inherit
1398
0
4,633
Absafraginlootly
"Abso-fraggin-lutely!" ~ Captain John Sheridan and Satai Delenn
1,666
September 2016
absafraginlootly
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Dec 22, 2022 0:33:24 GMT
Was watching this analysis video today by DarthShadie Lavellan and this highlighted something that had rather escaped me up to now; I suppose because I am not that fond of the Crows so not that invested in their history. Treviso is the area where the Crows originated and the city is the seat of the Valisti family, with the First Talon as the head of this family. So, if you want to make a point about who "rules Antiva", naturally you would hit their home base. The natural assumption would then be if the First Talon cannot defend their own home, what hope for everyone else? Thus, it may be no more complicated than that. The Qun made a strike that would undermine the authority of the Crows. Mind you, it makes the idea of people waiting for contracts to be issued even more puzzling. DarthShadie also suggests that perhaps the Antivan City featured in the concept art may actually be Treviso and, if the magic castle is in Antiva instead of Tevinter, perhaps the magical aura is to counter the Qun. Or, my alternative theory, it could be another reason the Qun attacked here. The valisti house currently has 3rd talon (unless that changed post eight little talons). House Dellamorte is 1st talon. They used to have 1st talon back when their founder princess Liviana joined and then rose up the ranks but at some point fell to 8th talon only to be dragged back up to 3rd by the deceased Prince Claudio by 9:40. According to the wiki anyway, i don't feel like hauling out my books to double check right now Edit: apparently Illario Dellamorte spends alot of time or lives in Treviso based on the reference in the wigmaker. So it might also be the base of first talon Caterina Dellamorte.
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Scribbles
185
0
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 22, 2022 3:17:59 GMT
The only one we know of is in Antiva City, but the devs would have decided to have a second in Treviso. Another possibility is that the Circle was moved after the resolution of the mage/Templar conflict. Maybe the one in Antiva City was too badly damaged in the fighting. Alternatively, perhaps they simply decided to change its location. I think its location was implied rather than stated absolutely, in a codex on Arcane Horrors and a conversation between Zevran and Wynne. That could be something they might choose to ignore or explain away. They have with other lore when it suited their narrative. Of course, we might find that the Qun have reached Antiva City by the time the game starts. However, in view of the emphasis on the Crows in the associated media, Treviso would make sense as being the focus of the conflict. Neither of the Codex entries actually mention it is in Antiva City. The Arcane Horror one just says it was written by a Templar in Antiva. Neither does anything about the Right of Annulment that happened in Antiva. Even the wiki page for Antiva City doesn’t list the Circle as a location in it.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
31,186
gervaise21
13,101
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 22, 2022 8:43:50 GMT
Even the wiki page for Antiva City doesn’t list the Circle as a location in it. Yes, I noticed that too when I checked the Wiki, which is where I got the information about the Arcane Horror connection. Of course, the Wiki isn't 100% reliable but on the whole, I think we were only told which nations/states had a Circle but not necessarily where they were located. As it turned out, it would seem Orlais had at least two Circles, in Montsimmard and Val Royeaux, so why wouldn't it be the same in Antiva? Now when Zevran is talking to Wynne, he mentions only one Circle in Antiva but not where it is. He said he had to visit it once on Crow business but that could be anywhere, so nothing conclusive there. The strange things is, though, that I thought originally the idea was that the Circles should be located away from major population centres, which is why the Gallows seemed such a strange location for one, particularly with its history, but I put that down to the fact that it was as much to cater for the HQ for the Templars in that region as it was to house mages. Now it would seem that the Ferelden Circle was unusual in being in a remote location if so many others seem to be attached to major cities.
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265
0
Nov 28, 2024 19:07:05 GMT
12,048
Pounce de León
Praise the Justicat!
7,945
August 2016
catastrophy
caustic_agent
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 22, 2022 12:05:41 GMT
I think last occupation was by Austria.
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Scribbles
185
0
31,578
Hanako Ikezawa
22,991
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 22, 2022 12:37:45 GMT
Even the wiki page for Antiva City doesn’t list the Circle as a location in it. Yes, I noticed that too when I checked the Wiki, which is where I got the information about the Arcane Horror connection. Of course, the Wiki isn't 100% reliable but on the whole, I think we were only told which nations/states had a Circle but not necessarily where they were located. As it turned out, it would seem Orlais had at least two Circles, in Montsimmard and Val Royeaux, so why wouldn't it be the same in Antiva? Now when Zevran is talking to Wynne, he mentions only one Circle in Antiva but not where it is. He said he had to visit it once on Crow business but that could be anywhere, so nothing conclusive there. The strange things is, though, that I thought originally the idea was that the Circles should be located away from major population centres, which is why the Gallows seemed such a strange location for one, particularly with its history, but I put that down to the fact that it was as much to cater for the HQ for the Templars in that region as it was to house mages. Now it would seem that the Ferelden Circle was unusual in being in a remote location if so many others seem to be attached to major cities. Nevarra also doesn’t have one in its capital. So it also wouldn’t be unprecedented for Antiva to follow suit since Ferelden and Nevarra would be the same. As for Kirkwall, the Free Marches having one in each of their capitals makes sense since they are city-states so like you said they are also headquarters for the Templars and Chantry in each region too. Same with Orlais since that’s where the Chantry was founded so they probably just made the first Circle be in the same location. Rivain has one in its capital merely to appease the Chantry, and with how harsh Anderfels are it’s capital might be the only place that can sustain one. Ferelden also used to have one in Deneeim but it burned down centuries ago. Overall it seems that most are in major areas simply because that makes them possible to supply and quickly respond if anything happens.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
31,186
gervaise21
13,101
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 22, 2022 13:29:12 GMT
As for Kirkwall, the Free Marches having one in each of their capitals makes sense since they are city-states so like you said they are also headquarters for the Templars and Chantry in each region too. The city states still have surrounding land that comes under their jurisdiction, so the Circle doesn't actually have to be within the city. Same with Orlais since that’s where the Chantry was founded so they probably just made the first Circle be in the same location. The codex about the history of the southern circles contradicts this idea as it suggested mages were still part of society but only allowed to perform very limited magic in the early days of the Chantry: It surprised absolutely no one when the mages of Val Royeaux, in protest, snuffed the sacred flames of the cathedral and barricaded themselves inside the choir loft. No one, that is, but Divine Ambrosia II, who was outraged and attempted to order an Exalted March upon her own cathedral. Even her most devout Templars discouraged that idea. For 21 days, the fires remained unlit while negotiations were conducted, legend tells us, by shouting back and forth from the loft.
The mages went cheerily into exile in a remote fortress outside of the capital, where they would be kept under the watchful eye of the Templars and a council of their own elder magi. Outside of normal society, and outside of the Chantry, the mages would form their own closed society, the Circle, separated for the first time in human history.Now this history does seem to be contradicted somewhat by the later history given for the formation of the Circles under the newly incorporated Inquisition, first outlined in Asunder and then confirmed in later lore books. In that the Circles were created after the Nevarran Accord, which brought the Seekers of Truth into the Chantry fold and they formed the Templar Order to oversee them. Since the Divine in the codex was Ambrosia II, I think it must refer to some later development, as there had to have been an Ambrosia I and I believe the Nevarran Accord was signed when Divine Justinia I was still divine, although I could be wrong about that. Nevarra also doesn’t have one in its capital. Nevarra is an oddity because of the Mortalitasi, whose foundation came more than a century after the formation of the Templar Order and the Circles, so I've always wondered how they allowed this. Nevarra was only a city state at this time, with a lot less power than it acquired later, so it is peculiar that a Tevinter mage was able to set up this custom, so at variance with Chantry burial practices and clearly involving contact with spirits. Personally, I think she was reviving a much older tradition from the time of the Old Gods but that still doesn't explain how the Chantry/Templars allowed it. Anyway, the main city associated with the old Chantry loyalist Circle of Magi is Cumberland, which may have been part of Orlais at one time before it became incorporated into Nevarra. The explanation for the Circle being located there is that one of the mages was the daughter of a leading figure in that city, who wanted her to continue to live in the manner to which she was accustomed, so she gifted the Sun Dome palace to the Chantry. I suppose a similar story might account for other Circles being located in cities rather than outside them.
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