Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 30, 2022 18:09:27 GMT
Okay, I put together a “pre-Dreadwolf” Tevinter video. I’m expecting a lot of details and potentially retcons for Tevinter in Dreadwolf, so this is is all the lore as it stands before that. I’ll probably revisit all these topics once we get those:
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Post by NotN7 on Oct 1, 2022 2:36:45 GMT
Okay, I put together a “pre-Dreadwolf” Tevinter video. I’m expecting a lot of details and potentially retcons for Tevinter in Dreadwolf, so this is is all the lore as it stands before that. I’ll probably revisit all these topics once we get those: Well done, thank you that video it answered a few questions I had been mulling over for a while.
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Black Magic Ritual
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Oct 1, 2022 19:10:25 GMT
I wonder if the Noble Mage origin is all trying the reverse the Imperium's fortune instead of the politicking/backstabbing among the families as most players expect. I really would like to become Archon towards the end of the game though - either that or become a Magister Sideral for the lost 8th old God.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 23, 2022 15:08:24 GMT
Okay, I put together a “pre-Dreadwolf” Tevinter video. I’m expecting a lot of details and potentially retcons for Tevinter in Dreadwolf, so this is is all the lore as it stands before that. An anomaly cropped up today that I wonder if you have an answer to concerning Corypheus' memories in the Shrine of Dumat, his servant's in the Fade and the Canticle of Silence. In the Shrine one of his memories has him bemoan the fact that he and his fellow Magisters have been vilified in history and yet there isn't even a record of their names. Does he mean his original name? It seems odd he should object to this considering he told his servant he would undertake the ritual as Corypheus. However, it is true that no one would be aware of this but those connected with the ritual, who either entered the Fade with him or did not survive, except for one possibly (see below). Yet, we have the Canticle of Silence that was written by Hessarian. No doubt it was familiar to Drakon and why it was originally included in the Chant but one of the southern Divine's subsequently removed it, claiming that it was too full of political propaganda by Hessarian, rather than being sacred verse. Whilst this was some thirty years before the schism, I do wonder if Tevinter resented this decree and it was another contributing factor. Anyway, my problem is this. Where did Hessarian get his ideas from? As the Old Gods were still being worshiped in his time, I would assume the titles of the High Priests of the various gods were known to him, which is why he chose them as the villains. Yet, if Corypheus chose to take that title for himself, that would suggest that he wasn't actually the High Priest of Dumat in Minrathous itself. That would seem borne out by the fact that Hessarian actually has the acolyte journeying from the ritual site to Minrathous to warn the Archon of what was going on. This being the case, do you think the Archon of that time made a record of what the acolyte told him and that is what Hessarian used as the basis of his Canticle? Clearly, it wasn't complete fabrication because not only was there a Corypheus among the intelligent darkspawn but also an Architect. I assume that Cory must have been referencing the southern Chant if he maintains there was no record of their names because the Canticle of Silence certainly has his title, which is what he wanted to be known as from then on and suggests the acolyte was aware of this. It may not be referenced again because the writers no longer think the actions of the Magistrs Sidereal are relevant anymore but it has never been clear why they entered the Fade, since the servant's memory suggests it was intended to revive Old God worship, whereas Hessarian suggests it was to receive a reward promised by Dumat. When Cory awoke in Legacy, he certainly complained to Dumat that he had been promised a Golden City. Why he went to the city and what he expected to find could still be relevant to the Solas plot, since I think his actions do have something to do with the presence of the Blight in the world. So, do you think there may be something in the Archives in Tevinter that will answer my questions? Do you recall where Dorian's War Table mission took us to find Corypheus' real name?
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Post by catcher on Nov 23, 2022 21:44:48 GMT
An anomaly cropped up today that I wonder if you have an answer to concerning Corypheus' memories in the Shrine of Dumat, his servant's in the Fade and the Canticle of Silence. In the Shrine one of his memories has him bemoan the fact that he and his fellow Magisters have been vilified in history and yet there isn't even a record of their names. Does he mean his original name? It seems odd he should object to this considering he told his servant he would undertake the ritual as Corypheus. However, it is true that no one would be aware of this but those connected with the ritual, who either entered the Fade with him or did not survive, except for one possibly (see below). Yet, we have the Canticle of Silence that was written by Hessarian. No doubt it was familiar to Drakon and why it was originally included in the Chant but one of the southern Divine's subsequently removed it, claiming that it was too full of political propaganda by Hessarian, rather than being sacred verse. Whilst this was some thirty years before the schism, I do wonder if Tevinter resented this decree and it was another contributing factor. Anyway, my problem is this. Where did Hessarian get his ideas from? As the Old Gods were still being worshiped in his time, I would assume the titles of the High Priests of the various gods were known to him, which is why he chose them as the villains. Yet, if Corypheus chose to take that title for himself, that would suggest that he wasn't actually the High Priest of Dumat in Minrathous itself. That would seem borne out by the fact that Hessarian actually has the acolyte journeying from the ritual site to Minrathous to warn the Archon of what was going on. This being the case, do you think the Archon of that time made a record of what the acolyte told him and that is what Hessarian used as the basis of his Canticle? Clearly, it wasn't complete fabrication because not only was there a Corypheus among the intelligent darkspawn but also an Architect. I assume that Cory must have been referencing the southern Chant if he maintains there was no record of their names because the Canticle of Silence certainly has his title, which is what he wanted to be known as from then on and suggests the acolyte was aware of this. It may not be referenced again because the writers no longer think the actions of the Magistrs Sidereal are relevant anymore but it has never been clear why they entered the Fade, since the servant's memory suggests it was intended to revive Old God worship, whereas Hessarian suggests it was to receive a reward promised by Dumat. When Cory awoke in Legacy, he certainly complained to Dumat that he had been promised a Golden City. Why he went to the city and what he expected to find could still be relevant to the Solas plot, since I think his actions do have something to do with the presence of the Blight in the world. So, do you think there may be something in the Archives in Tevinter that will answer my questions? Do you recall where Dorian's War Table mission took us to find Corypheus' real name? Last part first: Dorian does get the Liberalum from the Magisterium Library in Minrathous, but there is no other hint in the two War Table missions about this topic as to where Corypheus' original family is from. We do get the strong suggestion that they somehow knew about their ancestor's link to if not existence as Corypheus, but no place name or hint is given for House Amladaris. Investigating Amladaris could be something done in DA:D. I think you may be taking Corypheus' memory too literally. Cory only wants big. That's why he took this grandiose title, demands worship from his followers, etc. He expected to return to a world literally swooning at his feet. Instead, he finds himself slandered in some fable that's become the thing of stories to frighten small children if it is thought of at all. Just because his name is there doesn't mean he's remembered the way he thought he should be remembered and that's just as bad as not being remembered at all. Just a thought on that. Thanks.
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Heimdall
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 24, 2022 2:56:58 GMT
Okay, I put together a “pre-Dreadwolf” Tevinter video. I’m expecting a lot of details and potentially retcons for Tevinter in Dreadwolf, so this is is all the lore as it stands before that. An anomaly cropped up today that I wonder if you have an answer to concerning Corypheus' memories in the Shrine of Dumat, his servant's in the Fade and the Canticle of Silence. In the Shrine one of his memories has him bemoan the fact that he and his fellow Magisters have been vilified in history and yet there isn't even a record of their names. Does he mean his original name? It seems odd he should object to this considering he told his servant he would undertake the ritual as Corypheus. However, it is true that no one would be aware of this but those connected with the ritual, who either entered the Fade with him or did not survive, except for one possibly (see below). Yet, we have the Canticle of Silence that was written by Hessarian. No doubt it was familiar to Drakon and why it was originally included in the Chant but one of the southern Divine's subsequently removed it, claiming that it was too full of political propaganda by Hessarian, rather than being sacred verse. Whilst this was some thirty years before the schism, I do wonder if Tevinter resented this decree and it was another contributing factor. Anyway, my problem is this. Where did Hessarian get his ideas from? As the Old Gods were still being worshiped in his time, I would assume the titles of the High Priests of the various gods were known to him, which is why he chose them as the villains. Yet, if Corypheus chose to take that title for himself, that would suggest that he wasn't actually the High Priest of Dumat in Minrathous itself. That would seem borne out by the fact that Hessarian actually has the acolyte journeying from the ritual site to Minrathous to warn the Archon of what was going on. This being the case, do you think the Archon of that time made a record of what the acolyte told him and that is what Hessarian used as the basis of his Canticle? Clearly, it wasn't complete fabrication because not only was there a Corypheus among the intelligent darkspawn but also an Architect. I assume that Cory must have been referencing the southern Chant if he maintains there was no record of their names because the Canticle of Silence certainly has his title, which is what he wanted to be known as from then on and suggests the acolyte was aware of this. It may not be referenced again because the writers no longer think the actions of the Magistrs Sidereal are relevant anymore but it has never been clear why they entered the Fade, since the servant's memory suggests it was intended to revive Old God worship, whereas Hessarian suggests it was to receive a reward promised by Dumat. When Cory awoke in Legacy, he certainly complained to Dumat that he had been promised a Golden City. Why he went to the city and what he expected to find could still be relevant to the Solas plot, since I think his actions do have something to do with the presence of the Blight in the world. So, do you think there may be something in the Archives in Tevinter that will answer my questions? Do you recall where Dorian's War Table mission took us to find Corypheus' real name? As catcher said, Dorian was able to find enough information to link Corypheus to House Amladaris using a tome from Minrathous (The Magisterium’s Library to be exact). The old temples were converted to Circles of Magi, so it’s possible some information survives there. I’m also not sure the principle temple of Dumat was in Minrathous. In particular, going by the story of Darinius, it seems the main temple to Dumat was in Vyrantium (Since someone from that temple was summoned when Neromenian needed a representative of Dumat). The only temple we know exists in Minrathous is the temple of Razikale (now mentioned as a circle of magi), who was the patron of the city in ancient times. If the Canticle of Silence is to be believed, the acolyte reported to the Archon directly, so it’s also possible Hessarian’s information was something passed down in the private records of the Archons. As to the discrepancy between Corypheus choosing that name and it being a well known title, I’m not aware of anything that resolves it. It doesn’t quite fit with how it’s phrased in the memories of the servant, but maybe Corypheus simply meant that he would only use the title from that point forward and forsake his family name entirely. If nobody knew the story of the Magisters Sidereal outside of rumor, it’s possible that their families were able to successfully scrub any reference to them from general knowledge during the chaos of the First Blight out of fear and shame. I suppose to the general public it would have just seemed that the High Priests vanished one day (And they were probably more concerned with the Golden City turning black) and then after some time passed the Blight began.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 24, 2022 9:16:53 GMT
If the Canticle of Silence is to be believed, the acolyte reported to the Archon directly, so it’s also possible Hessarian’s information was something passed down in the private records of the Archons. As to the discrepancy between Corypheus choosing that name and it being a well known title, I’m not aware of anything that resolves it. It doesn’t quite fit with how it’s phrased in the memories of the servant, but maybe Corypheus simply meant that he would only use the title from that point forward and forsake his family name entirely. Yes, the last part would make sense. As Catcher says, maybe it was more than his name of Corypheus had been remembered incorrectly with regard to his actions. I'd also forgotten the part about the main Temple to Dumat in ancient Neromenian being in Vyrantium. That would explain a lot in terms of location of his ritual in the past and also that the main cabal of the Venatori seem to have originated from and are still located there. However, that still doesn't explain the involvement of the priesthood of the other Old Gods. At the very least, it would have meant the high priest of Razikale leaving their post in Minrathous for an extended period. Still, I suppose they must have done so from time to time, so the Archon would not necessarily think it suspicious. Okay, so that starts to make it clearer. It also means that Hessarian's account was pretty much authentic with regard to who took part in the enterprise and why. It is just the latter part of the Canticle that is made up since the acolyte didn't witness their arrival in the Black City. I think there is a good chance we will find out more in Tevinter, either in the next comic series or actually in game. There seems a lot of secret knowledge, particularly connected with the elves, that Cory picked up from somewhere, as did Danarius when he did his experiments that resulted in Fenris. Where did he get the sarcophagus from, since I'm fairly certain he didn't construct it himself? It would seem that it was probably associated with Old God temples in the south, which in turn may have been built over old elven ruins. Nor do I think it is accidental that they placed the Old God Lusacan in the south as a patron of ancient Neromenian, along with Dumat and Toth, or that he is so closely connected in iconography with Falon-Din. I've long wondered if the depiction of Dirthamen with his hands over his mouth as god of secrets, could also be interpreted as god of silence. Whatever the case, I am convinced there is a connection between the Old Gods and the elven gods, if only through the Forgotten Ones, and that Dumat did urge Cory to head for the Black City, not because he wanted him to challenge the Maker but because he knew what he would find there. It is peculiar how all the Old Gods fell silent after that action and yet, according to the Canticle of Silence, they had all been in favour of their respective High Priest taking part in it. So, either they had all been in collusion and working towards that end, or Dumat knew it would silence them and that was all part of his plan. Thank you for your answers. I'm really hopeful we will learn more in DA:D.
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