restricted by class the mage could still have say, an Arcane Focus tree that empowers their autoattack, with each branch giving a different focus item/weapon eg. staff, orb, wand, sword. The final ability in the tree could be unarmed casting. The Dark Fortress comic indicated that it's hard to concentrate on spells properly without a weapon to focus them. If it's something only very skilled mages can do then it would make an appropriate capstone for such an ability tree.
You could also add more Customization through expanding specialisation content into flavourful subclasses. Or by having more classes than the three we have.
Some examples of classes I can think of - Hybrid classes with their own flavour similar to what mass effect did: • Illusionist - rogue/mage hybrid. illusion magic is a type that our pcs haven't been able to play with yet. But if we can summon fire and protect ourselves w/ shields i don't see why we couldn't summon an image to confuse, frighten or distract, or protect ourselves with Invisibility. This could be the focus, or one of the focuses of a mage/rogue hybrid class. Perhaps give them the ability to turn others invisible to further distinguish them.
• Scout - warrior/Rogue hybrid. A skirmisher. Less tough than a warrior, more tough than a rogue, I'd recommend giving them their own utility abilities instead of just the same as the rogues ones as other wise it could come off as just a tougher rogue. They could bring back the ranger spec from origins to be one of its specs.
• Battlemage - Mage/Warrior. Expand the Arcane Warrior/Knight Enchanter to a whole class. Focused on combat and defensive magic wielded through swords and other warrior weapons as your focus.
And some different class possiblities: • Hedge Mage - the Arcanist derangement that results from mages being untrained. Unique powers can manifest in a variety of ways. This is an opportunity to make a new magic class that's not bound by the rules and expectations of regular trained mages.
• Stone Singer - a dwarf who's been made "pure" like Valta was and uses Titan magic instead of fade magic. Another opportunity to add a new unique class with different abilities and limits. This might not work story wise for da4, or if it does it might work better as a specialisation dwarfs have the opportunity to get.
(If they do change to a classless system then replace the above with profiles and their assigned ability trees that that let you achieve much the same thing)
Class neutral abilities can also provide more options. Inquisitions knowledge options and lock picking upgrade perks basically were it's version of the class neutral skills of dao and other systems. Attaching them to a whole other progression system instead of just getting a perk/skill point at certain levels seems unnecessary. Since it seems like the next protagonist won't have a whole organisation, they could dump organisation perks and expand the pc and party specific "perks" moving them to the leveling up process. Eg Ones that improve party effectiveness and ones that unlock conversation and exploration options.
I don't think they will remove class restrictions on weapons and armour but that would obviously add more build variety too.
_____
Something thats in all 3 games that I don't want them to lose is the ability to pause and issue commands to all my party.
Not only do I enjoy assessing the situation, to decide what the best strategy for my fully controlled party to try against the enemy, taking as much time as i like and continuing to make those choices about positioning and ability use throughout the fight. But whether i can pause and whether the character attacks and dodges on their own or requires my own response times/reflexes directly affects how much i can play the game. I'm chronically ill, a game that I can still play when I'm not at my best is a game I can play more and enjoy more. While I enjoyed Mass Effect Andromedas story I've only finished it once where usually i would play a bioware rpg many times. Having no pause button means spending alot of combat mashing buttons and having no time to give what few commands the squad still has. And not having the energy and concentration to do it often. The pause button and tactical menu makes the mass effect trilogy a lot more playable for me. So given that and given that dragon age's combat system is my favourite that I've played (inquisition less so but it still comes out ahead), you can imagine how disappointed i would be if they removed those features and dragon age became a game i can't play much and on story mode.
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"Abso-fraggin-lutely!" ~ Captain John Sheridan and Satai Delenn
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absafraginlootly
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Absafraginlootly on May 27, 2022 10:19:13 GMT
My feelings on classless systems in general are mixed.
There is the obvious benefit of Customization, allowing you to choose abilities that best match your character concept without concern for preset combinations. As someone who enjoys making characters this appeals to me.
But I have seen classless systems where different abilities could feel rather samey.
More specifically in dragon age the thing that concerns me is to do with lore and background content. Which to be fair would also apply to a class system game if they allowed you to change your class part way through the game. Like through the Mirror of Transformation in the Black Emporium for example. Whether or not you're a mage has a huge effect on your life in Thedas. It seems to me that to facilitate change between not a mage and being a mage (and vice versa) the background/s and their main game content would either have to be the same regardless of class (which would disappoint me) or not have significant background content at all, just the occasional slightly different dialogue based on whether you have a mage ability or not (which would disappoint me more). I love having unique content based on your background, race, and in dragon age's case, your class (due to the nature of mages in this franchise). I don't expect them to bring back origins at this point (as much as I'd like it) but I have hopes of them adding background related quests (like Shepard had in me1, much better then what we got at the war table), and more conversations relating to it than dai had. I'd like to see different background choices including ones for mages, or if they insist on having only one background, then I'd like to be able to customise that background (like how you could choose a significant event in your career history in me1). And in general for whether you're a mage or not to feel like it matters.
I can see a way to do that with a semi classless system. By choosing between a Martial option who has all non magical ability trees to select from, and a Mage Option who has those trees and additionally the magic ability trees. With the same number of ability points, so the more you invest in the warrior and rogue trees the less points you have for investing in your magic ones. This way you would have increased versatility and can still try out a new tree/play styles midgame or change your abilities entirely - without sacrificing mage and non mage content, limiting background options, or causing weird retcony moments when you level or respec.
(Whether your choice between martial and magic affects which backgrounds you can choose, or whether your background choices affects whether you can choose martial, mage, or both - is much of a muchness)
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Post by colfoley on May 29, 2022 20:44:42 GMT
Something thats in all three games that I'd like them to change/improve is the character build and fighting style variety. And I don't mean just go classless, because I want more types of abilities, not just more combinations of the same ability trees. The dragon age class system was already more limited than most in dao, having less classes, skills and weapon options then most class systems I've played. No feats or multi classing etc. Then da2 limited armour, weapons and associated trees by class. Removed skills. And DAI limited the combat styles of mages to primarily blasting primal. Making the da class system even more limited then it started. I'd like to see more controlling and supporting options to match those AOE, single target damage and DoT spells. And have thematically different options too. The schools were good for this. But if they want to group by something else that's acceptable. Just don't make my every mage an elementalist. If they feel all thats too much for a single class then split the class up. Turn it into 2 or more classes chosen by mages representing the different ways you might have trained to use your magic. Some more control and support options for other classes would be good to. I'd like them to add more fighting style trees and weapons to match. Eg • A single weapon duelist style tree: for rapiers and such with off hand options for distraction and diversion. • A Polearm tree: for Spears, Glaives, Halberd, and quarter staffs (it makes no sense that only mages get these) • A Throwing dagger tree: Tallis did this in MotA and it was cool. I'd like warriors to have a ranged option, a cross bow (regular, not varrics) would be good. But i don't care if they just chuck javelins or hands axes or whatever. I just want them to have a ranged option. Similarily I'd like mages to have a melee option, even if it's just switching from shooting to bonking enemies on the head when they get too close. I'd also love if mages had more than one item type for focusing their magic. If they keep fighting/weapon style trees restricted by class the mage could still have say, an Arcane Focus tree that empowers their autoattack, with each branch giving a different focus item/weapon eg. staff, orb, wand, sword. The final ability in the tree could be unarmed casting. The Dark Fortress comic indicated that it's hard to concentrate on spells properly without a weapon to focus them. If it's something only very skilled mages can do then it would make an appropriate capstone for such an ability tree. You could also add more Customization through expanding specialisation content into flavourful subclasses. Or by having more classes than the three we have. Some examples of classes I can think of - Hybrid classes with their own flavour similar to what mass effect did: • Illusionist - rogue/mage hybrid. illusion magic is a type that our pcs haven't been able to play with yet. But if we can summon fire and protect ourselves w/ shields i don't see why we couldn't summon an image to confuse, frighten or distract, or protect ourselves with Invisibility. This could be the focus, or one of the focuses of a mage/rogue hybrid class. Perhaps give them the ability to turn others invisible to further distinguish them. • Scout - warrior/Rogue hybrid. A skirmisher. Less tough than a warrior, more tough than a rogue, I'd recommend giving them their own utility abilities instead of just the same as the rogues ones as other wise it could come off as just a tougher rogue. They could bring back the ranger spec from origins to be one of its specs. • Battlemage - Mage/Warrior. Expand the Arcane Warrior/Knight Enchanter to a whole class. Focused on combat and defensive magic wielded through swords and other warrior weapons as your focus. And some different class possiblities: • Hedge Mage - the Arcanist derangement that results from mages being untrained. Unique powers can manifest in a variety of ways. This is an opportunity to make a new magic class that's not bound by the rules and expectations of regular trained mages. • Stone Singer - a dwarf who's been made "pure" like Valta was and uses Titan magic instead of fade magic. Another opportunity to add a new unique class with different abilities and limits. This might not work story wise for da4, or if it does it might work better as a specialisation dwarfs have the opportunity to get. (If they do change to a classless system then replace the above with profiles and their assigned ability trees that that let you achieve much the same thing) Class neutral abilities can also provide more options. Inquisitions knowledge options and lock picking upgrade perks basically were it's version of the class neutral skills of dao and other systems. Attaching them to a whole other progression system instead of just getting a perk/skill point at certain levels seems unnecessary. Since it seems like the next protagonist won't have a whole organisation, they could dump organisation perks and expand the pc and party specific "perks" moving them to the leveling up process. Eg Ones that improve party effectiveness and ones that unlock conversation and exploration options. I don't think they will remove class restrictions on weapons and armour but that would obviously add more build variety too. _____ Something thats in all 3 games that I don't want them to lose is the ability to pause and issue commands to all my party. Not only do I enjoy assessing the situation, to decide what the best strategy for my fully controlled party to try against the enemy, taking as much time as i like and continuing to make those choices about positioning and ability use throughout the fight. But whether i can pause and whether the character attacks and dodges on their own or requires my own response times/reflexes directly affects how much i can play the game. I'm chronically ill, a game that I can still play when I'm not at my best is a game I can play more and enjoy more. While I enjoyed Mass Effect Andromedas story I've only finished it once where usually i would play a bioware rpg many times. Having no pause button means spending alot of combat mashing buttons and having no time to give what few commands the squad still has. And not having the energy and concentration to do it often. The pause button and tactical menu makes the mass effect trilogy a lot more playable for me. So given that and given that dragon age's combat system is my favourite that I've played (inquisition less so but it still comes out ahead), you can imagine how disappointed i would be if they removed those features and dragon age became a game i can't play much and on story mode. I don't know the big complaint about latest BioWare...well of the many...is that the disconnect between controller and PC when it comes to having different ability bindings and not being able to map the same...which creates an unbalanced system between the two or PC players lose out on the number of abilities they can equip at any one time. Now there have been a lot of different suggestions around this which could all end up being viable but I would hesitate to have an increase in actual abilities... Instead I do half wonder if maybe one way of going about it but instead have different combinations. Things like GoW or Amalur or a fighting game or the LOTRs games back int he day where you press certain button prompts rapidly it can create a certain effect. -or- You have fewer overall abilities but more variety within the abilities of what you can do. Now this might not be practical with mages but you can have different evolutions for each ability throughout that again can do different things with the abilities you have created.
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"Abso-fraggin-lutely!" ~ Captain John Sheridan and Satai Delenn
1,666
September 2016
absafraginlootly
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Absafraginlootly on May 29, 2022 23:31:57 GMT
Something thats in all three games that I'd like them to change/improve is the character build and fighting style variety. And I don't mean just go classless, because I want more types of abilities, not just more combinations of the same ability trees. The dragon age class system was already more limited than most in dao, having less classes, skills and weapon options then most class systems I've played. No feats or multi classing etc. Then da2 limited armour, weapons and associated trees by class. Removed skills. And DAI limited the combat styles of mages to primarily blasting primal. Making the da class system even more limited then it started. I'd like to see more controlling and supporting options to match those AOE, single target damage and DoT spells. And have thematically different options too. The schools were good for this. But if they want to group by something else that's acceptable. Just don't make my every mage an elementalist. If they feel all thats too much for a single class then split the class up. Turn it into 2 or more classes chosen by mages representing the different ways you might have trained to use your magic. Some more control and support options for other classes would be good to. I'd like them to add more fighting style trees and weapons to match. Eg • A single weapon duelist style tree: for rapiers and such with off hand options for distraction and diversion. • A Polearm tree: for Spears, Glaives, Halberd, and quarter staffs (it makes no sense that only mages get these) • A Throwing dagger tree: Tallis did this in MotA and it was cool. I'd like warriors to have a ranged option, a cross bow (regular, not varrics) would be good. But i don't care if they just chuck javelins or hands axes or whatever. I just want them to have a ranged option. Similarily I'd like mages to have a melee option, even if it's just switching from shooting to bonking enemies on the head when they get too close. I'd also love if mages had more than one item type for focusing their magic. If they keep fighting/weapon style trees restricted by class the mage could still have say, an Arcane Focus tree that empowers their autoattack, with each branch giving a different focus item/weapon eg. staff, orb, wand, sword. The final ability in the tree could be unarmed casting. The Dark Fortress comic indicated that it's hard to concentrate on spells properly without a weapon to focus them. If it's something only very skilled mages can do then it would make an appropriate capstone for such an ability tree. You could also add more Customization through expanding specialisation content into flavourful subclasses. Or by having more classes than the three we have. Some examples of classes I can think of - Hybrid classes with their own flavour similar to what mass effect did: • Illusionist - rogue/mage hybrid. illusion magic is a type that our pcs haven't been able to play with yet. But if we can summon fire and protect ourselves w/ shields i don't see why we couldn't summon an image to confuse, frighten or distract, or protect ourselves with Invisibility. This could be the focus, or one of the focuses of a mage/rogue hybrid class. Perhaps give them the ability to turn others invisible to further distinguish them. • Scout - warrior/Rogue hybrid. A skirmisher. Less tough than a warrior, more tough than a rogue, I'd recommend giving them their own utility abilities instead of just the same as the rogues ones as other wise it could come off as just a tougher rogue. They could bring back the ranger spec from origins to be one of its specs. • Battlemage - Mage/Warrior. Expand the Arcane Warrior/Knight Enchanter to a whole class. Focused on combat and defensive magic wielded through swords and other warrior weapons as your focus. And some different class possiblities: • Hedge Mage - the Arcanist derangement that results from mages being untrained. Unique powers can manifest in a variety of ways. This is an opportunity to make a new magic class that's not bound by the rules and expectations of regular trained mages. • Stone Singer - a dwarf who's been made "pure" like Valta was and uses Titan magic instead of fade magic. Another opportunity to add a new unique class with different abilities and limits. This might not work story wise for da4, or if it does it might work better as a specialisation dwarfs have the opportunity to get. (If they do change to a classless system then replace the above with profiles and their assigned ability trees that that let you achieve much the same thing) Class neutral abilities can also provide more options. Inquisitions knowledge options and lock picking upgrade perks basically were it's version of the class neutral skills of dao and other systems. Attaching them to a whole other progression system instead of just getting a perk/skill point at certain levels seems unnecessary. Since it seems like the next protagonist won't have a whole organisation, they could dump organisation perks and expand the pc and party specific "perks" moving them to the leveling up process. Eg Ones that improve party effectiveness and ones that unlock conversation and exploration options. I don't think they will remove class restrictions on weapons and armour but that would obviously add more build variety too. _____ Something thats in all 3 games that I don't want them to lose is the ability to pause and issue commands to all my party. Not only do I enjoy assessing the situation, to decide what the best strategy for my fully controlled party to try against the enemy, taking as much time as i like and continuing to make those choices about positioning and ability use throughout the fight. But whether i can pause and whether the character attacks and dodges on their own or requires my own response times/reflexes directly affects how much i can play the game. I'm chronically ill, a game that I can still play when I'm not at my best is a game I can play more and enjoy more. While I enjoyed Mass Effect Andromedas story I've only finished it once where usually i would play a bioware rpg many times. Having no pause button means spending alot of combat mashing buttons and having no time to give what few commands the squad still has. And not having the energy and concentration to do it often. The pause button and tactical menu makes the mass effect trilogy a lot more playable for me. So given that and given that dragon age's combat system is my favourite that I've played (inquisition less so but it still comes out ahead), you can imagine how disappointed i would be if they removed those features and dragon age became a game i can't play much and on story mode. I don't know the big complaint about latest BioWare...well of the many...is that the disconnect between controller and PC when it comes to having different ability bindings and not being able to map the same...which creates an unbalanced system between the two or PC players lose out on the number of abilities they can equip at any one time. Now there have been a lot of different suggestions around this which could all end up being viable but I would hesitate to have an increase in actual abilities... Instead I do half wonder if maybe one way of going about it but instead have different combinations. Things like GoW or Amalur or a fighting game or the LOTRs games back int he day where you press certain button prompts rapidly it can create a certain effect. -or- You have fewer overall abilities but more variety within the abilities of what you can do. Now this might not be practical with mages but you can have different evolutions for each ability throughout that again can do different things with the abilities you have created. Having more options doesn't mean you get more ability points to spend on them or that you need a larger bar for your learned abilities. It just means you have more things to choose from. As for the console i think they'd do well to adapt the Andromeda favorites bars. With four groups of three you'd only need 3 keys for abilities and 1 for cycling through them, if they remove the extra cool down when you change then this would be a great way to get more ability slots for console.
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catcher
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 246 Likes: 414
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catcher
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February 2021
catcher
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by catcher on May 30, 2022 15:41:52 GMT
I would have preferred a continued refinement of the gameplay of DAO in each iteration, rather than the gradual slide to the mass-market design of ARPG. People may take offense to this, but I don't think I'm lying when I say that DAO was made for DnD nerds that were blown away by the presentation of 3rd person cinematic camera available all the time, with an instant (and still really well-implemented IMO) pause and change to the "classic" isometric perspective and ability to micromanage to your hearts content. Control your team, make combos, have them act according to your design. The game was not made for everybody, and that is a large part of its beauty that is lost on some people here, even if they overall like the game. This is in no way telling anyone that DAO is best title, or that you are wrong in your thinking if you like it the least. I am simply talking about the motivation for making the game at the time - it was not a cookie cutter made for maximum profit, it was made quite literally as a long labor of love. Success is a dangerous thing, as we have all had the opportunity to see great and terrible things from the result of BioWare's early successes. So, I guess that is "lingering"? It isn't really, more something that has accumulated. Best I could manage, it is a good question! Thanks for the candor. Let me offer a counterpoint via advice from noted gaming philosopher Mr. Rich Berlew Evolve or Die Money, and making more money, is more significant in the creation of Origins than the gauzy, gamer dream you spin. Bioware went with creating its own IP after Neverwinter Nights for several reasons all related to money. First, they wanted out from under the payments for the D&D license which were growing with every successful Bioware game, sapping profits. Second, they also wanted more freedom to write stories the way they wanted to without WotC supervising risks and limits. The whole dark, lower fantasy feel of Origins was because Bioware didn't have to check with WotC editors. Third, licensing issues almost sunk the release of Neverwinter Nights three years before. NWN almost didn't ship when it was completed with a legal snafu on licensing and publishing, a result that would have been a disaster for Bioware if it hadn't been resolved quickly as it was. Origins began with making money firmly in mind, as all games do. Some people just assign a 'love' component to games they are really nostalgic about. Another thing about Origins and money, it had the oddest development history of any Bioware game until possibly now. It was under development for over six years, an unheard of amount of time for a game of pretty much any era (until now ). In that time there was not one but two acquisitions (Elevation Partners in 2005 then EA in 2007 that infused Bioware with large amounts of cash. There was also the significant financial success of the Mass Effect series. All of this funded the slow cooking process that created Origins. DA4 doesn't have anything like this luxury with the financial disappointments of Anthem and Andromeda, the changes in direction, etc. If DA4 sells like Origins, Bioware may not survive to get to Mass Effect 5 much less Next Age. That is simply the realty of making games in 2022. Which brings us to Evolve or Die. Even if Origins had been handed to Bioware on a set of magic floppies by Sid Meier and Warren Ellis themselves, simply iterating the same game again today would be a waste of talent and business insanity. There is little chance that DA4 releases by November 2022. Much better chance but still not a sure thing that it releases by November 2023. That's 13-14 years since the release of Origins. For reference, that's about the same length of time between Origins and....wait for it... Shattered Steel. What if Bioware had just stuck with the mech combat and wireframe technology knockoffs of Mechwarrior? For better or for worse, DA4 should be as different a game from Origins as Origins is from Baldurs Gate 1. That doesn't necessarily mean that core concepts like Player control of companion actions has to be eliminated, but it does mean that there should be change and preferably change that expands the appeal and use of the system. After all, in BG2 there were selectable AI scripts like the ones in Origins but they were completely opaque to the Player. In NWN, you could queue up your own actions but basically, the Player had no control of the Companions outside of some basic directives. Origins gifted the Player with more control and transparency even if the Player didn't want that level of control. What if DA4 puts more elements on the HUD instead of the having to drop out of the game into a separate menu so you can adjust your companions tactics set from Support to Aggressive or Aggressive to Defensive on the fly? What if they whittled down 30-40% of the menu choices by eliminating redundancies and most unused options to simply streamline the interface? What if they made the menu easier to use by making use of context sensitivity? What if they added the ability it put together combos of talents/spells kind of like the old Spell Sequencers from BG2 but you could trigger directly from the combat interface in stream rather than seeing it used by the AI script on a less suitable target? These are all just little things I've come up with off the top of my head and I have nowhere near the time or depth of experience that the developers at Bioware have, much less the developers at so many other studios that have released excellent games since late 2009. I've been here before, with 'The Fandom' that is quite certain that evolution in systems is a betrayal of trust. Sometimes it's termed as 'dumbing down', sometimes 'chasing the wrong audience', no matter the wording some feature or group of features is seen as sacrosanct and some other group of Players as unworthy. In BG2, it was the targeted landing spots instead of wandering through open terrain looking for encounters. In NWN, it was the move to 3D art that was taking too many resources from other priorities and 3E rules that weren't as tough on the Players as the older 2E D&D rules. In Origins, many of those self-same "D&D Nerds" were horrified that you got back all your health and stamina/mana after a combat and the whole party had to die for anyone to die. Further, the spells and talents with their cooldowns and mana limits was a betrayal of the sacred game of resource attrition from the D&D ruleset. Origins was just trying to be another MMORPG-like. The beat, as they say, goes on. So do I, and I'm afraid for too long. If I leave with one admonition it is: keep the faith while learning new ones from other Players. What's on the other side of that hill is not The Enemy. It's more Players like you and I but also different. Teach them. Learn from them. Expand what the game means beyond what it once was. Otherwise, we are all diminished even if Bioware somehow muddles on. As always, thanks for your time.
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