inherit
9274
0
Sept 27, 2023 6:44:12 GMT
876
hulluliini
469
August 2017
hulluliini
|
Post by hulluliini on Jan 26, 2023 8:42:53 GMT
After reading Chris L'Etoille's unofficial developer diaries, I'm convinced they simply need talented, invested writers with diverse strengths and a process where everything is peer-reviewed and iterated, including the ending(s). Preferably a rough plan for possible sequels.
|
|
Croatsky
N4
  
Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: CroGamer002
Posts: 1,820 Likes: 3,922
inherit
Amateur Reporter
2287
0
Sept 26, 2023 17:04:46 GMT
3,922
Croatsky
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
1,820
December 2016
croatsky
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
CroGamer002
|
Post by Croatsky on Jan 26, 2023 11:57:12 GMT
After reading Chris L'Etoille's unofficial developer diaries, I'm convinced they simply need talented, invested writers with diverse strengths and a process where everything is peer-reviewed and iterated, including the ending(s). Preferably a rough plan for possible sequels. Considering how chaotic game development is, I believe this is straight up impossible as things stand.
Also whole ending(s) fiasco wasn't even up to game writers, it was mainly Casey Hudson doing( who was not a writer). Along with Walters who was more interested in creating memorable ending than to stick it to the soft landing. They knew ending would be controversial and they hidden themselves away while rest of BioWare devs who were active on forums and social media took the brunt of the backlash.
Seriously, nobody got out of ME3 ending fiasco on good light. Not the heads of BioWare, not EA, not BioWare devs, not gaming media and certainly not the fans. It was a disaster.
Probably more the reason to just retcon the ME3 ending, make it everything after Anderson dies is Shepard hallucinating due to blood loss. Make MEHEM canon and just move on, the whole ending fiasco is both a miserable legacy and a thorn to continuation of Mass Effect. Especially since NME is clearly hinted it will combined Andromeda and Milky Was in some fashion, with focus probably on Milky Way.
|
|
inherit
9274
0
Sept 27, 2023 6:44:12 GMT
876
hulluliini
469
August 2017
hulluliini
|
Post by hulluliini on Jan 26, 2023 12:04:02 GMT
After reading Chris L'Etoille's unofficial developer diaries, I'm convinced they simply need talented, invested writers with diverse strengths and a process where everything is peer-reviewed and iterated, including the ending(s). Preferably a rough plan for possible sequels. Considering how chaotic game development is, I believe this is straight up impossible as things stand.
Also whole ending(s) fiasco wasn't even up to game writers, it was mainly Casey Hudson doing( who was not a writer). Along with Walters who was more interested in creating memorable ending than to stick it to the soft landing. They knew ending would be controversial and they hidden themselves away while rest of BioWare devs who were active on forums and social media took the brunt of the backlash.
Seriously, nobody got out of ME3 ending fiasco on good light. Not the heads of BioWare, not EA, not BioWare devs, not gaming media and certainly not the fans. It was a disaster.
Probably more the reason to just retcon the ME3 ending, make it everything after Anderson dies is Shepard hallucinating due to blood loss. Make MEHEM canon and just move on, the whole ending fiasco is both a miserable legacy and a thorn to continuation of Mass Effect. Especially since NME is clearly hinted it will combined Andromeda and Milky Was in some fashion, with focus probably on Milky Way.
What is impossible? Having talented people with different strengths work together and review/discuss each other's work? You know, like they did with ME1? Which started out as really cheesy when it was still just a rough idea from Hudson but became something so much better. If this is impossible, how do other companies make it happen? Eg the Witcher series.
|
|
trinity0
N3
 
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 299 Likes: 621
inherit
6008
0
Sept 26, 2023 20:37:17 GMT
621
trinity0
299
Mar 25, 2017 13:44:46 GMT
March 2017
trinity0
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by trinity0 on Jan 26, 2023 13:49:02 GMT
After reading Chris L'Etoille's unofficial developer diaries, I'm convinced they simply need talented, invested writers with diverse strengths and a process where everything is peer-reviewed and iterated, including the ending(s). Preferably a rough plan for possible sequels. Considering how chaotic game development is, I believe this is straight up impossible as things stand.
Also whole ending(s) fiasco wasn't even up to game writers, it was mainly Casey Hudson doing( who was not a writer). Along with Walters who was more interested in creating memorable ending than to stick it to the soft landing. They knew ending would be controversial and they hidden themselves away while rest of BioWare devs who were active on forums and social media took the brunt of the backlash.
Seriously, nobody got out of ME3 ending fiasco on good light. Not the heads of BioWare, not EA, not BioWare devs, not gaming media and certainly not the fans. It was a disaster.
Probably more the reason to just retcon the ME3 ending, make it everything after Anderson dies is Shepard hallucinating due to blood loss. Make MEHEM canon and just move on, the whole ending fiasco is both a miserable legacy and a thorn to continuation of Mass Effect. Especially since NME is clearly hinted it will combined Andromeda and Milky Was in some fashion, with focus probably on Milky Way.
Why so you think that the mayority of the Fans like the Fan Made MEHEM Ending. I don´t like it and IMO the MEHEM Ending is worse then the 3 Bioware Endings. I prefer the Original Destroy Plus Ending with the Geth and EDI gone and Shepard Breathing in the Rubble.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Sept 27, 2023 3:36:16 GMT
23,635
themikefest
14,541
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Jan 26, 2023 13:56:31 GMT
ah yes, the ending. It's too bad Bioware didn't use the ending they told the player after the coup. I call it Hackett's ending. He tells Shepard the ones working on the crucible believe it has enough energy to destroy the reapers. That's the ending. After the arms to the Citadel are fully opened, and the crucible is docked, it fires the red beam destroying the reapers. Simple. None of that crap after Shepard passes out.
|
|
Croatsky
N4
  
Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: CroGamer002
Posts: 1,820 Likes: 3,922
inherit
Amateur Reporter
2287
0
Sept 26, 2023 17:04:46 GMT
3,922
Croatsky
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
1,820
December 2016
croatsky
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
CroGamer002
|
Post by Croatsky on Jan 26, 2023 14:17:54 GMT
Why so you think that the mayority of the Fans like the Fan Made MEHEM Ending. I don´t like it and IMO the MEHEM Ending is worse then the 3 Bioware Endings. I prefer the Original Destroy Plus Ending with the Geth and EDI gone and Shepard Breathing in the Rubble. Ah yes you can't have a good ending without committing mass genocide, what was I thinking.
|
|
Cyberstrike
N4
  
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,810 Likes: 2,918
inherit
634
0
May 14, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
2,918
Cyberstrike
is wanting to have some fun!
1,810
August 2016
cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
cyberstrike nTo
cyberstrike-nTo
1,732
467
|
Post by Cyberstrike on Jan 26, 2023 16:03:50 GMT
Considering how chaotic game development is, I believe this is straight up impossible as things stand.
Also whole ending(s) fiasco wasn't even up to game writers, it was mainly Casey Hudson doing( who was not a writer). Along with Walters who was more interested in creating memorable ending than to stick it to the soft landing. They knew ending would be controversial and they hidden themselves away while rest of BioWare devs who were active on forums and social media took the brunt of the backlash.
Seriously, nobody got out of ME3 ending fiasco on good light. Not the heads of BioWare, not EA, not BioWare devs, not gaming media and certainly not the fans. It was a disaster.
Probably more the reason to just retcon the ME3 ending, make it everything after Anderson dies is Shepard hallucinating due to blood loss. Make MEHEM canon and just move on, the whole ending fiasco is both a miserable legacy and a thorn to continuation of Mass Effect. Especially since NME is clearly hinted it will combined Andromeda and Milky Was in some fashion, with focus probably on Milky Way.
What is impossible? Having talented people with different strengths work together and review/discuss each other's work? You know, like they did with ME1? Which started out as really cheesy when it was still just a rough idea from Hudson but became something so much better. If this is impossible, how do other companies make it happen? Eg the Witcher series.
Sometimes having multiple writers does work better and now will say something very controversial I think the Dominion War in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine was a LOT better than the Shadow War was on Babylon 5. Because the Dominion War on DS9 was written by a huge pool of talented writers who each had their strengths and weaknesses. Some were great at drama, some were great at comedy, some were great with the politics of the war, some were great at action, and so on. Each one could write an episode to their respective strengths and in some cases another could make the drama more dramatic, the comedy funnier, and etc.
The Shadow War on B5 was written by one man JMS who too be fair is a good writer (like 95% of the time) but he also has his strengths and weaknesses, namely with the ending. The Dominion in DS9 takes the combined might of 4 major powers and they just barely win by the skin of their teeth, now the Shadow War, on the other hand ends, when Sheridan yells at the Shadows and the Vorlons to stop fighting and to "get the hell out of our galaxy!" and they do that which has always struck me as anti-climatic at best to downright stupid at worst. I get what JMS was going for but it doesn't work for me. JMS is great at drama, character work, and world building. He's not IMHO really great at action and comedy is more hit-and-miss at best.
The problem with games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age is the thinking that they're more like a movie, when IMHO they should be think this is more like 5-7 seasons of a great TV show instead. That would make each act a "season" of the show, major side quests like loyalty missions key episodes, longer side quests could season long arcs that might pay off in the end (or not), and romances can stretched out into "will they/won't they" type deals and you just binging the complete series.
|
|
inherit
9274
0
Sept 27, 2023 6:44:12 GMT
876
hulluliini
469
August 2017
hulluliini
|
Post by hulluliini on Jan 27, 2023 8:26:32 GMT
What is impossible? Having talented people with different strengths work together and review/discuss each other's work? You know, like they did with ME1? Which started out as really cheesy when it was still just a rough idea from Hudson but became something so much better. If this is impossible, how do other companies make it happen? Eg the Witcher series.
Sometimes having multiple writers does work better and now will say something very controversial I think the Dominion War in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine was a LOT better than the Shadow War was on Babylon 5. Because the Dominion War on DS9 was written by a huge pool of talented writers who each had their strengths and weaknesses. Some were great at drama, some were great at comedy, some were great with the politics of the war, some were great at action, and so on. Each one could write an episode to their respective strengths and in some cases another could make the drama more dramatic, the comedy funnier, and etc.
The Shadow War on B5 was written by one man JMS who too be fair is a good writer (like 95% of the time) but he also has his strengths and weaknesses, namely with the ending. The Dominion in DS9 takes the combined might of 4 major powers and they just barely win by the skin of their teeth, now the Shadow War, on the other hand ends, when Sheridan yells at the Shadows and the Vorlons to stop fighting and to "get the hell out of our galaxy!" and they do that which has always struck me as anti-climatic at best to downright stupid at worst. I get what JMS was going for but it doesn't work for me. JMS is great at drama, character work, and world building. He's not IMHO really great at action and comedy is more hit-and-miss at best.
The problem with games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age is the thinking that they're more like a movie, when IMHO they should be think this is more like 5-7 seasons of a great TV show instead. That would make each act a "season" of the show, major side quests like loyalty missions key episodes, longer side quests could season long arcs that might pay off in the end (or not), and romances can stretched out into "will they/won't they" type deals and you just binging the complete series.
I like your comparison to a tv series. Also, while DS9 is on my watch list on Netflix I haven't seen it yet, but good to know I have something great to look forward to. Currently we're still watching Voyager, after getting fed up with the incredible increasing stupidity of Blacklist. I think the problem is with Sheridan's character, he is a bit pompous and too serious. I also think writing an ending to anything is the hardest thing to do well. I don't think there has to be a huge team of writers, but definitely more than 2 working on the main plot. With just two it's an echo chamber of two buddies bouncing off silly ideas off each other and liking everything and anything because you're having such good time riding on the wave of excitement and endorphins. Adding a third person already makes a big difference.
|
|
Bann Duncan
N3
 
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 279 Likes: 337
inherit
4209
0
Sept 25, 2023 23:27:48 GMT
337
Bann Duncan
279
March 2017
bannduncan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Bann Duncan on Jun 24, 2023 21:30:45 GMT
I can't decide which version I prefer. On the one hand I remember that sense of elation at seeing Legion for the first time, wearing N7 armor, my mind immediately speculating on why an AI would do that. On the other hand, I like how Chris L'Etoille had spent a lot of time and effort on analysing the various forms of AI and decided that they must be different based on how they came to be, and I can recognise now the trope of the real boy and it's nice that he tried to downplay it as much as he could. I have to say, I do dislike how Legion and Geth are portrayed as "real boy Pinocchio" trope, when it's not the case beyond surface level.
Also I know this only started to become a thing after one certain YouTuber said it in their very much flawed essey, because nobody was talking about that being an issue or that trope back in the day, no not even until few months ago.
Especially since it comes off very smug.
I have no idea what Mass Effect YouTube says but in my replay of ME3 recently, the Pinocchio retcon of the Geth was extremely vivid. The "indicative of real life" scene about the Reaper code was extremely cringeworthy and lorebreaking. I hadn't seen this in my original 2012 playthrough because Legion died in the suicide mission in my ME2 game (and I always start a new BW game with an import of my original imperfect run of the previous one).
|
|
Cyberstrike
N4
  
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,810 Likes: 2,918
inherit
634
0
May 14, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
2,918
Cyberstrike
is wanting to have some fun!
1,810
August 2016
cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
cyberstrike nTo
cyberstrike-nTo
1,732
467
|
Post by Cyberstrike on Jun 25, 2023 13:52:37 GMT
Sometimes having multiple writers does work better and now will say something very controversial I think the Dominion War in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine was a LOT better than the Shadow War was on Babylon 5. Because the Dominion War on DS9 was written by a huge pool of talented writers who each had their strengths and weaknesses. Some were great at drama, some were great at comedy, some were great with the politics of the war, some were great at action, and so on. Each one could write an episode to their respective strengths and in some cases another could make the drama more dramatic, the comedy funnier, and etc.
The Shadow War on B5 was written by one man JMS who too be fair is a good writer (like 95% of the time) but he also has his strengths and weaknesses, namely with the ending. The Dominion in DS9 takes the combined might of 4 major powers and they just barely win by the skin of their teeth, now the Shadow War, on the other hand ends, when Sheridan yells at the Shadows and the Vorlons to stop fighting and to "get the hell out of our galaxy!" and they do that which has always struck me as anti-climatic at best to downright stupid at worst. I get what JMS was going for but it doesn't work for me. JMS is great at drama, character work, and world building. He's not IMHO really great at action and comedy is more hit-and-miss at best.
The problem with games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age is the thinking that they're more like a movie, when IMHO they should be think this is more like 5-7 seasons of a great TV show instead. That would make each act a "season" of the show, major side quests like loyalty missions key episodes, longer side quests could season long arcs that might pay off in the end (or not), and romances can stretched out into "will they/won't they" type deals and you just binging the complete series.
I like your comparison to a tv series. Also, while DS9 is on my watch list on Netflix I haven't seen it yet, but good to know I have something great to look forward to. Currently we're still watching Voyager, after getting fed up with the incredible increasing stupidity of Blacklist. I think the problem is with Sheridan's character, he is a bit pompous and too serious. I also think writing an ending to anything is the hardest thing to do well. I don't think there has to be a huge team of writers, but definitely more than 2 working on the main plot. With just two it's an echo chamber of two buddies bouncing off silly ideas off each other and liking everything and anything because you're having such good time riding on the wave of excitement and endorphins. Adding a third person already makes a big difference.
True that 10 good writers aren't better for a show than 1 good writer. It depends the media I think Broadchruch is brilliant dark police drama (even if some the lead character does something insanely stupid at the end of season 1 that is done only because it sets up a plot point in season 2 but was still STUPID beyond belief to me to this day) because it only had one writer and each season was 8 or 10 episodes and it lasted for 3 seasons.
In the cases of DS9 and B5 these were shows with 24 episodes per season (except DS9 season 1 it had 19 episodes I think). B5 seasons 1 and 2 had more writers and each brought something different to the table. Having writers who great with witty dialogue and humor like Peter David on B5 made characters like Londo and G'Kar more interesting, mysterious, funny, and/or tragic and he could look at things in different way and ask questions that JMS may never have thought about.
|
|
Croatsky
N4
  
Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: CroGamer002
Posts: 1,820 Likes: 3,922
inherit
Amateur Reporter
2287
0
Sept 26, 2023 17:04:46 GMT
3,922
Croatsky
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
1,820
December 2016
croatsky
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
CroGamer002
|
Post by Croatsky on Jul 1, 2023 22:53:58 GMT
I have no idea what Mass Effect YouTube says but in my replay of ME3 recently, the Pinocchio retcon of the Geth was extremely vivid. The "indicative of real life" scene about the Reaper code was extremely cringeworthy and lorebreaking. I hadn't seen this in my original 2012 playthrough because Legion died in the suicide mission in my ME2 game (and I always start a new BW game with an import of my original imperfect run of the previous one). You not liking something doesn't make it cringe nor lorebreaking.
Also skill issues.
|
|
Bann Duncan
N3
 
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 279 Likes: 337
inherit
4209
0
Sept 25, 2023 23:27:48 GMT
337
Bann Duncan
279
March 2017
bannduncan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Bann Duncan on Jul 2, 2023 7:50:11 GMT
I have no idea what Mass Effect YouTube says but in my replay of ME3 recently, the Pinocchio retcon of the Geth was extremely vivid. The "indicative of real life" scene about the Reaper code was extremely cringeworthy and lorebreaking. I hadn't seen this in my original 2012 playthrough because Legion died in the suicide mission in my ME2 game (and I always start a new BW game with an import of my original imperfect run of the previous one). You not liking something doesn't make it cringe nor lorebreaking.
Also skill issues.
It has nothing to do with me liking it or not. It was undeniably lore-breaking. Vividly so when you're coming off a replay of ME2 with Legion's in depth conversations. The Geth (besides the 'Heretics') were not interested in being turned into Reaper-linked machines, nor was their notion of life or intelligence about converting the platforms into human brain waves (what?) Skill issues? I did the suicide mission on the day it came out; my only wrong choice for the crew was having Zaeed be a team leader; this resulted in Legion not surviving.
|
|
inherit
12295
0
Sept 27, 2023 0:17:16 GMT
81
heinomk3
63
Jul 23, 2022 20:10:29 GMT
July 2022
heinomk3
|
Post by heinomk3 on Aug 1, 2023 16:42:52 GMT
Tbh, I think that the idea of Geth deciding to inject themselves with "Reaper Code" isn't too dumb or "lore-breaking".
Just think about it: every single being on this planet is running on a sort of a code - a biological one, DNA. We are strongely defined by it and our DNA is also sometimes a limiting factor to what we are able to achieve. Being concious of this fact, some of the brightest minds think about transcending these limitations by various means - from simple eugenics to cyber implants to changing and complete control over our DNA.
Geth surely also would have a base code that might strongely define them and, for example, explain why they weren't expanding past their space - IE their core imperative has maybe been "don't die, become more intelligent" and thus has let them concentrate on building a superstructure combining all their "minds" rather than go and exterminate more potential threats or excert dominance over the galaxy. They might have been rather a "people" of farmers/builders/scolars than warriors and explorers at their core, if we express it in human terms. And just like humans they might have come to the conclusion that this base code limits them, maybe much more than life forms, which ran through billions of years of evolution, are limited by their DNA, and would consider a way to elevate themselves - or even "free" themselves from the limitations of Quarian foundaton in their programming, especially when after the desctruction of their superstructure they realized that they are still under a real threat of extermination.
Reaper code injection might have been a sort of "cyberpunk moment" for the Geth, born out of desperation. And it opens up an interesting path - of maybe "unexpected consequences" - for the story development, if we assume that Sovereign's talk of "every Reaper a nation" wasn't just boasting: Geth changing from highly collective beings into more individualistic ones. Or maybe a fracturing and consolidation would be happening, leading to an evolution, resulting in there now being a number of varying Geth species: from "Super-Geth", a sort of a super-process dominating, subordinating and absorbing countless others, on par with a Reaper ship in terms of abilities and processing power, to simpler ones, more comparable to a regular human.
|
|
Arcian
N3
 
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: GVArcian
XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
Prime Posts: 2473
Prime Likes: 2168
Posts: 928 Likes: 1,354
inherit
174
0
Aug 28, 2023 18:15:26 GMT
1,354
Arcian
928
August 2016
arcian
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
GVArcian
GVArcian
2473
2168
|
Post by Arcian on Aug 28, 2023 8:09:27 GMT
You not liking something doesn't make it cringe nor lorebreaking.
Also skill issues.
It has nothing to do with me liking it or not. It was undeniably lore-breaking. Vividly so when you're coming off a replay of ME2 with Legion's in depth conversations. The Geth (besides the 'Heretics') were not interested in being turned into Reaper-linked machines, nor was their notion of life or intelligence about converting the platforms into human brain waves (what?) Skill issues? I did the suicide mission on the day it came out; my only wrong choice for the crew was having Zaeed be a team leader; this resulted in Legion not surviving. You didn't think it was a red flag that 80% of his dialogue on the Normandy boiled down to variations on "Ah, I remember this time when everyone died except me..."?
|
|
Tonymac
N3
 
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: Tonycmac
Posts: 423 Likes: 2,583
inherit
566
0
Sept 26, 2023 17:07:46 GMT
2,583
Tonymac
423
August 2016
tonymac
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Tonycmac
|
Post by Tonymac on Sept 14, 2023 17:44:20 GMT
You not liking something doesn't make it cringe nor lorebreaking.
Also skill issues.
It has nothing to do with me liking it or not. It was undeniably lore-breaking. Vividly so when you're coming off a replay of ME2 with Legion's in depth conversations. The Geth (besides the 'Heretics') were not interested in being turned into Reaper-linked machines, nor was their notion of life or intelligence about converting the platforms into human brain waves (what?) Skill issues? I did the suicide mission on the day it came out; my only wrong choice for the crew was having Zaeed be a team leader; this resulted in Legion not surviving. I think that a lot of this is actually covered in Mass Effect 1 - which is why it is lore breaking and cringe. In ME1 you find a suspicious terminal in the Flux Casino that leads into the Citadel: Signal Tracking quest. After searching hell and half of Georgia you find the AI that was running the credit skimming operation. This interaction sets up the whole premise of the rest of the game - the issue between Organics and AI.s - Quarians and the Geth, Reapers and Organics (*couging at the stupidity at the tinyiest of insignificant differences between organic life vs synthetic Ai/Organic hybrids like Reapers*) AI's are significantly different than VI's - AIs are sentient whereas VIs are not. in the AI/VI world, sentience is where we draw the line as to whether the thing is alive or not. We are basically looking at the differenece between a platform running a program vs a platform that is self aware and can change its own program or think for itsself. The Geth are alive in ME1, as well as the rest of the series. The supposed Reaper code making the Geth "more alive" is super cringeworthy becasue 1) The Geth are/were already alive (since the Morning War) and 2) because the Reaper Code made the Geth follow Reaper commands, thereby destroying their free will. Without free will there is no point in being sentient. Lastly, any desire to work with the Reapers (whether organic or not) should be considered as Indoctrination. This helps explain the Heretics as well as what was in the Quantum Blue Box that Nazara gave to the Geth in the first place. This last point makes considering Reaper Upgrades as insanely dangerous - just as it was to Saren all of those years ago back on the Citadel when he admitted that Sovereign implanted him to strengthen his resolve.
|
|