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Post by Iddy on Aug 12, 2022 12:27:03 GMT
As in the title.
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Post by sageoflife on Aug 13, 2022 6:05:21 GMT
Hard to say. While few will argue that there should be no enforcement to prevent the abuse of magic, the Templars have done a tremendous amount of damage to their credibility as an institution with things like illegal Annulments.
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githcheater
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Post by githcheater on Aug 13, 2022 14:09:05 GMT
Defund the Templars. LOL
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Post by themikefest on Aug 13, 2022 14:18:03 GMT
Keep them. They have training and experience fighting. Mages may be gone, but they can defend a village and cities from whatever wants to cause harm.
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Post by xerrai on Aug 14, 2022 23:15:57 GMT
Keep them. They have training and experience fighting. Mages may be gone, but they can defend a village and cities from whatever wants to cause harm. I would generally agree, but that would be highly dependent on who is supplying them. Lyrium, I mean. Because at their core, templars are not just anti-magic warrions, but addicts. Addicts that are liable to hallucinate, lose memories, get tweaked out of their mind, and so on if their symptoms are not managed. They are a double-edged sword in that manner, and are ultimately liable to become a great danger to their cause when lyrium addiction starts to set in. Or if the supply of lyrium is controlled by those who wish to manipulate them to their own ends. And keep in mind, these aren't just issues if there isn't enough lyrium to go around, but is just a reality of being on lyrium for so long. Even the best supplied officer will have their memories compromised eventually, and age is not always the main contributor to that. It's just the result of constant lyrium ingestion. So while keeping them around as anti-magic muscle is all fine and good....I'd rather hand off their investigative duties to people with more stable heads. Have the templars be assisted by non-templar investigators and/or other forms of law enforcement that do not have lyrium-addled brains. Heck, get Chantry members or other mages to assist with that stuff, if you don't trust the locals to be impartial about it. Just give them some training in investigative techniques and be sure to arrange system of checks and balances and internal investigations. But keeping the templars as they are as anti-magic warriors AND magic investigators AND Circle wardens is just asking for trouble and repeats of past offenses.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Aug 22, 2022 14:58:50 GMT
The problem with Templars was never their training. The problem was who was holding their leash. Templar training is extremely useful but the chantry should not have been the ones to have authority over the templars. It would be better off if the nations of Thedas trained their own Templars and included them in their military and law enforcement infrastructure. They need to be more like civil servants and less like religious zealots.
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mrobnoxiousuk
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Aug 25, 2022 20:12:22 GMT
The Templars should no longer be the jailers of Mages but still around as a hard counter to any aspiring mages with dreams of world conquest.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 26, 2022 14:53:29 GMT
An anti-magical force with mages and non-mages would be better – and more effective to handle the magical accidents (first manifestation of magic included), and magical crimes too.
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Post by yarus on Sept 5, 2022 2:38:29 GMT
I don't see how, given the worldbuilding of DA, mages can be free. I also don't think many people agree on what "freedom" means in the series. But to answer your question, Templars will always exist in some fashion or another. Except in some worldstates they'd be called Witch Hunters, or the Inquisition, or Silver Shield. The Templars are a manifestation of an idea/necessary counter to the threat mages pose.
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Exile Isan
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You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Exile Isan on Oct 1, 2022 5:21:07 GMT
I think you need Templars. As long as you have magic, you will have somebody who uses it badly. You need a police force that specializes in dealing with magical crimes. I think these groups should be both mages and templars, however, not just templars. Essentially, they need to be like the Aurors in Harry Potter.
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Post by dayze on Oct 3, 2022 16:04:50 GMT
I would say make a slight change with how they are run; have the seekers take over general management and actually do their job for a change in regards to making sure the Templars' don't get out of hand, DA2 wasn't the first time Templars went crazy in Kirkwall but the Seekers never bothered to get involved despite that being their stated purpose.
A anti-magic force that could function together from different aspects of society ala the Grey Wardens or the Ash Warriors probably wouldn't be a bad idea.
Makes me wonder why we never saw anything like that as some kind of secret enforcers of the circle, some spirit/battle mage that squashes anything that might give mages a bad image ala rogue blood mages and the like, considering the spirit mage category had a pretty decent chunk of anti-magic abilities.
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Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Oct 17, 2022 13:20:47 GMT
I think you need Templars. As long as you have magic, you will have somebody who uses it badly. You need a police force that specializes in dealing with magical crimes. I think these groups should be both mages and templars, however, not just templars. Essentially, they need to be like the Aurors in Harry Potter. Yeah I think templars aer needed because if there is on ething I do agree with Vivienne on in th eworld of Thedas even if she's as cold as ice it's tha tMagic is dangreous just as fire is. If it burns ou tof control you're screwed. So you do need somebody willing and able to put that fire out before it gets out of control. For me that's where the templars come in. For me the yshould be used as fire fighters to deal with magic that's out of control not as mage jailors. Because not all mages want to be or become criminals. A lo tof mages just want to use their unique abilities to help such as Wynne in DAO. She left the Ferelden Circle t oassist the warden with their mission . Dorian as ewll wanted t oshow that mages can be a force for good even if he was part of a counrty where things are done differently given mages rule Tevinter. They were willing to put themselves at risk in order to show that there are good mages out ther tha tdo caer about the state of the world and want to help make it better for both mages and non mages. Dorian even says this when you talk with him he's inspired by what you're trying t odo in Thedas that when he becomes a magister he tries to use that authority to tr yt omake Tevinter better. He knows it'll likely take time but it's time he's willing to spend because he knows it's for the greater good.
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Post by dayze on Oct 17, 2022 14:22:56 GMT
Thinking about it; kind of goes back to the Seeker thing I mentioned earlier.
The biggest problem with Templar's isn't just their corruption, it's that they are being tasked with aspects outside of their job description.
The Seeker's should be management, the Inquisitor's should be more focused on the detective/legal aspects of it and the Templars should be the Swat/Street Cops.
It's like taking a Cop and forcing them to be Judge, Jury, Executioner, CSI.....etc.....not only are you giving them way too much to do your giving them things they literally aren't capable of doing, at least not correctly or effectively.
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Post by xerrai on Oct 23, 2022 15:52:30 GMT
Thinking about it; kind of goes back to the Seeker thing I mentioned earlier. The biggest problem with Templar's isn't just their corruption, it's that they are being tasked with aspects outside of their job description. The Seeker's should be management, the Inquisitor's should be more focused on the detective/legal aspects of it and the Templars should be the Swat/Street Cops. It's like taking a Cop and forcing them to be Judge, Jury, Executioner, CSI.....etc.....not only are you giving them way too much to do your giving them things they literally aren't capable of doing, at least not correctly or effectively. I'm not sure the Seekers on their own are actually capable of overseeing every Circle tower and every templar regiment --even if they only focused on high level crimes. Which would explain part of why they were so heavily intertwined with templars in terms of actually overseeing mage activities. And this is especially relevant now that the Seekers basically consist of Cassandra and a few others (lets say 10 to be generous), and it is not like Seekers are easy to replace either... While the Seekers should still be around, it might be better to just create an investigative order/department elsewhere. The easiest solution is to take a small portion of incoming templars are not give them their first lyrium draught, and instead have them focus almost entirely on investigative practices--all while still allowing them to be capable warriors on their own. It won't solve everything, particularly if the Chantry still continues the practice of primarily recruiting zealots or other Andrastian hardliners. But it will still get the ball rolling while lessening the drug and multi-job factors the current templars have to deal with. Allowing mages to be investigators as well is also an option, since they typically know about magic and how to sense it. Heck, they were even doing this internally amongst themselves to weed out potential issues (as was the case in Ferelden's tower where contraband material was intentionally left available to sus out suspicious apprentices) and thus potentially already have an investigative system in place that just needs to be formalized and refined.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 23, 2022 16:31:58 GMT
I would rather see the Seekers/Templars returned to what they were under the first Inquisition. Then they concentrated on maleficarum and demons, just as the Fade Hunters did among the Emerald Knights. By all accounts, they were very fair and even handed in dispensing justice and it was likely the nobility who objected to them most because they didn't give them special treatment because of their rank. What was also clear from JoH is that they included mages among their number. Who better to understand the dangers of uncontrolled magic than other mages? So, I do think that some sort of specialist police force is needed but that it needs to be independent of the ruling class or the Chantry. Whether that would be allowed is quite something else. The powers that be didn't seem to like having our own Inquisition keeping order, so I doubt they would look favourably on any independent organisation.
The alternative might be a group of independent mage regulators under the control of the State, similar to how things are managed in Tevinter. There their Templars are just a group of regular soldiers trained to deal with magical offences but without the lyrium addiction to complicate matters. They also have an additional group of enforcers mages, called Justicars, to deal with the really serious stuff the regular Templars cannot cope with. The problem with Tevinter is that there is a degree of corruption that limits the Templars in their duties if their investigations start to tread on important toes. If the Templars were allowed to operate without fear or favour, to the general benefit of the entirety of the population, that would be helpful.
Essentially, you do need someone policing magical offences but only to the same extent as any other crime. The presumption for any mage should be innocent until proven guilty, which on the whole is going to be easier to prove in somewhere like the south where mages are in the minority. If someone has engaged in rogue magic, the list of possible culprits shouldn't be that long and most magic leaves a signature that may narrow the field still further. Since most mages just want to be left alone, I'm pretty sure they would be only too happy to co-operate to ensure the culprit is caught and even assist if their skills allow it.
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