Post by Sandetiger on Mar 10, 2023 9:24:46 GMT
If you saw this on the Reddit, you've pretty much already seen it, but there's some additional information that might be of interest or useful, etc
I've been reading up on as much lore as I can and finding citations whenever possible for my own personal uses and on occasion for lore discussions within a discord community I frequent. One thing that caught my eye while I was reading the Mass Effect fandom wiki page for the krogan was a single throwaway line in the Krogan History section under the Rise Of The Krogan subheader, the quote of which follows:
That the krogan were given other worlds to colonise pretty much goes without saying - this is supported by in-game conversations and codex entries like the following:
There IS a piece of lore that sort of relates to this subject. If you check the ME3 codex entry on Listening Post X-19, it says:
I thought that was interesting, because the usage of "over a thousand years" is both specific and vague. Over a thousand years means that, bare minimum, there hasn't been anyone on Suen since circa 1186 CE or earlier.
This is of interest in the context of the thread because the Rachni Wars ended formally in 300 CE, which means we'd be looking at a timeline of ~1,800 years since the Rachni were eradicated from the time of ME3; but given that the Krogan Rebellion started in 700 CE and the genophage was released in 710 CE (1,470ish years before ME3), with the Rebellion formally being concluded by and large by 900 CE, that's a gap of 300 CE to ~1186 CE. It's not impossible that the krogan were on Suen, and then after the Rebellions they were driven out -- which would still put there being "no sapient life for over a thousand years". No way to confirm either way, but given there was a listening post created to monitor Suen to make damn well sure the rachni were gone, it wouldn't shock me if after the Rachni Wars there was a large krogan complement there to have regular boots on the ground to check.
Obviously, this doesn't answer conclusively, and it doesn't explain the 2008 edit by Tullis, but it's interesting nevertheless.
That said, as far as I can tell, there isn't a source for the specific claim that the krogan were given the conquered rachni worlds. This isn’t something that can be found in the game files, and it doesn’t appear to have a basis in the Mass Effect novels or comics. In fact, if you look at the meta data on the wiki page, the edit history shows that it came from an administrator named TULLIS who added it in February 2008, meaning it predated Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, and it technically predates the publication of the second Mass Effect novel. Where it specifical comes from wrt Tullis at the time of writing this post is uncertain. From talking with some of the older Wiki editors, they conveyed that the user Tullis was (and maybe still is - unclear, as they lost contact with her) an employee at BioWare during that time, but she worked in the Austin division and apparently mostly handled SWTOR. I had been wondering about the possibility of this being the case given that Chris L'Etoile was also known to frequent the Wiki and enter lore edits. The fact that this is the case means it’s theoretically possible that she may have had more access to internal documentation or lore discussions with the BioWare Edmonton team than the average layman might have, and it lends the claim a degree of credence it might not otherwise have had. Hard to say for certain at this juncture, though.
There are some significant problems with additional attempts on both sourcing the material as well as with the idea of blanket writing it off as an assumptive but non-canon inference. The main one is that much of older BioWare lore communications (defunct websites, defunct og BSN forums, defunct social media accounts, etc) are difficult if not impossible to access, and what might have been easy to find in circa 2008 may as well be lost to the aether.
So, I figured I might as well chuck this to the BSN Forums and see what you all remember in terms of this claim. I'm hoping we might be able to get to the bottom of it and maybe even crowdsource a citation lol
I've been reading up on as much lore as I can and finding citations whenever possible for my own personal uses and on occasion for lore discussions within a discord community I frequent. One thing that caught my eye while I was reading the Mass Effect fandom wiki page for the krogan was a single throwaway line in the Krogan History section under the Rise Of The Krogan subheader, the quote of which follows:
- "...and were given not only the conquered rachni worlds but other planets in Citadel space to colonise..."
That the krogan were given other worlds to colonise pretty much goes without saying - this is supported by in-game conversations and codex entries like the following:
- AVINA VI, ME1, in front of the krogan monument: “In recognition of their efforts during the Rachni Wars, the krogan were granted several new colony worlds by the Council. Over the next 400 years, the krogan species began to expand.”
- “First contact with the salarians made resurgence possible. Krogan brought to less hostile planets bred exponentially and returned to reconquer their home. They built vast underground shelters to shield themselves from surface radiation, which proved prescient during the Krogan Rebellions when many of them isolated themselves in a vain attempt to avoid the genophage.” - Primary Codex: Planets and Locations: Tuchanka: Mass Effect 2
There IS a piece of lore that sort of relates to this subject. If you check the ME3 codex entry on Listening Post X-19, it says:
- "Listening Post X-19 was built shortly after the Rachni Wars, just in case any rachni survived the annihilation of Suen. The post orbits the mass relay and is still manned and maintained, although today it largely exists as a customs checkpoint for researchers studying the rachni homeworld. Among members of the Council militaries, being assigned to the station is seen as a form of punishment or exile, considering that there have been no signs of sapient life on Suen for over a thousand years."
I thought that was interesting, because the usage of "over a thousand years" is both specific and vague. Over a thousand years means that, bare minimum, there hasn't been anyone on Suen since circa 1186 CE or earlier.
This is of interest in the context of the thread because the Rachni Wars ended formally in 300 CE, which means we'd be looking at a timeline of ~1,800 years since the Rachni were eradicated from the time of ME3; but given that the Krogan Rebellion started in 700 CE and the genophage was released in 710 CE (1,470ish years before ME3), with the Rebellion formally being concluded by and large by 900 CE, that's a gap of 300 CE to ~1186 CE. It's not impossible that the krogan were on Suen, and then after the Rebellions they were driven out -- which would still put there being "no sapient life for over a thousand years". No way to confirm either way, but given there was a listening post created to monitor Suen to make damn well sure the rachni were gone, it wouldn't shock me if after the Rachni Wars there was a large krogan complement there to have regular boots on the ground to check.
Obviously, this doesn't answer conclusively, and it doesn't explain the 2008 edit by Tullis, but it's interesting nevertheless.
That said, as far as I can tell, there isn't a source for the specific claim that the krogan were given the conquered rachni worlds. This isn’t something that can be found in the game files, and it doesn’t appear to have a basis in the Mass Effect novels or comics. In fact, if you look at the meta data on the wiki page, the edit history shows that it came from an administrator named TULLIS who added it in February 2008, meaning it predated Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, and it technically predates the publication of the second Mass Effect novel. Where it specifical comes from wrt Tullis at the time of writing this post is uncertain. From talking with some of the older Wiki editors, they conveyed that the user Tullis was (and maybe still is - unclear, as they lost contact with her) an employee at BioWare during that time, but she worked in the Austin division and apparently mostly handled SWTOR. I had been wondering about the possibility of this being the case given that Chris L'Etoile was also known to frequent the Wiki and enter lore edits. The fact that this is the case means it’s theoretically possible that she may have had more access to internal documentation or lore discussions with the BioWare Edmonton team than the average layman might have, and it lends the claim a degree of credence it might not otherwise have had. Hard to say for certain at this juncture, though.
There are some significant problems with additional attempts on both sourcing the material as well as with the idea of blanket writing it off as an assumptive but non-canon inference. The main one is that much of older BioWare lore communications (defunct websites, defunct og BSN forums, defunct social media accounts, etc) are difficult if not impossible to access, and what might have been easy to find in circa 2008 may as well be lost to the aether.
So, I figured I might as well chuck this to the BSN Forums and see what you all remember in terms of this claim. I'm hoping we might be able to get to the bottom of it and maybe even crowdsource a citation lol
