Hawke
N3
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Post by Hawke on Aug 4, 2022 14:02:35 GMT
I've been replaying the trilogy and the lack of accountability of the Alliance is becoming somehow uncomfortable.
Is there any story explanation why Shepard, a Spectre who answers only to the Council, cannot report a human organisation for routinely blowing up other species' facilities?
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 4, 2022 14:43:00 GMT
Which facility did they blow up?
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Hawke
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Hawke on Aug 5, 2022 15:44:25 GMT
Which facility did they blow up? A batarian research facility. Granted, they probably were indoctrinated, but still. (Kasumi's loyalty quest).
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 5, 2022 17:30:48 GMT
Which facility did they blow up? A batarian research facility. Granted, they probably were indoctrinated, but still. (Kasumi's loyalty quest). Kasumi's loyalty quest? We just went to Hock's party, stole some stuff, shot down his gunship and left.
Edit: Oh, you mean the data she acquired. I forgot what was on there though I did think it had something do with the hanar based on ME3.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 5, 2022 17:48:38 GMT
A batarian research facility. Granted, they probably were indoctrinated, but still. (Kasumi's loyalty quest). Kasumi's loyalty quest? We just went to Hock's party, stole some stuff, shot down his gunship and left.
Edit: Oh, you mean the data she acquired. I forgot what was on there though I did think it had something do with the hanar based on ME3.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 5, 2022 18:02:35 GMT
Which facility did they blow up? A batarian research facility. Granted, they probably were indoctrinated, but still. (Kasumi's loyalty quest). Shepard doesn’t learn about that until ME3, at which point the Council has far bigger things to deal with. |
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Hawke
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Hawke on Aug 5, 2022 18:20:58 GMT
A batarian research facility. Granted, they probably were indoctrinated, but still. (Kasumi's loyalty quest). Shepard doesn’t learn about that until ME3, at which point the Council has far bigger things to deal with. The greybox mentions that it can be dangerous for the Alliance if the Council learns about this, but not what the information is exactly. So, it would make sense to forward it to the Council.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 5, 2022 19:01:57 GMT
Shepard doesn’t learn about that until ME3, at which point the Council has far bigger things to deal with. The greybox mentions that it can be dangerous for the Alliance if the Council learns about this, but not what the information is exactly. So, it would make sense to forward it to the Council. At the time Shepard might not even be working for the Council. But yes, it would make sense to forward it. However your mission needed Kasumi loyal, so Shepard didn’t for her sake and the sake of the mission. It was also useless to the Council since only Kasumi could access it, and she has no reason to give the info to the Council. Until ME3 when she does. |
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 5, 2022 19:10:10 GMT
Also, while you have a lot of freedom in how you play your Shepard, there are certain aspects of the character you cannot control. For example, Shepard will always be pro-Earth/pro-humanity, no matter what. You may decide if they lean more into the direction of Cerberus or the Alliance as a matter of who best serves humanities interests but you can't really play a Shepard who would intentionally betray secrets that would harm humanity and potentially start a war with the batarians. It's just a limitation of the RPG aspects of the games.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Hawke on Aug 5, 2022 19:36:09 GMT
The greybox mentions that it can be dangerous for the Alliance if the Council learns about this, but not what the information is exactly. So, it would make sense to forward it to the Council. At the time Shepard might not even be working for the Council. But yes, it would make sense to forward it. However your mission needed Kasumi loyal, so Shepard didn’t for her sake and the sake of the mission. It was also useless to the Council since only Kasumi could access it, and she has no reason to give the info to the Council. Until ME3 when she does. Thank you. Also, while you have a lot of freedom in how you play your Shepard, there are certain aspects of the character you cannot control. For example, Shepard will always be pro-Earth/pro-humanity, no matter what. You may decide if they lean more into the direction of Cerberus or the Alliance as a matter of who best serves humanities interests but you can't really play a Shepard who would intentionally betray secrets that would harm humanity and potentially start a war with the batarians. It's just a limitation of the RPG aspects of the games. True and frustrating, even more so in ME3. It would be interesting to see if your point of contact and the location of the final level in ME3 depended on your standing with the Council.
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N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 6, 2022 17:09:21 GMT
End analysis is that I would protect the Alliance. Just look at the asari. They know they have this Prothean artifact in one of their temples. Some asari might find that to be bad and turn in the asari for it. They don't. The experiments the salarians continue to do on less "advanced" species ought to be something reported to the Council. It isn't, even by Shepard, Wrex and anyone else brought to Sur'Kesh. Turians seem to have fairy clean hands. Basically, people look out for their own and the last thing Shepard might want is for the Alliance to be booted from the Council. Is that what you'd really want?
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Hawke on Aug 6, 2022 23:54:58 GMT
End analysis is that I would protect the Alliance. Just look at the asari. They know they have this Prothean artifact in one of their temples. Some asari might find that to be bad and turn in the asari for it. They don't. The experiments the salarians continue to do on less "advanced" species ought to be something reported to the Council. It isn't, even by Shepard, Wrex and anyone else brought to Sur'Kesh. Turians seem to have fairy clean hands. Basically, people look out for their own and the last thing Shepard might want is for the Alliance to be booted from the Council. Is that what you'd really want? Everyone being dishonest does not make the Alliance look better, so yes, would interesting to see the outcome, even if it's Shepard giving a high-level Paragon speech and the asari and salarians recognizing the errors of their ways (like it was with the quarians and the geth).
(I do think that the inability to report the experiments and the artifact is disappointing).
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Post by themikefest on Aug 8, 2022 11:47:16 GMT
End analysis is that I would protect the Alliance. Protect them from what? Themselves? Look at King Clown Anderscum, Hackett the Slackett and the committee of clowns. The people of Earth need to know how inept the Alliance leadership is. The trilogy tells you that. They made it very clear they don't care about the soldiers as seen with the destruction of the SR1. In ME4, I like to see the whole leadership of the Alliance removed, if they haven't been by the reapers, replaced with leaders who care about the soldiers who join. This is different from the secrets other species had. The artifact could have saved x number of lives by ending the war earlier. I wouldn't be surprised if the council knows. They knew the salarians uplifted the kkrogan to fight the rachni. They knew the salarians came up with the genophage. Of course people will look out for their own, but in the case of the asari, that excuse won't work. They sat back while the rest of the galaxy was being beat up by the reapers. It's only when the reapers showed up at their front door they asked for help. They never cared. Imagine if the artifact wasn't needed? The asari would likely have suffered minor loses while the rest of the galaxy would be in very bad shape. The asari would silently pump their fist knowing they remain top dog. Would I want the Alliance booted from the council? Yes. What have they done that benefitted the Alliance and/or humanity as a whole? I would build up our military to at least 10% of Earth's population. It would tell the council and the rest of the galaxy don't **** with us.
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N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 8, 2022 16:35:44 GMT
Protect them from what? Themselves? Look at King Clown Anderscum, Hackett the Slackett and the committee of clowns. The people of Earth need to know how inept the Alliance leadership is. The trilogy tells you that. They made it very clear they don't care about the soldiers as seen with the destruction of the SR1. In ME4, I like to see the whole leadership of the Alliance removed, if they haven't been by the reapers, replaced with leaders who care about the soldiers who join. The Council is also inept so it's not like they're any different. Let's put it this way. Would you sell out the US? This is different from the secrets other species had. The artifact could have saved x number of lives by ending the war earlier. I know. And they only gave that secret up as a last resort because Thessia was under fire. They screwed themselves, and a lot of lives in the galaxy, over that one. That goes beyond inept into criminal. I wouldn't be surprised if the council knows. They knew the salarians uplifted the kkrogan to fight the rachni. They knew the salarians came up with the genophage. The krogan had a purpose, as did the genophage. The yahg? No idea. That had to already be something they were working on prior to the Reaper invasion. Would I want the Alliance booted from the council? Yes. What have they done that benefitted the Alliance and/or humanity as a whole? I would build up our military to at least 10% of Earth's population. It would tell the council and the rest of the galaxy don't **** with us. Maybe. But then what? We're effectively cut off from the rest of the galaxy. There's even dialogue about going out to explore the galaxy only do discover it's already been settled. All sounds so simple until we have nowhere to go. The only major colonies we had were Eden Prime, which was destroyed twice, and Terra Nova. The rest are small and we know for a back that some of them want nothing to do with the Alliance. So where to we go? Andromeda? |
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 8, 2022 21:23:35 GMT
Meh. The Alliance (both their government and their military) are a joke.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 8, 2022 23:43:56 GMT
The Council is also inept so it's not like they're any different. Let's put it this way. Would you sell out the US? Just because the council is inept doesn't mean the Alliance has to be. Selling out the US? One is a country, the other is an organization. I would not sell out the country, but the government........  I would replace them with ones who actually do something and not sit around taking the shape of their chair. I would not be surprised if the other species wanted their heads. I'm sure if that knowledge were made public, the asari would be in a world of hurt. What I'm saying is we, humanity, won't be pushed around by a few dingbats because of their laws. If anything, I would do what Shepard did in ME3. Deal with their leadership directly ignoring the council since they don't have much power outside of the Citadel. It's possible other species may break away from the council to do their own thing without being strapped to council laws that, at least in the case of the asari, are ignored.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 9, 2022 18:22:18 GMT
Just because the council is inept doesn't mean the Alliance has to be. Selling out the US? One is a country, the other is an organization. I would not sell out the country, but the government........ I would replace them with ones who actually do something and not sit around taking the shape of their chair. But at what point would this even happen? The Systems Alliance is the military for Earth. If you take them down you take down Earth's military. It would also be removing the economic and exploratory aspect. Every nation on Earth (and there are still independent nations_ has thrown in their military and money. Now that's ruined. And are we really turning on the Alliance as the Reapers are on their way? We also don't know how the Alliance is structured. Members from every nation? Maybe. Then what? Spend a lot of time replacing all of them and then showing them how their jobs are supposed to work? There is a Prime Minister who could easily be replaced but that person wouldn't be dictating things. Anderson and Hackett both believed the Reapers were coming. That's why Hackett remained in touch with Shepard and handed him or her the Arrival mission. Hackett is also the one who made sure someone was looking into the Mars Archives while Shepard was locked up - because he knew what was coming. It seems like he had to find ways around stonewalling. As for Anderson, I don't know. Remember, these are the military guys. They don't get to set policy. Anderson is very likely the reason why Shepard was being held in protective custody rather than rotting in jail. I know the idea of taking them all out sounds like fun but I just can't see how it would actually work once you dive into the codexes and see how it all works. What I'm saying is we, humanity, won't be pushed around by a few dingbats because of their laws. If anything, I would do what Shepard did in ME3. Deal with their leadership directly ignoring the council since they don't have much power outside of the Citadel. Who are they dealing with? The races who are part of the Council? It's not in their best interests to weaken their overall power structure. Once they stop following their own laws then galactic unity itself falls apart. Then there will be pirates and whatever else nipping at each empire, cutting them down and gaining more power. The galaxy is worse because they no longer have a united defense. I just can't see why any of those races would make side deals. It was different with the war because there was significant need. Outside of war? They'd say fine, do your thing but if you choose to remain outside of the Council rules then you're basically quarians and batarians. |
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I would replace them with ones who actually do something and not sit around taking the shape of their chair.